red stone
Smash Ace
ok, please help me come up with a definitive definition for mindgame.
at first, i was going to go with "anything you do in a match to win"
however, that can't apply to everything. if melee was won only by getting a single hit in, then yes, that definition would suffice. for example, when you chaingrab with a character, i don't think it is a mindgame. you are merely continuing with a series of throws. you are not tricking your opponent. however, you are conditioning them to be afraid of the grab.
which brings me to another point, do conditioning and mindgames go hand in hand? i personally think they do. say you go for the ledge 3 times after flying off, but then go over your opponent the 4th time. your opponent expected another ledge attempt but didn't get it. but then there's reverse conditioning. your opponent might have expected you to go over the 4th time and conditioned you into thinking that going over would work.
back to the "not everything is a mindgame" subject. what about other things that are the complete opposite of mindgames, such as infinite shining, tech chasing, or just continuing combos. then there's just spamming stuff like lasers or d smash. these are things that you do in matches, but they most certainly not mindgames, just techs.
some people may argue that mindgames are as simple as wavedashing back, charging in with a shield, dash dancing, double jumping, aerial stalling, and stuff like that. this is all fine and dandy, but mindgames go deeper than this i believe. i usually look for patterns.
then there are more outrageous and complicated mindgames. you don't see this very often, but at times, maybe someone will trick someone or move in a way to make their opponent suicide. then there's another kind of conditioning. i call it false stupidation. one person could fall for a certain thing the other person is doing many times, but on purpose, then at a crucial point in the match, knowing the exact counter to the tech, tricks the person into doing the now useless tech and punishes them.
not everyone thinks this deep though. sure the pros think generally, look for patterns, condition their opponents, and makes a case for each opponent, but what about impulse players that just attack everything they see in front of them. and what if they win like that? does that mean they also used mindgames?
that's why the definition, "anything you do to get a hit or grab in" may not work
ok, then there's manipulation of mental state. say you play an defensive game with lots of sheilding and spacing, then you suddenly swith to an aggressive style midway through the match. this may catch your opponent by surprise and screw up their mindset, thus eventually leading to your victory.
what if you play a high pressure game, enough to make them screw up a lot. sometimes, you can play in a way that just makes the opponent give up, which makes the rest of the matches easy for you.
what about missed mindgames, let's say you wavedash back, but still get hit. was that a failed mindgame? does that mean that everytime you get hit, you failed a mindgame?
say two people rush each other to hit each other but when both players try to hit each other, one person's hitbox gets the opponent while the other person does not. was that a successful mindgame? was it a mindgame at all?
"mindgames are everything...and nothing" wow, what a conclusion!
at first, i was going to go with "anything you do in a match to win"
however, that can't apply to everything. if melee was won only by getting a single hit in, then yes, that definition would suffice. for example, when you chaingrab with a character, i don't think it is a mindgame. you are merely continuing with a series of throws. you are not tricking your opponent. however, you are conditioning them to be afraid of the grab.
which brings me to another point, do conditioning and mindgames go hand in hand? i personally think they do. say you go for the ledge 3 times after flying off, but then go over your opponent the 4th time. your opponent expected another ledge attempt but didn't get it. but then there's reverse conditioning. your opponent might have expected you to go over the 4th time and conditioned you into thinking that going over would work.
back to the "not everything is a mindgame" subject. what about other things that are the complete opposite of mindgames, such as infinite shining, tech chasing, or just continuing combos. then there's just spamming stuff like lasers or d smash. these are things that you do in matches, but they most certainly not mindgames, just techs.
some people may argue that mindgames are as simple as wavedashing back, charging in with a shield, dash dancing, double jumping, aerial stalling, and stuff like that. this is all fine and dandy, but mindgames go deeper than this i believe. i usually look for patterns.
then there are more outrageous and complicated mindgames. you don't see this very often, but at times, maybe someone will trick someone or move in a way to make their opponent suicide. then there's another kind of conditioning. i call it false stupidation. one person could fall for a certain thing the other person is doing many times, but on purpose, then at a crucial point in the match, knowing the exact counter to the tech, tricks the person into doing the now useless tech and punishes them.
not everyone thinks this deep though. sure the pros think generally, look for patterns, condition their opponents, and makes a case for each opponent, but what about impulse players that just attack everything they see in front of them. and what if they win like that? does that mean they also used mindgames?
that's why the definition, "anything you do to get a hit or grab in" may not work
ok, then there's manipulation of mental state. say you play an defensive game with lots of sheilding and spacing, then you suddenly swith to an aggressive style midway through the match. this may catch your opponent by surprise and screw up their mindset, thus eventually leading to your victory.
what if you play a high pressure game, enough to make them screw up a lot. sometimes, you can play in a way that just makes the opponent give up, which makes the rest of the matches easy for you.
what about missed mindgames, let's say you wavedash back, but still get hit. was that a failed mindgame? does that mean that everytime you get hit, you failed a mindgame?
say two people rush each other to hit each other but when both players try to hit each other, one person's hitbox gets the opponent while the other person does not. was that a successful mindgame? was it a mindgame at all?
"mindgames are everything...and nothing" wow, what a conclusion!
Girl power, w00t!
, give me an example?
etc))
