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Meta "The Dog House" - Duck Hunt Moveset/AT Thread/Metagame Discussion

Spirst

 
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Anytime the stick is neutral, I believe is when you can pop the can.

Also guys, more on SH dair. Hitting the can with it gets a reverse can situation looks like, and since it autocancels players smarter than me can probably do all sorts of hilarity.
So I was interested in this since I'd been experimenting with attacks in relation to Can movement and it can either make the Can move as normal or reversed. What I'm trying to figure out is what triggers it exactly. I thought it would be the first vs second hit of the dair but that's not it. I think it's where on the Can you connect the hit. For example, if I trick shot in front of DH then use the dair on the edge of the can facing away from him, I usually send it forward but it shoots back. Gonna play with it more.

Edit: Actually, I think it's the 1st vs 2nd hit. 1st reverses it while 2nd gives it a normal reaction.

Edit 2: Nope. Wtf DH. Looks like my first explanation is correct.
 
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outfoxd

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Plays hell for edgeguarding.

It mus t just be where the hit lands.

Also, question. Since we can lock down shields regularly, are there any ways we can set up shields breaks? Some people freeze on a gunman and I feel like we could use that.
 
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Mr.Pikachu

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FOUND SOMETHING INTERESTING!!! http://www.twitch.tv/tourneylocator/v/3740190 around 1:46:12 I take out a can and Bowser uses fire breathe on me, but the weird ting is I INSTANTLY GOT AN FSMASH RIGHT OUT OF IT DURING MY HITSTUN. I think fsmash comes out instantly just like can which is really interesting. Can anyone test this out?
 
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Mr.Pikachu

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You have the wrong time. 1:40:10 is Ness vs Villager.
Sorry about that, fixed it now to 1:46:12. Anyways you can see the 3rd players reticles hit bowser, but I was still in his fire breathe.
 
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Spirst

 
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Weird. I'll have to look at it a few more times. It should be said though that Bowser's fire breath has little hitstun near the end of the flames unlike Charizard's fire breath. I imagine that played a part in it. As for fsmash having the reticles immediately, I can confirm that isn't true, unfortunately. The first active hitbox is on frame 12.
 

Mr.Pikachu

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Ahh crap, thought it was something new, but hey it was cool to look at. Anyways I'm gonna put the video in the video thread I did A LOT of wrong things in this match up that should've been easy peasy for duck hunt. I'm assuming I was going in too much, I was just really afraid of throwing that laggy clay pigeon only to get punished for it and the can will explode us both with that bg shield of bowser. I figure that gunman would be more of use cause Bowser either has to roll, jump or shield to avoid the gunmans damage.
 

TimpaniGamer

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I've noticed that Clay Shooting can give quite a bit of stun, enough to add an extra attack or so (usually a dash attack- I'm not sure if other attacks would work). It may be useful as a safer way to deal damage to foes with lower percentages, and as a setup for stronger attacks to ones at higher percentages. What do you guys think?
 

DunnoBro

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I've noticed that Clay Shooting can give quite a bit of stun, enough to add an extra attack or so (usually a dash attack- I'm not sure if other attacks would work). It may be useful as a safer way to deal damage to foes with lower percentages, and as a setup for stronger attacks to ones at higher percentages. What do you guys think?
I think it's basic DHD knowledge, though delaying the shots is where the real damage comes from.

After my poor showing at apex and talking to MVD, I kind of doubt DHD is very viable atm. I only lost with DHD once at apex, I chose to use my 2-week old yoshi in losers finals against a sonic and got bopped. As we know from the 6wx vs MVD match, that **** is tough.

MVD and I seem to have come to the same conclusion that with most top characters being rushdown, and in general bad matchups for DHD that he probably is not too great a character.

He mostly uses DHD to combine with little mac to feel like he still has snake in sm4sh, not because he thinks they're super good or anything. That's amazing for him to do so well like that, but not inspiring for me.

Probably switching to sheik/diddy until Boss's custom tournaments start in march.
 

outfoxd

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As a player on the bottom rungs not caring about big tournament placings yet I'll stick with him XD . You never know.
 

Arcadenik

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:( sorry to hear that DunnoBro and MVD think DHD is competitively bad.

Still, the fact that MVD was able to get to top 8 with DHD proves to me that DHD can be quite lethal in the hands of a skilled Smash player.
 

outfoxd

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something fun with the can y'all. People seem to get blown wherever the direction the can is supposed to move, I think even if it's not moving in that direction.

For example, I've been working on Bairing the can at people, and a lot of times they get hit before I can Trick shot it. They go flying towards me, and on reaction, it's been giving great setups as they fly over my head for Uairs or Bairs. something to think about.
 

outfoxd

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Anyone uncover that you can hit the can in the air without using the B button? I was messing around with it today, and found that if I kick the can up high, run under it and upsmash it, the Zapper shots bobble it left and right before it hits the ground. Confusing as heck. I'm wondering if the can can at least be affected by any Zapper based move when it's airborne, and if this means anything. I could at least see the upsmash as a really weird approach option if someone goes airborne and tries to come down on you.
 

DunnoBro

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Some recent discoveries.

After using attack stick for a while, using it with perfect pivots and other crap I've come to the conclusion I think smash is probably best for DHD.

Makes pivot smashing easier, though for some reason pivot smashing with manual controls makes DHD slide more. I think this is why it actually worked for me to space on 3ds, and never worked quite as well on Wii U. Since it was manual and I got the slide.

Speaking of slide, DHD also slides more while doing a jump canceled running upsmash. It isn't much, about a duck hunt's length difference. I think this might make it more safe on shield though, as it will often place us BEHIND their shield, thus out of shield grab/jab range. Also the first hit starts during the slide, so it doesn't seem like we're sacrificing the speed of the first hit for the back ones while jump canceling it.

I use z to jump so jump canceled upsmash is super easy. Even easier than running upsmash without c-stick.

And it seems like PPing tilts is only helpful for uptilt to benefit more off it (kills, combos) or ftilt for slightly more range. But duck hunt already has very little trouble actually hitting the opponent, doing damage... And with downsmash being such an amazing smash attack in general I think it's more worth making a kill move more viable than neutral options.
 
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outfoxd

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Some recent discoveries.

After using attack stick for a while, using it with perfect pivots and other crap I've come to the conclusion I think smash is probably best for DHD.

Makes pivot smashing easier, though for some reason pivot smashing with manual controls makes DHD slide more. I think this is why it actually worked for me to space on 3ds, and never worked quite as well on Wii U. Since it was manual and I got the slide.

Speaking of slide, DHD also slides more while doing a jump canceled running upsmash. It isn't much, about a duck hunt's length difference. I think this might make it more safe on shield though, as it will often place us BEHIND their shield, thus out of shield grab/jab range. Also the first hit starts during the slide, so it doesn't seem like we're sacrificing the speed of the first hit for the back ones while jump canceling it.

I use z to jump so jump canceled upsmash is super easy. Even easier than running upsmash without c-stick.

And it seems like PPing tilts is only helpful for uptilt to benefit more off it (kills, combos) or ftilt for slightly more range. But duck hunt already has very little trouble actually hitting the opponent, doing damage... And with downsmash being such an amazing smash attack in general I think it's more worth making a kill move more viable than neutral options.
With cstick on how do you do tilts? I just want to know so can give it a shot.
 

Octagon

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MVD and I seem to have come to the same conclusion that with most top characters being rushdown, and in general bad matchups for DHD that he probably is not too great a character.
Dunnobro, you and MVD can't quit playing as Duck Hunt. We have to keep playing as this character to face the top tier characters. If you guys keep playing and get better with Duck Hunt I know for a fact you will do better and represent Duck Hunt even more so that we can rally up more Duck Hunt users. He's such an awesome character, we can't just leave him behind. The more we come together in this forum to talk about the tips and tricks of Duck Hunt, the better chance we have of making him a top tier character, and he has the potential.
 

outfoxd

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Hey, if they got majors to win it's their prerogative to do what they gotta do. Good intentions only go do far.
 

ThatGuyYouMightKnow

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Quick writeup on an update of neutralb and sideb:

I can confirm how they work now that I've tested enough if it hasn't been said; the first initial frames of sideB obviously have a hurtbox, but also a hitbox. It can "hit" things, but so far only is able to "hit" the can. When it touches the can, the can moves in the same trajectory, speed and distance that the LAST thing that hit it would have moved it. Meaning, if you utilt the can and then touch it with sideb's initial frames, it'll shoot upward over him like it normally would. Ftilt, it moves forward. Bair, it moves backwards WITH the reversing properties. Etc.

The important part is that unlike what I thought happened when I tested, even when you shoot the can with neutralB it RETAINS the properties of what you HIT it with manually, NOT shot it. Once you hit it manually again, it'll override the last property. Shooting it does not override it.

This basically means you have two different trajectories to move the can at once, without attacking it manually.

Could be very useful in covering yourself while using sideB, knowing how damn unsafe sideb is.

Gonna make a video soon showing off some useful applications.
 
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DunnoBro

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With custom becoming more and more legal, I think I'll begin sharing my thoughts on DHD's here now too.

Zigzag actually is much deeper and more versatile than I originally gave it credit for. Mainly due to the fact you control when it will hit, and it doesn't disappear on shields.

This means it can actually sit inside an opponents shield, waiting for a shield drop, frame trap for a grab, or force a roll which you can read. In the case of the first two, they both enable combos and even kill set-ups. (Getting a grab while the can was inside the opponents shield, let's you up/downthrow and shoot the can, hitting them and letting you combo off that)

Not only that, but in the case you fail in any of these, either by way of them counter attacking, or failing to read, the can either hits them from their stationary position, or returns to you, further protecting you from being rushed down.

It's actually good at mid-range against most characters since it can be shot so soon for this reason.

However, it almost completely overshadow default gunmen due to accomplishing the same job with better results, along with other jobs too.

In my experience, mega gunmen provides the best synergy with zigzag due to the snare effect they create. Both in the neutral, and whenever pressuring an aerial enemy with zigzag, you can throw mega out.

Of course, quick gunmen is in general an amazing projectile on it's own, and does have decent synergy with zigzag, letting you shoot it with a nice, slow, lingering arc from afar immediately.

I'd say it comes down to matchup/stage which to use.

It's a much better edgeguard, able to catch air dodges, can switch between a low and high recovery edgeguard, and has less high and strong knockback, letting it actually gimp more effectively when it doesn't knock them in. (And when it does, it's usually death anyway as we can combo off it)

Speaking of combos, I'm not certain, but it seems like instead of fthrow > dash attack/fair, we can do fthrow > zigzag > upsmash/nair with proper timing.

Edit: Actually, default gunmen might be a good combo for zigzag... You need to short hop the gunmen to get a consistent and usable snare, but it seems pretty good. There's a lot more erratic and versatile movement going on than with mega or quick + zigzag.

In a lot of matchups though, mega will be needed to ensure we can even set up. And I'm also fond of the quick gunmen combos, but I think I may have overlooked defaults "best of both worlds" qualities a bit much.
Edit2: HOLY CRAP BIG STUFF

If you grab someone while zigzag is in their shield (really freaking easy) it can be a kill combo by upthrowing into zigzag can being mashed super fast.

Not only that, around mid to high percents when this won't kill, and you just want more damage... You can just mash the can and it will do up to 40%

Don't throw, just mash the can. It will break the grab and do way more damage than any combo at that percent.

(It seems to more consistently kill when upthrown into, since the blast will register on them while they're higher up.)

It seems less consistent at lower percents, however down/back/fthrow > zigzag > aerial works very reliably due to their low percent and still low knockback. On some characters, this seems like a very easy 60+% at lower percents with some luck on the position of the can in regards to their di, and their size/fall speed. Generally though it seems to do about as much as it does at higher percents by just mashing.

Due to this, I think the best set would be one focused on getting this and similar grab combos, and getting the most use of zigzag out. (to the point you always want it out)

Despite my earlier claims mega gunmen worked best with zigzag, that was under the assumption of making DHD balanced and all-encompassing. I think default gunmen with it's further grab frame trapping synergy, and ability to lock down the area zigzag doesn't cover more immediately but still with linger, and then shoot zigzag itself for a nice, slow arc is very helpful.

Rising clay also offers superb control of the zigzag can, and feels a lot more fluid when pressuring.

You can zigzag, and immediately smash toss rising clay. This will not only cover the exact trajectory zigzag did not, ending at the same place, AND THEN hitting zigzag forward at a nice, slow, lingering trajectory (perfect for edgeguarding with, also better trajectory for pressuring platforms) but if you get the hit confirm with rising clay, you can have zigzag come in and combo off of it, usually hitting them in.

Also, if this happens inside their shield, zigzag stays inside of it. Furthermore, it sets up for a similar auto combo that grabs due for zigzag if zigzag is already out.

A soft toss however, can catch a roll in or jump in from zigzag, and also let zigzag combo off it.

Even more liberating is how little the projectiles contradict.

You can shoot the can while clay is out, since rising clay can't be shot.
Rising clay generally goes way too fast, way too low/high, or just plain doesn't care when it's shot by the gunmen.
Since you control when the can detonates, and the shots do not hurt you, this means opponents hitting the can back at the gunmen will not result in an explosion. Letting the gunmen + can set-up be much safer.

Also, when edgeguarding, rising and zigzag both cover the most ground of any projectile combination, but also the most radical effect. Since if either hits, the other can too. Resulting in HUGE damage, or even death.

I just started testing this set: 3221

But it feels by far the most fluid. It's to the point I don't even notice how much damage I'm racking on the opponent at times. I've easily gotten people to 180% within the first minute.

The mash takes some getting used to, both the timing, situations, the presence of mind to capitalize on it when they fall out of the auto combo for you to combo off anyway.

A few downsides to zigzag:

The time between it's flash and explosion isn't enough to actually help protect you, you'll need to get used to when it will explode and stay away from it.

The time between it just got hit by a normal attack and can be shot again (or "hitstun") is much longer than the default, to the point hitting this can is likely a legitimate way to seal it.

Due to it's radical movement, there isn't much to camp behind. None of the customs offer as effective a wall as the default trick shot. (However, that isn't to say it doesn't provide defense, it's just it takes more of a supporting role)
 
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DunnoBro

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Also, apparently throwing into a freshish zigzag can kill at around 90-100%. But you've gotta have the mash of the gods, not just speed but timing. Maybe luck is involved.

The throw + the can's damage gets them to like 130-140% while carrying them really high up so it kills, also zigzag has much more vertical knockback on the blast. Not stronger but since it's more vertical, it kills off the top better like his.

Really not sure what keeps them in though. Bad DI, percent, fall speed, frame-specific mash, or direction/placement of the can before the combo mattering... For some reason it seems more consistent against human players than CPUs though. I'm guessing some DI is worse than no DI for this very awkward combo.

Edit: Yea, pretty sure it is. People DIing up/away like instinct would have you do after a throw gives me more time to actually mash my shots properly cause they're covering more air.
 
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Octagon

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After trying out his customs, for some reason, maybe because i'm so used to it, I play best with the traditional moveset, it just works for me I guess
 

DunnoBro

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After trying out his customs, for some reason, maybe because i'm so used to it, I play best with the traditional moveset, it just works for me I guess
I know what you mean, zigzag is really hard to get used too.

But it's to the point that players like boss, 2fast, and mik! all say zigzag might need to be banned because of how I use it.

Also, I was wrong about rising though. In matchups where you can keep up the pressure at mid/long range rising might be because because you want zigzag, but default clay actually is just a legitimately good projectile on it's own.

So I mostly use 3121 now. Only really changing the can from his default playstyle, and his recovery is about the same. I also really like how zigzag only needs one shot to get to the stage, it lets me input directional influence and recover wayyy better. It also covers the ledge better from that angle.

I'm kind of confused about whether if zigzag really is just a good projectile or a broken one I don't fully understand how to break yet. But Boss and Mik! in particular got really upset that luigi consistently got smacked while trying to downthrow me and it converted into my own combo.

So those slow combo starter throws really get shut down by zigzag. Regular quick ones though are too fast and give the invulnerability frames. (Though don't pummel!)

Mega gunmen though is also really great against "mix-up" characters like mario, luigi, yoshi, diddy, etc. Cause it disables them to mix up at all, blocking their projectiles and threatening their position.

It's really really bad against most characters like sheik, falcon, sonic, you want the gunmen as a field lock.

Mega gunmen also seems to really mess up ness, due to his fair becoming super laggy and punishable due to the multi-hits. Mik! uses those to approach and i was able to run under and get an upsmash.
 
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Spirst

 
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I know what you mean, zigzag is really hard to get used too.

But it's to the point that players like boss, 2fast, and mik! all say zigzag might need to be banned because of how I use it.

Also, I was wrong about rising though. In matchups where you can keep up the pressure at mid/long range rising might be because because you want zigzag, but default clay actually is just a legitimately good projectile on it's own.

So I mostly use 3121 now. Only really changing the can from his default playstyle, and his recovery is about the same. I also really like how zigzag only needs one shot to get to the stage, it lets me input directional influence and recover wayyy better. It also covers the ledge better from that angle.

I'm kind of confused about whether if zigzag really is just a good projectile or a broken one I don't fully understand how to break yet. But Boss and Mik! in particular got really upset that luigi consistently got smacked while trying to downthrow me and it converted into my own combo.

So those slow combo starter throws really get shut down by zigzag. Regular quick ones though are too fast and give the invulnerability frames. (Though don't pummel!)

Mega gunmen though is also really great against "mix-up" characters like mario, luigi, yoshi, diddy, etc. Cause it disables them to mix up at all, blocking their projectiles and threatening their position.

It's really really bad against most characters like sheik, falcon, sonic, you want the gunmen as a field lock.

Mega gunmen also seems to really mess up ness, due to his fair becoming super laggy and punishable due to the multi-hits. Mik! uses those to approach and i was able to run under and get an upsmash.
I'm curious, do you have any footage of good zigzag play? Transitioning from default trick shot to zigzag feels awkward at first. I can definitely see the utility of zigzag but an idea of just how good it is would be helpful.
 

DunnoBro

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I'm curious, do you have any footage of good zigzag play? Transitioning from default trick shot to zigzag feels awkward at first. I can definitely see the utility of zigzag but an idea of just how good it is would be helpful.
I'll upload stuff soon, still feels mostly janky cause I don't understand everything but I mean I still bop everyone at xanadu i play with it.. Even boss.

One thing I started to like doing is after default clay hits and you know you have nothing that will connect afterward, you can still go in, wait, and throw zigzag to punish them if they airdodge. Even if you fail you still set the stage up, also they are pretty much forced to jump over you to get upaired since they'd generally airdodge into the ground if they wait for zigzag.
 

DunnoBro

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Or you can check out my matches from jed05's custom tournament: http://www.twitch.tv/jed05/v/3851681

Will post start-times later.


Got to grands but couldn't clutch it out. Really hard to kill in wifi, I just couldn't bait air dodges or time the shots of zigzag right at all. Couldn't even begin to do the throw combos. You pretty much have to buffer everything and mix-up chars like duck hunt don't work well like that at all.

Surprised I did so well without utilizing any of the finer mix-up options zigzag can do. I just camped behind mega and spammed zigzag pretty much... I generally prefer the default gunmen + zigzag since they enable kill combos and high damage strings, but i simply wasn't familiar enough to use them online.

Hopefully I get more used to playing online so i can practice it more... Though I'll probably just use more ganon on wifi since he's the ideal wifi warrior. I even got the 0-death set-up in grands though I messed it up.

Edit: One thing I'm thinking of doing, is switching between default clay and clay break between sets to throw opponents off. It just seems less effective as the match goes on, but the moves are very similar in usage.

I really like default clay + mega gunmen though. It's nice control, especially with zigzag. I've gotta learn to link my other projectiles with zigzag better. Also, setting up mega while high above the stage. One thing I want to start doing, is when they're too far to frame trap with zigzag, to bring out a gunmen instead of shooting the can on their shield. Either default or mega, not quick.
 
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Puppyfaic

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So, Duck Hunt has a sort of loop that works from around 0% to 40%. If you can condition your opponent to air dodge out of down throw, you can punish with a Side B, and that can combo into a dash grab, in which you can down throw again, bait the dodge, side B, grab, etc.
 

DunnoBro

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Okay so after actually finally being able to use them in tournament to success, I'll go into detail about how I use the reverse shots:

Trick Shot > Sourspot Dash attack: When trying to continue pressure on an aerial opponent, trick shot in the direction so just shooting can pressure them, and wait to see if they dedicate to that direction, if not a dash attack at this distance will sourspot to let you catch them from behind too.

I also really do recommend getting used to the spacing/timing to sourspot it in general, as even with a nearly dead can it gives it a superb distance, trajectory, and effect. Letting you quickly and efficiently make use of a can going towards the ledge. Much better than a pivot ftilt.

Trick Shot > Single Shot > Sourspot(?) Dash attack: If you know they have to dedicate (like if they're recovering high) Timing this right will send it forward like a regular dash attack, but when you shoot it, it will go in. Making it pretty impossible to avoid since it will catch air dodges.

Trick Shot > Bair: If the opponent isn't approaching, and the can is already out, send one of these their way, but shoot it to cancel the momentum and bring it back towards you if you think it'll hit their shield. It creates a snare and solidifies your position, or hits them in for a combo.

Also a good edge/ledgeguard and general launching option.

@Custom DHD:

A little mad I can't use my ideal set at s@x, they all use his default recovery and default gunmen is never with zigzag. Zigzag might be legit good enough for me to win though lol People sayin it's more broke than kong cyclone/dropkick now

I mean it's not like I been usin this character as long as humanly possible and his stuff just works better now or anything. Nah it's broke

I like how diddy has such a hard time getting his banana out cause if I see him pull it out in neutral, I can just kick my can from across the stage and make it hell for him to use or even get it. And Mega gunmen will eat that **** like candy.

Mega also messes sonic up good, it's wider so the slowdown on hit after spindash is more relevant (he can't just jump and still hit you) and it also forces approaches without using the spindash, so you can just spam jab if you expect a dash grab/attack.

I prefer default/quick against more ground/short hop based chars tho
 
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oogamania

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Just went in the lab and it takes eight jabs to make the can detonate. That can goes super far after the 8th hit with a dash attack, however I've been using a different tactic to fool my opponents by doing this; dash into can, press B, and the can quickly drops on the head of my opponent because it causes them to either look at the can or shield. If I see that, I grab 'em.
 

ThatGuyYouMightKnow

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The default upB sucks compared to biting upB imo

They both go nearly the same distance due to the last bit of height he gets during biting upB + the duck apparently has a ledgegrab box, so it's nearly the same height, plus you get a CHANCE at hitting them out of gimps, and an upB out of shield that starts up really fast.

Any DHD should know by now can never really saves you while recovering unless they brain fart.
 
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DunnoBro

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Yea, snag should be on essentially every set imo. The novelty of being able to go under smashville/lylat is helpful at times with default, though. The lylat ledge can actually screw up snag pretty good.

It also has a fairly good set knockback, making it so if you catch someone on the smashville platform with it, you can carry them to the blastzone, kill them, and make it back. Similarly with T&C. It doesn't do much knockback/damage but it may be a valid airdodge punish/chase with zigzag and mega gunmen set up below to secure your landing if you fail.

That's some gimmicky niche **** as things are now, but something to think about it. Though I legit did get a kill by upbing OOS and shooting zigzag up to catch where I spit them. It's some funny ****.
 

DunnoBro

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Zigzag seems far more reliable while in rage... The set knockback seems to more pleasingly align with a low % enemy to keep them in the combo.

Zigzag honestly feels kind of like it was designed to be sort of a balanced wobble. Sets up for grabs, and ridic looping grab combos that are extremely difficult to pull off but very rewarding.
 

Astronut

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So most of you know that hitting B while the control stick is in neutral will shoot the can. However, there is a way to walk and shoot the can at the same time. If you tilt the control stick very slightly (less than half of its full distance), DH will initiate a slow walk and you can keep shooting the can. This way you can keep the can hovering above your head while tapping B.

Another method is to fox-trot in one direction, and every time your stick resets to neutral, hit B. I'm just trying to compile a list of methods of approaching your opponent while having options covered by the can.
 

DunnoBro

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Hmm, snag seems to have some real potential as a gimp tool... When they fall out of it (controllable by turning away from them after start-up, and if they don't fall out, they can be stage spiked) it has a decent amount of hitstun and seems to function similarly to luigi's downB for gimps.

It seems to have good priority, too. It's mostly been janky stuff so far, but I think it could be a nice extra hitbox to throw out with zigzag.

Also, grounded b-reversing zigzag on an opponent dashing towards you is amazing. It either hits them, locks them in shield for a grab, or forces a roll/reset to neutral while having set-up zigzag.

I'm having trouble finding times I prefer default now... Zigzag is just such consistent and potent pressure. It's really hard to use, though. Also, finding out the auto-combo is pretty inconsistent unless they're at low-mid percent... Can go higher if you're in rage, but a mid-high to kill percents, it's better to try to get the can to combo into you.

Get used to the hit-confirm for when they go in, because the hitstun is just barely long enough to combo. enemies hit while usually need to be SH Naired, uair they will fall out a lot it seems like. I reflexively go for upair a lot, but the angle they go in seems really bad unless it hit them high around kill percents.
 

DunnoBro

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One thing to get used to is when you frame trap air dodges with zigzag and connect with upair, you can shoot zigzag straight back up to continue the combo.

It kills and does heavy damage. Isn't too hard due to the lingering hits of upair, either. Also when people get hit into you at lower percents, sh/fh nair is usually better than upair. Meatier and lingering, only if they are sent above you should upair be used imo.
 
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DunnoBro

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How does Duck Hunt do in doubles?
Ass with default. His set-ups just don't work. They're about as likely to hurt your teammate than help you both.

Customs make him pretty godlike though, zigzag having a controlled shot ensures you won't hit your teammate. it also hits at really good angles for team combos. mega gunmen also help projectile-less teammates cope, and quick enables more strings. Default unfortunately just dies too often to use.

Speaking of zigzag, while the auto-combo is fun, it only seems to work at mid percents. (lower if you're in rage) So for low and killing percents, I've gotten irritated when they aren't hit inward for combos. I've gotten in the habit of just mashing for the full combo, hoping it will kill... But it happens very rarely on normal sized characters.

Now I'm getting in the habit of mashing 2 shots per hit attempt. It seems preferential nearly 90% of the time.

This either still hits them in for a combo, or hit confirms for the auto-combo to the point you can wait before mashing.

It doesn't seem to hit inward less or much less often. Testing showed single shot hit inward 5/10 times, double hit in 4/10.

Then after that, the double shot becomes a frame-trap if it didn't hit them inward. As the can quickly turned around to chase their outward trajectory, you just let it drop to punish a landing/low recovery, or mash to punish a jump. (it will turn into the explosion at this point from a freshly kicked can)

But that's not all, if just kicked out and it hits an opponents shield this way, it will often multi-hit the shield (sometimes poking) and then after you realize you failed, you can shoot once more to return the can directly in front of DHD to protect from an approach out of shield.

It's at this point I'd recommend making a gunmen. Default to approach or mega to solidify a camping position.

Default will take just long enough to shoot the can, and the can will explode in about 1 second after the gunmen fire.

TL;DR: If you use zigzag, every time you try to hit someone, mash special twice unless it's an auto-combo percentage.
 
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