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The end-all argument for wavedashing in Brawl

H

Hyperion

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
30
OK, I see too many topics saying that wavedashing shouldn't be in Brawl because it's a bug, it gives people an unfair advantage over those who don't know about it, or that it's too hard to do.

Here's what Nintendo has to do:

1. Put wavedashing in the game intentionally. This means it's not a bug.

2. Tell you how to wavedash in the instruction manual and video. Now, no one has an unfair advantage.

3. As for the last point, if you want a game that anyone who picks it up that day has a 50/50 chance of winning, play rock paper scissors. I'd rather actually have a feeling of accomplishment from winning a game.

Simple, eh?
 
F

Falling Whistness

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
196
This definitely deserved to be a new thread. We haven't had a dozen other threads just like this.

/sarcasm
 
T

Takalth

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 1, 2006
Messages
597
Talendime said:
What is wavedashing?
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Depends on who you talk to. Competitive players define it thus:

"Air dodging into the ground at an angle immediately after jumping. This creates a quick sliding effect that can be useful for most characters when used right."

Many other people, however, define it like this:

"Wavedashing is a ridiculously cheap move that represents the only reason why I am not better than the pro players. Wavedashing makes every character invincible, faster than Fox, and completely unbeatable by anything except another wavedasher."

For actual useful information on wavedashing, go into the melee section of Smashboards and look into advanced techniques.
 
S

Shine-Fu

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Messages
45
Takalth said:
Many other people, however, define it like this:

"Wavedashing is a ridiculously cheap move that represents the only reason why I am not better than the pro players. Wavedashing makes every character invincible, faster than Fox, and completely unbeatable by anything except another wavedasher."

For actual useful information on wavedashing, go into the melee section of Smashboards and look into advanced techniques.
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I always find people who say this aren't very good at the game (bear in mind I know full well that you are just making a sarcastic comment, but for now lets call our 'imaginary player who defines wavedashing like this' Tom.)

Tom will complain about how this makes it impossible for him to win, how he doesn't want to play with exploits, etc.

Funny thing is, despite my name, I am a peach main. And I don't wavedash with my peach. And I still beat players who use MARTH of all characters who fully abuse wavedashing.*

Wavedashing gives players another way to get better. Could my game improve if I learned to perfectly wavedash with peach? Certainly it wouldn't hurt. But I haven't yet, and I still can beat the best we have to offer in people who can, and do.

* Just to say, just because I don't wave dash with peach doesn't mean i don't ground float, or float cancel, etc.
 
D

Dragonboy2k4

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
723
Location
Location: 1vs1 no items online at this very moment
Team Giza said:
Only Dudley can wavedash in Brawl.
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"Gutter trash.." :laugh: That game also has some broke **** in it.

@Shine-Fu:Try doing that with Mario,or DK without a D+A :) Peach is one of those characters that dont need an extra technique due to her floating.

And expert players need to remember the fact that players that have "lesser skilled potiental"as experts say,dont have that kind of quality time/hours to spend on a game just to learn hidden mechanics in order to survive,especially those that have flexable schedules.And also take note on how many people are casual players and how many are tournments ones? Cant really compare can ya?Too many causals complain on the same thing,and in some cases,they have a reason too due so.

There are way more thing important things than videogames in their words,and they cant have that free roam space like others.Thats not to say that they cant try to work things out but hell,for instance,try going to college,having a gf,and a high paying job for example,then you can see what Iam talking about.Its kinda like the same thing when many believes in tiers to the ones that dont,"MAJORITY RULES,AND IF YOU DONT LIKE IT GTFO!!".Kinda Ironic anit it? :chuckle:

Thats why your seeing Brawl being made "a bit easier to handle",quoted from Sakurai.He knows the success of the Wii is all due to how excessable/easy it is to a wide world audience to pick up on and learn at a faster rate,and at the same time,pleasing the hardcore,thats the only difference this time around.And if you dont think the same thing is gonna be applied to a "pure" sequel of a #1 hit seller on the GC,you guys are on some serious drugs.. :)
 
MookieRah

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
5,384
Location
Umeå, Sweden
And expert players need to remember the fact that players that have "lesser skilled potiental"as experts say,dont have that kind of quality time/hours to spend on a game just to learn hidden mechanics in order to survive,especially those that have flexable schedules.
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There are pros that probably have less free time than you do. Your assumption is that everyone good at the game has no life or spends too much time on this game. It really doesn't take that much time to pick this stuff up.

And also take note on how many people are casual players and how many are tournments ones? Cant really compare can ya?Too many causals complain on the same thing,and in some cases,they have a reason too due so.
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So I take it that EVERY single casual player has complained about the advanced techniques? Not really. Most casual players still don't know anything about them, and the ones that do either learn it or choose not to. Advanced techniques doesn't make the game less fun for casual players, because most casual players will never learn them. The only reason "casual" players want them removed is because they have been schooled by someone who actually does know them, and they want to get rid of it out of spite.

The argument that high level play ruins the game for casual players is quite possibly the most irritating, selfish, and illogical argument presented on this site. It's not like people refused to tell you how to do these things, it's not like you are not able to learn it, and "ironically" it doesn't take much time to learn it. People who say this don't realize that if their wishes became true then brawl would be an INCREDIBLY shallow game.

If you feel slighted for losing to someone better than you, then get better. Until then, don't try to make an argument for the game to be a piece of crap just cause you can't handle the fact that many people are better than you. And please, stop using the "I got a life" excuse. Are you intentionally stating to everyone here that you are better than us? You assume WAY too much with that kind of ****. What kind of bull**** is that?
 
OnyxVulpine

OnyxVulpine

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
2,920
Location
Hawaii
*Opens mouth*
...
....
MookieRah said:
There are pros that probably have less free time than you do. Your assumption is that everyone good at the game has no life or spends too much time on this game. It really doesn't take that much time to pick this stuff up.
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I have no life and have lots of free time.. Yet I'm a scrub :p I approve of Mookie.

So I take it that EVERY single casual player has complained about the advanced techniques? Not really. Most casual players still don't know anything about them, and the ones that do either learn it or choose not to. Advanced techniques doesn't make the game less fun for casual players, because most casual players will never learn them. The only reason "casual" players want them removed is because they have been schooled by someone who actually does know them, and they want to get rid of it out of spite.
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I call myself a casual player for Smash... Every single technique that there is.. I basically want to wrap my fingers around it and use it for myself... I'm still not experience with this game but once I learned of all the advanced techniques there are. It intrigued me and made me want to learn it. Another approve for Mookie.

The argument that high level play ruins the game for casual players is quite possibly the most irritating, selfish, and illogical argument presented on this site. It's not like people refused to tell you how to do these things, it's not like you are not able to learn it, and "ironically" it doesn't take much time to learn it. People who say this don't realize that if their wishes became true then brawl would be an INCREDIBLY shallow game.
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I learn the game for how it is and how it is played.. Not much else I can say about that.. *sigh* :bigthumbu

If you feel slighted for losing to someone better than you, then get better. Until then, don't try to make an argument for the game to be a piece of crap just cause you can't handle the fact that many people are better than you. And please, stop using the "I got a life" excuse. Are you intentionally stating to everyone here that you are better than us? You assume WAY too much with that kind of ****. What kind of bull**** is that?
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If people are better than you, that means they're better than you and they have a high chance of winning against you. I used to be a semi-competitive player with Counter-Strike and yes I did get angry PLENTY of times from getting killed by Awpers (Snipers with basically a one hit kill rifle for you none players) but over time I learned patterns and eventually could get within range to take em out with my weapons.

If people use cheap tactics, learn a way to abuse it and turn it around against them.

.. Man I love when MookieRah posts, its like pure awesomeness.
 
B

Baamage

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
93
Talendime said:
And you couldn't have even mentioned what it was for me..
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I'm really hoping that you're joking. A smash child that doesn't wavedash?

It's an airdodge into the ground, and if you do it diagonally, you'll slide. But you'll have to do it before you get too high into the air or else it'll look choppy and you won't slide far.


Woot, people are learning that wavedashing is in fact hilarious!
 
L

lollerskater

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
53
Regardless of whether or not wavedashing is in Brawl, it will still be a much deeper and more skill-based game than Melee was. Just consider the leap from the original smash bros to melee; a single advanced technique in the original wouldn't change the fact that Melee was the overall deeper game.

With that said, I think wavedashing shouldn't have the same presence in Brawl as it does in Melee. What I mean is that similar, but INTENDED techniques should be added that would make wavedashing obsolete, or it should just be removed altogether, or it should be modified so that it's easier to do/doesn't give some characters advantages they weren't meant to have.

The problem with wavedashing is that players have to do a really awkward button combination in order pull it off successfully. The game should be more about who can make better use of advanced techniques rather than who can actually DO them.
 
P

psicicle

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
618
Wavedashing takes 5-10 minutes a day of practice for a week or so to do it consistently. THe game is not about who can do the techs at a semi-high level.

Intentions don't really matter. Even if the game never intended you to (hypothetically) use the A button, it would probably more fun to use it anyway. Also, unless the devs say so, you don't know their intentions.

Also, be careful about throwing around words like "will", we have no way of knowing whether brawl will be deeper than melee or not.
 
S

SiD

Smash Master
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
3,053
Location
Sacramento, CA
If you want a game that's the same as melee, than just play melee. We don't need everything to return for Brawl, because it's a different game, and as such should play differently. Otherwise, why cough up the $50.
 
Team Giza

Team Giza

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
1,119
Location
San Diego, CA
More proof wavedash will be in brawl

I think this is the end all proof that it is gonna be there. I don't even think those close minded scrubs can say that it isn't gonna be there anymore.
 
P

PrinnyFlute

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 20, 2007
Messages
331
I'd have to say -- assuming every player who wants wave dashing out is just "jealous and bitter" is just as whiny and juvenile as a 'casual' player assuming every tourney player wants it back in so they can play Fox v Falco matches on the new Final Destination sans items. As cute as this whole 'Casual playing peons, playing with items on and the controller upside down like complete jackanapes, only wish wavedash to be gone due to their foolish lack of skill!' attitude is, I don't think any of you 'pro' players (who keep responding this way,) are exactly winning any intellect points by giving this idiotic kneejerk reaction.

It's great that you want it back, and maybe we'll see it back. To be honest: I'm indifferent. I do believe Sakurai didn't mean for wavedashing (or any advanced tech, for that matter,) to change the entire face of 'pro' matches the way they do. But how he responds to that, well, I want to see. He could implement these things more completely. He could make wave dashing much simpler. If it was purposeful in the first place, he could keep it as is -- if it was truly an exploit, he could turn it into a happy accident and actually make it a staple of the game, iron out the kinks, and really push it towards being more readily accessible.

IF it comes back, it will more than likely change. Brawl's going to be a different game, one way or the other. If it changes so much it's as easy to do as rolling?

Any case. People got the right to play how they want. Unlike some people, I'm not gonna walk into a tourney techniques thread and start telling y'all to PLAY WITH ITEMS UR SO LAME. So, whatever your reasons, please, cut the crap about how you're the ones playing the game the right way, the way that takes the most REAL SKILLZ.

And cut the crap about how the game is 'so devolved and base' without advanced techs. Players who have never been exposed to 'adv techs' (AKA the thousands of folks out there who still play regularly but have never bothered to visit any of these forums or anything,) with an equal amount of time spent in practice are not 'less skilled' than wave-dashing, SHFFLing folks with the same training-hours under their belt: they just play the freaking game differently.

Go ahead, somebody reply about how "advanced techniques" are inherently more skilled period and make the game TEN TIMES THE HARDCORE so I have to come back and explain this ****.

Do it.
 
Ogre_Deity_Link

Ogre_Deity_Link

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
1,445
Location
Central New York
PrinnyFlute said:
I'd have to say -- assuming every player who wants wave dashing out is just "jealous and bitter" is just as whiny and juvenile as a 'casual' player assuming every tourney player wants it back in so they can play Fox v Falco matches on the new Final Destination sans items. As cute as this whole 'Casual playing peons, playing with items on and the controller upside down like complete jackanapes, only wish wavedash to be gone due to their foolish lack of skill!' attitude is, I don't think any of you 'pro' players (who keep responding this way,) are exactly winning any intellect points by giving this idiotic kneejerk reaction.

It's great that you want it back, and maybe we'll see it back. To be honest: I'm indifferent. I do believe Sakurai didn't mean for wavedashing (or any advanced tech, for that matter,) to change the entire face of 'pro' matches the way they do. But how he responds to that, well, I want to see. He could implement these things more completely. He could make wave dashing much simpler. If it was purposeful in the first place, he could keep it as is -- if it was truly an exploit, he could turn it into a happy accident and actually make it a staple of the game, iron out the kinks, and really push it towards being more readily accessible.

IF it comes back, it will more than likely change. Brawl's going to be a different game, one way or the other. If it changes so much it's as easy to do as rolling?

Any case. People got the right to play how they want. Unlike some people, I'm not gonna walk into a tourney techniques thread and start telling y'all to PLAY WITH ITEMS UR SO LAME. So, whatever your reasons, please, cut the crap about how you're the ones playing the game the right way, the way that takes the most REAL SKILLZ.

And cut the crap about how the game is 'so devolved and base' without advanced techs. Players who have never been exposed to 'adv techs' (AKA the thousands of folks out there who still play regularly but have never bothered to visit any of these forums or anything,) with an equal amount of time spent in practice are not 'less skilled' than wave-dashing, SHFFLing folks with the same training-hours under their belt: they just play the freaking game differently.

Go ahead, somebody reply about how "advanced techniques" are inherently more skilled period and make the game TEN TIMES THE HARDCORE so I have to come back and explain this ****.

Do it.
Click to expand...
CAN'T...STOP...LAUGHING!!
:chuckle::chuckle::chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:
 
Y

Yellow Mage

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
369
PrinnyFlute said:
I'd have to say -- assuming every player who wants wave dashing out is just "jealous and bitter" is just as whiny and juvenile as a 'casual' player assuming every tourney player wants it back in so they can play Fox v Falco matches on the new Final Destination sans items. As cute as this whole 'Casual playing peons, playing with items on and the controller upside down like complete jackanapes, only wish wavedash to be gone due to their foolish lack of skill!' attitude is, I don't think any of you 'pro' players (who keep responding this way,) are exactly winning any intellect points by giving this idiotic kneejerk reaction.

It's great that you want it back, and maybe we'll see it back. To be honest: I'm indifferent. I do believe Sakurai didn't mean for wavedashing (or any advanced tech, for that matter,) to change the entire face of 'pro' matches the way they do. But how he responds to that, well, I want to see. He could implement these things more completely. He could make wave dashing much simpler. If it was purposeful in the first place, he could keep it as is -- if it was truly an exploit, he could turn it into a happy accident and actually make it a staple of the game, iron out the kinks, and really push it towards being more readily accessible.

IF it comes back, it will more than likely change. Brawl's going to be a different game, one way or the other. If it changes so much it's as easy to do as rolling?

Any case. People got the right to play how they want. Unlike some people, I'm not gonna walk into a tourney techniques thread and start telling y'all to PLAY WITH ITEMS UR SO LAME. So, whatever your reasons, please, cut the crap about how you're the ones playing the game the right way, the way that takes the most REAL SKILLZ.

And cut the crap about how the game is 'so devolved and base' without advanced techs. Players who have never been exposed to 'adv techs' (AKA the thousands of folks out there who still play regularly but have never bothered to visit any of these forums or anything,) with an equal amount of time spent in practice are not 'less skilled' than wave-dashing, SHFFLing folks with the same training-hours under their belt: they just play the freaking game differently.

Go ahead, somebody reply about how "advanced techniques" are inherently more skilled period and make the game TEN TIMES THE HARDCORE so I have to come back and explain this ****.

Do it.
Click to expand...
Dude, you freaking win the Internets.

If I could put that entire thing in my sig, I would, especially the part I bolded: that particular part is made of all the win in the univarse (sic).
 
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