Well I'm first going to explain who I am. A "casual" gamer who has played in decent sized Smash Tournes (Justin Wong even played in this one: Season Beatings at Columbus Ohio) and a "pro" gamer for Tekken.
I also just recently ran a Brawl Tournament that had the "melee" style rule set and a "casual" FFA rule set that helped to prevent camping/ganging up on people.
At:
http://allisbrawl.com/ttournament.aspx?id=564
This tourne had Overswarm winning the "melee" one and came in 5th for the "casual" one. The group of people I normally play with placed in the top 4. (Because we are use to doing FFAs with all items/stages due to having lots of people wanted to play and want items on, Rotation Mode for the win!)
Somebody uses rotation mode? WTF lol. Nothing wrong with that. It's just the first time I've ever heard of it since the dojo announcement.
And um... ffa tourneys will never be taken seriously lol. I beat a random scrub who won a free for all tourney that hugs (or was it wes?) and direvulcan entered at MAGfest. I can safely say I'm nowhere near their level. It was a melee tournament, but nothing has changed about the game to affect the basic attributes of ffa, ganging up against the better player and the random craziness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44i-EM2thqo (Real Men Use Items)
I will admit the Star Rod spawn was complete luck (at 0:15) and Marth could have been thrown into the Mine anyway.
But the other things could have avoided.
The Mine can be detonated as Marth and Roy (Ike, Peach, Squirtle and Wario [not 100% sure] in Brawl as well) without taking damage. (Short hop to D-B onto it, its hard to do but so is comboing with Wavedashing). You prolly could have Wavedashed to Shield into it as well. This should have been done once Marth realized that he trapped himself.
The mine can also be exploded with pk fire but that's not the point. The player was still in hitstun after being hit by the capsule that spawned on top of them after they were being thrown. Honestly, does nobody see the capsule >_>
The Star Rod throw could have easily (easy for the skilled) been dodged: Marth had time to fast fall to do an Up-B, air dodge or do a well timed D-B instead of doing a f-a (or whatever that was, I don't know my Marth too well. Maybe he was trying to catch the rod and misread his opponent)
Point is, it wasn't pure bull and could have been avoided if the player had more experience with the items. He had plenty of time to do different things and probably knows what to do next time.
The guy was rewarded with one of the most powerful projectiles in the game after he knocked off his opponent completely randomly. The guy probably didn't even know the star rod spawned until it hit him because he was trying to recover. As he probably wasn't expecting it at all then he probably wouldn't have thought to do what was best in his situation lol. Besides, so what if he made it back to the stage. After he did any option, the opponent could just punish him and throw the item at him. The only thing he could have done was catch the item as it as being thrown at him. This is obviously very hard since even though peach's turnips the link's bombs act the same way, they are still viable projectiles.
He wasn't expecting it at all, and even if he made it back to the stage, he would've been screwed anyways. It would've knocked him off the ledge and sheik could've just edgeguarded him (sheik is good at doing that vs. Marth).
Also the Marth player took a risk for attacking the crate, that could have exploded. But that is the whole risk with capsules and crates anyway. If you want to risk getting more items at one point, then be aware of how it can back fire before doing it.
The Marth player spaced himself so the explosion wouldn't it. The explosion has a surprisingly small hitbox.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VBTJe-nXyY
That was a nice item combo at 3:35. The hot head is like a pokeball, who ever launches the item is the owner (so reflected items are then owned by the person who did the reflecting). Definitely applies to Hot-Heads and pokeballs.
The items also get a big damage boast when reflected: Pit's forward B adds even more damage because the hothead is being hit by the F-B afterwards but has that "Reflect"property still (glitch) thus breaking the shield and killing the guy instantly when he used the Shield.
Everybody knows what happened. And plz don't tell me that was a combo. Both players weren't even expecting it.
Regardless, the player who was winning before getting screwed still won the game because he was an overall better player. The player also wouldn't have gone for the reflect if he knew that it wouldn't happen.
Forward lost the game....
So if people can spend hours training for a no-items tourne, then why not an all-items on also? (My view of Item fairness will be explain in another post)
They could discover all sorts of fun tricks/glitches.
After all that is how Wavedashing was discovered (Please correct me if I'm wrong on that)
Nobody wants to play with items though. Wavedashing was first discovered very soon after the game was released. It was re-discoverd again by a Luigi player trying to land faster to the stage to grab an item. It (as well as dash-dancing) was popularized through Ken using it
http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=10999 (The Aim thingy)
Mr. Wizard definitly seems like a jerk at first, but when you stop and think about it... how many times in the past has some guy talk to him on AIM/Email about running a tournament/ coming up with a rule set that had no idea what they were talking about? (Say for instance, the ruleset suggested was ALL Items, Space animals banned, Kongo Falls only or the eviavelent to the other games). Evo is very large and they need to be firm in their desicions. They can't let other change their minds about something once the event is being planned.
It isn't some random guy telling him to change the rules though. It's an entire community.
Also people should give more credit to Evo. Without big events like Evo, we wouldn't have a strong community we do now where we can take a party game like Smash Bros. and refine the crap out of it to create a decent fighter while having the world agree on it. It's absolutely amazing! Evo has allowed players to meet from everywhere for many games and the community grows and learns from it. They know what they are doing.
Smash was featured at evo last year and it wasn't smash's biggest tournament that year. We've only been there once. The smash scene did not grow exponentially due to evo.
New games usually have a hard time getting into Evo because of the same problem this game is having: People can't agree on a rule set. (Happened with Tekken 5: DR and Soul Caliber 3 as I recall) This takes time and it will be done correctly. (Brawl isn't going anywhere and another one won't be out for a decade)
A ruleset has been decided that a majority agreed upon. The approximately 30 members of smash SRK are arguing for items. Almost an entire community is against them. EVO has decided to go for those 30 people.
So to summarize:
1) If you don't think I have credit/proof, don't address these things. I'll still post my other 4.
2) There are many ways around/planning with items
3) Evo has been successful with other games in its gatherings but it took time to get there. Give them time to deal with a new game.
1) I didn't have time to deal with this until now cuz of aps.
2) There are also many ways to outplan those plans. People just prefer playing with them off. All the reasons people post don't make items broken, it's just that people prefer playing with them off. You can't plan around items as you can never accurately predict when an item will spawn and you can't really factor in stage control as items are set to spawn close to player. Even though the person controlling the center of the stage may have an advantage in the number of item spawns, but since controlling the center of the stage is usually a good thing in regular brawl anyways for most characters, it doesn't really add much.
3) What time can we give them? They aren't changing the rules, and the likelihood of brawl returning after what happened this year is very unlikely.
Also, Dedede and Peach can pull out Bomb-ombs and capsules with items turned off AND item rate on None. (Though no items will come out of the capsule, not sure if the capsule could be an explosive)
If DDD can the rate is low enough that it doesn't matter in the long run. I've played DDD quite a lot and this has yet to happen with me.
That was known about Peach since melee (she can pull death turnips, semi-death turnips, beamswords, bo-ombs, and mr. saturns)
And Diddy's Bananas are just as much everyone elses than it is for him! (Sorry, I didn't want to look through 10 pages to find the exact quote: Someone said the bananas is an unique advantage to Diddy that no one else should have access to). Learn to catch items! (Yes you can catch peanuts also, other Dededes can indirectly catch waddle dees and Doos with timed forward Bs) And learn your reflecting moves (Ness/Lucas's Bat/Stick, Robs F-B etc, Ike and Marths Counter[Well doesn't reflect but you wont get hit by the item either] and super armor moves)
Finally: I don't mean to insult people when I say "Skill is required to do this" when players failed to do something. Skill is being able to apply what you know in a game. If you don't know something, then how can you skillfully do it?
And if I post anything that was said before or any info people might know about, that stuff is more for people who didn't have the patience to read everything to now and for people who might not know anything about Item Warfare.
My opinion on what "side" I'm on will come in post 4.
There's more to skill than that, but that's just another thing altogether and not really related to items.
I was confused on your 2nd paragraph here. Can you reword it lol.
Next time: Items
Sorry for the read
TheKiest
Are u keits?
And weren't we talking about items lol.
