Swf, gone to **** since 04-18-2010, 08:51 PM.
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The Falcon Match-Up Index
- Thread starter Darky-Sama
- Start date
lordhelmet
Smash Master
P3's post is right. Swf, gone to **** since 04-29-2010, 08:22 AM would've been more accurate.
Sovereign
Game Reaper
2Knee, I'm with you when you're right, but in this case, Falcon pulls ahead. Ganon is bottom tier because he's bound to meet a bad match-up in a tournament, which happens to be every character in the game.
No.
You guys are the stupid ones, if any, offc.
We could argue this for 2+ pages, but you guys are biased.
Ganon's got just enough to be slightly better than falcon. Period.
And sovereign, your logic can be said about falcon, too.
smashkng
Smash Lord
Falcon's recovery isn't much better than Ganon's because Ganon can also edge guard you with moves like Uair and Dair.
lordhelmet
Smash Master
LOL.
I thought 2Knee was trolling when he said Ganon was better than Falcon. But wow, 2Knee I actually thought you had some knowledge until now.
Edit: And Knee, the "5 spots isn't much difference" was in response to Flamingo's "he rose 7 spots up".
I thought 2Knee was trolling when he said Ganon was better than Falcon. But wow, 2Knee I actually thought you had some knowledge until now.
Edit: And Knee, the "5 spots isn't much difference" was in response to Flamingo's "he rose 7 spots up".
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Even Ray_Kalm from the Ganonboards claimed it was in Falcon's favor, despite people saying it could be even. It was a 50:50 // 45:55 in Falcon's Favor. Almost equally matched but Falcon has more of an advantage than Ganondorf.
The best thing Ganondorf has against Falcon is Side+B -> Dtilt. Everything else, Falcon can smack him away or punish his cooldown time for ridiculously easy. A good Ganondorf has the potential to make it fairly even though, IMO.
The best thing Ganondorf has against Falcon is Side+B -> Dtilt. Everything else, Falcon can smack him away or punish his cooldown time for ridiculously easy. A good Ganondorf has the potential to make it fairly even though, IMO.
good should not have anything to do with a matchup discussion
matchup discussion isn't talking about human players AT ALL it's about character vs character and what one can do to the other, and how stages and counterpicks affect the matchup
I.E: diddy vs mk would be in diddys favor, if diddy had more stages to pick agaisnt mk that were like FD, and MK didn't have a plethora of really stupid stages to CP agaisnt diddy
matchup discussion isn't talking about human players AT ALL it's about character vs character and what one can do to the other, and how stages and counterpicks affect the matchup
I.E: diddy vs mk would be in diddys favor, if diddy had more stages to pick agaisnt mk that were like FD, and MK didn't have a plethora of really stupid stages to CP agaisnt diddy
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Okay, let me rephrase what I meant by that last part. A good player, naturally meaning someone who can punish, knows what to do, when to do it, without getting punished themselves; can make the Ganondorf match-up seem even. Ray_Kalm, Vermanubis and Breezy are the main reasons I even claim that.
Falcon certainly has the advantage at a professional level though. Aside from Brinstar, I don't think Ganondorf has an advantage over Falcon anywhere.
Falcon certainly has the advantage at a professional level though. Aside from Brinstar, I don't think Ganondorf has an advantage over Falcon anywhere.
Whenever I think about considering the Falcon/Ganon matchup at a professional level I can't stop smiling.
Nothing against said characters mains heh.
Nothing against said characters mains heh.
Offcz not. Falcon sucks so much and falls victim to almost everything ganon falls victim too and ganon has teh chainchokez.
lordhelmet
Smash Master
Chainchokez is over-rated. And no, Falcon doesn't suffer near as much as Ganon. Ganon can't recover and he gets punished for landing up-b's among many other things. Plus Falcon lives just as long as Ganon...
lordhelmet
Smash Master
That's not a "comeback" I was explaining to you and your stupid :D smiley.
And I highly doubt you're trolling, you just said that after P3 agreed with me.
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Like I said.
Murder Choke -> Dtilt is the main thing Ganondorf has on us.
Possibly a 0% Dair -> Dair -> Reverse Uair -> Fsmash, but that works on most of the roster.
Murder Choke -> Dtilt is the main thing Ganondorf has on us.
Possibly a 0% Dair -> Dair -> Reverse Uair -> Fsmash, but that works on most of the roster.
†Slader7†
Smash Ace
Raptor boost => uair x 2
rinse and repeat
rinse and repeat
smashkng
Smash Lord
Nah Falcon's recovery is only slightly better than Ganon's. Falcon's recovery is easy to read and you can 1st hit him and after edge hog to his death or punish the landing if he manages to come onstage.
And Falcon doesn't live as long as Ganon in the matchup without gimps because Ganon has far more KO power. And in gimps in the matchup the only difference is that Falcon can gimp Ganon at lower percents than viceversa. It's no way hard to gimp Falcon with Ganon as I said above.
lol. P-3 isnt really someone here.
And y so butthurt lordy? :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
It was actually this one
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Falcon has far more control over his recovery than Ganondorf, though I wouldn't consider it much better. Another thing is Ganondorf can get punished for even landing an up+B onto his opponent. Uair or Fair punishes him almost flawlessly, varying on the character.
I wouldn't say Ganondorf dies as easily as Falcon, but Falcon has far more opportunities to punish and KO Ganondorf for just about anything he does. Rather it's punishing his reaction toward a pseudo air combo {dthrow -> uair} or punishing him as he's recovering. Unfortunately for Ganondorf, he's a large, slow target. Majority of his attacks leave him in a position to be punished if shielded or avoided, so he's usually left taking damage at a much higher DPS rate than Falcon is. Ganondorf's attacks deal a lot of damage with a solid hit though, not to mention his kill potential, so yeah. It isn't all that horrible for Ganondorf either.
Judging that the Falcon doesn't stale the knee the entire match though, he can save it to punish Ganondorf and guarantee a KO around ehh... probably 70%. Maybe 60-65% near a ledge if he punishes Ganon's ledge recovery option properly.
Chasing Ganondorf offstage is stupid. If he decides to side+B toward the ledge, Falcon can lose a fresh stock easily. Which is why I usually just wait on the stage, punish reactions with a SH Knee or a grab -> fthrow to wrack up damage.
lordhelmet
Smash Master
"Chasing Ganondorf offstage is stupid"
Chasing Ganondorf offstage when you have a lower percent than him is stupid
Fixed. I agree with pretty much everything else you said
Chasing Ganondorf offstage when you have a lower percent than him is stupid
Fixed. I agree with pretty much everything else you said
when you 0-death a aircamping jigglypuff by doing sweetspot knee > sweetspot knee > up b near the blastzone you can talk to melol. P-3 isnt really someone here.
And y so butthurt lordy? :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
It was actually this one
went all falcon at a tourny today except agaisnt p1, got 2nd
also chasing ganon offstage is the easiest thing ever
flub knee beats out his side be so just jump and him with flubs until you connect, then uair/up b if you're out of jumps
I was just foolin' around, dawg.
But I've done moar epic stuff than that. And you too, probably.
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
^
Unless he's below the stage as well, that's probably your safest opportunity to punish him.
Sovereign
Game Reaper
Depending on how you go about doing it, could spell death for you. Ganon's Uair is no joke, so don't take him lightly off stage.
..
jump at him from teh stage
and flub knee
it will trade hits with uair/beat out side b, and as long as you aren't at kill percents then you can get back to the edge and edgehog him before he gets back the stage b/c he sucks so bad
and if you get spiked, it's because you suck
jump at him from teh stage
and flub knee
it will trade hits with uair/beat out side b, and as long as you aren't at kill percents then you can get back to the edge and edgehog him before he gets back the stage b/c he sucks so bad
and if you get spiked, it's because you suck
exdia_16
Smash Journeyman
okay since there is no Matchup thread for peach can i get sum help here wat to do wat not to do and killing moves.
Zatchiel
a little slice of heaven 🍰
Fixed it for ya
†Slader7†
Smash Ace
use UAir alot,
avoid laggy moves,
peach's aerials are ****,
turnips are annoying but managable,
FAir/NAir are usual kill moves,
avoid going above Peach (uair, dair, ftilt, utilt, usmash hurt alot x.x )
be fast, agile, and alert for tricky turnips (bombs, items, etc)
punish missed Peach Bombers and B moves
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Peach is one of our worst non-high tier match-ups. Her Fair range and spacing via glide can punish most of our aerial approaches and if we're on the ground, she can abuse our fast falling properties to perform a 60%+ combo string.
Example; Dair -> Dair -> Ftilt -> Ftilt -> Utilt.
Dair -> Ftilt -> Jab -> Grab -> Down Throw -> Down Throw -> Ftilt -> Utilt.
There's a lot of stuff she can do to us combo-wise that it's almost impossible to avoid. She can string a chain a down throws on us that can rack up just as much damage as Falco's chaingrab, or more, even, if she follows up with Ftilt -> Utilt afterward.
Try to be patient and campy until you can find an opening. It's possible for her to auto-cancel all her aerials, but if she falls at the wrong time, it leaves about 4-5 frames for you to punish her. Some of her attacks have long hitboxes that *DO* allow her to hit you many frames after it comes out -- such as Dair and Bair. If she uses those against you, spam short hop Nair. I would recommend Uair, but considering most Peach users abuse her glide right around the character's head (where she can safely string attacks), it's hard to get close with a Uair so it hits. You have to be extremely close and have godly buffering for Uair to punish him from that position, so approach with short hop Nairs, fastfall, rinse and repeat.
On the ground, avoid Peach's glidetoss -> Dash Grab. Like I said up top, she can combo a down throw into a ftilt -> utilt or even a pivot jab -> regrab. Sad thing is, Falcon's vulnerable to most of these strings. Not as vulnerable as Snake, but pretty **** close. Her ground game isn't difficult to get around though, so just play safe and try to pressure with ranged attacks.
Also, discussions like this go in the General Discussion Thread, not the Index.
Example; Dair -> Dair -> Ftilt -> Ftilt -> Utilt.
Dair -> Ftilt -> Jab -> Grab -> Down Throw -> Down Throw -> Ftilt -> Utilt.
There's a lot of stuff she can do to us combo-wise that it's almost impossible to avoid. She can string a chain a down throws on us that can rack up just as much damage as Falco's chaingrab, or more, even, if she follows up with Ftilt -> Utilt afterward.
Try to be patient and campy until you can find an opening. It's possible for her to auto-cancel all her aerials, but if she falls at the wrong time, it leaves about 4-5 frames for you to punish her. Some of her attacks have long hitboxes that *DO* allow her to hit you many frames after it comes out -- such as Dair and Bair. If she uses those against you, spam short hop Nair. I would recommend Uair, but considering most Peach users abuse her glide right around the character's head (where she can safely string attacks), it's hard to get close with a Uair so it hits. You have to be extremely close and have godly buffering for Uair to punish him from that position, so approach with short hop Nairs, fastfall, rinse and repeat.
On the ground, avoid Peach's glidetoss -> Dash Grab. Like I said up top, she can combo a down throw into a ftilt -> utilt or even a pivot jab -> regrab. Sad thing is, Falcon's vulnerable to most of these strings. Not as vulnerable as Snake, but pretty **** close. Her ground game isn't difficult to get around though, so just play safe and try to pressure with ranged attacks.
Also, discussions like this go in the General Discussion Thread, not the Index.
Ok I played a lot against Peach lat 2 days so here are my 2 cents :
-Don't try to punish these moves : Fsmash, AC Fair, Usmash. They recover too fast.
-You can't edgehog the umbrella but you can do a falling Bair before she does her up B
-If you shield the bomber it will go through you. With good reaction time you can place a hyphen smash I think, else you can dash attack and dash grab.
-Be very careful when recovering, if you get hit by a turnip offstage you're dead (except if the Peach doesn't edgehog you).
-If she Dthrows you at low percent DI toward her and spam jump to footstool her.
-SDI her Dair behind her, you might get hit by Bair but at least you won't get chain Dair'd
Now what you can do :
-Abuse your usual tools (jab, grab, Uair, Bair, Nair),
-be wary that when floating she can't airdodge, so punish it with dash attack/raptor boost (or maybe FK, but not too much), outspace it with Ftilt
-edgeguard her if she's recovering above the ledge level, Uair Bair and Nair work wonder. You can Dive if she's floating,
-learn to intercept turnips with aerials or airdodges,
-punish floating with dash attack/RB/Ftilt. Said twice becausde it's really important,
Also what I found very useful these days : don't jump into the ****. I got killed at stupidly low percent by her Usmash.
-Don't try to punish these moves : Fsmash, AC Fair, Usmash. They recover too fast.
-You can't edgehog the umbrella but you can do a falling Bair before she does her up B
-If you shield the bomber it will go through you. With good reaction time you can place a hyphen smash I think, else you can dash attack and dash grab.
-Be very careful when recovering, if you get hit by a turnip offstage you're dead (except if the Peach doesn't edgehog you).
-If she Dthrows you at low percent DI toward her and spam jump to footstool her.
-SDI her Dair behind her, you might get hit by Bair but at least you won't get chain Dair'd
Now what you can do :
-Abuse your usual tools (jab, grab, Uair, Bair, Nair),
-be wary that when floating she can't airdodge, so punish it with dash attack/raptor boost (or maybe FK, but not too much), outspace it with Ftilt
-edgeguard her if she's recovering above the ledge level, Uair Bair and Nair work wonder. You can Dive if she's floating,
-learn to intercept turnips with aerials or airdodges,
-punish floating with dash attack/RB/Ftilt. Said twice becausde it's really important,
Also what I found very useful these days : don't jump into the ****. I got killed at stupidly low percent by her Usmash.
Zatchiel
a little slice of heaven 🍰
Won't attacks go though her Turnips? Or at least cancel them out?
Against the Peaches(<Lolz) I've played, Turnips haven't really been an issue; Just SH-airdodge to catch or use a Ftilt to cancel one throw from the ground.
In the air, i normally just Nair to catch them and have an attack going for me at the same time.
Against the Peaches(<Lolz) I've played, Turnips haven't really been an issue; Just SH-airdodge to catch or use a Ftilt to cancel one throw from the ground.
In the air, i normally just Nair to catch them and have an attack going for me at the same time.
Darky-Sama
Smash Lord
Her turnips aren't a huge issue. They can go through some of our attacks IIRC, but they're usually canceled out. I think the type of turnip she pulls could have an effect on that as well, so I just avoid them in general. If you're good at your item game, you could always air dodge at the last second and catch 'em too.
It's safer than Nair, but if you're confident in your ability to catch them, by all means. lol
It's safer than Nair, but if you're confident in your ability to catch them, by all means. lol
Warios are discussing Falcon, let's go tell them how it works :
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=275823
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=275823
lordhelmet
Smash Master
Thanks, I gotta get these *******s straight