The Fox of 09 VOLUME 2: tactics week 3: person with the best things to say

[Uzima (Uzi)]

okies, getting rid of tripoping form the cons, fox trotting is pretty nice.

sliding up-smash super easy, jump cancel shine out of the dash, pivot grabs, extended and instant dash attacks, extended f-smashes in both direction, ect ect.

it does give alot of options, but i dont think it's faster than a full run like it was in melee.

 

[RPK]

Well, to Fox Trot, its pretty easy to pull off. You just tap one direction and let go to initate a run, but you only use the opening animation. That opening animation can be used over and over in order to perform a Fox Trot which is about as fast as a run. However you can change direction right when you wish to. And there is a bunch of things that can be done out of a Fox Trot. Because a Fox Trot counts as a run, you can initiate a dash attack right off the bat. OR even at the end of a Fox Trot you can initiate one. Fox Trotting you can do these right at the end of it giving you the option of either:
Dash Dancing
Fox Trotting again
True Pivot
Boost Pivot Grab

As well as having it go into a run, shield, dash attack, dash grab, or just jumping.

EDIT: Well, its about as fast imo....If not just a little bit slower.

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

Yeah, Fox Trot is essential for a player to play good with Fox. It should be his main for of mobility because he should be constantly shield canceling waiting to punish. It is a great way to create and narrow space.

All the other options have pretty much been covered.

 

[RPK]

Fox trotting was one of the first things I messed with as a Fox player. I still use it a lot to this day. But Im a lot more in the air then I used to be. I dunno...Maybe I should switch back to my old play style. I never got any critique on my play styles other than me constantly losing with no one to help me in refining my style T3T /*****ing and moaning

 

[soul ark]

i think we hit all the points so... week 3 will be something a little more complex lets talk about SHADing and how it can be used to approach.

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

^agreed.

Also about Fox Trotting it also goes hand in hand with SHL/DL/TL.

 

[Uzima (Uzi)]

is it just me or are these weeks going by super fast

 

[soul ark]

im going by fox week's which is like every 3 hours on tuesday and wendsday

 

[Uzima (Uzi)]

im going by fox week's which is like every 3 hours on tuesday and wendsday

lol



well for shad'ing
I don't actually use it that often(well actually if ever)
this will be good for me, to get some info on SHAD and it's uses.

 

[RPK]

Shading...Meh, Im personally not a fan of it. It does have it's uses such as trying to get behind an opponent. Though you can use it by having your back to the opponent when your trying to get the kill on your opponent by mixing up, shads, bairs, short hopped single lasers and utilts. Or even using it to get behind your opponent, and then upsmashing right after since you technically have your back to the opponent. In addition it is a bit nice because upon landing you can also downsmash as well. Though Im just thinking of some ideas that I would actually use it for since I dont really use it that often in my matches. I personally dont think its that good as an approach. Only good to throw out there every now and then, or if the opponent wants to come up to you and attack you during your short hop.
-shrugs- Just an idea I guess.

 

[chaindude]

well i SHAD a bit depending on the percent hopefully they whiff a somewhat laggy attack and i can get an up smash out or just go for a sheild grab

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

Yeah I'm not that big a fan of SHAD because I find myself just short hopping around waiting for the time to punish.

 

[A6M Zero]

I don't actually use it that often(well actually if ever)

Shading...Meh, Im personally not a fan of it.

Yeah I'm not that big a fan of SHAD

*A6M Zero twitches*

If for no other reason, SHADing incessantly even when nowhere near your opponent is a nice way to deter coordinated approaches, it can be a "wtf" effect. If I'm not shining somebodies respawn point to annoy them, I'm SHADing around the stage to remind them I can. Then do it sometime during the match for an offensive reason and watch them be helpless.

IE, SHAD approach into Firefox.

 

[Uzima (Uzi)]

this will be good for me, to get some info on SHAD and it's uses.

If for no other reason, SHADing incessantly even when nowhere near your opponent is a nice way to deter coordinated approaches, it can be a "wtf" effect. If I'm not shining somebodies respawn point to annoy them, I'm SHADing around the stage to remind them I can. Then do it sometime during the match for an offensive reason and watch them be helpless.

IE, SHAD approach into Firefox.

now i have some positive info on SHAD'ing.
got to try that on my bro and see what happens X3

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

Lol the only time I really used SHAD is when my opponent just got KO'ed and I start wavedashing. And of course there is no wavedash anymore so I get SHAD =D

 

[soul ark]

I feel bad that i have to use ghetto comp tactics to see whats going on... RPK and A6M hit the nail on the head again so im willing to call this another week...

this week will be on applications of the footstool jump

and if any one is wondering what i mean by ghetto computer tactics im using my wii to get on the internet because my laptop crashed. thus why my text is not in slate grey.

 

[A6M Zero]

Inferior to shine for spiking save low-vert recovery characters (MK, DK).

Useless on stage except to shine (which you could have done already) or you've become the first person to master Fox's infinite.

 

[crifer]

only apllication I found for fs jump is when you sh dair someone recovery near the edge,
and then mash jump, then you can FS them, works against falco and some others,
when some people are hanging on the ledge and want to get up,
it works too.

 

[Uzima (Uzi)]

After there falling to there doom, drop down and foot stool them for the lulz, and watch there face as it happens


but in all serious i dont actually use it to much, sometimes when recovering you might get the chance to foot stool their animation and get the jump even if it doesnt drop them.

 

[chaos_Leader]

Although unreliable, one can use it over the stage if the final strike of F-air misses (assuming you have an extra jump) to keep your opponent pinned down.

But like I said: it's unreliable, and there are potentially better things to do if the final F-air strike misses.

 

[soul ark]

whats next then you guys

 

[Uzima (Uzi)]

How bout running reverse up-smash as the next discussion.

 

[chaos_Leader]

It'd be more helpful to discuss strategic and tactical techniques, rather than the use of an individual maneuver.

 

[RPK]

Alright. Lets cover something simple but can be complex at the same time...Jumping. As you know, jumping is to help us recover, and to help us get into the air and can easily be switched between a short and a full hop. What I want to determine is the ups and downs when performing a full hop, as opposed to performing a short hop and visa versa. In addition the ups and downs to our second jump. It's height, falling speed, our options out of it, ect. when compared to our first jump.

What do you guys think?

 

[soul ark]

im taking chaos leaders advice

 

[Orrax]

Alright. Lets cover something simple but can be complex at the same time...Jumping. As you know, jumping is to help us recover, and to help us get into the air and can easily be switched between a short and a full hop. What I want to determine is the ups and downs when performing a full hop, as opposed to performing a short hop and visa versa. In addition the ups and downs to our second jump. It's height, falling speed, our options out of it, ect. when compared to our first jump.

What do you guys think?

I actually think that Fox might have quite a few options off of full hops. There's a post I found by TKD in the MK matchup thread (url is here: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6675668&postcount=540) where TKD starts talking about misunderstood MK matchups, and one of the ones he talks about is Fox vs. MK. The interesting thing in the post for me is not so much the matchup discussion itself, but he brings up a ton of things Fox can do off of a full-hop which I think can be applied to far more characters than just MK. If you'd like, give it a read; I found it pretty interesting. That and I'm curious to know what people think of the tactics he discusses there.

 

[Toronto Joe]

i forget what that footstool combo fiction posted was,but if someone can recall it,that definitely should be brought up for this week

 

[RPK]

Ooo, Tee Kay Dee! x3 I just love that man. I wanna play him again next tournament I go to. Anyways, I like that post...Its interesting to say the least. I didnt know you could footstool someone when theyre shielding o.O

But anyways, those uses of individual techniques will help out the community by having them possibly thinking of ways to apply it different things . Plus, when it comes to individual techniques, in addition of thinking on how theyre done, in addition to the what can be done from it, we can discuss how to use them strategically, and tactfully. Like for example with the laser discussion. I gave my opinion out on the right situations on when to apply this move, and how use it correctly when at certain distances. Thats discussing strategy and tactics right? Just applying it to a single move. Anyways...I suggest we do jumping since an important part of Fox is his aerial game.

 

[chaos_Leader]

We're thinking about Fox's game backwards.

In a match, you don't think of a technique and see how that applies to your game. You look at your situation and you make it work to your advantage. At any given time during a match, a good Fox will be ready to launch into any sequence. The techniques, strategies and tactics you use will almost always be determined by your opponent, what they let you get away with, or the situation you find yourself in.

Fox is not a Control-Freak, Fox is an Exploiter; and we should treat his tactical discussions accordingly.

So rather than giving us a move or a maneuver and asking us to discuss our use of it, give us a situation or scenario and ask us to discuss how we would handle it.
Examples:
-Recovery. How do you [Fox players] minimize the threat that your recovery methods are exploited?
-Dealing with certain opposing playstyles: aggressive, defensive, campers, etc.
-Provoking your opponent into making a mistake (essential to any Fox playstyle).

In a nutshell:
Don't ask us how we would use a move. Ask us instead, what move we would use.

 

[RPK]

Hm...But, its always good to know the things that you are able to do with X. And I assumed thats what this thread was about.

 

[KheldarVII]

I like that idea.

 

[Toronto Joe]

heres the footstool combo fiction found all credit goes to him

footstool > shine to stop momentum > drop weak nair hit > down angled ftilt across the stage (you can mix in weak nairs) > charge up smash

 

[crifer]

any vid of this?

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

heres the footstool combo fiction found all credit goes to him

footstool > shine to stop momentum > drop weak nair hit > down angled ftilt across the stage (you can mix in weak nairs) > charge up smash

Is this legit?

 

[SnowballBob33]

i liek full hops the best, fox jumps fast and falls quick. if u full hop and they spot dodge u can dair them or what i started doing lately which i find is his best move is BAIR(except for short ppl like kirby and squirtle). it cant be punished by many moves and has good follow ups becuz it has no lag.

short hop is for nair poking and fair. i sh dair very rarely becuz it becomes unexpected and people always expect full hop to dair. once u do short hop they dont see it coming and u get ur usmash to kill.

 

[soul ark]

The new volume will be the many tactics fox can use against opponents

i would like to ask people to express in the most coherent manner how they play as fox

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

The importance of lasers in Fox's game is an extremely important subject.

 

[Uzima (Uzi)]

The importance of lasers in Fox's game is an extremely important subject.

Quoted for truth.

 

[SnowballBob33]

yea, if i mastered shtl i would be where i wanna be. its sad cuz i fail at shdl more than twice in a row.

 

[718_ROOKI3]

1. I camp SHDL
2. Mindgame you into a combo
3. Make you look stupid in front of everyone
4. Talk maaaaaaaad smack
5. Usmash you
6. Repeat 1-5