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The Gimp Project

HeroMystic

Legacy of the Mario
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
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6,473
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San Antonio, Texas
NNID
HeroineYaoki
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Not surprised.

Your best best when edgeguarding Mario is Eruption when he is below the stage (He'll have to use Up-B to get back, so you may be able to intercept it with the large hitbox), and Using F-air when he's above. Anything else and you're pretty much out to getting yourself gimped.
 

Ussi

Smash Legend
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Mar 9, 2008
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New Jersey (South T_T)
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I agree with hero mystic. From my matches with BO X7, He showed me that Ike can't chase Mario off stage. Fireballs protect Mario and his cape stalls. Our limited recovery doesn't let us gimp Mario. Although the rare spike can happen if Mario gets lazy with keeping Ike away.
 

Arturito_Burrito

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
3,310
Location
el paso, New mexico
Well thats if you fall for the stall. This is just theory crafting but I think you can speed hug if you just react to the up B.

If not well it at least becomes easier at higher percents since your roll takes like 5 minutes.
 

ToxiCrow

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
944
Location
Long Island, New York
Lucas - Eruption perhaps? A bit more tricky then Ness as his Up B goes through things. Might be easier to get counter in though.
this works too: attack the ball on his pk thunder. when u do so, it'll disappear and he'll fall to his doom. but if ur going to do that, u might as well hit him with dair.
 

Judge Judy

Smash Lord
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
1,638
Well thats if you fall for the stall. This is just theory crafting but I think you can speed hug if you just react to the up B.

If not well it at least becomes easier at higher percents since your roll takes like 5 minutes.
No, it'd be the other way around; remember, Mario's Up B comes out in 3 frames and has some crazy ledge sweetspotting abilities. However, Mario loses a little bit of vertical height each time he stalls (other than the first cape), so Mario may be forced to recover early if he's lost too much vertical height.
 

HeroMystic

Legacy of the Mario
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HeroineYaoki
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Well thats if you fall for the stall. This is just theory crafting but I think you can speed hug if you just react to the up B.

If not well it at least becomes easier at higher percents since your roll takes like 5 minutes.
That's more of predicting than reacting.

Most Mario's cape stall up to three times. They can mix up the number of uses if they want to. Up-B is quick and has a large hitbox.

You should treat Mario's Up-B like a lesser version of Marth's Up-B.
 

Judge Judy

Smash Lord
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
1,638
coming out in 3 frames doesn't actually matter you know... Its how long the entire move is and I think every move that SS has the same SSing abilities.
There are definitely differences in SS between moves; some moves SS easier and have a larger area of where they can SS. Also, what HeroMystic said.
 

TheBuzzSaw

Young Link Extraordinaire
Moderator
BRoomer
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Jul 21, 2005
Messages
10,478
Here is the REAL Gimp project: http://www.gimp.org/

Zelda's teleport is slow enough to be abused off the edge. Ike can jump off and do a forward-air. :)
 

TheBuzzSaw

Young Link Extraordinaire
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BRoomer
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Why jump off and forward air when we can dtilt/dair her?
You are assuming she is teleporting to the ledge. I'm referring to when she is close enough to be forward-air killed meaning that she could teleport somewhere onto the stage (potentially out of punishment range if there are platforms and/or you guess incorrectly).
 

Nidtendofreak

Smash Hero
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^Eruption has the lovely SAFs to give us more fudge room though.

And we can charge it longer then a smash attack, giving MK less time to stall (he can still out stall it if he has all of his jumps. It's basically if we manage to Fair him after he's jumped 2 or 3 times.)

And it kills him at crazy low %s.

And long lasting hitboxes.
 

Guilhe

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
651
Location
Brazil, São Paulo
Here is a chance for me to get more in depth with Luigi’s recovery, here it goes:

Down B / Tornado

If Luigi hasn’t used all his jumps, then he is likely to use Down B as a recovery. There are lots of advantages in recovering this way:
• Invulnerability to edgehog;
• Characters without disjointed hitboxes may experiences difficulties hitting through the tornado’s hitbox (not our case);
• The tornado rises pretty fast, cancels earlier in the air and he doesn’t go into helpless state (being capable of performing two aerials on the way down);
• He doesn’t have to risk recovering at the ledge (where his short range ledgehopped aerials have little effect on characters with disjointed hitboxes).
You still can punish through conventional Eruption, but by doing so you are getting in range for being hit by the tornado ascendance. And considering you’ll need 30 frames perform an Eruption uncharged, it is quite possible you won’t make it in time. So prioritize aerials if you predict this recovery, this is a good opportunity for landing that Bair/Uair you’ve kept fresh.

Side B / Green Missile
This move is totally essential for Luigi’s recovery, and you’ll be dealing with it a lot. He’ll always use it after being sent too far from the stage as it has the most horizontal movement of any of his recovery moves. However, this move has a long duration, leaving Luigi very vulnerable. It does sweetspot the ledge, but Ike could hit him with Eruption before he does that. So he might use it to approach just enough for using His Down B or Up B recovery, if he approaches too much though, he would be susceptible to a walk-off Fair. So watch out if he is recovering too low. Also, there is a chance that Luigi will get his head stuck in the stage while using his Side B, take this opportunity and Dair him!

Warning: There is a chance that this move will misfire, making Luigi fly faster and farther than normal in a more accentuated arc. This move can potentially kill you in one unexpected hit! Try not to position yourself in his upper diagonal while he is charging the missile.

Up B / Super Jump Punch

The most conventional approach for sweetspoting the ledge. I’ve never been able to punish this recovery with Eruption, maybe because he is able to sweetspot the ledge before he gets inside the Eruption hitbox when recovering at a low angle. But then, conventional recoveries requires conventional gimps, just edgehog him.
 

metroid1117

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 1, 2005
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3,786
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Chester, IL
Side B / Green Missile
This move is totally essential for Luigi’s recovery, and you’ll be dealing with it a lot. He’ll always use it after being sent too far from the stage as it has the most horizontal movement of any of his recovery moves. However, this move has a long duration, leaving Luigi very vulnerable. It does sweetspot the ledge, but Ike could hit him with Eruption before he does that. So he might use it to approach just enough for using His Down B or Up B recovery, if he approaches too much though, he would be susceptible to a walk-off Fair. So watch out if he is recovering too low. Also, there is a chance that Luigi will get his head stuck in the stage while using his Side B, take this opportunity and Dair him!
You can also jump out in his way with a Counter, but if he gets a weak missile you may actually help his recovery.
 

Deoxys

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
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near Boston, MA
How to gimp Meta Knight: get your opponent off the stage and punch them in the face or unplug their controller.
 

Arturito_Burrito

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
3,310
Location
el paso, New mexico
sig? put it in a guide!!

@Nintendo: SA doesn't help as much because he won't be hitting you he'll be SSing. Plus a lot of other moves can be done on reaction while eruption might still not be enough.
 

YagamiLight

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
2,411
Location
California
How to gimp Meta Knight: get your opponent off the stage and punch them in the face or unplug their controller.
They can still make it back if they have a good enough reaction time.

Talk about broken!

I'd personally avoid going off the stage to gimp Meta Knight as doing that with any character is asking to be Shuttle Looped and *****, especially with Ike. His jumps are poor, so if he makes a mis-step you can Dtilt, but don't count too much on it. Dtilt can be attempted on Shuttle Loop too, I think there was a post a while back about how Shuttle Loop doesn't instantly snap to the edge, but your timing has to be strict. If he attempts to go above you you can time Aether, though use it wisely I guess. If you ask me, the best way to gimp Meta Knight is to go and use Eruption. It needs both skill and luck to work, but it if it does then Meta Knight is dead at outrageously low percents. If you mistime...you're taking a Shuttle Loop. Risk to reward wise I think Eruption is the best option. Fsmash is like an inferior version of Eruption in this case. If you think you're up to it, you might attempt to jump counter a predicted Drill Rush. Then again if you have the courage to do that then I suppose you may as well go the whole way and attempt a reverse Aether gimp (I take no responsibility for stage spikes, though I advise you learn teching.)

Anyways, I'll neatly organize this and have something pretty up by tomorrow. Same thing with the match-up guide, hopefully. I wanted to have a nice lengthy DeDeDe/Falco/Olimar/Meta Knight/Wario discussion as those seem to come up a lot in general talk (Meta Knight because we just like talking about him and Wario because I think we need to review him, since there is new information at hand), but there seems to still be PT convo. We'll wait until that finishes.
 
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