Data The Great Fairy Fountain II : Zelda Data & Research Repository

[#HBC | Scary]

Question.
Do both sides of the FW hitbox come out at the same time?
Pivotal to know for FF Nair conversions and whether or not there will be time to turn around and FW if frame advantage permits. I've noticed that every time I'm backwards and try to convert FW out of the Nair, it gets powershielded. Seemed like coincidence but I think it should be looked into

Y'know, unless it already has.

 

[KlicKlac]

Question.
Do both sides of the FW hitbox come out at the same time?
Pivotal to know for FF Nair conversions and whether or not there will be time to turn around and FW if frame advantage permits. I've noticed that every time I'm backwards and try to convert FW out of the Nair, it gets powershielded. Seemed like coincidence but I think it should be looked into

Y'know, unless it already has.

Yes, both sides of FW hitbox come out at the same time.

The backside of Nair does less damage than the front, so it would create less stun while you drag down an opponent. You might need to assume your opponent would shield in this case and try a turn around grab? Might depend if your opponent knows the zelda matchup and is aware of falling nair too.

 

[BJN39]

I'm not sure how much less hitstun the back multihits of NAir actually have atm, but in reality it should not be anything more then 2F, and it's probably actually none, but I'd have to go verify using whatever weighted KB formula, since that's not the same as the regular KB formula it seems.

Either way, turn grab would be a potentially worse FF NAir option, (the catch being should they shield) since it comes out at least 3F later than FW1, so it would not even work with the front hits. Turn Dtilt or Dsmash would both be faster than FW1.

 

[PGH_Chrispy]

I'm not sure how much less hitstun the back multihits of NAir actually have atm, but in reality it should not be anything more then 2F, and it's probably actually none, but I'd have to go verify using whatever weighted KB formula, since that's not the same as the regular KB formula it seems.

Either way, turn grab would be a potentially worse FF NAir option, (the catch being should they shield) since it comes out at least 3F later than FW1, so it would not even work with the front hits. Turn Dtilt or Dsmash would both be faster than FW1.

The point of turnaround grab is that any opponent worth their salt is going to be holding in L as soon as the falling nair starts, since shield is usually the fastest and safest option. Thus, turn around and grab to counter it. I wouldn't trust turnaround Dtilt or Dsmash anyway, since it's barely faster if you can execute perfectly.

 

[BJN39]

The point of turnaround grab is that any opponent worth their salt is going to be holding in L as soon as the falling nair starts, since shield is usually the fastest and safest option. Thus, turn around and grab to counter it. I wouldn't trust turnaround Dtilt or Dsmash anyway, since it's barely faster if you can execute perfectly.

I definitely agree with the shielding part.

However turn Dtilt/Dsmash is frame 6~7 at good execution, while turn grab is frame 11~12 at good execution after landing lag. (Meanwhile no turn FW1 is frame 8 after landing lag) There's a pretty sizable frame difference between attacking and grabbing, and the attacks should actually be guaranteed on many characters. If you were comparing turn attacks to FW though then yeah you're right. The difference is still there though! And one can be guaranteed when the other isn't.

 

[Rickster]

Can some gorl explain why Zelda got hit here?

Should've been a Safe Snap...

 

[evmaxy54]

Can some gorl explain why Zelda got hit here?

Should've been a Safe Snap...

Looks like he snapped to it from below as opposed to going to it directly

 

[BJN39]

^ That's what I wagered too. If you look closely when Zelda is suddenly hit you can see how she's a little bit below the ledge.

 

[evmaxy54]

Playing Pokken so much made me realise how important mixups are in fighting games. Every character in the game have the tools to always keep their opponent guessing, either through their attacks or their movement options (Dig, Minimise or Teleport for example). While Zelda may not have these movement options explicitly, certain combos that she has like (at kill %) Falling Nair > Dtilt > Uair can fail if the opponent can DI away the Dtilt (which is easy as **** since it's Nair's landing lag is awful). This is where the mixups could be useful. If the opponent is known to DI the Dtilt after the Nair Zelda can Dsmash instead (just as quick as Dtilt & has a semi-spike angle) which could put the opponent in a bad spot if they were close to the ledge, or even Elevator could work since we have good reason they will DI to avoid the Uair (provided the character is at a weight that Elevator is guaranteed).

The more Zelda's can problem solve through the use of mixups, the more dangerous her already fantastic punish game can get.

 

[BJN39]

That makes me think I should actually start compiling like, combo/punish moves and all available mixups, because it's true that a lot of her better "Combo/punish" options have mixups that cannot always be predicted or avoided. FF NAir certainly has several options, considering grab versus attacking, and then either FW1, Dtilt, or Dsmash, the latter two of which are guaranteed and work as complementing options as you just mentioned. Or hex even Nayru's if you wanna try it as a vs spotdodge mixup at low percents, because the intangibility will come out before any attacks can, and the hit duration would override a spot dodge.

 

[evmaxy54]

That makes me think I should actually start compiling like, combo/punish moves and all available mixups, because it's true that a lot of her better "Combo/punish" options have mixups that cannot always be predicted or avoided. FF NAir certainly has several options, considering grab versus attacking, and then either FW1, Dtilt, or Dsmash, the latter two of which are guaranteed and work as complementing options as you just mentioned. Or hex even Nayru's if you wanna try it as a vs spotdodge mixup at low percents, because the intangibility will come out before any attacks can, and the hit duration would override a spot dodge.

NL could work but since Dsmash does 12% & comes out the same frame as the I-frames there's no need to ever use NL after a falling Nair unless you're against Bowser or something

 

[Lord Renning]

The reason to use NL is because that move conditions the opponents to hesitate, wait, back off, or hold shield when they're close to you. That conditions them for mix-ups.

 

[PGH_Chrispy]

Can some gorl explain why Zelda got hit here?

Should've been a Safe Snap...

My bet is that they continued to hold down, preventing an instant ledge snap.

 

[Valamway]

I commented this on her video as well, but it's a common misconception that teleport upBs are safe if started above the ledge.
This is not true: ALL recoveries can avoid the 2-frame vulnerability window by snapping to the ledge from above.
But it does not matter where you start the move, only where you snap from.
It's just that most recovery moves can't aim down towards it, and the majority of the ones that can aren't invulnerable anyway.

 

[Rickster]

Has anyone else noticed that weird angle that's a little above the ledge where you don't have to stop holding down to snap (same spot in the video)? My guess is that the game still counts that as "snapping below the ledge" since it autosnaps which results in the 2 frame effect.

 

[Valamway]

There's no such "spot."
The video of Narcissa is clearly a snap from below the ledge, and you cannot snap at all if you are holding down.
While holding down, no character can grab the ledge during any kind of movement, animation, or recovery move.

 

[evmaxy54]

Finally got round and finished this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11-l45YP6luwqAE6gBWJttO9d4bdRadl9Q4HPQ_EQ_l8

If anyone wants to have me do some **** I'm down for it (if I can test it on my own that is)

 

[BJN39]

Finally got round and finished this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11-l45YP6luwqAE6gBWJttO9d4bdRadl9Q4HPQ_EQ_l8

If anyone wants to have me do some **** I'm down for it (if I can test it on my own that is)

So this would be the level of rage Zelda has at which the targets will be sent into tumble (Light grounded bounce) when she uses falling NAir, just to be clear? (I mean I'm pretty sure :^) )

I totally want to implement this into the OP tytytyty

Also I had the link to the spreadsheet for DAir knockdown somewhere on my phone at one point, and I'd done some work that I didn't add. somethingsomethingsomething

 

[evmaxy54]

So this would be the level of rage Zelda has at which the targets will be sent into tumble (Light grounded bounce) when she uses falling NAir, just to be clear? (I mean I'm pretty sure :^) )

I totally want to implement this into the OP tytytyty

Also I had the link to the spreadsheet for DAir knockdown somewhere on my phone at one point, and I'd done some work that I didn't add. somethingsomethingsomething

Ya. As you may already know the grounded bounce is really bad as the opponent can instantly throw out an aerial after the bounce, so this essentially gives the % range for when you could do falling Nair combos.

But this gives me an idea for falling Nair1 (one weak hit so the opponent gets popped upwards) regarding platform techchases which could be interesting, I just wish I could run the hitstun calculator ;_;

 

[KlicKlac]

Ya. As you may already know the grounded bounce is really bad as the opponent can instantly throw out an aerial after the bounce, so this essentially gives the % range for when you could do falling Nair combos.

But this gives me an idea for falling Nair1 (one weak hit so the opponent gets popped upwards) regarding platform techchases which could be interesting, I just wish I could run the hitstun calculator ;_;

Ya. As you may already know the grounded bounce is really bad as the opponent can instantly throw out an aerial after the bounce, so this essentially gives the % range for when you could do falling Nair combos.

But this gives me an idea for falling Nair1 (one weak hit so the opponent gets popped upwards) regarding platform techchases which could be interesting, I just wish I could run the hitstun calculator ;_;

I hate how mewtwo can just nair his way out of our falling nair combos. Zelda needs to have less than 36% rage!

 

[evmaxy54]

I hate how mewtwo can just nair his way out of our falling nair combos. Zelda needs to have less than 36% rage!

TwoMewbz sucks ;_;

At least we have Uthrow Uair for a good while on him

 

[KlicKlac]

TwoMewbz sucks ;_;

At least we have Uthrow Uair for a good while on him

Do we have a list for uthrow upair percent ranges for each character? I only know about uthrow upair working on fox around 60% or so

 

[BJN39]

Um,

Spoiler: Something regarding Uthrow combos

[1.1.6]|25F| 26F |27F| 28F |29F|30F| 31F |32F|33F|34F|35F|36F|37F|38F| 39F |40F
Bowser|0|4|9|14|19|25|30|35|40|46|51|56|62|67|72|77
CF|0|2|7|11|16|21|25|30|35|39|44|49|53|58|63|67
Roy|0|1|6|10|15|19|24|28|33|37|42|46|51|55|59|64
Frog|0|1|6|10|15|19|24|28|32|37|41|46|50|55|59|64
Falco|0|1|5|9|13|17|21|26|30|34|38|42|46|51|55|59
Shek|0|1|5|9|13|17|21|25|30|34|38|42|46|50|54|59
Fox|0|0|5|9|13|17|21|25|29|33|37|41|46|50|54|58

Horizontal Columns : Represented Character's weight stat for the calculations. Gravity NOT considered yet.
Vertical Columns : Number of frames of hitstun yielded at a certain percent.

Green ##F -> +7F advantage - Utilt "technically" guaranteed. (26F)
Yellow ##F -> +9F advantage - Usmash "technically" guaranteed. (28F)
Aqua ##F -> +12F advantage - j.NAir "technically" guaranteed. (31F)
Red ##F -> +20F advantage - j.UAir "technically" guaranteed. (39F)

Numbers do not consider KB the target receives, so while certain percents may become frame-guaranteed, they may fly too far for the move to be 'able' to work. IE j.NAIr hit 2 is technically frame 10, and won't work, Utilt reaches the vertical maximum in the arc frame 12-13, and won't work unless the target can be hit sooner by Zelda's arm hitboxes. (Which is usually how it works.)

I've started with the characters who appear the most in Maxy's data.

Knowing the cap offs distance/KB wise of each of the characters will allow us to have more definite windows as to when certain combos might work.

Also while certain frame numbers are denoted as the guaranteed point, remember that airdodges will add 1-3F more for Zelda to land any of these options, dependent on the target character. Please refer to KuroganeHammer's airdodge data to know exactly how much per character.

This was my pioneering concerning that, KlicKlac

It's obviously only 6 or so characters atm, but maybe I can come back around sometime and start collecting others. Like, at least characters agreed as high tier for beginners.

 

[KlicKlac]

This was my pioneering concerning that, KlicKlac

It's obviously only 6 or so characters atm, but maybe I can come back around sometime and start collecting others. Like, at least characters agreed as high tier for beginners.

Oh yeah, I saw that when you first posted it. It was useful, thanks for the work you put into labbing the percents. Didn't know upthrow upair would work on mewtwo, and I wonder who else you can land upthrow combos on.

 

[evmaxy54]

Do we have a list for uthrow upair percent ranges for each character? I only know about uthrow upair working on fox around 60% or so

I had a few characters done ages ago but I need to redo them again because of the Uair buff/weight nerfs of certain characters, but it tends to work around 50-60% mostly (there are some exceptions like Zelda about 46-49% & Ganon 70-73% for example). The characters I remember it not working on were Rosa, Peach & ROB out of the ones I tested before

 

[Meru.]

Is there a table with Zelda's frame advantage on hit? If not I could make it.

 

[BJN39]

Is there a table with Zelda's frame advantage on hit? If not I could make it.

I haven't tackled that yet, but it would be really big and cumbersome, at least, to get something more in-depth, since the advantage would increase with percent, and it differs for every character when it rises even 1F. (And it would be good to know its minimum advantage to its maximum advantage) That's a ~25x60 table...for one move. :^)

Or I could do something a bit less in-depth which would take way less time, but not give the numbers for every character. (Just the range between Bowser/Jiggs. ) I did something like that for Bayo a few weeks ago. [which I will edit in for a visual]

Spoiler: edit

I think this would be the most appropriate place (Outside eventually Crescent Valley of course)

Not really finished and stuff, but obviously knowing how guaranteed (Or if guaranteed) an attack is is nice data.

Bayonetta has a ton of data that is relatively complex, sso read this stuff to understand how the table is formatted and why there are multiples of certain attacks.

Right off the bat:
- Top row of percents are various percents...which should be obvious. They're the victim percents.
- The four numbers in each box refer to: ##F/##F -> the number of frames of hitstun induced (Bowser's weight/Jigglypuff's weight). +##/+## -> The frame advantage Bayonetta has upon FAF of her move in question. (Again, using Bowser/Jiggs)
- Due to how hitstun works, any hitstun of 40F or higher can be cancelled with airdodge, (Cancelled on frame 41, as though it had a FAF of 41 but only for airdodges) thus, the "+##" cap off at every move once they reach 40F of hitstun. HOWEVER, you cannot jump out of htistun until "Hitstun ends" thus the "##F/##F" still counts up. By doing a little maths you can figure out when the attacks can be cancelled with jumps at higher percents.
- ALL NUMBERS CONSIDER ONLY THE FIRST HITFRAME OF THE MOVES CONCERNED. But doing the math to get the hit advantage on the second third etc frame is not difficult. Just add +1 to the advantage for every frame later of a hitbox.
- For application: know how many frames it takes to use x/y/z attack and figure out if it is an applicable followup (ALso considering if a move does not knock too far by the time it works!)

Move stuffs:
- Ftilt1 "65/25"/"45/25"/"50/15" refer to three different hitboxes on Ftilt1 which all have to be considered. 50/15 is the only relevant hitbox versus aerial targets. 65/25 and 45/25 are the inner and outer spacing-wise hitboxes versus grounded targets. As you can see, only one of them guarantees a grab followup. fyi the numbers refer to each hitbox's base kb and kb growth.
- Dtilt has negligible hitstun differences between the two different damages.
- FAir1 has three different hitboxes, with different levels of hitstun. The innermost and lower one (Refer to Furil's hitbox visuals work) has the highest htistun, while the outermost reaching one has far less hitstun.
- It looks like there is a narrow percent area where non-correctly-DI'd Ftilt 3 should JUST lead into guaranteed Witch Twist. Looks really tight, however...

|000%|025%|050%|075%|100%|125%|150%
Ftilt1 62/25|25F/25F +6/+6|26F/26F +7/+7|27F/28F +8/+9|28F/29F +9/+10|29F/30F +10/+11|29F/31F +10/+12|30F/32F +11/+13
Ftilt1 45/25|18F/18F -1/-1 |19F/20F 0/+1|20F/21F +1/+2|21F/22F +2/+3|22F/23F +3/+4|23F/24F +4/+5|23F/25F +4/+6
Ftilt1 50/15 |20F/20F +1/+1|20F/20F +1/+1|21F/21F +2/+2|21F/22F +2/+3|22F/22F +3/+3|22F/23F +3/+4|23F/24F +4/+5
Ftilt3|32F/33F +4/+5|36F/38F +8/+10|40F/43F +12/+12|44F/48F +12/+12|47F/54F +12/+12|51F/59F +12/+12|55F/64F +12/+12
Dtilt 6%|31F/31F +12/+12|33F/34F +14/+15|36F/38F +17/+19|38F/41F +19/+21|40F/44F +21/+21|43F/48F +21/+21|45F/51F +21/+21
Dtilt 7%|31F/31F +12/+12|34F/35F +15/+16|36F/39F +17/+20|39F/42F +20/+21|42F/46F +21/+21|45F/50F +21/+21|47F/54F +21/+21
Utilt hit1|34F/34F +15/+15|35F/36F +16/+17|37F/39F +18/+20|39F/41F +20/+21|41F/43F +21/+21|42F/46F +21/+21|44F/48F +21/+21
Utilt hit2|28F/28F +13/+13|30F/32F +15/+17|33F/36F +18/+21|36F/40F +21/+25|39F/44F +24/+25|42F/48F +25/+25|45F/52F +25/+25
FAir1 80bkb|31F/31F +12/+12|32F/32F +13/+13|32F/32F +13/+13|32F/33F +13/+14|32F/33F +13/+14|33F/33F +14/+14|33F/34F +14/+15
FAir1 70bkb|27F/27F +8/+8|28F/28F +9/+9|28F/28F +9/+9|28F/29F +9/+10|28F/29F +9/+10|29F/29F +10/+10|29F/30F +10/+11
FAir1 65bkb|25F/25F +6/+6|26F/26F +7/+7|26F/26F +7/+7|26F/27F +7/+8|26F/27F +7/+8|27F/27F +8/+8|27F/28F +8/+9
HSlide 1a 72 |37F/37F -19/-19|38F/39F -18/-17|39F/40F -17/-16|41F/42F -16/-16|42F/44F -16/-16|43F/45F -16/-16|44F/47F -16/-16
HSlide 1b 72 |34F/34F -17/-17|35F/36F -16/-15|36F/37F -15/-14|38F/39F -13/-12|39F/41F -12/-11|40F/42F -11/-11|41F/44F -11/-11
HSlide 1c 72 |32F/32F -14/-14|33F/34F -13/-12|34F/35F -12/-11|35F/37F -11/-9|37F/38F -9/-8|38F/40F -8/-6|39F/41F -7/-6
HSlide 2 78|30F/30F +7/+7|33F/34F +10/+11|36F/38F +13/+15|39F/42F +16/+17|42F/46F +17/+17|45F/50F +17/+17|47F/54F +17/+17
ABKa 65/50|29F/29F +5/+5|31F/32F +7/+8|34F/36F +10/+12|36F/39F +12/+15|38F/42F +14/+16|41F/46F +16/+16|43F/49F +16/+16
ABKa 60/50|27F/27F +3/+3|29F/30F +5/+6|32F/34F +8/+10|34F/37F +10/+13|36F/40F +12/+16|39F/44F +15/+16|41F/47F +16/+16
ABKb 60/38|26F/26F +5/+5|28F/29F +7/+8|30F/32F +9/+12|32F/35F +11/+14|34F/37F +13/+16|36F/40F +15/+19|38F/43F +17/+19
ABKb 40/38|18F/18F -3/-3 |20F/21F -1 /0|22F/24F +1/+3|24F/27F +3/+6|26F/29F +5/+8|28F/32F +7/+11|30F/35F +9/+14
ABKc W:98|
ABKc W:70|
WTwist u1|27F/27F +23/+23|29F/30F +25/+26|31F/33F +27/+29|34F/37F +30/+33|36F/40F +32/+36|39F/43F +35/+36|41F/47F +36/+36
WTwist u2|14F/14F +10/+10|16F/16F +12/+12|17F/19F +13/+15|19F/21F +15/+17|20F/23F +16/+19|22F/25F +18/+21|23F/27F +19/+23

Please ask questions because I can forget to mention things that may need to be known.

Though one for Zelda may look a bit different

I mean, it's not that you can't do it, but I wouldn't want to make any Gorl sit and spend that much time collecting data with the KuroganeHammer calc when I've already gotten pretty proficient with it. I can expedite doing that if you'd like to see it.

 

[Rickster]

The last post here was early August cri
So I decided to post this here since this is where people who actually care about Zelda's meta go

Some of you may have seen this already:

ロマンコンボその2 pic.twitter.com/dJMxciOofP

— ソラ (@sora_zelda526) August 27, 2016

I don't think this is truly guaranteed. Especially the Nair 1>Kick finisher. Nair 1 is a good setup for this stuff, but it's escapable. Front Utilt also doesn't combo that well unless you're at a very specific %.

But then...*dramatic pause"

Some other person posted an improved version in response to it:

A TRUE 0-death footstool combo with Zelda. You just need to follow DI and this does work with staling. (TESTED) pic.twitter.com/bztNyHvr1m

— Ryukred (@Ryukred) August 4, 2016

Now this...this I can see happening. Except for 1 (edit: I'm blind there were 2 lol) techable Dair, it looks to be inescapable provided your timing is right. On top of that, it doesn't look insanely hard to do...with a bit of practice it might even become easy for someone to pull off.

Tldr; Back Utilt is godly. Zelda is overpowered and needs to be banned :secretzpop:
/s

TFW you see the tweet dates

So that means the true one was actually posted first lol

 

[KlicKlac]

I really wish that worked better Rickster. The hardest part is landing a dair jab lock after the footstool. Zelda always seems a tad bit too slow in landing the jab lock when I try.

Now the latest jank combo I'm trying to work on is dthrow to jump upb elevator lol.

 

[Valamway]

Except for 1 (edit: I'm blind there were 2 lol) techable Dair

You can't tech from a prone position, as in after a footstool.
Nor can you after a jab lock forced getup, at least not right away.
Those dairs are not techable.

 

[Lord Renning]

The last post here was early August cri
So I decided to post this here since this is where people who actually care about Zelda's meta go

Some of you may have seen this already:

ロマンコンボその2 pic.twitter.com/dJMxciOofP

— ソラ (@sora_zelda526) August 27, 2016

I don't think this is truly guaranteed. Especially the Nair 1>Kick finisher. Nair 1 is a good setup for this stuff, but it's escapable. Front Utilt also doesn't combo that well unless you're at a very specific %.

But then...*dramatic pause"

Some other person posted an improved version in response to it:

A TRUE 0-death footstool combo with Zelda. You just need to follow DI and this does work with staling. (TESTED) pic.twitter.com/bztNyHvr1m

— Ryukred (@Ryukred) August 4, 2016

Now this...this I can see happening. Except for 1 (edit: I'm blind there were 2 lol) techable Dair, it looks to be inescapable provided your timing is right. On top of that, it doesn't look insanely hard to do...with a bit of practice it might even become easy for someone to pull off.

Tldr; Back Utilt is godly. Zelda is overpowered and needs to be banned :secretzpop:
/s

TFW you see the tweet dates

So that means the true one was actually posted first lol

brb, maining Zelda.

 

[Rickster]

Nor can you after a jab lock forced getup, at least not right away.

O

Yay I learned something

 

[KlicKlac]

You can't tech from a prone position, as in after a footstool.
Nor can you after a jab lock forced getup, at least not right away.
Those dairs are not techable.

Not being able to tech after a footsool above the stage means you can do a true combo footstool into upB and hit them with FW2 as they hit the stage.

 

[BJN39]

I'm meaning to talk more here but I'm a bit busy, BUT

Utilt back hit > footstool > FW2 sounds like a hilariously swag combo to pull of at low percent. Not even for the kill, just for style

a true BAN•ZELDA combo

 

[KlicKlac]

I'm meaning to talk more here but I'm a bit busy, BUT

Utilt back hit > footstool > FW2 sounds like a hilariously swag combo to pull of at low percent. Not even for the kill, just for style

a true BAN•ZELDA combo

Ooh, but maybe it can be a true kill confirm at the right percent! Besides back hit of utilt, what are some other good ways to get an aerial footstool?

 

[Rickster]

Ooh, but maybe it can be a true kill confirm at the right percent! Besides back hit of utilt, what are some other good ways to get an aerial footstool?

Dthrow sets up for one, but I don't think it's guaranteed. We have a hard enough time getting our aerials to hit. Uthrow is the same but even more unlikely to work because of the frame advantage difference.

Jab could maaaybe work at really low %, but I feel like that's an option most wouldn't use, if it even works at all.

Nair 1 is also a setup, but not guaranteed. Dtilt is the same.

 

[KlicKlac]

Dthrow sets up for one, but I don't think it's guaranteed. We have a hard enough time getting our aerials to hit. Uthrow is the same but even more unlikely to work because of the frame advantage difference.

Jab could maaaybe work at really low %, but I feel like that's an option most wouldn't use, if it even works at all.

Nair 1 is also a setup, but not guaranteed. Dtilt is the same.

I have been testing footstool jablock and it seems like using c-stick (set to attack) makes it easier to fast fall the dair after the footstool. You just hit down on the c-stick to dair and then immediately press down on the analog stick. You should get a frame perfect dair fastfall.

 

[Valamway]

After doing quite a bit of labbing and practice, these combos are very difficult and frame tight, and never 100% true to death when your opponent DIs the footstools away at higher percents.
Because they're so tight, you can't fastfall dair to reset them as far to the side as they can DI.
At lower percents though, it's pretty buttery, and many mixups and followups are possible.
If they don't DI the footstools, it's not too hard to repeat the combo into a killmove.

Sad news though; footstool to FW2 is not a true combo at all.
Your opponent can roll out before you reappear, at least if they're anywhere close to kill%.
In fact, even if they getup in place they're still in the invincible standing-up animation by the time you appear on top of them.

 

[BJN39]

Sad news though; footstool to FW2 is not a true combo at all.
Your opponent can roll out before you reappear, at least if they're anywhere close to kill%.
In fact, even if they getup in place they're still in the invincible standing-up animation by the time you appear on top of them.

I'm pretty much not surprised at this point that Zelda gets cheesed out of a potential cool combo by the opponent's invulnerability frames.

Well, at least hot stuff like Utilt back hit > footstool > jab lock DAir > Finger Bang/LK/etc all can happen.

and I WILL collecT clips of them

Also clearly we need a name for the aforementioned highlighted setup secretkpop

Like, a list of all of the hot followups Zelda can get after the DAir jab lock would be fun. (Since you apparently cannot tech sweet DAir after the jab lock, there's also that to consider!) I'll be brainstorming.

 

[KlicKlac]

The bread and butter jablock followup for me is sweetspot dair into upB elevator. Works around 55% and the dair pops up the opponent so you can upB them.