The Green Lesbian is back! Learn sm4sh Samus from Brawl's best Samus player! Updated 2/19/2015!

[Xyro77]

The bomb activates instantly on contact with screw attack, well in advance of the timer end, at 1:30 and 1:35. I tested this extensively with my friend playing as Marth, which sadly, he could swat the bomb with his blade and activate it without taking damage. The effect is even easier to see when used on the power bomb custom (down 3), since the timer is significantly longer than on regular bombs. Unfortunately, the replays were lost when I upgraded with the patch, but I'll get my friend to help me re-record footage post-patch to demonstrate the effect tomorrow.

I'll totally defer to MU and strategy knowledge, as I'm not a very good player yet. But I do know the basic mechanic of bombs, and this is that they explode when hit by an attack. Not by proximity, but strictly on hit. You're right, though: there's no way to force your opponent to actually USE an attack, so they can space themselves accordingly. I'm not sure how they could apply at higher levels of play.

So are you saying a person can still run through a bomb but if he/she were to attack it then it would explode? If so, I'd think it would be decent for ledge guarding

 

[Beard Hawk]

I change character every Smash Bros game. I've watched veteran Samus players using her on Sm4sh and trying to missile cancel. Some of the mental game will be useful across different versions, but at the same time, some of your previous knowledge will be baggage.

In WW2 the Allies fought Germany in North Africa. The British had a lot of experience in tank warfare, while the Americans had none. The German general Erwin Rommel apparently believed that the Americans adapted to the fluid style of desert warfare faster than the British, because they had never known conventionally tank warfare on solid ground. I'm not dissing anyone who is loyal to Samus, all I'm saying is that to any newcomers, you have a fresh perspective as well. I'm sure that many veterans will be trying out Samus techniques from previous games when they first get their hands on the controller, while new players will just have an open path, only working with the current tools available.

 

[Xyro77]

Previous knowledge helps a ton and old habits will only be baggage at first. When I went from melee to brawl I had the habit of wavedashing for a few months but I finally got over it. Same will happen here. Luckily, brawl and Smash 4 are more similar than brawl/melee so it should be easier to learn.

 

[Beard Hawk]

Previous knowledge helps a ton and old habits will only be baggage at first. When I went from melee to brawl I had the habit of wavedashing for a few months but I finally got over it. Same will happen here. Luckily, brawl and Smash 4 are more similar than brawl/melee so it should be easier to learn.

Ah yeah, fair enough. I would switch to Falcon on Sm4sh sometimes as he's my Melee main, so I assumed that I'd be able to win with him when I couldn't with Samus... But then, when I started playing Melee again I had gotten much worse because his jump momentum is completely different between the two games. Sm4sh Falcon had made me forget how to play Melee Falcon. So it works both ways.

 

[Xyro77]

It's very hard to transfer from melee to brawl/smash 4. Two completely different games.

 

[A2ZOMG]

This was settled in brawl and it appears to be the same in smash 4......bombs are on a timer. It's not proximity like it was in MELEE.



Let me be clear: I am not here to shoot down any ideas. I am simply coming from 2 years of Melee samus experience and 6 years of brawl Samus exp (4 of which was at the highest level).

In my 6 years of brawl experience, every time a foe was hit by bombs, it was because he or she was not familiar with the MU or was too impatient in regards to waiting for the bomb timer to expire.

Having played people who know the MU I can tell you that if they are smart they will stay slightly out of samus f-tilt range and thus if a bomb is ever dropped they can and will Attack during/after the bomb dropping animation AND wait out the timer because Samus does NOT have a tool that MAKES the foe approach after a bomb is out. Especially since power shielding/rolling is so strong in brawl/smash 4.

Some of you think dropping a bomb and forcing the opponent to wait is part of the "Samus plan" but realistically, it's totally not.......in brawl that is. The enemy is always at the advantage assuming he/she had the % advantave. But this is Smash 4 so If smash 4 is different, Id love to be proven wrong. I BEG you all to prove me wrong because at the end of the day we make Samus better.


As for the tech with Zair, I see little use for it other than freaking out the for for a second or two. Very cool though.

So by that logic, Brawl Snake's grenades are terrible because realistically nobody who knows the matchup should get hit by them by knowing the timer for when they explode.

And simple solution: don't use Bombs when the opponent is specifically right outside F-tilt range and not committed in neutral. That's called being smart. Notice that is basically never what happened in the videos posted. Bombs were more often used to escape juggles, pressure ledge getups, or otherwise in positions where the opponent was not in range to just simply rush in. And if you're opponent is not in range to rush in, that's free time for you to stage control with Z-air, Charge Shot, and whatever other midrange options you normally have.

The biggest hole in Samus's gameplan is the fact her Jab is unsafe on hit at early percents, which makes her unnecessarily worse in footsies and close range than she should be. Well, arguably not safe on block tilts is also fairly significant (though they all have good range and startup). I'm not denying that Samus dislikes it a lot when people get right outside her F-tilt range because that is definitely where a lot of her current options are risky, and you mostly hope Z-air, Charge Shot, and Grab force people to play respectfully there, all of which are conditional for different reasons.

But if you let people just walk up there without putting down a Bomb BEFORE that happened, then I believe you possibly made a mistake somewhere. If you have room to move backwards, this lets you reestablish positioning for zoning while slowing enemy advances. (Even if you get cornered near the ledge, this isn't necessarily awful either because Samus has good OOS options, and you no longer slide off the ledge while shielding.) If someone is trying to juggle you, you can use them as a mobility mixup option that can force the opponent into an awkward position.

 

[Xyro77]

Dude what are you doing? Lmao snakes nades could be tossed, thrown, bounced, dropped. Can be used offensively, and defensively. They did damage if you got hit by them AND if you were near the explosions. They poked shields, drained shields, pushed shielded enemies off platforms and ledges. They could come out on frame 1 or 2 to screw up chain grabs. Snake also wasn't ridiculously left open while he pulled one out either. In fact, pulling out a nade in many cases was preferred because not many are heavier than snake and the trade off explosion would kill the foe earlier than than snake. Nades had infinitely more uses than Samus bombs. Trust me, I live in the same city as Ultimate Razer. But yeah, there is no connection from nades to bombs by logic or example.



Anyways, if bombs are useful in any meaningful way in smash 4, I am begging for people to post vids of it. The more tools we have the better.

 

[DoubtComplex]

The videos engarde posted earlier in this thread were pretty good examples but you dismissed them with "1. Lack of Samus MU knowledge. 2. Refusal to be patient."

Both of which are important factors but it didn't look like patience and knowledge would be enough to neutralize the bombs in the vid. There were plenty of times when they chose to be patient against the bomb(looking at the Greninja match mostly) but Samus is a setup character so the time they use to either do nothing or navigate around the bomb is valuable. The Samus player is seen using the time the bomb is active to either jab/throw/make space or even just wait so i think its safe to say they had time to react to the option the opponent chose in dealing with it. I think it might be worth it to revisiting the videos cause you weren't entirely wrong or anything but i think there's more to it.

ANYWAY, Hopefully when the game is out later tonight we will all be able to do a lot more than just watch some videos though. You can tell im going through withdrawls by the amount im typing about videos on this forum lol

 

[leiraD]

Dude what are you doing? Lmao snakes nades could be tossed, thrown, bounced, dropped. Can be used offensively, and defensively. They did damage if you got hit by them AND if you were near the explosions. They poked shields, drained shields, pushed shielded enemies off platforms and ledges. They could come out on frame 1 or 2 to screw up chain grabs. Snake also wasn't ridiculously left open while he pulled one out either. In fact, pulling out a nade in many cases was preferred because not many are heavier than snake and the trade off explosion would kill the foe earlier than than snake. Nades had infinitely more uses than Samus bombs. Trust me, I live in the same city as Ultimate Razer. But yeah, there is no connection from nades to bombs by logic or example.



Anyways, if bombs are useful in any meaningful way in smash 4, I am begging for people to post vids of it. The more tools we have the better.

Here's one use: I've found that dropping a bomb and then grabbing the oncoming attacker is a nice way to add a quick 5% to a grab. Not a definitive "bombs are awesome" statement, but just one use that I found.

 

[Rohins]

Anyways, if bombs are useful in any meaningful way in smash 4, I am begging for people to post vids of it. The more tools we have the better.

I'll make vids when I get my wii u copy. I have a few uses for down b that I get consistent results.

• Vs vertical recoveries or recoveries hugging a wall bombs will interrupt the recovery. This works better than it did in brawl because ledge magnet got nerfed. Creates some more edge guarding options + damage.
• A bomb when flashing will kill many other projectiles on hit. Useful when at long range and you want to protect yourself charging your blast vs a camper.
• I use the aerial mobility to avoid attacks. Bomb doesn't need to connect for this to be useful.

Nothing crazy, but useful in those respects. I use down b outside of those situations but can't vouch for consistency with the results.

 

[Xyro77]

Rohins, your 1st one is the only one I find that is pretty reliable.


DoubtComplex, I dismissed the vids because the game is only 2 months old and is on an inferior system. Also, 49 characters are in the game and clearly the Bower lacked the Samus Exp.

 

[DoubtComplex]

Rohins, your 1st one is the only one I find that is pretty reliable.


DoubtComplex, I dismissed the vids because the game is only 2 months old and is on an inferior system. Also, 49 characters are in the game and clearly the Bower lacked the Samus Exp.

Ok so if you only watch the first match your post makes sense, but 2 months in the game isnt insignificant. Its even more confusing that you say that after asking people to post videos to convince you if you don't even consider them worth watching lol.

 

[Xyro77]

Ok so if you only watch the first match your post makes sense, but 2 months in the game isnt insignificant. Its even more confusing that you say that after asking people to post videos to convince you if you don't even consider them worth watching lol.

Having multiple people from various backgrounds in various MUs tells us more than 2 vids of a bowser vs Samus.

 

[DoubtComplex]

I wish there were more matchups shown too but Its 2 videos with bowser/greninja/dhd/ganon/wario, its like you don't even want to consider these as part of the input. I mean its your prerogative so do what you want but it just seems odd.

 

[Xyro77]

I went through 6 years of Brawl where this very same discussion happened. No European/Japanese or me could figure decent options with bombs. I'm hoping enough has changed in smash 4 (Rohins #1 seems like it will work good) for this move to be useful again.

If any of you can find reliable uses for it, share it and let's get it on.

 

[Hapajin]

Samus's smash 4 version of Nair is far superior to the low knock back/low damage/short range Nair that she had in brawl. It will be useful in this game but I am unsure how to use it correctly as of now simply cause I do not have the WiiU version.

Glad someone else also shares this opinion about Samus' new Nair. I really like the knockback angle of the attack, it's not quite as low as a semi-spike, but pretty close, so landing one off stage is really nice for edgeguarding.

 

[Los4Muros]

Samus must have some pretty good strategies, that's for sure. The main problem with the community or at least this community is their few interest in Samus or in porting some information we could use. In other Character discussion forums people keep updated a list of gameplay videos and online matches where you can learn a thing or two from every video you watch. And although you won't want to use the tricks, it's a new option for your character. We don't have that here. Also some great people upload a moveset list with the frames each attack takes. Now that the patch came out, they compare the new damage list and frames each attack takes, with the old version. Yet so far we aren't able to see a difference, even if it's there, our lack of knowledge with Samus doesn't let us see what upgrades she got. We could at least make a Skype group like other forums do.
I'm hoping with this post and a good Samus user can fix this or at the very least explore a bit more Samus's capacity.

 

[Xyro77]

This thread is gonna have vids of me failing as well As doing well. Any tech I find or stage abuse I learn I'll share it here. I hide nothing

Lots of info will go up tonight here on my thread. Fear not.

 

[leiraD]

This thread is gonna have vids of me failing as well As doing well. Any tech I find or stage abuse I learn I'll share it here. I hide nothing

Lots of info will go up tonight here on my thread. Fear not.

Hey Xyro, as your playing tonight, see what kind of info you can get on playing g against ness, wario, and Mario. Probably the characters I struggle against most.

 

[Xyro77]

I just stopped playing. I'll upload vids when I'm not dead. Sorry it's taking so long.

Sleep time.

 

[ShinkiPrime]

I went through 6 years of Brawl where this very same discussion happened. No European/Japanese or me could figure decent options with bombs. I'm hoping enough has changed in smash 4 (Rohins #1 seems like it will work good) for this move to be useful again.

If any of you can find reliable uses for it, share it and let's get it on.

This is my first real dive into this series so please take anything I may post here with a grain of salt, but in an effort to keep the conversation going I would like to contribute a couple things I've found since I've been trying to make bombs a useful part of my toolkit.

Some things I've tried and I consistently fail at, which may be useful in the hands of someone more skilled than I am:

Short hop forward, bomb and retreat to stop rush-ins. They may trade a 9% bomb hit for a rush attack which puts Samus in the air and them at a faster recovery. This might work better if I maintained forward momentum and forced them to attack behind me, could probably sneak in a down tilt or throw.

*edit* I wish bomb jump recovered just fast enough for a bair, I have a feeling that would be really fun.

I don't think it's possible to drop a bomb in the height of a single jump that allows you to uair into them, locking them into the bomb hit if they shield (or don't) and allowing you to combo into the move of your choice.

Some things I've tried that seem helpful, but that perception may be due to my current skill level:

Ledge-guarding with bombs seems effective. If someone is obviously looking for a ledge-grab I'll often jump out and drop a couple bombs and then prep a charge shot when grounded. (if prepped then I just watch for their recovery to react.) I've stuffed a good number of up b recoveries and interrupted some horizontal b recoveries with this as well.

Recovering with bombs seems better than advertised, but probably needs a better mix of bombs and airdodging than I currently mix into my game. Besides having some offense while recovering the morph ball floaty movement seems to give a lot of horizontal recovery. Most memorably a Falco was chasing after me near the top of the screen, I dropped a bomb, dodged his attack, nailed him with uair into the bomb into my up b which killed at that height.

Finally, one tech I did accidentally I found terrific but I'm not sure how easy it would be to reproduce:

I was near the edge against an aggressive Doc Mario. He started to rush in so I dropped a bomb and rolled backwards a little. He grabbed me out of the ball, the bomb detonated right behind him pushing both of us off of the ledge. In my attempt to recover I immediately planked him, securing an astonishingly easy KO. I think I saved that reply, so I may be able to prove this occurred.

 

[EnGarde]

I'm looking forward to further input about Samus. I've been frustrated myself, since I know I'm not using her effectively, but I'm not sure how to fix that and play smarter. I really like Samus, and want to continue playing with her, but when I want to win against my friends (and hopefully, in the future, in tournaments), I switch to other chars (chars that I've practiced significantly less with).

Also, bitterly disappointed with Toys R Us. I posted a topic in another sub-forum, but due to delays on their end, I'm going to have to wait a LONG time before my copy for the Wii U comes in, and they won't give me the option of switching to an in-store pickup or cancelling the order outright. >.<

 

[Xyro77]

[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]Update from final version of smash wiiu. Whatever I post here in these pages will also go to the OP for easy reference.

Jab 1=3%
Jab 2=8%
Dash Attack (close)= 10%
Dash Attack (far)=6%
Zair (point blank 1st hit)=1.5%
Zair (fully extended 1st hit)=3%
Zair (fully extended 1st and 2nd hit)=4%
Pummel=1.2%
Uthrow=9%
Dthrow=6%
Bthrow=8%
Fthrow=9%
Ftilt (point blank)=6%
Ftilt (tipped)=7%
Ftilt up (point blank)=7%
Ftilt up (tipped)=8%
Ftilt down (point blank)=7%
Ftilt down (tipped)=8% (can tilt lock)
Dtilt=12%
Utilt (grounded)=13%
Util (air)=12%
Nair (1st hit)=8%
Nair (2nd hit)=7%
Bair (tipped)=14%
Bair (non tipped)=12%
Uair (all hits)=11%
Dair (spike)=14%
Dair (no spike)=10.5%
Fair (all hits)=11%
Dsmash (1st hit)=10%
Dsmash (2nd hit)=12%
Fsmash (point blank)=12=
Fsmash (tipped)=14%
Fsmash up (point blank)=13%
Fsmash up (tipped)=15%
Fsmash down (point blank)=11%
Fsmash down (tipped)=13%
Usmash (all hits)=18%
Charge shot low=3%
Charge shot medium= 11.5%
Charge shot full=25%
Down B (point blank)=9%
Down B (tipped)=5%
Up B (all hits)=10%
Homing missile=5%
Super Missile=10%[/COLOR]

 

[Los4Muros]

[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]Update from final version of smash wiiu. Whatever I post here in these pages will also go to the OP for easy reference.

Jab 1=3%
Jab 2=8%
Dash Attack (close)= 10%
Dash Attack (far)=6%
Zair (point blank 1st hit)=1.5%
Zair (fully extended 1st hit)=3%
Zair (fully extended 1st and 2nd hit)=4%
Pummel=1.2%
Uthrow=9%
Dthrow=6%
Bthrow=8%
Fthrow=9%
Ftilt (point blank)=6%
Ftilt (tipped)=7%
Ftilt up (point blank)=7%
Ftilt up (tipped)=8%
Ftilt down (point blank)=7%
Ftilt down (tipped)=8% (can tilt lock)
Dtilt=12%
Utilt (grounded)=13%
Util (air)=12%
Nair (1st hit)=8%
Nair (2nd hit)=7%
Bair (tipped)=14%
Bair (non tipped)=12%
Uair (all hits)=11%
Dair (spike)=14%
Dair (no spike)=10.5%
Fair (all hits)=11%
Dsmash (1st hit)=10%
Dsmash (2nd hit)=12%
Fsmash (point blank)=12=
Fsmash (tipped)=14%
Fsmash up (point blank)=13%
Fsmash up (tipped)=15%
Fsmash down (point blank)=11%
Fsmash down (tipped)=13%
Usmash (all hits)=18%
Charge shot low=3%
Charge shot medium= 11.5%
Charge shot full=25%
Down B (point blank)=9%
Down B (tipped)=5%
Up B (all hits)=10%
Homing missile=5%
Super Missile=10%[/COLOR]

Now that's what I'm talking about. I have a few notes for Samus and a few information I've gathered from other forums. Let me organize the information and I'll add my part too. Thanks for this. Finally I feel the Samus users can begin learning all there is to her. This is a good step. Thanks again for the information.

 

[Xyro77]

If you post it here, I'll add it to the OP and credit you.

 

[BigBowsa]

definitely going to study up on what's eventually going to be posted here, I'm also interested in wi-fi matches. thanks in advance.

 

[Xyro77]

Here is my thing on wifi: don't do it unless it's all you have.

Wifi develops skills/timing/setups that are based on lag and lower skilled players which are both not usually present in the offline Tournament scene. It's especially bad for characters like Samus who MUST rely on precision inputs and quick reaction times. But like I said, if all you have is wifi, go for it.

I have a video coming soon that goes into detail About zair (should be up tomorrow) It's not as good as it was in brawl (I'll show you why) but it still has a few situations where it's needed.




Off topic: is it just me or do next to
No moves with Samus shield poke the foes shield? Fair/uair were famous for poking shields in brawl but now it's super rare. This is a huge problem. I literally have to rethink everything.

 

[leiraD]

Nope. Definitely not much poking.

 

[Rohins]

Here's damage and hitbox info from dantarion's data:

1. BEGIN samus
2. **********
3. Jab1
4. Hits on frame: 3.0
5. Hitboxes end: 5.0
6. Max Hitbox Damage: 3.0
7. Max Hitbox BKB: 80
8. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 24.0
9. Max Hitbox Angle: 361
10. 
    
11. Jab2
12. Hits on frame: 6.0
13. Hitboxes end: 10.0
14. Max Hitbox Damage: 8.0
15. Max Hitbox BKB: 95
16. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 240.0
17. Max Hitbox Angle: 361
18. 
    
19. Dash Attack
20. Hits on frame: 10.0
21. Hitboxes end: 19.0
22. Max Hitbox Damage: 10.0
23. Max Hitbox BKB: 60
24. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 800.0
25. Max Hitbox Angle: 75
26. 
    
27. F-tilt (high)
28. Hits on frame: 8.0
29. Hitboxes end: 11.0
30. Max Hitbox Damage: 8.0
31. Max Hitbox BKB: 90
32. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 120.0
33. Max Hitbox Angle: 361
34. 
    
35. F-tilt (normal)
36. Hits on frame: 8.0
37. Hitboxes end: 11.0
38. Max Hitbox Damage: 7.0
39. Max Hitbox BKB: 90
40. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 105.0
41. Max Hitbox Angle: 361
42. 
    
43. F-tilt (low)
44. Hits on frame: 8.0
45. Hitboxes end: 11.0
46. Max Hitbox Damage: 8.0
47. Max Hitbox BKB: 90
48. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 120.0
49. Max Hitbox Angle: 361
50. 
    
51. U-tilt
52. Hits on frame: 15.0
53. Hitboxes end: 19.0
54. Max Hitbox Damage: 13.0
55. Max Hitbox BKB: 100
56. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 520.0
57. Max Hitbox Angle: 270
58. 
    
59. D-tilt
60. Hits on frame: 6.0
61. Hitboxes end: 9.0
62. Max Hitbox Damage: 12.0
63. Max Hitbox BKB: 48
64. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 960.0
65. Max Hitbox Angle: 80
66. 
    
67. F-smash release (high)
68. Hits on frame: 10.0
69. Hitboxes end: 12.0
70. Max Hitbox Damage: 15.0
71. Max Hitbox BKB: 100
72. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 600.0
73. Max Hitbox Angle: 361
74. 
    
75. F-smash release (normal)
76. Hits on frame: 10.0
77. Hitboxes end: 12.0
78. Max Hitbox Damage: 14.0
79. Max Hitbox BKB: 100
80. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 560.0
81. Max Hitbox Angle: 361
82. 
    
83. F-smash release (low)
84. Hits on frame: 10.0
85. Hitboxes end: 12.0
86. Max Hitbox Damage: 13.5
87. Max Hitbox BKB: 100
88. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 540.0
89. Max Hitbox Angle: 361
90. 
    
91. U-smash release
92. Hits on frame: 11.0
93. Hitboxes end: 29.0
94. Max Hitbox Damage: 6.0
95. Max Hitbox BKB: 135
96. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 300.0
97. Max Hitbox Angle: 80
98. 
    
99. D-smash release
100. Hits on frame: 9.0
101. Hitboxes end: 19.0
102. Max Hitbox Damage: 12.0
103. Max Hitbox BKB: 48
104. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 840.0
105. Max Hitbox Angle: 31
106. 
     
107. Nair
108. Hits on frame: 8.0
109. Hitboxes end: 23.0
110. Max Hitbox Damage: 8.0
111. Max Hitbox BKB: 100
112. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 320.0
113. Max Hitbox Angle: 32
114. 
     
115. Fair
116. Hits on frame: 6.0
117. Hitboxes end: 20.0
118. Max Hitbox Damage: 5.0
119. Max Hitbox BKB: 140
120. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 200.0
121. Max Hitbox Angle: 361
122. 
     
123. Bair
124. Hits on frame: 9.0
125. Hitboxes end: 15.0
126. Max Hitbox Damage: 14.0
127. Max Hitbox BKB: 98
128. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 588.0
129. Max Hitbox Angle: 361
130. 
     
131. Uair
132. Hits on frame: 5.0
133. Hitboxes end: 13.0
134. Max Hitbox Damage: 4.0
135. Max Hitbox BKB: 160
136. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 160.0
137. Max Hitbox Angle: 70
138. 
     
139. Dair
140. Hits on frame: 17.0
141. Hitboxes end: 24.0
142. Max Hitbox Damage: 14.0
143. Max Hitbox BKB: 85
144. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 350.0
145. Max Hitbox Angle: 270
146. 
     
147. Pummel
148. Hits on frame: 3.0
149. Hitboxes end: 4.0
150. Max Hitbox Damage: 1.2
151. Max Hitbox BKB: 100
152. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 0.0
153. Max Hitbox Angle: 361
154. 
     
155. F-throw
156. Hits on frame: 0.0
157. Hitboxes end: 0.0
158. Max Hitbox Damage: 9.0
159. Max Hitbox BKB: 55
160. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 0
161. Max Hitbox Angle: 42
162. 
     
163. B-throw
164. Hits on frame: 0.0
165. Hitboxes end: 0.0
166. Max Hitbox Damage: 8.0
167. Max Hitbox BKB: 55
168. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 0
169. Max Hitbox Angle: 40
170. 
     
171. U-throw
172. Hits on frame: 14.0
173. Hitboxes end: 16.0
174. Max Hitbox Damage: 4.0
175. Max Hitbox BKB: 70
176. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 0
177. Max Hitbox Angle: 90
178. 
     
179. D-throw
180. Hits on frame: 0.0
181. Hitboxes end: 0.0
182. Max Hitbox Damage: 6.0
183. Max Hitbox BKB: 50
184. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 0
185. Max Hitbox Angle: 80
186. 
     
187. 
     
188. 
     
189. 
     
190. 
     
191. 
     
192. unknown substate 0x23e
193. Hits on frame: 5.0
194. Hitboxes end: 13.0
195. Max Hitbox Damage: 2.0
196. Extra Shield Damage: 3
197. Max Hitbox BKB: 100
198. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 0.0
199. Max Hitbox Angle: 95
200. 
     
201. unknown substate 0x23f
202. Hits on frame: 5.0
203. Hitboxes end: 12.0
204. Max Hitbox Damage: 5.0
205. Extra Shield Damage: 3
206. Max Hitbox BKB: 110
207. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 400.0
208. Max Hitbox Angle: 40
209. 
     
210. unknown substate 0x240
211. Hits on frame: 5.0
212. Hitboxes end: 18.0
213. Max Hitbox Damage: 9.0
214. Max Hitbox BKB: 100
215. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 810.0
216. Max Hitbox Angle: 70
217. 
     
218. unknown substate 0x242
219. Hits on frame: 5.0
220. Hitboxes end: 11.0
221. Max Hitbox Damage: 1.0
222. Extra Shield Damage: 3
223. Max Hitbox BKB: 0
224. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 25.0
225. Max Hitbox Angle: 140
226. 
     
227. unknown substate 0x243
228. Hits on frame: 5.0
229. Hitboxes end: 12.0
230. Max Hitbox Damage: 5.0
231. Extra Shield Damage: 3
232. Max Hitbox BKB: 110
233. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 400.0
234. Max Hitbox Angle: 40
235. 
     
236. unknown substate 0x244
237. Hits on frame: 5.0
238. Hitboxes end: 38.0
239. Max Hitbox Damage: 7.0
240. Max Hitbox BKB: 100
241. Max Hitbox KBG * Damage: 630.0
242. Max Hitbox Angle: 70
243. 
     
244. **********
245. END samus

source: http://pastebin.com/PzTjdtx8

 

[Xyro77]

Cool I'll add that to the OP and credit you, Rohins.

 

[Xyro77]

Rohins frame data added to OP as well as my video of Zair stage abuse basics. Ill post my video here too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oabC4iZ6fQ8

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Just thought I'd throw this out there: Bomb Jumping is less effective than just continuing towards the stage and using the Bomb to slow down her fall. Didn't know if this was known or not.

 

[Savez]

Just thought I'd throw this out there: Bomb Jumping is less effective than just continuing towards the stage and using the Bomb to slow down her fall. Didn't know if this was known or not.

Well known but don't let this discourage yourself from contributing!

 

[leiraD]

Well known but don't let this discourage yourself from contributing!

Agreed.

 

[Gamegenie222]

Oh damn Xyro is back on the Samus train hype.

Also quick question for all of you Samus mains does anyone know what frame the charge shot at full power comes out at? I wanna know if a buddy of mine can use as a block punisher with perfect shielding reliably?

 

[Xyro77]

Oh damn Xyro is back on the Samus train hype.

Also quick question for all of you Samus mains does anyone know what frame the charge shot at full power comes out at? I wanna know if a buddy of mine can use as a block punisher with perfect shielding reliably?

if he powershield your charge shot at point blank rage he will most def be able to punish you.

 

[Gamegenie222]

if he powershield your charge shot at point blank rage he will most def be able to punish you.

OK thanks for that and what about some medium range situations cause I wanna know if my friend can use it to punish some villager attacks on shield and he got furious with the match?

 

[Xyro77]

It really depends. If you power shield charge shot at medium range and you are a slow character you may not be able to punish. But villager might with his fair (the sling shot).


In other news, Samus users, let's work on this! Air dodge cancel https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yv-O30LOvFY

 

[leiraD]

Can't Samus already cancel air dodge by zair?

Well... I guess its not the same because this dodge cancel give you a few more options in regards to what moves you can do immediately afterward.

Also, it seems that the even though its been dubbed "cancelling ," its more about retaining momentum while dodging and moving forward.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Yes you can cancel with a zair but you keep the end lag. With this you don't.