The Heavenly Scriptures:A Pit Q&A thread!

[Petuh]

What happened to the Angel Ring chat room? Did it get deleted?

 

[Panix]

did anyone know if you Up-B near diddys barrel recovery you make diddy fast fall? really useful because it gets you back onto the edge and diddy needs to charge his recovery which gives him less time.

Just wondering

 

[Sniper X]

er...i keep having a lot of landing lag when i'm trying to punish someone juggling me. For example the other day a link was trying to juggle me with his u-smash so i air-dodged that but when i hit the ground i couldn't do anything due to landing lag until after his smash was over so i missed my chance.

Any tips?

 

[teh_pwns_the]

er...i keep having a lot of landing lag when i'm trying to punish someone juggling me. For example the other day a link was trying to juggle me with his u-smash so i air-dodged that but when i hit the ground i couldn't do anything due to landing lag until after his smash was over so i missed my chance.

Any tips?

dont fast fall into it if thats what you are doing
help any?

 

[Sniper X]

i'm actually not fast falling but that's just because i want more time to space my airdodge. Does fast falling cause landing lag or something?

 

[teh_pwns_the]

i'm actually not fast falling but that's just because i want more time to space my airdodge. Does fast falling cause landing lag or something?

i believe so, uhm my only other solution is come at him from the air from the side and hit him with a fair or bair

or if your too worried about getting hit just shoot an arrow sometimes a gauranteed 3-5% is better then eating a Usmash because you timed or spaced it wrong

The other option is to do a WoI stall in the air to bait his Usmash and then punish him when hes done which is always fun haha

 

[Sniper X]

ah. thanks for the tips. I'll try some of them :D

 

[Ax00x0]

I had a question about arrow looping. i've always been able to do it and even use it effectivelysometimes at tournies, but after seeing Sage and Admiral Bowser's videos...wow. How do you do that? Like, watching the videos help, but it's be nice to see a camera pointed at their hands while doing this, too, because I can't get the looping nearly that good. How do you flick the joystick like that? Mostly, my Pit will always duck and move around while looping, but Sage and Bowser can do it while Pit is stationary and even doing stuff like Angel Rings. I was just wondering how is this achomplished...do you make swift, hard bankingtilts on the joystick, or slow circular ones, or what? Even the arrow raining was impressive.

I've always wanted to know how to get better, but I realize it's hard to explain. Is it like, fire to the right,, sharply rotate from the bottom to the stop, etc., or what?

 

[Suyon]

When DI'ing which moves is the best to use for momentum cancel? I use fair, bair, or dair.

 

[SkyRay]

I know that Fair is the best for momentum canceling since it pulls out the fastest.

 

[Sniper X]

I had a question about arrow looping. i've always been able to do it and even use it effectivelysometimes at tournies, but after seeing Sage and Admiral Bowser's videos...wow. How do you do that? Like, watching the videos help, but it's be nice to see a camera pointed at their hands while doing this, too, because I can't get the looping nearly that good. How do you flick the joystick like that? Mostly, my Pit will always duck and move around while looping, but Sage and Bowser can do it while Pit is stationary and even doing stuff like Angel Rings. I was just wondering how is this achomplished...do you make swift, hard bankingtilts on the joystick, or slow circular ones, or what? Even the arrow raining was impressive.

I've always wanted to know how to get better, but I realize it's hard to explain. Is it like, fire to the right,, sharply rotate from the bottom to the stop, etc., or what?

I was actually practicing one of those moves just the other day. The one where he shot up three arrows and then brought them down on a guy trapped in his side-b. Basically how it works is if you shoot an arrow straight up it will go infinitely unless you direct it off to the sides and out past the kill zones.

So what the Admiral did (as best as i can tell cause this is what i did ) is he shot two arrows straight up and then a third one and used the time where pit doesn't move after firing an arrow to direct it to curve it to the left(which also curves the two arrows shot first). Then he side b'd into angel ring which allows you to direct the arrows while remaining stationary as long as you keep mashing b. This move also directed ALL THREE arrows to the right after which he moved the joystick down to bring the arrows back from above the stage and onto his target.

It's mostly knowing exactly how long you need to hold left initially and how much of a distance you need to go right before activating your AR. It's rather difficult (hence why i've only managed to do it CORRECTLY once so far)

 

[phi1ny3]

What are pit's worst matchups? My younger brother is interested in picking him up.

 

[Seiya7]

hm...off the top of my head i would say Marth, G&W, Metaknight, n Wario

 

[Cherry64]

hm...off the top of my head i would say Marth, G&W, Metaknight, n Wario

Marth yes Meta no. Meta is like a 60-40 for Meta, it's not exactly terrible, I'm sure there are worse amtch-ups than that lol, and if there aren't then SWEET!

 

[phi1ny3]

If that's so, what would be a good secondary besides MK for covering up these weaknesses?

 

[yummynbeefy]

diddy and snake are generally considered the best secondaries for pit

wario isnt bad either though considering his now close to 50/50 matchup on meta and i belivee a 45-55 (or other way around) for gw

marth really isnt much of a problem for pit generally

 

[teh_pwns_the]

Marth yes Meta no. Meta is like a 60-40 for Meta, it's not exactly terrible, I'm sure there are worse amtch-ups than that lol, and if there aren't then SWEET!

im pretty sure meta is considered pits worst, pits fairly balanced, not so many great matchups and very few bad ones, its pretty much even stevens normally ranging from 55-45 to 45-55

 

[Cherry64]

Wow, Good on Pit then lol.
at least it isn't anything atrocious. Like samus versus meta, or samus versus falco. Gotta love Pit as a secondary lol.

 

[teh_pwns_the]

so folks im thinking about making a when to guide for arrow looping since it is so often discussed some say its worthless some say its the best, its somewhere in between sooooo, what od you guys think?

 

[edwen]

Can be useful can be useless mainly depends on whats going on and the stage.

 

[Cherry64]

Eh I dunno, the only times I use it are when the enemy is off stage.

When do you fire off the second arrow. you know when your arrow looping 1 arrow and then you fire another one, when do you do that?

 

[Afropony]

so folks im thinking about making a when to guide for arrow looping since it is so often discussed some say its worthless some say its the best, its somewhere in between sooooo, what od you guys think?

But we already have a big guide about arrow looping somewhere around here and IMO we only need one.
The only time we get more of them is when a noob doesn't use the search function.

What are you going to add to the old arrow looping thread if you make a new one?

 

[Cherry64]

Lolz I don't think he's seen the old one, and neither have I for that matter

 

[teh_pwns_the]

Lolz I don't think he's seen the old one, and neither have I for that matter

ive seen it, it doesnt tell you much except the 4 different types of loops, all of which are kinda worthless except for the standard loop

But we already have a big guide about arrow looping somewhere around here and IMO we only need one.
The only time we get more of them is when a noob doesn't use the search function.

What are you going to add to the old arrow looping thread if you make a new one?

yea yea i knwo there is one but it leaves out the vital WHEN TO loop rather then shoot i believe, * i dunno too lazy to go dig it up * and if it does tell you when to loop, it obviously doesnt do a great job or else we still wouldnt be having the argument about whether or not looping is useful

so folks im thinking about making a WHEN TO guide for arrow looping since it is so often discussed some say its worthless some say its the best, its somewhere in between sooooo, what od you guys think?

just wondering if you guys saw that part, im not interested in teaching everyone to loop, because frankly if you cant already do that you are either a scrub or have finger seizures periodically... i am interested in telling people when to loop vs when to fire another arrow

 

[Arzengel]

Ok something weird happened. Yeserday i battled a friend's Link. He was near the edge (Final destination right-hand corner), but he jumped, he was behind me now (still both touching the edge).

Later i used angel ring, sorta hit him but my Pit went past him, instantaneusly for some reason Link was pushed down, like a spike or something. What could be a reasonable explanaton for this?

 

[Coffee™]

yea yea i knwo there is one but it leaves out the vital WHEN TO loop rather then shoot i believe, * i dunno too lazy to go dig it up * and if it does tell you when to loop, it obviously doesnt do a great job or else we still wouldnt be having the argument about whether or not looping is useful

I don't think you get it. Looping is fun and all but there is just no point. You mention you want to make a guide about "when to loop" but I am 150% certain that any situation you name I can give you at least 3 options that would be better than looping an arrow aside from random crap on like PS1.

did anyone know if you Up-B near diddys barrel recovery you make diddy fast fall? really useful because it gets you back onto the edge and diddy needs to charge his recovery which gives him less time.

Just wondering

Pit players should pay more attention to posts like the above one instead of trying to figure out ways to do stuff thats impratical.

 

[KY_Des]

Good find Panix. I'm gonna try this out. Should work better than using MS. I hardly ever reflect diddy's upB.

Arzengel, he prolly jus DI'ed realllly badly.

I'd prolly say Meta isn't any worse than Marth. GnW isn't too hard once you learn the matchup. Pit vs GnW are jus really long, boring matches. Falco's pretty bad too. Is there a Pit vs Falco matchup thread somewhere that I can look at?

 

[teh_pwns_the]

I don't think you get it. Looping is fun and all but there is just no point. You mention you want to make a guide about "when to loop" but I am 150% certain that any situation you name I can give you at least 3 options that would be better than looping an arrow aside from random crap on like PS1.

heaven forbid people have opinions, sorry mr. anti-loop nazi but not everyone shares your opinion. Until you can show me any facts on the subject it is up to opinion as to what is useful and what is not. In my experience there are certain times where it is useful and certain times when it is not

looping is a defensive maneuver used for when the opponent is approaching from about 45 degrees and is just inside what a normal curved arrow would hit

1) you could go up for an aerial which would be dodged most likely and if the person is a char like meta or GnW, you are likely going to eat an attack
2) you could hop an arrow, which would be airdodged, and you are back to square one
3) you could wait for them to land and then try to punish but this is a waste of an opportunity

or you could loop an arrow which will give you a more positive outcome

guess i dont need a guide after all, cause that about summed it up

 

[Coffee™]

heaven forbid people have opinions, sorry mr. anti-loop nazi but not everyone shares your opinion. Until you can show me any facts on the subject it is up to opinion as to what is useful and what is not. In my experience there are certain times where it is useful and certain times when it is not

looping is a defensive maneuver used for when the opponent is approaching from about 45 degrees and is just inside what a normal curved arrow would hit

1) you could go up for an aerial which would be dodged most likely and if the person is a char like meta or GnW, you are likely going to eat an attack
2) you could hop an arrow, which would be airdodged, and you are back to square one
3) you could wait for them to land and then try to punish but this is a waste of an opportunity

or you could loop an arrow which will give you a more positive outcome

guess i dont need a guide after all, cause that about summed it up

I like being an anti loop nazi if it'll get some ppl to stop doing it so they'll eventually get better. Its not really anything about opinion either. I can provide enough factual evidence to show you that your claim of "Arrow looping is useful" is not actually correct.

Until you can show me any facts on the subject it is up to opinion as to what is useful and what is not. In my experience there are certain times where it is useful and certain times when it is not

This is why I said you could post why /where you think Arrow Looping is useful and I will reply as to why I think its wrong.

As for your situation. You can run back and shoot two arrows at the time it takes you to loop one arrow which btw is easier for the person to airdodge similarly to how you say they can airdodge your aerial or one single arrow.

If you loop vs almost any character they will have enough time to fast fall their recovery and laugh at you while you're still looping then proceed to smash you or something. Tbh every single thing you mentioned is a better alternative to looping an arrow which at most will do 5% when you could have otherwise ended up doing much more through either situation.

I'd prolly say Meta isn't any worse than Marth. GnW isn't too hard once you learn the matchup. Pit vs GnW are jus really long, boring matches. Falco's pretty bad too. Is there a Pit vs Falco matchup thread somewhere that I can look at?

Falco ain't that bad just really annoying, but here is a matchup thread for him.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7413746#post7413746

 

[teh_pwns_the]

haha i think youre missing the follow up part, yea the looped arrow does 5 damage, but thats not the real damager, the arrow forces them to react and if youuse the spacing i mentioned they should be pretty close to you when it comes back around

so they react to the arrow, then you punish their reaction

 

[edwen]

Arrow looping has it uses as I have said. Its best use is for mindgames which noone should really question that.

 

[teh_pwns_the]

Arrow looping has it uses as I have said. Its best use is for mindgames which noone should really question that.

... no no no no no
arrow looping is not used for mindgames haha, everyone knows whats happening when pit does his little arrow dance its not surprising at all

youre lucky i saw this before R@vyn, he would have eaten your face, this has been brought up many times before and has been shot down jsut as many times, most of the time by him haha

 

[Coffee™]

haha i think youre missing the follow up part, yea the looped arrow does 5 damage, but thats not the real damager, the arrow forces them to react and if youuse the spacing i mentioned they should be pretty close to you when it comes back around

so they react to the arrow, then you punish their reaction

The time it takes you to loop an arrow your opponent can already take to the offensive. You would already be better off trying to punish their action as you approach them at that 45 degree angle or w/e it is. Think about it like this. It takes approximately 2.5 seconds to fully loop an arrow and then aim it at your opponent. Then you still have to think about punishing their reaction to it.

In that 2.5 seconds you can do the exact same thing you could have done before you looped an arrow and chances are you're opponent would still be in the air, a more vunerable area than on the ground where they would be if you looped an arrow as you'd have a lot less options then.

... no no no no no
arrow looping is not used for mindgames haha, everyone knows whats happening when pit does his little arrow dance its not surprising at all

youre lucky i saw this before R@vyn, he would have eaten your face, this has been brought up many times before and has been shot down jsut as many times, most of the time by him haha

Nah, I just "eat your face" cuz you're adamant about proving that your opinion is correct when factual evidence states otherwise.

 

[teh_pwns_the]

haha oh silly R@vyn i think i debate with you more then anyone, even IRL

The time it takes you to loop an arrow your opponent can already take to the offensive. You would already be better off trying to punish their action as you approach them at that 45 degree angle or w/e it is. Think about it like this. It takes approximately 2.5 seconds to fully loop an arrow and then aim it at your opponent. Then you still have to think about punishing their reaction to it.

You should know by now that the only person who is rewarded in brawl by taking the offensive is metaknight, so the defensive is normally the right move, arrow looping is a defensive maneuver for when your opponent is approaching (from the conditions given before)

its all about the follow up, thats what makes looping worth it, because your opponent can only do three things on the ground

1) Shield the arrow - get grabbed
2) Spotdodge the arrow - get punished with whatever after they are done spotdodging
3) Take the arrow - get punished with whatever
4) reflector if they have one - only possible negative situation and most of the time it will leave them open

think of it as shooting an arrow that has a longer start-up time, but no cool down at all

oh and in the air they can do the following

1) Airdodge the arrow - eat an aerial
2) Take the arrow - eat an aerial
3) Fast Fall - get hit with almost any attack
4) Reflector - same as on ground, only here you can get a better safer angle (coming from below)

In that 2.5 seconds you can do the exact same thing you could have done before you looped an arrow and chances are you're opponent would still be in the air, a more vunerable area than on the ground where they would be if you looped an arrow as you'd have a lot less options then.

its true they might go to the ground and retreat, but there are certain chars who nearly always approach from the air, GnW comes to mind so they will actually stay up in the air rather then land and attempt a ground attack on you.

if nothing else it forces your opponent to back off a bit, then they still have to deal with an arrow coming at them, maybe two if youre into that kinda thing haha

Nah, I just "eat your face" cuz you're adamant about proving that your opinion is correct when factual evidence states otherwise.

haha oh i feel so special now, we are exclusive as to who's face we eat haha

there is no factual evidence that states otherwise, or else i wouldnt keep debating

 

[Coffee™]

You should know by now that the only person who is rewarded in brawl by taking the offensive is metaknight, so the defensive is normally the right move, arrow looping is a defensive maneuver for when your opponent is approaching (from the conditions given before)

Your opponent is at a 45 degree angle AND approaching you and you really have time to sit around looping arrows as some kind of defense are you kidding me lol? Have you ever heard of I dunno, running back and shooting an arrow? Idk, sounds a lot less punishable to me, but nah I'm silly so that obviously is the worse choice between the two lol.

its all about the follow up, thats what makes looping worth it, because your opponent can only do three things on the ground

1) Shield the arrow - get grabbed
2) Spotdodge the arrow - get punished with whatever after they are done spotdodging
3) Take the arrow - get punished with whatever
4) reflector if they have one - only possible negative situation and most of the time it will leave them open

This is assuming you have time to loop an arrow to begin with and chances are if you have time to loop it you could have retaliated twice with what ever attack.

haha oh i feel so special now, we are exclusive as to who's face we eat haha

You have no reason to feel "special" unless you're ******** or something.

there is no factual evidence that states otherwise, or else i wouldnt keep debating

No, you're just being ignorant towards it.

I'm not about to sit here debating this with you forever, all I'm going to say is that if you are arrow looping against people and it's working, then your opponents are bad. Its as simple as that.

 

[smasher1206]

hey im starting to use pit
and i need some tips
to know what to use during battle
what i should be careful using

 

[Lezard]

you will find all your answer here
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=181610

 

[Cherry64]

Just to put a smile on your face R@vyn what's the BEST possible move to use when getting D smashed by Zamus??

Can you arrow loop while stunned??
If you can then there's a reason to use it.

 

[edwen]

Yes you can even loop arrows if you are dead.

 

[teh_pwns_the]

Your opponent is at a 45 degree angle AND approaching you and you really have time to sit around looping arrows as some kind of defense are you kidding me lol? Have you ever heard of I dunno, running back and shooting an arrow? Idk, sounds a lot less punishable to me, but nah I'm silly so that obviously is the worse choice between the two lol.

haha no your silly because we always end up arguing no matter what, no matter how trivial the point is neither of us want to give any ground, which i respect you for, but also kinda hate you for haha

the spacing i mentioned is designed to make sure that they will be near you right when your arrow comes back around, near you but just not close enough to hit you yet, so basiclaly close enough for a follow up from the arrow

This is assuming you have time to loop an arrow to begin with and chances are if you have time to loop it you could have retaliated twice with what ever attack.

those two other attacks that you could have gone with are dodgeable, arrow looping, is a guarantee if you do it right

You have no reason to feel "special" unless you're ******** or something.

ehh i expected a better insult then that
(on a side note i have a 4.2 for this semester right now haha, really pumped)

No, you're just being ignorant towards it.

I'm not about to sit here debating this with you forever, all I'm going to say is that if you are arrow looping against people and it's working, then your opponents are bad. Its as simple as that.

no there isnt any factual evidence that im aware of
if there is could you please link it to me

as i said before it is nearly impossible to get factual evidence on a tactic or strategy, other then looking at the outcomes of it to see if it worked, and then you still have to account for all variables

ive noticed whenever you cant think of anything more to say you resort to, "you must suck" or "the people you play with must suck" .... kinda lame of you, but oh well