The Ike Match-Up Ratio Topic

[Conviction]

Blame Bungie for making the Elites Evade and not Barrel Roll in Reach.

Lol we are filing complaints

 

[Ussi]

Weight it like this:

1.5 times:
Good placing Ikes

Normal weight:
Tournament going/Knowledgeable Ikes

.5 weight:
Ikes who haven't contributed too much

 

[Watkins]

These are all assuming your opponent knows the matchup. I feel Ike can beat any equally skilled player who doesn't know Ike's capabilities mainly because there's very few efficient/good Ike's out there, and there are so many different Ike playstyles and tricksies that often success can rely on surprising your opponent and playing on their ignorance of your abilities.

I gots some insomnia so here's all my very brief summaries on my experiences and opinions with the matchups:

35-65, closer to 40-60 on neutrals if you know how to nair properly.

45-55 Jabs, Dash Attack, and upair/upsmash mixups give most snakes who are normally comfortable with their weight and close range game a hard time

40-60 I feel Ike will have trouble with a quick, efficient Diddy

3-7 Faster jabs, chaingrabs and lasers, brutal.

55-45 The ease in which Ike can kill a slacking Nana and his ability to space probably give him a little advantage, but it's still close.

40-60 In Marth's favor a bit, but he's so light that if you play smart it's not a lost cause. Just have to be careful with jabs.

50-50 I think this is a pretty even matchup, as both characters can space each other very well. Ike has an effective grab release, but Wario has the advantage on the counterpick stages that hurt Ike's recovery.

40-60 It's hard, but very possible. Life is so hard for D3 if he gets sent off that stage because of the following Aether harassment and potential spikes. The chaingrab gives him the advantage here, but his lack of a safe kill move on Ike makes it not too awful.

45-55 Probably a little bit in Pika's favor. Against campy efficient Pikachu's I find it difficult to get to a Pikachu who knows how to use his lightning and quick attacks.

35-65 Yeah, this is definitely one of Ike's roughest matchups. Nair and Dash attack spacing and surprises might get you some kill setups, but if the Olimar is any kind of fast learner...

40-60 Lucario makes aethering very difficult, besides that this matchup isnt too bad as long as you don't let him get too angry. For characters like Ike, this is a fairly easy task. Aether wrecks his recovery too.

50-50 I think this is fairly even. Both characters can kill early, and both have disjointed hitboxes to space with.

50-50 Another about even MU if both players play smart. Again, aether can make recovery hard for pit. If he goes below the stage, he'll get spiked, and if he flies over he's susceptible to upair and usmash mixups. Arrows can be nearly as painful for Ike.

40-60 So many projectiles combined with his hookshot make approaching TL brutal for a slow character like Ike. Because of his floatiness, it's also not as easy to jab combo him. Still, if you don't play sloppy you can still get inside and get some damage in, and Ike has a lot easier time killing TL than vice versa.

40-60 Having played both Patg and Dazwa's ZSS, I'd say this is a little in ZSS's favor and a rare situation where the Ike might actually know less about the matchup than his opponent. Protop: Powershield approach when possible, ZSS knows how to shut down a lot of Ike's aerial approaches. Also, watch tether hogs.

45-55 One of the few characters I feel that can reliably gimp Ike. On stage things might be a little in Ike's favor, but with chaingrabs and an offstage battle with a Kirby who knows how to use his bair properly, it might be a little in Kirby's favor.

50-50 I've played this matchup to death. While Rob lacks safe kill moves vs Ike, he can gimp decently well and with smart top and laser usage make Ike's life hard. However, Ike can gimp Rob like crazy. If he up b's below the stage you can just spike him out of it, and if he tries to go over you you simply aether him down. If he uses all his fuel to get WAY above you, it can be a stock if you manage to knock him right back off again when he lands. Space.

50-50 DK's cargo throw gimp sucks, but most DK's mess it up anyway and try to go for it when a stage spike would be more likely to kill. Silly DK's. While DK has range and killpower to match Ike's, Ike still has priority on his side. Also, an Ike who knows how to aether spike properly will gimp a DK nearly everytime he's offstage. The easily way to do it I've found is to jump at the ledge, air dodge past it, then reverse Aether. You have to time it right, but the timing isn't that strict.


60-40 Peach has a brutal time killing Ike. Ike has a fairly easy time killing Peach. Pretty basic matchup, powershield turnips.

40-60 I think this is a really hard matchup for Ike (never try to play it on wifi especially <_<) Fox's speed makes it hard to keep up, and a misspaced fair at kill percents means an instant upsmash death. You can't afford too many mistakes here, and a fox who is good with his reflector gimps will wreck your day anytime you fall offstage.

65-35 Ike owns Luigi pretty hard. Luigi has barely any tools to deal with Ike's range and priority, and since he's so slow in the air he can get sucked into a lot of Ike's long moves.

40-60 A fast wolf is hard to keep up with, but not as bad as Fox. It's easy to get careless and eat lasers and fsmashes and not think they mean much, but they add up fast and dsmash is stronger than you may think. Be careful once you get inside of the lasers, airdodging into wolf often doesn't work because of his melee blaster attack and quick dsmash. Jab and Aether gimps can make the win happen though.

:shiek: N/A, never played a good Shiek.
60-40: Charizard is so **** slow in the air it's easy to catch him with things, as well as gimp him. Squirtle is quick and a bit hard to hit at times but we do have a sort of grab release on him I believe and he dies easy. I usually have the hardest time with good Ivysaurs... but even then it's not too bad.

50-50 Yeah it's probably about even... but I have to give a slight advantage to Sonic since he can easily take Ike to one of his bad recovery stages like Frigate. Frigate's slants make it hard to space and the right side having no ledge make spring gimps pretty effective. Of course, you could just ban Frigate. Srsly tho, watch out for spring gimps.

60-40 I believe this is in Ike's favor. Ness lacks killpower besides his grab, and with his short grab range trying to get through your jab wall that makes it hard on him. In the air you win as well. Offstage, Ness has a harder time recovering than you. Just watch out for PK fire, that sets up a lot of Ness's moves.

60-40 I think this is a little in Ike's favor for the same reason as DK. So easy to Aether gimp, plus he's so fat you can get a lot of jab combo % on him.

50-50 I believe Lucas is far harder than Ness for Ike. If you're not careful and smart about recovering, PK thunder will edgeguard the hell out of you. Unlike Ness, Lucas has the fast, powerful, and fairly safe kill moves to take out Ike. Neither can gimp each other very well, and their onstage game is pretty even too. I can't find myself giving an advantage to either one.

Ike dittos are crazy, it seems more like rock, paper, scissors than anything. One Ike can beat another Ike who loses to another Ike that the first Ike completely destroyed. The good thing about them however is that they can teach you to adjust your playstyle when needed. Stubborn Ike players only get worse.

55-45 I used to think this was all about Yoshi until I learned how to Dash attack properly. Swooping under eggs and knocking Yoshi off the stage seems to be a fairly common occurance now. Once an Ike learns to approach past the eggs, it's hard for Yoshi to deal with Ike. Ike can kinda gimp with aether here... kinda.

55-45 Fireball and fsmash... feels bad man. However, jabs and aether gimps feel good. Watch out for aether capes though, it can happen. A lot of Mario's try to go for it though and just end up eating damage, so it won't really happen unless you're being dumb and careless about it. But be aware....

60-40 He's got the speed and the gimping ability, but all your moves go through his and your jabs are better. Sorry Falc >B(

50-50 It can be hard to get through all of Samus's nonsense, but once you do life is good. She's kinda easy to spike, and she doesn't really have any good kill moves on you. She's so heavy though and her zair is amazing combined with missiles, so you really have to pay attention here and powershield accordingly.

65-35 Meh, Puff can kinda gimp Ike but she doesn't really have an answer to his Fair and to an extent nair. You can kill her easy, and her lack of an up b can often lead to spikes if she can't get past you to the stage quick enough.

60-40 I used to think this matchup was even, but between Dash attack and Ike's easier time killing than Zelda, I gotta give it to Ike. She simply can't really punish most of what he does.

65-35 Jabs, Aether gimps, Spikes... Link is so bad :<

65-35 An evil sandbag.

 

[TX7Killian]

Watkins' post looks nice =0 Here we go with my opinion:

60:40 Ike
Jab completely destroys CF's groundgame, imo. Falcon have some advantages on YI, but it's still winable for Ike. Easy to kill with usmash or ftilt

55:45 or 6:4 Weegee
Yea, I hate this Match-Up. I really don't know why I always loose against Weegees. Ike has range, so I think you have to use your range well against weegees. He can get out of jab cancels really early but which Ike would be so stupid and jab cancels against a so floaty character like weegee?lol

even.
Squirtle is faster than Ike, and hes much better in the air, but fair spacing works really good, imo. Jabs works also really good against squirtle. (His neutral B can gimp aether?) easy to kill

55:45 Ivy
If you don't know how to dodge Ivys side-b it destroys Ike =0 Easy to gimp and to kill. Stages like frigate are really good for this Match-Up and I feel on this stage just like 60:40 Ike lmao

60:40 Ike
Fat dragon =0 Easy to jab, a bit harder to kill. But I think eruption works really good on charizard.

70:30 MKgay
What to say? It's Mk lol

60:40 Falco
Laser spam, CG's, good jabs and faster than Ike. SH airdodge works good as an approach in this Match-Up. He's easy to jab or to kill and his recovery is also easy to gimp, but anyway it's in falco's favor.

60:40 Ike
If you can dodge the projectiles and space fairs good the Link cant do much against you.

even.
Sonic have some problems with plattforms, imo. FD is really good for him. He's fast but thats not even that bad. I always play slowely against Sonics

70:30 Marfz
Can get out of aether and jab with upb. So, what to say? Marf destroys Ike

60:40 Diddy
I personally like this Match-Up. Dunno why. Use the bananas in your favor and hold him offstage.

55:45 Ike
Kirby is easy to kill. recovery is easy to gimp. relatively easy to jab. I think Nair spacing works good (I always spaces nairs like **** against kirby)

60:40 Snake
Uhhh... I also like this match-up. Play defensive and give snake no sympathy. be prepared for grenade spam and dont get predictable.

55:45 Lucas
pk firez =0 He can get out of jab cancels with an uair. He's easy to kill with usmash. all you need to do is jabs, good spacing and shield the firez

70:30 DDD
Oh my... dont get grabbed. He can gimp aether soooo easily. you dont have much options against ddd. take BF and show him ya moves with jabz

55:45 DK
On some stages I feel this Match-Up like 50:50. Good DK's are hard to kill, they live so long... Options are, you jab him to the death or hold him offstage. Personally i like PS1 to fight against DK. Castle Siege is also a really good option in my opinion.

:shiek: 60:40 sheik
It's not even that bad like I heard. Needles gimp aether, he can get out of jab with good DI relatively fast but he's easy to kill. Grab him, hold him offstage and finish him with usmash

55:45 Lucario
Dodge the Neutral B and dont get offstage. Easy to kill. I think if youdont know the match-up he can really destroys you. Lucarios like lee martin are just ****

60:40 Ike


55:45 ROB

60:40 Ike

even.

55:45 Yoshi

60:40 Ike

Dittos =0 even? dunno

55:45 Samus

even.

60:40 ICs

60:40 Gay&watch

55:45 Pika

even.

60:40 Pit

60:40 Ike

even.

even.

55:45 Fox

55:45 Ike

60:40 Tink

65:35 Oli


So, yea, don't flame me lmao just my opinion of ike's matchups.

E// lol, forgot description

 

[Nysyarc]

Weight it like this:

1.5 times:
Good placing Ikes

Normal weight:
Tournament going/Knowledgeable Ikes

.5 weight:
Ikes who haven't contributed too much

The problem with weighting like that is that it makes it 10x harder to do, and it really wouldn't make much difference in the end result. All of the match-up ratios given are pretty close to each other. In fact the only bit of data that's way off the average is Bored's 0-100 for MK.

If we were going to weight it though, it would have to be counting it 3 times for good placing, 2 times for knowledgeable and only once for non-contributers. Basically I would end up with a huge amount of data because I would be averaging in the data from good placing players 3 times, etc... It'd be impossible to do it 1.5 times for ratios, so it would have to be whole numbers.

It's up to you guys, I'll weight it if you want but I think it would just be a lot easier, faster, and not too much different to just take all the given data equally.

Edit: Oh god, TX7 your input is going to take forever to get down... please try and keep all match-up ratios in tier list order (quote the template from the OP). Yours doesn't even seem to have any discernible pattern, at least San did it in match-up difficulty order @_@

 

[Teh Brettster]

The OP specifically mentioned veterans of the boards. I thought veterans were the only ones being considered, which would take way the need to weight opinions. =P

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Nys, just go for the vets/regulars dude.

I'm sorry to everyone else: but that's what I was aiming for in this topic.

 

[Kimchi]

: (65:35 - 70:30) I have an unbelievable amount of experience in this matchup as I live in one of the most MK-infested regions. If the MK knows the matchup, it gets pretty difficult because MK can shut out most of our options pretty easily. However, as long as Ike maintains his composure and spaces Nairs and Jabs, Ike can win. Surprisingly, many MKs like to play similarly in that they like to punish with the same moves given a certain scenario. It's the players who have different styles such as (M2K, Shadow, Dojo, etc) that set them apart from all the MKs. Taking MK to neutrals as your counterpick is recommended as MK is very good on many counterpicks that Ike likes to take other characters to.
: (60:40) One of my favorite matchups and matchup I am very knowledged in, Snake can pose problems for Ike depending on how he approaches the matchup. If Snake camps, it will be hard for Ike to approach, especially on FD. Make sure to find openings outside of Snake's camp game. He's vulnerable offstage and in the air so try to get him there.
: (55:45) Item proficient Ikes will have an easier time in this matchup. Analyze how Diddy places his bananas instead of just approaching like a madman. Think about what will happen if you fall into those said approaches. You'll have an easier time dealing with the matchup if you think about what Diddy can do with his bananas. Try not to use Fair too much in this matchup.
(65:35) Hard matchup for Ike obviously. Play patient, don't rush the approach. That's what Falco wants you to do so he can punish your mistakes. It's better to get hit by the laser continuously (which I doubt will happen anyway given that you powershield correctly) than rushing in and getting hit multiple times until you're at kill percentage.
(50:50) Don't get grabbed. Space everything.
(65:35) This is another hard matchup. Everything that Ike tries to do against Marth can be punished by a powershield by the Marth and Dancing Blade. Some might say rolling sucks in general, but against Marth, I think rolling behind Marth and jabbing is the best way to rack up damage. You shouldn't abuse rolling, but use it in several situations to get the jabs in. Otherwise, it's VERY difficult to approach Marth.
(55:45) This is a pretty weird matchup. Most of Wario's approaches are pretty good against Ike and it's hard to know what to do. If Wario tries to time you out, it gets pretty frustrating and hard to deal with, but no matter what, the Ike should be patient and not rush in.
(60:40 - 65:35) Difficult matchup, but definitely doable. Nair isn't that great in this matchup, so your main spacing tool with definitely be Fair.
(50:50) Haven't had too much experience with this matchup, but have never lost to a Pikachu when I played one. Seems pretty even.
(65:35) (90:10 on Wi-Fi LOL!) Olimar is really hard to approach as his shield grab is **** good. The moment when you mess up your spacing is the moment when you will most likely lose. In my mind, I sometimes imagine playing an Olimar is like playing a D3, except Oli has better killing options and doesn't have a CG while the D3 has better recovery and safer options on block. Halberd imo is a pretty good counterpick against Oli.
(55:45) Powershield, punish. The staple aspects of Brawl you definitely need in this matchup.
(50:50) Camp with Fair in this matchup as you most of G&W's approach options are great. His Up + B can be a pain here for Ike, but as long as you space yourself with Fair, the matchup shouldn't be too hard.
(50:50) Pit can camp, Ike can kill. Who will win? Depends on whether Ike can get inside.
(60:40) Make sure you powershield everything and know what Toon Link can do with his projectiles. At earlier percentages (under 30% iirc), watch out for Toon Link's Dsmash as it can send you offstage. It's a nasty trick to take the early lead.
(60:40)
(50:50)
(45:55) Ike can handle this big guy easily given the fact that he doesn't try to be too aggressive against the ROB.
(45:55) This matchup isn't too bad for Ike. Ike can definitely hit just as hard as DK if not harder and jabs give DK a hard time. Just make sure you know how to recover if DK cargo throws you. If he throws you onto the lip of a stage, tech and Aether back. If he throws you out further from the stage, QD back onto the stage in the hopes that you get hit by DK's recovery because you won't make it back otherwise.
(55:45 - 50:50) This is a pretty annoying matchup, imo, but it shouldn't be too hard.
(50:50 - 55:45)
(45:55) Luigi is pretty easy to deal with but do be careful of his Fsmash.
(45:55) Wolf isn't too hard if you space yourself from him and deal with his awful ground game.
:shiek: (45:55) I don't think Sheik beats Ike in this matchup, mainly because asides from her USmash, she doesn't really have any reliable killing moves and she doesn't rack up damage THAT easily, though she can definitely gimp Ike relatively easily.
(45:55)
(50:50) Sonic can provide difficulties for Ike if the Ike isn't patient enough. If the Ike tries to rush approaches, Sonic can easily punish mistakes and the Ike will pay dearly for it. Fair should not be used that much in this matchup.
(45:55)
(40:60)
(45:55 - 40:60)
Ditto Match (50:50) Duh!
(45:55)
(55:45 - 50:50) Mario can gimp Ike easily and his fireballs + his approaches are pretty great against Ike. Yet, Ike still has his jabs + his grab game is pretty good against Mario. I could see the matchup being even.
(40:60)Falcon may be faster than Ike, but that doesn't mean Falcon beats Ike easily. With jabs + Nair spacing, Ike can make it difficult for Falcon to approach and punish. Offstage is a different matter though =/.
(55:45) Samus can make Ike cry with her projectiles but she won't kill you too quickly. Jab -> Utilt works wonders against Samus but make sure to powershield and try to get inside. Her projectile and camp game may be amazing, but her close quarter combat game isn't the greatest.
(45:55 - 50:50) Jigglypuff may be tough for Ikes who do not know the matchup and the way you may have to approach the matchup can differ from other matchups. Ike has to retreat a lot of his aerials so that the Puff can't get in easily. Try not to get sent offstage as that's where Jigglypuff shines.
(40:60) Fair ***** Zelda, enough said.
(45:55) While Link has the tools to camp, once Link is sent offstage, it's pretty simple to take a stock off. Jab also is very useful against Link.
(40:60 - 35:65) Ganondorf shouldn't be hard for any Ike unless you're playing an extremely smart Ganondorf. Just don't fall into any of his setups.

 

[Nysyarc]

Okay so here are the updated averages. I'll just do a quick color legend:

Cyan: True Average Ratio
Yellow: Rounded Average Ratio
Red: Rounded average has gone down with new data
Green: Rounded average has gone up with new data

I didn't bother noting each time the true average went up or down, because there were a lot of minor changes, but I took note of the few times when there was a significant difference in input that caused the rounded average to change. It only ever changed by 5 in the given direction though (60-40 to 55-45 for example).

28-72 (30-70) Change +
41-59 (40-60)
42-58 (40-60)
35-65 (35-65)
49-51 (50-50)
36-64 (35-65)
45-55 (45-55)
37-63 (35-65)
47-53 (45-55) Change -
35-65 (35-65)
42-58 (40-60)
47-53 (45-55) Change -
45-55 (45-55)
41-59 (40-60)
40-60 (40-60)
48-52 (50-50)
45-55 (45-55) Change +
49-51 (50-50)
49-51 (50-50)
43-57 (45-55)
58-42 (60-40)
44-56 (45-55)
:shiek: 44-56 (45-55) Change +
52-48 (50-50) Change -
48-52 (50-50)
53-47 (55-45) Change +
59-41 (60-40)
54-46 (55-45)
+ will always =
55-45 (55-45)
51-49 (50-50)
58-42 (60-40)
43-57 (45-55) Change +
55-45 (55-45)
60-40 (60-40)
60-40 (60-40)
65-35 (65-35)

Average Ratio Against All Characters:
47.4-52.6 (45-55)

Average Ratio Against High Tier Characters:
40.3-59.7 (40-60)

Average Ratio Against Mid Tier Characters:
48-52 (50-50)

Average Ratio Against Low Tier Characters:
55-45 (55-45)

There were very minimal changes to those last four figures, and none of the rounded averages ended up changing. I find it interesting that based on the averages, Ike comes very close to going even with the entire cast... in our humble opinion here at the Ike boards anyways.

Oh and Kimchi, for Captain Falcon you put 60-40 which, following the way you had been ordering the ratios for the rest of them would imply 60-40 Falcon's favor. I entered it that way, which is why Falcon's 'True Average' is 58-42... if you mixed it up let me know. It would just mean we all agree on 60-40 our favor.

And Niddo, quote this to put it into your OP, that way you'll get all the pretty colors in the tags too.

 

[Ussi]

@Kimchi

can i suggest you list the numbers

Ike : Opponent

Edit 2: I only was confused cause no way was Ike at a disadvantage on Falcon

I have no idea if you think we have an advantage or not

 

[Kimchi]

Falcon was a mistake. I edited it. My fault, I listed the characters as Opponent : Ike.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

How do I quote it, but get it to end up in the first post? >_> <_<

 

[-RedX-]

Quote his post, copy and paste what you need which would include the [QUOTE(Username;random numbers)]Stuff[/QUOTE]

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Now, is everyone comfortable with me bring this over to that MU topic in the Brawl Tactical Discussion area to replace our old ratios? I like how it looks, but it's not just my decision.

Also: OP updated. :D

 

[-RedX-]

I'm liking how it looks.
Probably because of all the colors ;D

 

[san.]

Seems fine to me. Most of the Ikes probably won't be more than 5-10 off from each other here and there anyways, and either way gets averaged out. At the very least, we have a foundation which to build upon as we inquire further in certain matchups.

 

[theeboredone]

Lol, playing an MK equal to your skill level is impossible to win. Out of 10 sets, I see MK winning all 10 sets unless he SD's a billion times. The smarter the MK, the more impossible it becomes. Quite frankly, MK can gimp you so hard, it's just stupid to even use Ike against him. I watched San get demolished by Lee Martin's MK, and I myself have trouble against MK mains who I would consider around my skill level. It's just an impossible match up.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Honestly, I kind of want to change my vote on the MK match-up to lower the average to as close to 80-20 as possible. It's just a terrible match-up. There's no reason for MK not to get a kill every time Ike is sent offstage, and it's really really easy for MK to get Ike offstage. Not to mention the superior poking and pressuring and... everythinging.

 

[benaji261!]

I have such a hard time in the Kirby MU for some **** reason. I just get impatient with the nonstop floating and bair wall... it drives me nuts.

 

[san.]

Honestly, I kind of want to change my vote on the MK match-up to lower the average to as close to 80-20 as possible. It's just a terrible match-up. There's no reason for MK not to get a kill every time Ike is sent offstage, and it's really really easy for MK to get Ike offstage. Not to mention the superior poking and pressuring and... everythinging.

If MK is Hanging on the ledge and is less than 100%, timing an aether just after MK releases or right before his invincibility ends helps you get back to the stage.

If MK is trying to fair your aether from the side, In the beginning of your aether, hold forward, and when Ike actually moves up, hold back. MK shouldn't have enough aerial speed to get close enough (unless it's a stage like FD where you can't bring your aether forward)

If MK is trying to attack from above, this is actually pretty difficult. It's best to bide your time as much as possible and make MK use as many jumps as possible.

If MK hits you offstage, I find that in certain siuations, jump + QD works to a certain extent in getting back (you'll likely get hit in the process but you still have a good chance of getting back. Going low is actually riskier, but you have to try to time your jumps/airdodges/aethers VERY well to get past a competent MK down there. Maybe a footstool if you're really desperate, XD.

All in all, MK can do some dangerous crap to Ike offstage, but really using MK's slow air speed and our TL air speed against him to get back to the stage, + nice timing on aether is really key.

 

[Teh Brettster]

If MK is Hanging on the ledge and is less than 100%, timing an aether just after MK releases or right before his invincibility ends helps you get back to the stage.

If MK is trying to fair your aether from the side, In the beginning of your aether, hold forward, and when Ike actually moves up, hold back. MK shouldn't have enough aerial speed to get close enough (unless it's a stage like FD where you can't bring your aether forward)

If MK is trying to attack from above, this is actually pretty difficult. It's best to bide your time as much as possible and make MK use as many jumps as possible.

If MK hits you offstage, I find that in certain siuations, jump + QD works to a certain extent in getting back (you'll likely get hit in the process but you still have a good chance of getting back. Going low is actually riskier, but you have to try to time your jumps/airdodges/aethers VERY well to get past a competent MK down there. Maybe a footstool if you're really desperate, XD.

All in all, MK can do some dangerous crap to Ike offstage, but really using MK's slow air speed and our TL air speed against him to get back to the stage, + nice timing on aether is really key.

I do know all this. It's just that a really smart MK can abuse us almost no matter what. My previous post was talking about "On paper," much like the silly Snake crouching thing.
I played M2K and I think I was able to get back onstage (and stay there) about 30-something% of the time at best. Against other MKs, I'll get back almost every time. I just think it goes to show you how many MK players don't play the match-up correctly.
I dunno. It's possible, and I know this well, but it's not very probable. And that goes for the match-up on the whole, IMO.

 

[Ussi]

I have such a hard time in the Kirby MU for some **** reason. I just get impatient with the nonstop floating and bair wall... it drives me nuts.

Your problem is you're impatient. Keep your cool and wait for an opening. You can't force an opening like MK. Just play safe using nairs, jab, and fairs. (spaced of coursed) when he gets to 100% then go for jab > utilt

Oh and learn to Dair his Kirby Cutter off the ledge

 

[Nysyarc]

Oh and learn to Dair his Kirby Cutter off the ledge

If Kirby is DIing properly he won't have to use his upB; plus as long as he can DI good he'd probably be able to DI the spike towards the stage and tech. I think KOing Kirby up is your best bet, like you mentioned with the jab -> Utilt, because he can get back to the stage easily no matter how close to KOing him you get horizontally.

I really like retreating Usmashes in this match-up. Bait them to approach and Bair by dashing forward, then pivot, slide and Usmash. It doesn't work all the time but even when it doesn't, you'll more than likely not be punished for it.

 

[san.]

Around 95% of MKs don't play the matchup correctly.

 

[Ussi]

All kirbies I've faced get greedy try to gimp me with dair and then I dair then as the Up B back. That's the only time it happens

 

[Nysyarc]

Around 95% of MKs don't play the matchup correctly.

Around 95% of MKs I've fought don't even come near me when I'm off-stage. They just kind of hang way back out of Aether planking range. I guess they assume they have the upper hand anyways... or they just really have no idea how to play the match-up.

I've only ever fought one aggressive MK off-stage that I can remember, and I did quite a lot worse against him than all the ones who played slow and patient.

 

[bladeboys]

Should I post my Ike MU Ratios or not ?

 

[san.]

MK doesn't need to go offstage. Sometimes it's easier just to hit Ike out of aether if they don't space it a certain way.

 

[-RedX-]

MK can Uair Ike if he's caught in Aether.
;[

 

[Teh Brettster]

MK can Uair Ike if he's caught in Aether.
;[

^ Lost me a tourney match once. I forgot and wasn't expecting it. Bounced off the side of FD's lip.
=[

 

[Ussi]

Know what, I'll go with the 0-100 MK *changes*

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I'm not changing my ratio.

I believe that anything beyond 3-7 is unwinnable due to either A) Being Ganondorf, or B) It's a situation like D3 vs Bowser with infinities.

There is no one aspect about MK, like an infinity or near 0-death combo (like Sheik vs Fox) that makes it truly unwinnable. Yes, it's seriously a pain. But it's still winnable, if just barely.

 

[theeboredone]

I'm not changing my ratio.

I believe that anything beyond 3-7 is unwinnable due to either A) Being Ganondorf, or B) It's a situation like D3 vs Bowser with infinities.

There is no one aspect about MK, like an infinity or near 0-death combo (like Sheik vs Fox) that makes it truly unwinnable. Yes, it's seriously a pain. But it's still winnable, if just barely.

I could play Lee Martin's MK in a 100 sets and lose a 100 times. I could play Dojo's MK in a 100 sets and lose a 100 times. Put me up against someone with my "skill level" such as D-Phat, and I say there is a good chance he beats me 100 sets to 0.

 

[-RedX-]

100-0 is like saying the other character isn't even being controlled lol
I'd go with 99.99-.01

 

[Nidtendofreak]

And I say otherwise. You would win a few. Defiantly not many, but a few.

Besides, Mr.Doom took a game off of Ally's MK, didn't he? It's possible.

 

[theeboredone]

And I say otherwise. You would win a few. Defiantly not many, but a few.

Besides, Mr.Doom took a game off of Ally's MK, didn't he? It's possible.

But a game is not a set. When I look at a match up discussion, I think a set, because the discussion itself involves what stages you should use, neutral and counterpicks. On top of that, because I'm a frequent tourny player, that is my mindset when looking at a match up.

And I don't think you understand the degree of rapeage some of these MK mains throw out when they know the Ike match up. It's absolutely ridiculous. But for simple discussion, let's say I can win 5 sets out of a 100, it's still 95-5, and it's not really changing much in terms of match up ratio. All it is saying is the match up goes from "impossible" to "nearly impossible".

And for heaven's sake, Ally's MK doesn't even use tornado. He's probably the only MK in the world that doesn't use Tornado.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

If you can win one game, it's feasible to win two.

I do understand how gay MK can be against Ike. I've played that MU. I absolutely hate it. But I see it as winnable, just barely.

I don't use ##-## meaning literally how often you will win. I use it for degrees of difficultly, like most MU topics do for Brawl. Hence anything harder then 3-7 being unwinnable, just by degrees of unwinnability.

And MK doesn't really need tornado to beat Ike. That's not what kills Ike. Besides, Ike is probably the character with the most moves that can hit through tornado. >_> That limit's it's uses slightly in the MU. It doesn't change the fact Ally is an amazing player (Number 2 in the world anyone?), and would at least have an idea about how to go about using MK. I see it as proof that the MU is indeed winnable, Ike just needs to be perfect the entire time.

 

[Watkins]

You guys know Ally is notorious for sandbagging right?

 

[theeboredone]

You guys know Ally is notorious for sandbagging right?

Sadly, everyone seems to forget that fact -_-.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Not to mention--- he's a top level player with Snake.

NOT with MK.

Not trying to discredit Mr Doom. He's good at the match-up. But against a really good MK who plays the match-up properly, that won't matter too much.