The Kirby Video Archive/Kirby Critique thread!

[TheReflexWonder]

Please help me out. I really don't have any idea how to play this character--

Bill_ and Micaelis (Green) vs TheReflexWonder and elev8 (Blue) LF 1
Bill_ and Micaelis (Green) vs TheReflexWonder and elev8 (Blue) LF 2
Bill_ and Micaelis (Green) vs TheReflexWonder and elev8 (Blue) LF 3
Bill_ and Micaelis (Green) vs TheReflexWonder and elev8 (Blue) LF 4
Bill_ and Micaelis (Green) vs TheReflexWonder and elev8 (Blue) LF 5

 

[Zigsta]

Gova and I recorded a set earlier this month:


vs. Zigsta (Bowser) 1
vs. Zigsta(Bowser) 2

 

[Tiersie]

Stop using landing dairs every time you're sent into the air, it's easy to punish. mix it up.

That's actually what I'm missing all together, mix it up with kirby, kirby is one of the easier characters to spot patterns with. Start fastfalling bairs to make punishes harder and use more fullhop rising bairs, those together with SHFF bairs are my two favorites. You often sourspot bairs, at which point you want to retreat because those are the easiest to punish/trade with.

Nice gimps and WoP's

Reflex kirby in teams and in singles tend to be very different, also I find it a bit hard to concentrate on your kirbs with 3 other characters flying around do you have some singles gameplay? Good **** using kirby in dubz though, I do think kirby is at least bottom A tier in doubles.

 

[t!MmY]

Good **** using kirby in dubz though, I do think kirby is at least bottom A tier in doubles.

-S Tier-
Meta Knight

-A Tier-
Wario
Game and Watch
Snake
Lucario
Dedede

-B Tier-
Donkey Kong
R.O.B.
Luigi
Diddy Kong
Pit
Toon Link
Olimar
Marth
Kirby

-C Tier-
Zero Suit Samus
Fox
Falco
Ness
Peach
Pikachu
Wolf

-D Tier-
Ike
Lucas
Sonic
Sheik
Mario
Jigglypuff
Zelda
Pokemon Trainer

-E Tier-
Samus
Falcon
Link
Yoshi
Ganondorf
Ice Climbers
Bowser

 

[Tiersie]

Who made that up? Mk in his own doubles tier is already debateable and Kirby is above everyone in b except oli and maybe weegee.

 

[Kewkky]

I'm 100% convinced that Kirby in doubles is either bottom of A, or around the top of B. We have too many things that can be done with other characters, and vice-versa. We cover up opponents extremely well, and we're great at helping others recover. We're quite literally a dumbed-down version of MK, which is actually a compliment.

 

[~Shao~]

In the next week or two I'll have some doubles vids from the tournament I went last month.

 

[fromundaman]

Yeah IDK, Kirby does seem like he's better than that in doubles, and Mario, Ness and Jiggs are all much better than that list says in doubles.

Low tier in singles =/= low tier in dubz.

Oh and **** Ike in doubles forever. Seriously he's one of my personal worst to team with.

 

[t!MmY]

I got some Doubles videos recorded at last week's tournament. I'll post them up if you guy want. -^_^-

 

[fromundaman]

Please do, I'd love to see tricks other kirbies use.

 

[t!MmY]

If all goes well, the videos will be uploaded today.

 

[MikeKirby]

>>This<< thread has some videos of Chu from a tourny about a month ago. Not sure if you guys have seen them but they should definitely be added!

 

[t!MmY]

Okay, here are some vids!


t1mmy (Kirby) + t0mmy (ROB) vs OMGage (ZSS) + Viviff (MK)
Round 3 is the funniest. I was having a lot of fun in that one.


t1mmy (Kirby) + t0mmy (MK) vs Jonix (Snake) + KyleOli (Wario)
This is t0mmy and I with a Kirby & Meta Knight team!

 

[fromundaman]

Wow, you use a LOT of stone and Nair OoS.

Also, game 1 second stock, you would have gotten your jumps back if you'd stayed in stone and landed. Sure you would have taken a hit, but at least you wouldn't have lost a stock.
That's one of the ways I use stone a lot actually: get back to the ground when I've lost a few jumps and am up high. I may take a hit, but if I'm not in kill%, then it's worth it.

 

[t!MmY]

I was hoping someone would point out the large amount of Stone use. I actually really don't like using Stone, BUT... there's a trick for Doubles. When you use Stone most players will run over to hit Kirby - for some reason. That's when you have your team mate pick them off like flies. Oddly enough, a lot of people will physically attack Stone instead of Grab it, which leaves Kirby in Stone form and allows your team mate to use practically any attack in retaliation. Also, if the opponents are especially bad (like 'F1ST') they will get hit by the Stone a lot.

I agree with dropping down with Stone to get your jumps back. Sometimes that's the only thing you can do against a Meta Knight who insists on keeping you off stage. I'm not sure why I canceled the Stone early before touching the ground, probably just a timing issue.

N-air OoS probably comes from my Meta Knight play - but its not that bad of an option. It can refresh your B-air and still do 12% damage. It also beats Spot Dodges if they go on the defensive.

 

[fromundaman]

I agree with Stone being somewhat useful in doubles, but you always seemed to cancel it as soon as you hit the ground (or cancel it, then stone again). I dunno... while I use it more in doubles, it seemed like you started using it WAY too much. Then again, maybe it works for you guys.

Nair OoS isn't bad, but it's not great either. I'll use it every now and again (though I tend to use my Nair like Mario's, when falling and needing to hit an opponent below me, but don't have time to do a Dair, since people don't see it coming, and they generally don't expect an attack when you're above unless they see Dair's startup animation. ), though probably less than I should, even if only to get into the habitof using it with Mario and Wolf more.

 

[Kewkky]

Nair OoS isn't bad, but it's not great either. I'll use it every now and again (though I tend to use my Nair like Mario's, when falling and needing to hit an opponent below me, but don't have time to do a Dair, since people don't see it coming, and they generally don't expect an attack when you're above unless they see Dair's startup animation. ), though probably less than I should, even if only to get into the habitof using it with Mario and Wolf more.

I usually just bair and hit them with Kirby's face. It works, and I do it with ZSS too. RATED, a Snake mainer with whom I learned my Snake MU from, does it too and my God is it annoying. I'm starting to use nair more than before, although they're all accidental uses, I'm blaming ZSS' extremely useful nair for my many mistakes.

What t!mmy said about Stone is a pretty good idea... I never thought about using stone like that, and it's true that opponents tend to run after me when I use stone. I'll try doing that next time I play doubles! I have to be careful though, most of my smasher friends know how to play doubles better than singles, so one of the opponents will almost always be on top of my ally when the other runs after me to grab me out of stone or something of the sort.

 

[fromundaman]

Wait... did you say ZSS has a useful Nair? I thought her Nair was useless.

And yeah, Bair can be used in pretty much every situation Nair can. The only advantage is that Nair is usually fresh so more damage and it refreshes Bair.

 

[Kewkky]

HECK no, her nair is very useful indeed! It's fast, hits in an otherwise blind spot, autocancels (or has little to no landing lag, as with her other aerials), is disjointed, pushes people back if they're trying to shieldgrab you (and since it's disjointed, they can't shieldgrab you), and is one quite good ledgehop option. You can also break certain projectiles with it, and it's safer than anything else if your opponent is slightly below you+in front. ZSS boards were the ones saying it sucked, but for some reason they all of a sudden started liking that attack a couple of months back.

 

[fromundaman]

I am now enlightened. The ZSS mains I played told me it sucked

 

[Kewkky]

AGH, one of the people who used to have videos of me closed their account and now all those vids are gone! And the other dude set some of my videos to private! >:O FFFFF why would they do that

Hmm, what to do... Guess I better record new videos ASAP.

Btw, I'm going to collect all of Ling's Kirby vids and put him in the OP too.

 

[t!MmY]

To be completely honest, I was just dropping Stones simply for the lolz.
I'm going to work Stone into my Doubles more, but I was just throwing it out there randomly and getting KOs. XD

Oh, what's especially funny in Doubles is when you sit in your Stone and the two opponents both attack it and hit each other.

 

[Ling Ling]

My dubz kirbeh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ItrdZVVZwQ&feature=related

 

[Kewkky]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5MyHtTOb8c - Excel_Zero (Marth) + Kewkky (Kirby) vs Drake (DDD) + Vizar (G&W) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIkHg5qOUtM - Excel_Zero (Marth) + Kewkky (Kirby) vs Drake (DDD) + Vizar (G&W) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17LOPxCxdqE - Excel_Zero (Marth) + Kewkky (Kirby) vs Drake (DDD) + Vizar (G&W) 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ekF-3Cx3kU - Excel_Zero (Marth) + Kewkky (Kirby) vs Drake (DDD) + Vizar (G&W) 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqEXxzzUdl0 - Kewkky (Kirby) vs DFat1 (Marth) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2Tf1A_AzA4 - Kewkky (Kirby) vs DFat1 (Marth) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGYKsYKo-XI - Kewkky (Kirby) vs DOOM! (Snake) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3sro6XXR2Y - Kewkky (Kirby) vs DOOM! (Snake) 2

I know I rushed a lot, I was over-aggressive and the videos show me that. I'm fixing it though.

 

[Triple R]

Nice match Kewkky. Too be honest the only people that looked like they knew what they were doing were you, your partner, and DOOM! lol

It was obvious you guys outclassed your opponents in teams.

I think it's obvious you have what it takes to beat DOOM!, like how you were doing in the first match, but then, like you said, you got a little aggressive second match and just kinda went blah lol.

Just to let you know though, the first and fourth doubles match are the same link.

 

[Kewkky]

Nice match Kewkky. Too be honest the only people that looked like they knew what they were doing were you, your partner, and DOOM! lol

It was obvious you guys outclassed your opponents in teams.

I think it's obvious you have what it takes to beat DOOM!, like how you were doing in the first match, but then, like you said, you got a little aggressive second match and just kinda went blah lol.

I don't want to sound egotistical or anything, but the power-ranked people here are pretty far ahead of the rest of the players when it comes to player skill. Chances of unranked players beating ranked players are extremely slim, since we all practice with each other all the time and keep helping each other become better players.

I've told myself many times to play defensively, like when I play against TLs, and during friendlies it works out wonderfully. It's just me wanting some action to happen that makes me go aggressive, I guess it's just my Melee instincts kicking in. It's the same thing that happens when I use ZSS, I start craving faster-paced matches so I try to force openings and end up getting wrecked by shielding opponents. It usually works against my campy opponents, but when I play people who are also aggressive by nature, the game turns in their favor because I'm used to campy and safe options being selected by my opponents than actual aggro gameplay. At least I don't feel like I've hit a plateau.

Next tourney I'll place in the money, I just know it! /positive_thinking >:D

Just to let you know though, the first and fourth doubles match are the same link.

Whoops! Thanks for pointing it out! Changing it now.

 

[Sage JoWii]

@ Kewkky- Alright, watching the DOOM! matches.

I stopped after the first one.
---------------
Obviously my faith in your abilities w/o having seen any videos has been answer with a confirmation of skill in this first video. It was going so well! (Oddly enough I'd rather face Snake on FD than a lot of other stages) And then you went and ****ed it up. As a Kirby and as a player you're top of midlevel (similar to RRR and YbM)/ bottom of top so when you finally come to the States, I'm expecting to see good tournament results from you. Just fix your dumb mindset that convinced you to go aggro when you had a large margin lead.

 

[Kewkky]

I can be patient against Wario and MK since I can't follow up on anything I hit on them mostly. But against Snake, since he's so comboable and he falls so fast, I get the urge to go in and get things started. It's cool though, I can fix it before my next tourney/saved replays, in PR MK stopped being a problem and now we can focus on other MUs better (everyone suddenly stopped using MK except the only legit MK mainer).

 

[TheReflexWonder]

You know what you doing--

kismet2 vs. George

kismet2 vs. George 1
kismet2 vs. George 2​

 

[Sage JoWii]

1st vid-

Spoiler

Usuallly the first thing you want against MK is to get the grab combo (FThrow>UAir>reverseUTilt>BAir) If you hit him with a BAir and get him to 12% then you've only got a part of the possible 37% he could've had with the grab combo from 0. And even if he DI's out, it's safe.

Space your Dtilt. Something good is jab>Dtilt>grab if you're not spaced.

Rock isn't a good move on flat areas, especially against MK. You got lucky.

Great punish for the kill on the 'nado.

Don't waste all your jumps getting back to the stage, but stay above ground level. If you get hit and you've wasted all your jumps getting back, you're just asking to die.

If you're on a platform, it's best not to roll if MK is around the vicinity XD.

And if you FC to recover, grab the ledge. Also, instead of DAiring when you're really high up, and recovering, you can FC to the ledge as a mixup.

2nd vid-

Spoiler

GAAAAWDDAMMIT THERE WERE PLATFORMS. You have a bunch of jumps and platforms, YOU DONT HAVE TO RETURN TO THE GROUND WHERE MK IS WAITING.

LMAO, when you started earthquaking on the ledge. ANYONE could've seen you'd be within DTilt/FSmash/DSmash range, and there's a lot of cooldown on that glitch.

When recovering, just float back with DI and use the extras WHEN YOU NEED TO. If MK is floating at the top with you, don't rock; just pull back and float down, or FC down.

Alright I stopped watching when you got hit into the fire. I feel as though trying to watch anything beyond this would be a waste of time because even if you are a good player, and even if you know the MU, you don't know the stage and CP'd incorrectly. Lrn2CP or LrnUrCPs.

The first vid has a nice looking Kirby. Keep it up, and keep trying.

 

[Triple R]

Lol, that metaknight was so aggressive. He should calm down a little and he would ****.

The Kirby was pretty good too. But I feel like there are some basic things he is still missing, like Jowii said, just concentrate on recovering smartly and not landing by metaknight. But we all make those mistakes and it can be hard sometimes. George's Kirby was looking pretty good though, Keep up the good work.

 

[GeorgeTHPS]

1st vid-

Spoiler

Usuallly the first thing you want against MK is to get the grab combo (FThrow>UAir>reverseUTilt>BAir) If you hit him with a BAir and get him to 12% then you've only got a part of the possible 37% he could've had with the grab combo from 0. And even if he DI's out, it's safe.

I'll go for the grab combo if I see I can get it. I've learned not to telegraph it too much. Also he SDI'd out of it the entire set, so it didn't make a big difference in the grand scheme of things.

Space your Dtilt. Something good is jab>Dtilt>grab if you're not spaced.

Rock isn't a good move on flat areas, especially against MK. You got lucky.

Skill. Pictochat was another story.

Great punish for the kill on the 'nado.

I actually think I look for Mach Tornado a little too much. I learned to bait it when it was more commonly used, and now I hardly see it any more.

Don't waste all your jumps getting back to the stage, but stay above ground level. If you get hit and you've wasted all your jumps getting back, you're just asking to die.

I think recovering is one of my main issues against Meta Knight. I feel like I've lost a stock if I'm even knocked slightly past the ledge. Recovering stage level makes me scared of dair. I don't really have a reliable way of getting around it.

If you're on a platform, it's best not to roll if MK is around the vicinity XD.

And if you FC to recover, grab the ledge. Also, instead of DAiring when you're really high up, and recovering, you can FC to the ledge as a mixup.

My constant dairing is for my wary of Shuttle Loop. I don't really trust Final Cutter so high up. Landing on the stage after a Final Cutter is a very bad habit of mine. Totally knew it cost me the second I landed there.

2nd vid-

Spoiler

GAAAAWDDAMMIT THERE WERE PLATFORMS. You have a bunch of jumps and platforms, YOU DONT HAVE TO RETURN TO THE GROUND WHERE MK IS WAITING.

Referring to SDIing out of ftilt and then getting grabbed? Yeaaaaah.

LMAO, when you started earthquaking on the ledge. ANYONE could've seen you'd be within DTilt/FSmash/DSmash range, and there's a lot of cooldown on that glitch.

When recovering, just float back with DI and use the extras WHEN YOU NEED TO. If MK is floating at the top with you, don't rock; just pull back and float down, or FC down.

I supposed more hesitance is what I need when recovering. I feel like I have to go around Meta Knight.

Alright I stopped watching when you got hit into the fire. I feel as though trying to watch anything beyond this would be a waste of time because even if you are a good player, and even if you know the MU, you don't know the stage and CP'd incorrectly. Lrn2CP or LrnUrCPs.

I actually know the stage fairly well, but you're right. I would have been much better off somewhere like Battlefield or Smashville again.

The first vid has a nice looking Kirby. Keep it up, and keep trying.

Responses inside collapsed text.

 

[jiovanni007]

Responses inside collapsed text.

Honestly you were just too aggressive in both of the matches. There are some match-ups where you need to be aggressive but MK is more of a super boring bait and punish. Super boring because you have to wait for the MK to do something that you can punish.

Where's utilt? I saw many opportunities where and utilt OoS would've been a nice option and you ended up taking damage for not doing it.

Also when MK is in the air at a height higher than his full hop, Kirby is in the positional advantage. Our uair has a slight rang advantage on his dair and does amazing damage to boot. Most MKs don't even know that their in a bad spot even after being hit with a few uairs. So if MK is high in the air, chase him with a few uair and y'all will go back and forth. The once he runs out of jumps watch for his landing and try to punish it.

edit: We're restarting our NOLA tournament series at the end of Febuary so you guys should come to it.

 

[Triple R]

Where's utilt? I saw many opportunities where and utilt OoS would've been a nice option and you ended up taking damage for not doing it.

utilt OoS is possible?

 

[Kewkky]

utilt OoS is possible?

Uhh, yes it is. You gotta drop your shield though, so that's ~7 frames added to the attack from the shield drop animation. It's still a very fast OoS option, it has very decent range, and combos into a grab/bair/another utilt (depending on the opponent's character and their %). There's also OoS ftilt, but it sings the same song as utilt does.

 

[Triple R]

That's not what I usually think of when I hear OoS. OoS options usually are things you can do by jumping out of it: usmash, grab, bairs, wavedashes and shines in melee. Those things happen pretty close to instant when you do them. Utilting OoS would more be like jumping canceling an utilt, which I don't think is possible.

Long story short I don't think dropping your shield to do an attack should be considered OoS. I find it a little misleading.

 

[Sage JoWii]

Yall are dumb, he totally used UTilt OoS in the first vid.

 

[Kewkky]

That's not what I usually think of when I hear OoS. OoS options usually are things you can do by jumping out of it: usmash, grab, bairs, wavedashes and shines in melee. Those things happen pretty close to instant when you do them. Utilting OoS would more be like jumping canceling an utilt, which I don't think is possible.

Long story short I don't think dropping your shield to do an attack should be considering OoS.

That's jump-canceled attacks. OoS means out-of-shield, and that's pretty much it. You can OoS jump-canceled attacks, and this is the case the majority of the time since attacks don't have the shield-drop frames to slow them down, but any attack that's relatively fast and hard for your opponent to punish when he hits your shield is an OoS option.

 

[Triple R]

I've never heard of people saying dropping your shield and doing an attack is "out of shield." What you're describing is 'doing an attack after dropping your shield.' What I'm talking about is literally out of shield.

Against a Metaknight though you might as well do a bair OoS rather than a shield drop utilt. You will get punished if they shield either option. The plus side is that the bair OoS comes out faster.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Wouldn't the U-Tilt have better potential for follow-ups, though?