The Lucario Frame Data Project

[phi1ny3]

I learned it while practicing BROVERSAL!?!
I tried doing SH fair -> retreating ASC and I noticed that fair had to complete the entire animation for it to work (he had his foot out for like for an extra second or two, I swear), as opposed to fair ->fair when I noticed it got done a lot more quickly.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Lucario, you just amaze me even more.

Noob question: What's Broversal!?!

 

[Aurasmash14]

ASC shenanigans.

 

[phi1ny3]

Good news, apparently, DT is now a little better framewise (not still noteworthy).
Before people go "wth, frame1!?!", let me explain. This is the earliest the attack comes out, this doesn't account for the special counter hitbox to come out (which is now frame 6 apparently), and it doesn't account for the "phwizzz I iz hax0r of the dimension" animation, which is currently unknown.
It now starts faster, lasts longer, and has shorter endlag (still pretty atrocious though).
Credit goes to Kirk for finding this, but I'm now going to begin starting project PSA very soon finally.

 

[Rykoshet]

Credit goes to kirk actually, I didnt wanna open up PSA and find out but he looked into it for me.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

I'm posting here on account of you not accepting PMs.

When it comes to the duration of the animation, PSA doesn't tell you this, but it does tell you just about everything else.

Go under the Sub Actions tab and you'll see the page with animation names. Scroll down to find the one you need to look up.

This is a glossary of the Animation names:

Originally Posted by Segab
Movement/Jump animations

Wait1, Wait2, Wait3: standing animations

JumpSquat: preparing to jump
JumpF: jump forward
JumpB: jump backward
JumpAerialF: double jump forward
JumpAerialB: double jump backward

WalkSlow: walk slow
WalkMiddle: walk middle
WalkFast: walk fast
WalkBrake: brake while walking

Dash: initial dash
Run: run
RunBrake: brake while running

Turn: turn
TurnRun: turn while runnning
TurnRunBrake: turn and brake while running

Squat: crouch


Normal Attack animations

Attack11, Attack12, Attack13 : neutral A combo (ie. punch-punch-kick)
AttackDash : dash attack
AttackS3: Forward tilt if theres no angled (F-tilt)
AttackS3Hi : up Forward tilt (up F-tilt)
AttackS3S : middle Forward tilt (middle F-tilt)
AttackS3Lw : down Forward tilt (down F-tilt)
AttackHi3 : Up tilt (U-tilt)
AttackLw3 : Down tilt (D-tilt)

AttackS4Start : Initate Forward smash
AttackS4S : Forward smash
AttackS4Hold : charge Forward smash
AttackHi4Start : Initate Up smash
AttackHi4 : Up smash
AttackHi4Hold : charge Up smash
AttackLw4Start : Initate Down smash
AttackLw4 : Down smash
AttackLw4Hold : charge Down smash

AttackAirN : Neutral aerial (N-air)
AttackAirF : Forward aerial (F-air)
AttackAirB : Back aerial (B-air)
AttackAirHi : Up aerial (U-air)
AttackAirLw : Down aerial (D-air)

LandingAirN: landing from N-air
LandingAirF: landing from F-air
LandingAirB: landing from B-air
LandingAirHi: landing from U-air
LandingAirLw: landing from D-air

AttackDash: dash attack

CliffAttackQuick : Ledge Attack below 100%
CliffClimbQuick : getting Up without attacking form the ledge below 100%
CliffEscapeQuick : Pressing R/L/shield button to roll from the ledge below 100%
CliffJumpQuick1/2/3... : Jumping up form the ledge below 100%
CliffAttackSlow : Attacking from the ledge above 100%
CliffClimbSlow : getting Up without attacking form the ledge above 100%
CliffEscapeSlow : Pressing R/L/shield button to roll from the ledge above 100%
CliffJumpSlow1/2/3... : Jumping up form the ledge above 100%


Special Attack animations

Special: their name change depending on the character, but they are all B attacks
N: neutral B (ie. SpecialN)
Hi: up B (ie. SpecialHi)
S: side B (ie. SpecialS)
Lw: down B (ie. SpecialLw)
Air: any B attack in the air (ie. SpecialAirS = side B in the air)
depending on the character, there will be something after "Special" and it's direction. "SpecialAirNShoot" would be neutral B while in the air and shooting

Final: using a final smash
FinalAir: using a final smash in the air
some characters will have extra stuff after "Final"


Shield/Dodge animations

GuardOn: start shield
Guard: shielding
GuardOff: stop shield

EscapeN: spot dodge
EscapeF: dodge forward
EscapeB: dodge backward
EscapeAir: air dodge


Grabs/Throws

Catch/CatchDash/CatchTurn : standing, running, and turn-around grabs

ThrowF: forward throw
ThrowB: backward throw
ThrowLw: down throw
ThrowHi: up throw


Other animations

AppealHi : Up Taunt
AppealS : Side taunt (there's 2 of them)
AppealLwR : Down taunt (facing right)
AppealLwL : Down taunt (facing left)

Win1: victory pose 1
Win1Wait: victory pose 1 standby
Win2: victory pose 2
Win2Wait: victory pose 2 standby
Win3: victory pose 3
Win3Wait: victory pose 3 standby
Lose: lose pose

Some of these have specs in the box below.

Please note that ALL the timers on PSA counters seem to be 1 frame ahead so add 1 frame to every number.

Here's a short glossary of things you'll see in the box:

Body Collision - Dictates how the character responds to hitboxes.
Normal - Normal behavior.
Intangible - True invincibility
Invincible - You take hits, but receive no damage.

Offensive Collision - Hitbox and it's data.

Terminate Collisions - Ends a hitbox.

Allow interupt - IASA frame

Asynchronous timer - This dictates when the below event will happen in frame incriments. They count from the start of the animation. 

For example:

Asynchronous timer: frames=30
Allow interrupt

This means that the first IASA frame is at frame 31.

Synchronous timer - Also dictates when the below event occurs. This starts counting from the start of the previous event.

For Example:

Asynchronous Timer:frames=5
Offensive Collision
Synchronous Timer:frames=3
Terminate Collisions

This means that the hitbox lasts for 3 frames and will end at frame 9.

Just in case you didn't see the message:

If you need help or a proper guide, go here:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=243626

You're on the right track, but Get the updated PSA here:
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?odnz2mdgkri
It makes counting much easier.

 

[phi1ny3]

Thanks, this explains a ton.

 

[iRJi]

First page Updated with new and accurate frame data. Take note on the little changes made like Fair and Usmash. Also, lingering hit box data will soon be added shortly.

 

[phi1ny3]

Usmash speed was much faster than expected o.O
Then again, it was annoying to try to get someone to land on it to test the hitbox "the old fashioned way".

 

[iRJi]

Hey kirk, If you happen to see this can you also just double check the first hitbox for each move please =D. I just want to make sure everything is as accurate as possible ^_^

 

[Kirk]

Just thought I'd add, I only took a brief look at it, so I could be wrong in some areas, but that is what it showed glancing over.

As for smashes, I'm pretty sure you have those incorrect.

Smashes are built slightly different in PSA. They consist of 3 subactions(sections) each:

Startup Animation - This is the portion where you input the smash command until the point where you are able to start charging.

Charging Animation - The animation used for charging the smash. Can be interuptted at anytime or skipped completely, depending on user input.

Attack Animation - The....attack. If uncharged, this starts immediately after the startup animation. If any charged is used, it will begin as soon as you release it.

For his Usmash, I'm guessing you got frame 8 from the Attack subaction. You need to take into account the amount of frames the Startup Animation has and add those in as well. The 8 frames is counting from the beginning of the Attack animation.

Unfortunately, you cannot see how long a particular animation lasts in PSA. For smashes, this is especially troublesome. For other attacks, however, if there is an Allow Interupt(IASA frame), you can use that as the ending point of the attack.

This is basically only troublesome for the smash attacks. The only thing missing is the duration of the startup animation. With any other attack/subaction, you can find almost everything you need.

Just wanted to point this out to ensure frame accuracy. If you already took this into account, great. But I'm pretty sure that his Usmash doesn't come out THAT quick(I don't have PSA to look at atm).

Have fun. :o

EDIT: You knew I would come, eh? xD

Hey kirk, If you happen to see this can you also just double check the first hitbox for each move please =D. I just want to make sure everything is as accurate as possible ^_^

I can, but not until I get off work. I don't have the files to look at right now. So it would have to be later.

 

[iRJi]

Just thought I'd add, I only took a brief look at it, so I could be wrong in some areas, but that is what it showed glancing over.

As for smashes, I'm pretty sure you have those incorrect.

Smashes are built slightly different in PSA. They consist of 3 subactions(sections) each:

Startup Animation - This is the portion where you input the smash command until the point where you are able to start charging.

Charging Animation - The animation used for charging the smash. Can be interuptted at anytime or skipped completely, depending on user input.

Attack Animation - The....attack. If uncharged, this starts immediately after the startup animation. If any charged is used, it will begin as soon as you release it.

For his Usmash, I'm guessing you got frame 8 from the Attack subaction. You need to take into account the amount of frames the Startup Animation has and add those in as well. The 8 frames is counting from the beginning of the Attack animation.

Unfortunately, you cannot see how long a particular animation lasts in PSA. For smashes, this is especially troublesome. For other attacks, however, if there is an Allow Interupt(IASA frame), you can use that as the ending point of the attack.

This is basically only troublesome for the smash attacks. The only thing missing is the duration of the startup animation. With any other attack/subaction, you can find almost everything you need.

Just wanted to point this out to ensure frame accuracy. If you already took this into account, great. But I'm pretty sure that his Usmash doesn't come out THAT quick(I don't have PSA to look at atm).

Have fun. :o

EDIT: You knew I would come, eh? xD


I can, but not until I get off work. I don't have the files to look at right now. So it would have to be later.

Thats fine =D

 

[phi1ny3]

Just thought I'd add, I only took a brief look at it, so I could be wrong in some areas, but that is what it showed glancing over.

As for smashes, I'm pretty sure you have those incorrect.

Smashes are built slightly different in PSA. They consist of 3 subactions(sections) each:

Startup Animation - This is the portion where you input the smash command until the point where you are able to start charging.

Charging Animation - The animation used for charging the smash. Can be interuptted at anytime or skipped completely, depending on user input.

Attack Animation - The....attack. If uncharged, this starts immediately after the startup animation. If any charged is used, it will begin as soon as you release it.

For his Usmash, I'm guessing you got frame 8 from the Attack subaction. You need to take into account the amount of frames the Startup Animation has and add those in as well. The 8 frames is counting from the beginning of the Attack animation.

Unfortunately, you cannot see how long a particular animation lasts in PSA. For smashes, this is especially troublesome. For other attacks, however, if there is an Allow Interupt(IASA frame), you can use that as the ending point of the attack.

This is basically only troublesome for the smash attacks. The only thing missing is the duration of the startup animation. With any other attack/subaction, you can find almost everything you need.

Just wanted to point this out to ensure frame accuracy. If you already took this into account, great. But I'm pretty sure that his Usmash doesn't come out THAT quick(I don't have PSA to look at atm).

Have fun. :o

EDIT: You knew I would come, eh? xD


I can, but not until I get off work. I don't have the files to look at right now. So it would have to be later.

This makes sooo much sense, I was like usmash has lolhax?

 

[iRJi]

This makes sooo much sense, I was like usmash has lolhax?

Time to fix it =]. come on aim when you can.

 

[phi1ny3]

Edit: wait, gotta check my facts.

 

[iRJi]

I had ryko check last night on Usmash, I believe he said it was 12 instead of 8. Might want to recheck again.

 

[phi1ny3]

Kirk said that animation wasn't accounted for, so after "said animation", there's a hitbox on frame 8, and one on frame 12.
It's funny, usmash is still an enigma, even with PSA lol.

 

[iRJi]

Kirk said that animation wasn't accounted for, so after "said animation", there's a hitbox on frame 8, and one on frame 12.
It's funny, usmash is still an enigma, even with PSA lol.

even with some of it explained, i still don't get it all that much. I would have to look at the program in order to read it properly. So then im guessing its 1. Still a lot faster then we had it, lol.

 

[phi1ny3]

These are pretty much updated now, and read the part in the OP that's yellow!

 

[swordgard]

Is it possible to
A) Have hitlag on these
B) Shield advantage/disadvantage
Could really allow us lucario players to know what is best and by how much.

 

[Browny]

lol nice... ive been thinking thats the case for a very long time, and there is a lot of other moves in the game im sure are the same but are incorrectly called AC'ing aerials

 

[RT]

So utilt is indeed his fastest ground attack.

Sweet.

 

[phi1ny3]

Is it possible to
A) Have hitlag on these
B) Shield advantage/disadvantage
Could really allow us lucario players to know what is best and by how much.

Yes, that's my next objective with these.

 

[Kitamerby]

Umm... I did some of the shield frame advantage testing today, and I gotta say... it's probably better than what most characters have got, but it's nothing to be all hyped about. ._.

Out of Fsmash, Dair, and Ftilt, none of these are safe on block at any % frame-data wise (Fsmash still pushes them waaaaaaaay too far to be grabbed regardless at the tip). I'll test Usmash, Dsmash, Bair, dtilt, etc. later or tomorrow. (Oi, I should've tested aura sphere.)

I will say one thing, though. Ftilt is most likely our second move for shield pressure so far other than Fsmash for its shield push, but it's still not that great. At the cap, it has a -4 shield drop advantage, but even Jigglypuff has 5 frames to shieldgrab us outright before we can do anything, prob more if you count frames needed to get away in time.

Gonna send Phil the details. <<
God, I expected so much better. ;-;

Gonna go emo right now.

 

[phi1ny3]

and is this at 0 percent? Iirc, we get better in shield advantages at higher percents.
Edit: Whoops, got the data in my PMs.
Also, I would assume that spacing would help, considering that you can't actually shield grab a spacing lucario unless you're like DDD or something, and dash grabs have to take into consideration both the dash time and grab time, which would mean that they could technically still be safe on block.

 

[Kitamerby]

and is this at 0 percent? Iirc, we get better in shield advantages at higher percents.
Edit: Whoops, got the data in my PMs.
Also, I would assume that spacing would help, considering that you can't actually shield grab a spacing lucario unless you're like DDD or something, and dash grabs have to take into consideration both the dash time and grab time, which would mean that they could technically still be safe on block.

Edit: ****, I think I might've done the wrong data. I'm gonna have to redo this, lol.

edit edit: nvm it was right. :V

 

[phi1ny3]

I can see that they have a lot of time, but unfortunately, I think that if spaced, these moves are pretty safe, at least the ones where you need to dash -> grab, since dashing takes some frames.

 

[hichez50]

Would it be a practical approach to walk and up tilt instead of jab. On most charaters you can follow a uptilt with another uptilt or a nair. The nair might miss but if you DI in the opposit direction of the way your opponet is going you should generally be ok.

 

[Aurasmash14]

Where's the IASA on Dtilt?

it cancels into uptilt pretty well.

 

[Kitamerby]

Where's the IASA on Dtilt?

it cancels into uptilt pretty well.

Frame 25.

10char

 

[phi1ny3]

bleh I've been lazy with this stuff, gonna get an update soon.

 

[Veril]

Now for the sake of SCIENCE!, iirc, the human eye processes at about 24-30 fps, so that gives you a good indicator of what's going on. The average Joe can react at about frame 10, although usually higher than so.

You do not recall correctly if we are talking about "choice reaction time", which is 15 frames for the average person, and can be as low as 12. Choice reaction time can be best illustrated by the very common situation of deciding optimal DI when grabbed. Assuming (and of course this is not always the case) that each of the 4 possible throws has an optimal DI, were you to DI purely on reflex you would need ~15 frames to determine how to DI.

If you are in a situation where no conscious thought is involved, such as when you powershield a move, than reaction time can be considered lower. I won't waste the time trying to explain the cognitive reasoning behind this... unless you really want me to ;p

 

[Aurasmash14]

disregard.

 

[DerpDaBerp]

this may sound dumb, but does the shield grab take effect faster than a regular standing grab?

 

[Kitamerby]

this may sound dumb, but does the shield grab take effect faster than a regular standing grab?

Same speed, but shieldgrabs generally take place while the opponent is stuck in the cooldown of their own attack, so they are more likely to connect.

But I think your question is more along the lines of Z for grabbing vs L/R+A, right? In that case, they're still the same speed for the grab itself, but if you press A too late with L/R+A, the shield may come up for a few frames, which technically slows down the grab slightly. In all honesty, it's up to you on which you decide to use to grab.

 

[ArcPoint]

If you are in a situation where no conscious thought is involved, such as when you powershield a move, than reaction time can be considered lower. I won't waste the time trying to explain the cognitive reasoning behind this... unless you really want me to ;p

I really want you to.

 

[phi1ny3]

Updating with advantages.

 

[iRJi]

Updating with advantages.

You are aware that I made a whole thread with all of the moves right?

 

[phi1ny3]

osnap where?

edit: whoops, found it.

 

[iRJi]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=260678

Here you go. All information is accurate too. Some moves are missing, but I got most of them. it also notes shield stun and hitstun at 0