The Marth Matchup Ratio Thread (V2)

[xxmoosexx]

Dolphin Slashing to punish...is a little sketchy.

So our main form of defense is Pivot Grab. I wonder how long that is going to work...we can't approach him just like he can't approach us. The difference is the offstage and percent lead.

MK is great at baiting if you don't know...

Offstage we get *****. If we let him get a percent lead planking/stalling/camping is gonna happen. I feel that marth has just a hard time as MK does when it comes to approaching.

And its definitely not even or god forbid even slightly in Marth's favor.

 

[etecoon]

pivot grab beats MK's DASH approaches, if he just walks pivot grabbing is only going to reset your spacing AT BEST

I think it's ignorant to say that marth has no options though, on stage it should be closeish, marth being more vulnerable to gimps and edge traps is most of the problem

 

[xxmoosexx]

Yeah. I admit saying marth has no options was stupid.

Just...there aren't many. He just can't play MK the way he can other characters and the viable playstyle he has against MK is almost solid at best. Blah blah blah Mikehaze vs M2K.

I am absolute in the idea that pro's like them have transcended past character matchups. I doubt Mikehaze plays M2K just like any other MK out there.

 

[etecoon]

I am absolute in the idea that pro's like them have transcended past character matchups.

at least one of them disagrees with you

I canNOT fight this character. NinjaLink beat me twice in the past, Felix beat me in a match after I was warmed up after I ***** Tourneyplay3, Gnes almost beat me, and ADHD ***** me badly this past weekend. I think I'm really bad at this matchup. Can someone who knows what they are talking about (please only post if you are sure you're right) please tell me what I'm doing wrong (plenty of vids on youtube). I'm tired of getting ***** by diddy.

 

[xxmoosexx]

Well then I guess Im wrong.

Oh well.

You live and you learn.

 

[VibeSlyph]

Diddy is like 55:45 our favor, but that's IMO and I can easily see how it's arguable. [But I still mad.]

Pikachu is deff +2, I don't know what crazy **** you guys were smoking to agree to +1. Lol.

 

[xxmoosexx]

Talk to ESAM and Shaya about it. It actually sounds realistic.

But I still think its 60 40

 

[Ykana]

Im no expert on Pikachu but i cant see him being as **** as chars like GaW and Luigi, +1 seems fine. No Marths beat ESAM in the USA for starters.

 

[Reizilla]

I would take a dump on that rat if I were at WHOBO right now.

 

[Dopl-G]

Disregard this psot for the minute.

 

[Reizilla]

I'm complete *** against Snake, so I'll be sitting this one out.

 

[Dopl-G]

Disregard this post for the minute.

 

[Reizilla]

In b4 lock

 

[Shaya]

You lost everything?

I can restore your first post to a previous date.
Not entirely sure what's wrong here?

 

[Ykana]

Nah its soming i lost onda Computer, dw about it.

 

[Shaya]

Well it was a nice representation of the match up chart. Don't think it should go entirely to waste.

 

[Ykana]

Ok thats good to hear. Its just i also thought "There's no point doing this because we already have the Marth Matchups Index," which is basically the same thing pretty much, but if you want im up for creating a new Matchup Chart with the help from everyone else, what do you think?

Also if you want can you restore this thread from 2 days ago, cheers.

 

[Shaya]

well I feel that our match up "chart" is at least reasonably accurate (minor tidbit things may be worth changing... but not in any large rush). But working on talking about match ups could be super special awesome.

marth match up index, of course, I could just sit down and try to fix it up, but I still don't have all the bb codes I need, me thinks.

 

[Ykana]

OK i got kinda lost then lolz, u mean the BBR Matchup Chart is pretty accurate right? Yes i can agree with that if so.

As for the Marth Matchup Index, idk what u mean by BB codes, but it could be replaced with this thread, with both the BBR and our Ratios, which we can all decide on weekly, by replace i mean just use the first psot from this thread (From 2 Days Ago). What do you think? Im up for organising it.

 

[Dopl-G]

Ohh i found my test post before i actually posted, no need to restore.

Alright so yeah if anyone has any information on any matchup that would be greatly appriciated, i wanna get all matchups full with information. JUST SPAM INFO IN HERE AND I WILL ORGANISE IT!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ykana]

Can this thread get a sticky? Or replace the old 2008 thread? Some info from that can be copied to this. Should be succesful if people contribute.

 

[Nike.]

-2
-2
+1
0
-1
0
+1

The ratios I think are more accurate.

Kadaj, how do we beat Rob/DK?

Shaya, how do we beat Sonic +2?

Vibe, how do we **** Diddy?

Steam, how does Lucario go even with Marth?

Rei-Gun/Mr. r, how do we beat falco +2?

Let's be like 08 and get things done, something we once prided ourselves in doing

 

[Dopl-G]

That may possibly be true, but atm were just discussing Falco and Snake.

(Sorry for not makign it clear, i forgot lolz)

But anyway, i don't agree with 0 for Snake, most Snakes find Marth harder than Metaknight, i definatly can't see it at 0.

As for Falco, +2 is silly lol, +1 i could consider, but i think its better of at 0, what does everyone else think and why?

 

[Mr-R]

Yeah I gotta say +1 as well now

 

[_Kadaj_]

The thing about rob/DK is although they are good at dealing damage, nothing they do is safe lol. Just punishing them alone is a big factor in this mu as they can't really do the same to you. Nair ***** them both very badly (slow falling auto canceled)

And they cannot reliably land once knocked into the air.

Offstage DK get's destroyed by counter and bair so much so that IF he does recover his damage should've increased by at LEAST 70-80% every time he is ever trying to recover. Rob is almost the same way but he has a small improvement of recovery options making it a little more difficult to land hits on.

I am also starting to think d3 at worst is even and at best he only has a slight advantage, he's like ic's but with less options.

 

[Reizilla]

Why is Falco even?

 

[Dopl-G]

Read 2nd Post

As for Falco and WHY IS HE EVEN, talk to DEHF about the matchup, he's really good at the Marth matchup, best Falco at it from what ive seen. But Falco can srsly **** us when he gets in, with his broken chaingrab, which is guranteed if he buffers it, and its 10x easier for him to get a grab than us, then after that Dair whether on stage he can give us more damage. Also when Falco is in the lead its stupid as he can run away can camp like a ****, i hate it when he gets the lead. With that said Marth also has alot of advantages, but imo its either 50:50 or 55:45 at worst, i could go with slight advantage, but id go more towards even ad i think we only have a slight advantage against Fox, and Fox isn't as hard as Falco.

 

[C.M.X]

Marth vs Snake is definatly slight Marth advantage, nothing more or nothing less though imo.

 

[xxmoosexx]

From my snake experience~

The MU is all about Marth getting past snakes explosives, tilts, and grab and throwing him in the air or to the edge.

Snake does worse than Marth in the air and on the edge. His crap mobility leave him to be absolutely destroyed in the air.

Utilt kills Marth around 110
Snake wont die till like 200% without a tipper
Get player slot 4
Nair~ SDI it
Fair~lol why would you even get hit by this
Bair~ its like marios....but bigger...and it kills, snakes love to use this to cover their landing. I think they call it their Back Smash tbh.
Uair~ Its deadly. Nothing too special.

His jab kills us at like...150 at the edge of smashville
His fresh ftilt kills us at like 120 at the edge of smashville(this may be in part to my terrible DI)
Grenades are a viable kill move for snake vs marth
Use grenades against him if you can

TL;DR- watch out for snakes monstrous moves and damage output. get him in the air.

Falco~ from my experience

Powershield lasers
Watch out for grab
Punish him as much as possible
He has an easy time getting onto the ledge with phantasm but you can easily bait and predict it for some pretty hefty damage
Bair kills us around 120 i think?
Uair is usually only used when we are high in the air and usually kills us if we are that high up there
Dair is a spike. Self explanatory


Dont get predictable. Pokes. Edgegaurd. Watch for grab and lasers. His jab is really good along with his spotdodge. So he's a great "boxer". Dancing blade is your friend.


EDIT: So yeah. I took care of the general information. better people get in here and say something.

 

[C.J.]

^^^
About Snake:

Hold away from Snake while he jabs you and the third hit will NEVER connect. This is true w/ a ton of characters.

Falco:
If you're on the ledge, and Falco phantasms onto the stage, fall away uair. Works everytime.

Also, if he uses uair, if you predict it, SDI it. Be careful with air dodges though. It beats ADs and can hit you with a bair afterwards every time. So gay =(

If you get grabbed @0 (Don't do that) and he CGs you to the ledge to spike it, SDI onto the stage and tech it. It's hard, but definitely doable.

 

[C.M.X]

If you get grabbed @0 (Don't do that) and he CGs you to the ledge to spike it, SDI onto the stage and tech it. It's hard, but definitely doable.

Yeah i agree, i only recently started doing this, and it is very useful, he can still follow up but its prolly the best option, good shiz.

 

[ChKn]

Uhh here's a thread for the Snake MU(idk how outdated it is) if there's any worthwhile info:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=287074

I made two other MU threads for D3 and ZSS(Sept 10).

 

[xxmoosexx]

God where have these been. I have been looking for a D3 MU Thread for ages.

Now I dont have to resort to turning Kadaj's thread into an MU Thread lol.

 

[LooftWaffles]

Use grenades against him if you can

From personal experience, I believe this to be false.



AVOID any interaction with grenades, yeah you might get a free approach here and there, but the risk reward doesnt seem worth it to me.

 

[xxmoosexx]

...I meant only uncooked grenades.

Like at the start of the match when snake throws one at you just to have some control over the match?

I find many snake players just throw an uncooked grenade at me at the beginning. I pick it up...count to 2 and then throw it back.

Don't pick up any grenades that have been out on the stage for more than a second as far as im concerned.

I guess its all personal preference.

 

[LooftWaffles]

Fair enough, if its uncooked by all means get a little tricky. Personally, Im hesitant to pick them up. I play grenades almost the same way I play bananas, use or avoid them if theyre in my path, ignore them if I can exert any amount of pressure instead. Like you said, personal preference. I just think weve all been badly burned while trying to play with his nades.

 

[xxmoosexx]

I haven't...atleast not too bad.

You don't take control of diddy's bananas? Or do you mean you don't use them?

Marth isn't great at USING his bananas but he can get control over them real well.
Thats what that whole match is about.

 

[LooftWaffles]

Its more that I consider Diddy`s bananas to be an unnecessary distraction when Marth already has the tools
to deal with Diddy- Id rather use my sword actively zoning him that going for gimmick approaches.

When I do get a banana I like saving it for added oos options. Marth is really dirty when he shields with a naner, we can punish range with a toss oos or our normal DS punish if hes close. Occasional glide tossing down to work around his approaches. GT to shieldbreaker is sex, though.

 

[xxmoosexx]

I really think it'd help you if you would take the banana and just throw it on the ground and get in between diddy and the banana lol.

As long as he will slip when he doesn't pick it up and he has no banana in his hands you don't have to worry about anything except for grab and fair which are lol options when it comes to marth...

Dude. Please. Take his bananas. Throw them behind you. Then **** diddy.

 

[Nitrix]

Don't hold onto them. Honestly if you have no experience playing AS Diddy you should probably just throw them offstage.

Diddy mains are easily the best at item control, they will anticipate you and just get it back. Then you are back to square one. Throw it off the stage, take away and chance that he will get it back.

If you have time, jump offstage and throw it up. That way it is even more time before he spawns another.