The Melee-Brawl Treaty Thread.

[L__]

...But then again, L is known to have more than 1 alias. If you've read Death Note: Another Note: Los Angeles BB Murder Cases, you would have known that he has hundreds of aliases and he might as well be me. Or is he?

Lulz @ We is twins pic.

 

[cultofrubik]

Uh ohz. Don't tell anyone. We are the same person!














[no, we aren't]

 

[Corigames]

Ok...That list threw me off. I don't see what the list is for. Anyone mind decyphering?

The list was there to show the statistics of this thread. Non biased, full-frontal facts.

The facts conclude that the majority of the signers are relatively new. Decipher that is you want, but I see it like this:

New people gravitate to Brawl. They have no reason to hold to Melee like other people do. So, when conversations about either game are brought up, they feel the need to put their two cents in on the case, because, in a lot of instances, those people are talking from experience. However, new people have no experience to speak from. People who have played Melee will, most likely, be talking from the heart while people that play Brawl will be talking from someone else's. They watched videos, played friendlies, got the techs down, etc., but, until you go to a real tournament, you can't understand the position of the people who have.

That's why people are so stubborn. They know what is right to them, and you can't change what you have experienced. People who haven't are trying to argue what they presume, which is very hard to effectively do. So, they feel they are fighting a losing battle. this is why most people are quick to jump on this treaty bandwagon. They don't want to have their baseless opinion thwarted by someone with reason behind theirs. The other small group just wants to talk about other things than this debate.

Do I want the debate to go on? No, but I do want Melee to be the better game. Is that even possible? No. Probably not. However, I at least need to have something to try to persuade me otherwise.

Also, numbers are fun.

 

[L__]

Do I want the debate to go on? No, but I do want Melee to be the better game. Is that even possible? No. Probably not. However, I at least need to have something to try to persuade me otherwise.

I do hope you mean better as in competitively. You can't argue that a game is any better than another. People have personal preferences.

 

[Proud_Smash_N00b]

...But then again, L is known to have more than 1 alias. If you've read Death Note: Another Note: Los Angeles BB Murder Cases, you would have known that he has hundreds of aliases and he might as well be me. Or is he?

Lulz @ We is twins pic.

ehh, never read it
just watched the SUBBED anime (dub ftl)

 

[L__]

>.>

Anime...are for the lazy...

Yes, I said it, what are you going to do about it?

 

[rhan]

The list was there to show the statistics of this thread. Non biased, full-frontal facts.

The facts conclude that the majority of the signers are relatively new. Decipher that is you want, but I see it like this:

New people gravitate to Brawl. They have no reason to hold to Melee like other people do. So, when conversations about either game are brought up, they feel the need to put their two cents in on the case, because, in a lot of instances, those people are talking from experience. However, new people have no experience to speak from. People who have played Melee will, most likely, be talking from the heart while people that play Brawl will be talking from someone else's. They watched videos, played friendlies, got the techs down, etc., but, until you go to a real tournament, you can't understand the position of the people who have.

That's why people are so stubborn. They know what is right to them, and you can't change what you have experienced. People who haven't are trying to argue what they presume, which is very hard to effectively do. So, they feel they are fighting a losing battle. this is why most people are quick to jump on this treaty bandwagon. They don't want to have their baseless opinion thwarted by someone with reason behind theirs. The other small group just wants to talk about other things than this debate.

Do I want the debate to go on? No, but I do want Melee to be the better game. Is that even possible? No. Probably not. However, I at least need to have something to try to persuade me otherwise.

Also, numbers are fun.

My joining date really doesn't mean much. It only means I found the site that day. I been playing smash since '04. [Not on a serious level I might add.] I got into the competitive scene really late. My first tourney I went to was 2 months before I joined here. I got dead last. Did I give up on Melee? Of course not. But I have to congratulate you on your efforts on trying to persuade the community to like Melee. Only problem with that is that people like different things. Some are hardcore. Some are casual. Nothing could change that. People who do say that Melee is better but they turn the other cheek and play Brawl probably are probably people whos comunities aren't really into tourneys or fests. Brawl could possibly be thier only connection with the other smashers. I jumped on the treaty bandwagon to help support a healthy cause for the community. If this senseless arguing doesn't stop the community would be permently divided. Smashboards will lose it's name and overall destruction to both games. I don't want to see this happen to either game.

And yes. Numbers are fun. But very confusing at times. :/

ehh, never read it
just watched the SUBBED anime (dub ftl)

Manga's are better. Sometimes anime's leave out details that manga's cover. My mom says I should read more so yeah...also the pretty pictures are always fun to look at. :3

 

[L__]

Manga's are better. Sometimes anime's leave out details that manga's cover. My mom says I should read more so yeah...also the pretty pictures are always fun to look at. :3

I hate to disappoint the mighty Rhan, but the ending of Death Note; after Light supposedly dies, you can hear Light saying,"Isn't that right? Ryuk?"

This leaves open for interpretation that Light has become a Shinigami and now resides with the other Gods of death.

Edit: Then again, you said sometimes, so my entire argument can be null and voided.

 

[rhan]

I hate to disappoint the mighty Rhan, but the ending of Death Note; after Light supposedly dies, you can hear Light saying,"Isn't that right? Ryuk?"

This leaves open for interpretation that Light has become a Shinigami and now resides with the other Gods of death.

Edit: Then again, you said sometimes, so my entire argument can be null and voided.

I was interpreting it to different animes/mangas. Not just particually to Death Note. I hate to say, I haven't read any of the Death Note mangas [yet!] I haven't been to a book store lately. *tear* The anime was awesome. Put on my top fave anime's of all time.

P.S.: Short Anime's FTW

 

[L__]

i Was Interpreting It To Different Animes/mangas. Not Just Particually To Death Note. I Hate To Say, I Haven't Read Any Of The Death Note Mangas [yet!] I Haven't Been To A Book Store Lately. *tear* The Anime Was Awesome. Put On My Top Fave Anime's Of All Time.

p.s.: Short Anime's Ftw

...why Isn't It The top?

 

[Zook]

Dammit, people talking about subbed anime/manga. You're spamming. Take personal conversations to profile messages or PMs.

Also whenever people start to talk about anime who also have anime-style avatars (and maybe sigs, even [or maybe they even have an obviously Japanese reference in their location...]), I get really tempted to whip out the flame stick and call everyone a weeaboo. Just a warning.

So, cut it out.

 

[Wrath`]

...why Isn't It The top?

I have sen better animes, so death note is my top, but not the top.


@zook, call me a weboo, I dont care, you live far away from me, so you wouldn't be affecting my life.

On topic: Buy GC controllers before they run out.
More on topic: go play what you like....it is not hard to put the dicsck in your Wii/GC and play.

 

[mantlecore77]

Hrm
Well I don't really know what this thread is doing anymore..
Anyone who DIDN'T sign wrote a really long page of advice of WHY they aren't signing.
And other conversations are going on.
But whatever.

 

[MarKO X]

^^^

I like the sig... very nice!

 

[Corigames]

My joining date really doesn't mean much. It only means I found the site that day. I been playing smash since '04. [Not on a serious level I might add.] I got into the competitive scene really late. My first tourney I went to was 2 months before I joined here.

See? this is what I'm talking about. You have to admit that it is very, very hard to stay in competitive smash and not go to this site. This site is where almost all the pros go (or use to go), holds vasts amounts of information on upcoming tournies, has areas for each region to converse in, etc. This place is the best place for competitive smash. This is why I feel that the person's join date is almost directly correlated with their time in competitive Smash. Of course there will be people outside of that assumption, but, as for my experience so far, that hasn't ever really been the case.

I got dead last. Did I give up on Melee? Of course not. But I have to congratulate you on your efforts on trying to persuade the community to like Melee.

Like I said a few days ago... If I get my account banned for pushing Melee onto people too much here on the Brawl forums, I don't care as long as I get at least 5 people to at least try. I just want the new people to try.

Only problem with that is that people like different things. Some are hardcore. Some are casual. Nothing could change that.

Though, it's generally assumed that if you are a member of this site, you aren't casual. The reason you sign up is to get better, go places, and talk to people. If you want to play item matches with your buddies, you could do that long before making an account here.

And yes, people will like Brawl. No matter what I do, say, or think, people will like Brawl more than Melee. However, I still want to try to get the Melee scene back up. I want to bring some people over. They can go back to Brawl if they want to, but I don't think anyone is going to take the chance on their own.

People who do say that Melee is better but they turn the other cheek and play Brawl probably are probably people whos comunities aren't really into tourneys or fests. Brawl could possibly be thier only connection with the other smashers.

Exactly...

I jumped on the treaty bandwagon to help support a healthy cause for the community. If this senseless arguing doesn't stop the community would be permanently divided. Smashboards will lose it's name and overall destruction to both games. I don't want to see this happen to either game.

I too don't want to see both games destroyed. I can enjoy myself in Brawl if there are items and blah balh blah, but not when I play serious. I have balls of fun in Melee after a heated competition. If you ever 3 stock some SoCal guys and have the whole AZ crew behind you singing "Jump on it" after every one of their deaths, you would know what I mean. I just didn't see that same excitement at those other tournies.

I don't think this treaty will do anything. There will always be ignorant people like the newest of new joiners, there will always be stubborn people like me, and there will always be argumentative people like Jack Keiser, and this treaty isn't going to do much to stop any of it. Plus, if someone ever says some nasty things about Melee (Not like "Melee's mom is fat" or anything >_>), I feel inclined to set them straight. I like to do so by putting quite a few "*"s in my posts too. That's just the way I like to talk when I'm anything but completely chilled like now.

I want the community to be healthy, not silent though. If you want to say something, you should be able to say it.

PS, in one month, all of the new kids are going to show up at my gaming school. Every year we get a whole bunch of pricks that think they are the best Melee players ever. We put them in their place. However, we do teach them what they need to know to get better if they stick around after their *** kicking. This year, I'm not sure if that's going to happen. It's already happened over the summer semester when a new guy showed up and I did that to him, but, afterward, he asked if we could play Brawl since he was better in that. I still beat his ***, but that worried me. What if all the new people only play Brawl? Will I get the chance to show them how to get good in Melee?

I don't want it to die off.

 

[rhan]

See? this is what I'm talking about. You have to admit that it is very, very hard to stay in competitive smash and not go to this site. This site is where almost all the pros go (or use to go), holds vasts amounts of information on upcoming tournies, has areas for each region to converse in, etc. This place is the best place for competitive smash. This is why I feel that the person's join date is almost directly correlated with their time in competitive Smash. Of course there will be people outside of that assumption, but, as for my experience so far, that hasn't ever really been the case.

Yes it is hard. I met so many people and just being in a room full smashers who knew more then you and was willing to teach/play you at anytime. Since I found the site I been to many more tournies and met a lot more smashers in my community. I was dissappointed by Brawl. I don't even think another smash game that plays like Melee with all the AT's and machanics would even be as good as Melee.

Like I said a few days ago... If I get my account banned for pushing Melee onto people too much here on the Brawl forums, I don't care as long as I get at least 5 people to at least try. I just want the new people to try.

Yeah. I can understand this. Most of these Brawlers in my community says that they have never touched Melee in thier life. A few tournies ago, I was playing a simple match with a player named Toasty[known around my area for doing the YYG]. It draw'd a tiny crowd. A few Brawlers came to watch and I heard one of them say that this game is just to fast to comprehend. [or something like that] I do also want a few other these Brawl players to try Melee out. But to play a game like Melee you have to understand at least how the game works. Giving someone that never played Melee in thier life a controller to play it, is like giving a kid a gun. It's not gonna end well and the overall effect will make them not want to touch/look the game.

Though, it's generally assumed that if you are a member of this site, you aren't casual. The reason you sign up is to get better, go places, and talk to people. If you want to play item matches with your buddies, you could do that long before making an account here.

And yes, people will like Brawl. No matter what I do, say, or think, people will like Brawl more than Melee. However, I still want to try to get the Melee scene back up. I want to bring some people over. They can go back to Brawl if they want to, but I don't think anyone is going to take the chance on their own.

I see.

I too don't want to see both games destroyed. I can enjoy myself in Brawl if there are items and blah balh blah, but not when I play serious. I have balls of fun in Melee after a heated competition. If you ever 3 stock some SoCal guys and have the whole AZ crew behind you singing "Jump on it" after every one of their deaths, you would know what I mean. I just didn't see that same excitement at those other tournies.

I can relate to the "Jump on it" thing. We surprised our community with our skills in Melee. We're only teenagers yet we could give the college smashers a decent challenge. Even though we lost a crew battle we showed dedication to the game and they respected us for that. And with the excitment part of your post. Yeah. I could agree with you on that. But I hate to say it some people just go with the flow. Brawl is what's popular now. And since many newbies are joining now they throw thier money in and the higher level smashers will always be ther ones that come out and win that money. :/

I don't think this treaty will do anything. There will always be ignorant people like the newest of new joiners, there will always be stubborn people like me, and there will always be argumentative people like Jack Keiser, and this treaty isn't going to do much to stop any of it. Plus, if someone ever says some nasty things about Melee (Not like "Melee's mom is fat" or anything >_>), I feel inclined to set them straight. I like to do so by putting quite a few "*"s in my posts too. That's just the way I like to talk when I'm anything but completely chilled like now.

I want the community to be healthy, not silent though. If you want to say something, you should be able to say it.

This treaty may not work. But sometimes people need something to believe in. Even if this thread turns into an all out flame fest. People would still want something to try to keep the peace. As long as we can respectfully disscuss our POV's of both games, then this treaty could become the bond between both communities.

PS, in one month, all of the new kids are going to show up at my gaming school. Every year we get a whole bunch of pricks that think they are the best Melee players ever. We put them in their place. However, we do teach them what they need to know to get better if they stick around after their *** kicking. This year, I'm not sure if that's going to happen. It's already happened over the summer semester when a new guy showed up and I did that to him, but, afterward, he asked if we could play Brawl since he was better in that. I still beat his ***, but that worried me. What if all the new people only play Brawl? Will I get the chance to show them how to get good in Melee?

I don't want it to die off.

That is a scary thought...I don't know what to say to that.....

...why Isn't It The top?

It's close to top. I still like a few others. D.N.Angel stay on my top for life!

 

[Byronman]

I don't want it to die off.

To be honest I don't see how melee could ever die off. But if it did well...progress is progress.

 

[Corigames]

Progress is progress? WTF is that suppose to mean? That because you don't give two ****s about a game that I shouldn't, especially when a bunch of people who weren't in the community a year ago decide, using majority vote, that the superior game is miraculously not?

No, this isn't even progress.

 

[Byronman]

Progress is progress? WTF is that suppose to mean? That because you don't give two ****s about a game that I shouldn't, especially when a bunch of people who weren't in the community a year ago decide, using majority vote, that the superior game is miraculously not?

No, this isn't even progress.

I care about melee. And if you don't want melee to die out, turn on all the new people to it and show them what is possible after practice and why it is the better game.

But this game is progress. Just because it is superior in terms of competitive play does not make it all around better. You must keep casual players in mind here.

 

[Reaver197]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought this was supposed to be a competitive smash community and website.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought this was supposed to be a competitive smash community and website.

In all technicality, that isn't entirely true. The banner at the top of the site says 'The Largest Smash Bros. Community', which implies nothing about competition. Not to mention if this was a strictly competitive site, there wouldn't even BE forum boards like GBD.

 

[Bowser King]

I only signed because I play both melee and brawl. I lose more in brawl and have a better connection with melee but I still play brawl once in a while.

As for the people who bring up join dates. Join dates show something. As coreygames chart shows, most people who signed joined in '08. Now this dosen't mean every person that joined in '08 is a noob and melee lover but a lot of them did join for brawl. Therefore the whole melee vs brawl debate is a bit 1 sided. The rush of newcomers in '08 was more then I have seen (since january 07, so I only have a history of 1 1/2 years).

I joined for melee (well I didn't really join, I just read for 5 months before I decided to join ) but brawl was a factor that lead me to join.

 

[Reaver197]

In all technicality, that isn't entirely true. The banner at the top of the site says 'The Largest Smash Bros. Community', which implies nothing about competition. Not to mention if this was a strictly competitive site, there wouldn't even BE forum boards like GBD.

Yeah, in all earnestness, I'm never really sure what this community defines itself as. With the Melee boards, it really very much feels like a competitive, serious gaming community, but with the Brawl boards, it's much more (I hate to use this word) casual and loose. But, before Brawl, it seems to me that either it was founded as a competitive community or was transformed into one by Melee.

So, I guess the emergence of Brawl on smashboards is more than just issue of which game is played, but has brought a clash of core ideologies. If that's the issue, there might not really be a way to effectively unite the two sides into a single cohesive community, because such communities seem to be based upon and united by all of them sharing a particular ideology about how to approach and play a game.

Ergh, I hate to speculate it, but could we really have made an irreconcilable issue?

 

[Corigames]

I say we break Brawl off from SWF and make it Melee World Forums... :D

 

[TengenToppaDrill]

*Currently signing treaty* Please wait. This may take a few moments... *complete*

 

[otg]

I only signed because I play both melee and brawl. I lose more in brawl and have a better connection with melee but I still play brawl once in a while.

As for the people who bring up join dates. Join dates show something. As coreygames chart shows, most people who signed joined in '08. Now this dosen't mean every person that joined in '08 is a noob and melee lover but a lot of them did join for brawl. Therefore the whole melee vs brawl debate is a bit 1 sided. The rush of newcomers in '08 was more then I have seen (since january 07, so I only have a history of 1 1/2 years).

I joined for melee (well I didn't really join, I just read for 5 months before I decided to join ) but brawl was a factor that lead me to join.

Agreed, I was a lurker for over a year before I joined but I joined because I loved Melee and wanted to get better but the MAIN reason was because Pokemon Trainer was announced on the DOJO. I was all like "waaaat, this game is gonna be dope". Flash forward to January, disappointment, but willingness to play. Flash forward to today.... well you get the idea.

 

[Union of Darkness]

I say we break Brawl off from SWF and make it Melee World Forums... :D

Right, that'll solve EVERYTHING.

Not.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

I'll sign the treaty. I'm for both Melee and Brawl. Though, I haven't played Melee in forever. I might go back to it later for some flashback fun.

 

[Corigames]

Right, that'll solve EVERYTHING.

I know, right?

Not.

Oh no, he was being sarcastic... NOOOOOOoooooo!!! I have been fooled. If only I had been sarcastic too, I could have countered his wit with my own... oh wait.

 

[Stroupes]

I say we break Brawl off from SWF and make it Melee World Forums... :D

I think maybe that could work.
It would probably solve the fighting, two separate communities.

Then there could be a site like this, with both communities.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Yeah, in all earnestness, I'm never really sure what this community defines itself as. With the Melee boards, it really very much feels like a competitive, serious gaming community, but with the Brawl boards, it's much more (I hate to use this word) casual and loose. But, before Brawl, it seems to me that either it was founded as a competitive community or was transformed into one by Melee.

So, I guess the emergence of Brawl on smashboards is more than just issue of which game is played, but has brought a clash of core ideologies. If that's the issue, there might not really be a way to effectively unite the two sides into a single cohesive community, because such communities seem to be based upon and united by all of them sharing a particular ideology about how to approach and play a game.

Ergh, I hate to speculate it, but could we really have made an irreconcilable issue?

IIRC, the origins of SWF was brought up a while back in a debate I was in. Supposedly, someone started SWF as a simple Smash fan forum, and as time went on the people who were using the forum as a way to keep in touch and set up mini-Smashfests started using the forums to collaborate about playing competitively. Over time, SWF grew into the largest competitive Smash site on the net.

Assuming this is indeed true (and the guy talking in the debate back then wasn't just talking out of his a**), I find this whole situation ironic, because in a way SWF would be returning to form; it started out as a non-competitive fan site, and now it's getting closer to that every day. I also find it sad because we just MIGHT be coming to an irreconcilable problem. I mean, the two sects of players (casual and competitive) aren't technically mutually exclusive, but the people who make up the groups might be, if GBD is any indication.

So, here's to hoping. And here's to hoping that Yuna doesn't come in to bash us for hoping.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

problem being --; none of the good brawl players really enjoy playing brawl, or posting on the forums for that matter rofl.

how does it feel, to be so alone.

 

[Bowser King]

I think maybe that could work.
It would probably solve the fighting, two separate communities.

Then there could be a site like this, with both communities.

Then where would the rest of the threads go? Like the pool room, PC, light house? Which community would get which? That idea would never work.

 

[Jack Kieser]

problem being --; none of the good brawl players really enjoy playing brawl, or posting on the forums for that matter rofl.

how does it feel, to be so alone.

I don't buy that. If you don't like a game, you shouldn't play it, unless you're in the pro circuit (i.e., that is your ONLY/PREDOMINANT form of income) and it's your job to play said game. If these people really hated Brawl so much, they'd be playing Melee instead.

 

[BigRick]

No more ppl joining melee tourneys so they can't make $$$ off of them

 

[Leprechaun_Drunk]

I'll sign this treaty.

 

[Stroupes]

Then where would the rest of the threads go? Like the pool room, PC, light house? Which community would get which? That idea would never work.

The Brawl site would get them.
Most competitive Melee pros don't care about things like the Pool Room, at least on a forum where they're there to discuss tournaments or whatever about Melee.
I don't think I've ever seen an expert player casually browsing the Pool Room, looking for a topic about insect encounters, or who your favorite teacher was in elementary school.

Alternatively, each would get a Pool Room, Light house, etc.

 

[pianodude700]

*signs*
everything smash is officially epic in my book

 

[Bowser King]

The Brawl site would get them.
Most competitive Melee pros don't care about things like the Pool Room, at least on a forum where they're there to discuss tournaments or whatever about Melee.
I don't think I've ever seen an expert player casually browsing the Pool Room, looking for a topic about insect encounters, or who your favorite teacher was in elementary school.

Alternatively, each would get a Pool Room, Light house, etc.

So, I would have to join both forums? Fail. You really think by seperating it's going to do anything? The melee room and brawl room are seperate here to but we still get debates. They won't stop because you seperated them, they would only be a smaller "problem".

 

[Johnthegalactic]

I sign treaty.
These are both great games, they are different enough to me that I cannot set one down and let the other gather dust. They play different, work different, but are both great iterations of the Smash Bros. Legacy.

Stroupes, nice avatar.