The "Metaknight should/will be banned" thread.

[Lord Viper]

What about just banning his neutral b?

It can be blocked, and a good amount of attacks can break it like Samus's Charge Blaster full blast, (not sure about the smaller one's).

 

[RDK]

I don't think people ban single moves really. You ban the character or you don't. A technique maybe (infinite caping, wobbling) but not a single move :/ I don't think that has ever been done...

It's not the single move that's the problem; it's how the move is used. Using moves to a certain objective (I.E., infinite-caping, stalling, inf. chaingrabbing, etc.) in order to achieve a certain effect is sometimes banned.

For example: infinite caping isn't bad in and of itself. Using it to stall the match is.

 

[Foxtrotter]

You have got to be ****ing kidding me.

*looks at what self just said*

*facepalms*

Stupidity of a semi-competitive player, right there!

Sorry. I wasn't thinking.

 

[SOVAman]

Yoshi doesn't do **** against MK though besides the chaingrab. It's not like he stands a chance, even with the CG...

I know but I was just making a point cuz someone said he can't be CGed

 

[Lone Shadow]

Meta Knight, shouldn't, and hopefully will not be banned.

If he will, it will prove that we are all n00bs and can't take him on because he's "too strong",
which is plain BS.

And we aren't weak and pathetic, now are we? We can take on meta knight! If we want to, we can drag him accross the floor and chain grab him into oblivion!

You just need to know how. And we DO know how. So banning MK = BS

Dont forget that a LOT of people play to win, so your going to see a lot of mk's...but ya I do believe its possible to beat him but its real hard atm imo

 

[Julz]

I don't think people ban single moves really. You ban the character or you don't. A technique maybe (infinite caping, wobbling) but not a single move :/ I don't think that has ever been done...

take away all of his b moves using the controller configurations?

 

[Foxtrotter]

take away all of his b moves using the controller configurations?

Lord, for a second I thought you were being serious. XD



Anywho, I found a thread discussing a potential Yoshi advantage vs. Meta Knight:

Right here.

 

[SOVAman]

Yea of coarse he can be beaten but, who would like to go to a tournament and just play MK's (I sure wouldn't) that would ruin the competitive scene it has not happened yet but at this rate it will. Everyone is starting to second or main him.

 

[Fox Hater]

Unless he becomes something unbeatable then its no use to ban him.

Instead of doing this what should be done is a thread on tactics for each character on how to beat MK with each characters. Also what moves stop the tornado, how to punish his Up b. good edge guarding techs and so on. We have done that on PR and people are improving a lot. Hell in the last tournament a Peach won 1st place and **** he make her look top tier. ill upload the vid soon.

Ex,

Marth

Moves that stop the tornado

down B stops all his attacks good agains MK neutral B and foward B.

all tips attacks stop his whorenado still got to be carefull.

When an MK uses neutral B close to you; Block w8 for it to stop punish with dancing blade( foward B).

When he is recovering if he uses Up b high in the air: w8 for him to get close enough to do glide attack and punish with Up B.

his down smash punish with dancing blade: if MK hits you with his first hit of the down smash then you can down smash him(tip FTW) or Up B Him. Up smash if on High percentage.

if he is rushing you: block , either grab, dancing blade or up B.

Punish all his up b with bair, counter or Up B.

also down tilt is good against MK.

There it is my friends. Here is a quick guide on how to punish several moves with marth. I think everyone Instead of looking for a way to ban him, what should be done is clearly create a Thread on how to punish MK attacks.

I went to evo 2k8 and in all Friendlies I play against an MK i managed to win them all with marth. Just in case My main Is DK. So it felt good to be able to beat randoms MK, 2 stocks and everything.

There are many characters that can stop MK whorenado and punish him severly you just have to dedicate to win.

In fast1 M2K had to change to DDD because the Wario player was playing real good againts his MK

 

[Foxtrotter]

Yea of coarse he can be beaten but, who would like to go to a tournament and just play MK's (I sure wouldn't) that would ruin the competitive scene it has not happened yet but at this rate it will. Everyone is starting to second or main him.

If you are a dedicated Brawler, in my opinion, you would stick with your main.

I'd never leave Fox or Spammy McArrow Pit.

The only reason I sort of secondary Meta Knight is because I played with him before he was cool.

 

[SOVAman]

Lord, for a second I thought you were being serious. XD



Anywho, I found a thread discussing a potential Yoshi advantage vs. Meta Knight:

Right here.

I don't agree with that thread and I main yoshi no character has a advantage specially yoshi.

Unless he becomes something unbeatable then its no use to ban him.

Instead of doing this what should be done is a thread on tactics for each character on how to beat MK with each characters. Also what moves stop the tornado, how to punish his Up b. good edge guarding techs and so on. We have done that on PR and people are improving a lot. Hell in the last tournament a Peach won 1st place and **** he make her look top tier. ill upload the vid soon.

He will be beaten but he still places in the top 8 consistently to much 2 or 3 or 4 places in the top a almost every tournament and wins to much

 

[Lone Shadow]

If you are a dedicated Brawler, in my opinion, you would stick with your main.

I'd never leave Fox or Spammy McArrow Pit.

The only reason I sort of secondary Meta Knight is because I played with him before he was cool.

It's funny, first time I played brawl at a friends house, I had heard something about a character named mk, I was really interested in him just because of his name lol...anyways I liked him a lot but I was getting ***** in FFA with my friends and they said he sucked XD...now look where we are lol

 

[Doggalina]

If you are a dedicated Brawler, in my opinion, you would stick with your main.

I'd never leave Fox or Spammy McArrow Pit.

The only reason I sort of secondary Meta Knight is because I played with him before he was cool.

Do you know what a scrub is? Because that is a very scrubby thing to say.

If you play to win, you use whichever character gives you the best chance of winning. If that turns out to be MK, you use him. If you main Falcon but then switch to MK, there's nothing wrong with that. If you win something with MK, you walk away with more money than you would if you go in and get ***** as Falcon.

 

[TheSMASHtyke]

I'm an MK main. I am by far not the best with him, but MK is definitely beatable.

He dies from getting hit by a ****ing pillow. Spaced projectile spam also helps. Big, Heavy characters that have hard to interecpt recovery (Dedede, R.O.B.) also give him a bit of a challenge.

This is all from personal experianc though, so there are definately some holes in this.

 

[Lone Shadow]

Do you know what a scrub is? Because that is a very scrubby thing to say.

If you play to win, you use whichever character gives you the best chance of winning. If that turns out to be MK, you use him. If you main Falcon but then switch to MK, there's nothing wrong with that. If you win something with MK, you walk away with more money than you would if you go in and get ***** as Falcon.

First off, he said "imo" second, some people like some variety...then again if winning is what you only want, fine. But imo, Varitety+Playing to win=Most fun =)

 

[SOVAman]

First off, he said "imo" second, some people like some variety...then again if winning is what you only want, fine. But imo, Varitety+Playing to win=Most fun =)

with money on the line who gives a d*mn about fun

 

[Foxtrotter]

Do you know what a scrub is? Because that is a very scrubby thing to say.

If you play to win, you use whichever character gives you the best chance of winning. If that turns out to be MK, you use him. If you main Falcon but then switch to MK, there's nothing wrong with that. If you win something with MK, you walk away with more money than you would if you go in and get ***** as Falcon.

No, I am not a scrub, I am just dedicated.

In Melee, people wouldn't touch Fox for the fact that he was "the best". People managed to win tournaments, heck, big old cash tournaments with characters other than Fox McCloud.

Similarly, people in Brawl won't touch Meta Knight, or Snake, or whoever because they're over-played or top tier. I'm dedicated to making Fox, or Pit, or Pika, or even Pokemon Trainer one of those seriously good characters.

And before anybody directs me to it, yes, I have read the "Play to Win" essay-thing.

 

[Doggalina]

First off, he said "imo" second, some people like some variety...then again if winning is what you only want, fine. But imo, Varitety+Playing to win=Most fun =)

as lilb93 said, "fun" isn't the number one priority in competitive play. Winning is. However, playing to win tends to be fun.

And just because he said "imo" doesn't mean I can give him a free pass. If those are his opinions, then he has a scrub mentality.

EDIT: Foxtrotter, if you've read the Play to Win essay, then you obviously skipped the parts about scrubs. A scrub is somebody who doesn't play to win. A scrub plays with made up rules (aka 'honor')

 

[Lone Shadow]

with money on the line who gives a d*mn about fun

I like money as much as the next person, but its gets pretty boring with only mk's...also, if people play smash JUST to win money and not for the game then I think you should quit smash in general...wtf is the point in playing a game just for money, go play poker or something

 

[SOVAman]

as lilb93 said, "fun" isn't the number one priority in competitive play. Winning is. However, playing to win tends to be fun.

And just because he said "imo" doesn't mean I can give him a free pass. If those are his opinions, then he has a scrub mentality.

EDIT: Foxtrotter, if you've read the Play to Win essay, then you obviously skipped the parts about scrubs. A scrub is somebody who doesn't play to win. A scrub plays with made up rules (aka 'honor')

QFT

10eggs

 

[psykoplympton]

we shouldnt even worry about MK. i just watched chudat(kirby) vs chillen(MK) and chudat won the grand finals. Mk is not an unbeatable god especially since kirby beat him.

and i play to win. i think winning is fun. therefore i play for fun.

 

[SOVAman]

I like money as much as the next person, but its gets pretty boring with only mk's...also, if people play smash JUST to win money and not for the game then I think you should quit smash in general...wtf is the point in playing a game just for money, go play poker or something

People play for money because they know they can win and they will keep using MK until he is banned. Money can convince a lot of people to use a Character.

 

[Snail]

I'm an MK main. I am by far not the best with him, but MK is definitely beatable.

He dies from getting hit by a ****ing pillow. Spaced projectile spam also helps. Big, Heavy characters that have hard to interecpt recovery (Dedede, R.O.B.) also give him a bit of a challenge.

This is all from personal experianc though, so there are definately some holes in this.

Giving MK "a bit of a challenge" is the best any character in this game can do, though. There's just no character that truly beats him. If the MK you're fighting is equally good/better than you, there's no way you'll win. Unless you play Snake.

To be honest, I think MK is a cheap piece of **** but we can't ban him until he dominates even more than he already does.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Why don't we stop looking at this from the point of view of "There's a slight chance MK won't be running every tournament a year from now" and instead think about how much the tournament scene would be enriched by the exclusion of MK.

At high level (nothing else matters, and if you don't play brawl at high level and go to tourneys please kindly stop posting here), MK has no counters or even matchups, and is in fact most characters' worst matchup. How many more characters would be tourney viable if MK was banned? How much more exciting and competitive and varied would the tournament scene be if MK was banned? Just think about these things.

Also, a ban would definitely NOT create a domino effect. Every other character in the game, even Snake and DDD, has bad matchups, regardless of tier.

Lastly I'd like you to really ask yourself, why is a ban impossible? We ban items and stages without a second thought. Why is banning a character such a big deal if it would make the tournament scene so much better?

It has nothing to do with the intentions of the creators of the game. If it were up to them we'd be playing on every stage for 2 minutes with items on. We fixed their game to make it more competitively viable. There is absolutely NO difference between fixing these things and removing a character with the same purpose in mind. You people really need to open your mind.

This post was what really convinced me in thumb's thread. JC is too good.

 

[Lone Shadow]

People play for money because they know they can win and they will keep using MK until he is banned. Money can convince a lot of people to use a Character.

I understand what you mean...money is pretty poweful lol ;D

 

[fkacyan]

I don't want him banned, but you won't see me complaining if he is.

 

[missingnomaster]

So when Metaknight is the only character that places in tourneys, not because he's unbeatable, but because he's so much easier to do well with, we're just gonna leave it like that?

 

[Lone Shadow]

So when the Metaknight is the only character that places in tourneys, not because he's unbeatable, but because he's so much easier to do well with, we're just gonna leave it like that?

I think theres some rule or something where if only one character is being played its banned...not sure someone correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Snail]

I think theres some rule or something where if only one character is being played its banned...not sure someone correct me if I'm wrong

He's not the only one being played... yet. I'd love to see him banned but I don't think it'll happen... At least, not yet.

 

[Uffe]

If you ban a character just because you can't beat him, then you might as well ban other characters that are giving you a hard time. I mean c'mon, if that's the case, then you might as well ban the new roster. Those characters are really amped and we all know they don't deserve that kind of power. You might as well go back to playing Melee if this is the case.

 

[Izaw]

Banning MK... hmmh, wouldn't bother me too much. It's way too early though.

Also one more thing, MK does not have bad match-ups, but he does have a stage that should be counter-pickable against him?...Right?

I mean, against MKs I choose Norfair for counter-pick. Oh and I play Link.. so that stage might not be as good for every character.

 

[Lone Shadow]

He's not the only one being played... yet. I'd love to see him banned but I don't think it'll happen... At least, not yet.

I know but even without a tier list hes like over 90% of the contestants...imagine what it'll be once a tier DOES come out 0.o

 

[Fox Hater]

wow mi post went unotice in like wow. anyways Ill post it again and after this if people arent uo to the task, well when I come back to the States Ill **** any MK that cross my path jejej

Instead of doing this what should be done is a thread on tactics for each character on how to beat MK with each characters. Also what moves stop the tornado, how to punish his Up b. good edge guarding techs and so on. We have done that on PR and people are improving a lot. Hell in the last tournament a Peach won 1st place and **** he make her look top tier. ill upload the vid soon.

Ex,

Marth

Moves that stop the tornado

down B stops all his attacks good agains MK neutral B and foward B.

all tips attacks stop his whorenado still got to be carefull.

When an MK uses neutral B close to you; Block w8 for it to stop punish with dancing blade( foward B).

When he is recovering if he uses Up b high in the air: w8 for him to get close enough to do glide attack and punish with Up B.

his down smash punish with dancing blade: if MK hits you with his first hit of the down smash then you can down smash him(tip FTW) or Up B Him. Up smash if on High percentage.

if he is rushing you: block , either grab, dancing blade or up B.

Punish all his up b with bair, counter or Up B.

also down tilt is good against MK.

There it is my friends. Here is a quick guide on how to punish several moves with marth. I think everyone Instead of looking for a way to ban him, what should be done is clearly create a Thread on how to punish MK attacks.

I went to evo 2k8 and in all Friendlies I play against an MK i managed to win them all with marth. Just in case My main Is DK. So it felt good to be able to beat randoms MK, 2 stocks and everything.

There are many characters that can stop MK whorenado and punish him severly you just have to dedicate to win.

 

[Kiwikomix]

I think it would be interesting to, rather than banning MK, simply take him out of the competitive scene for a month. It would show who can handle themselves in a non-MK matchup, plus it would get a lot more use from every other character.
Keep wishing, right?

 

[Espy Rose]

I personally count the days until Meta is banned, but it won't be for quite some time after this.

I suggest that EVERYONE plays Meta Knight at tournaments, and when asked why, give the reason: "Because I have the best chance at winning when I play him."

Hopefully that'll speed up the banning process.

I don't hate Meta Knight, but I hate how easy it is to pick him up and win.

 

[otg]

The fact that people are even considering banning MK just shows how unbalanced this game is. I think it's time that people just acknowledge that this game should not be played at a competitive level, because as of right now, the Brawl metagame is falling apart faster than the Melee one.

Everyday I come to the Brawl boards hoping to find something good, and everyday it just gets worse. At what point and time does this game become unplayable?

 

[Snowstalker]

Except no one out ranges MK, no one can chain grab him, and no one can gimp him at low percents.
:D

Yoshi can CG Meta Knight.

 

[PK-ow!]

The fact that people are even considering banning MK just shows how unbalanced this game is. I think it's time that people just acknowledge that this game should not be played at a competitive level, because as of right now, the Brawl metagame is falling apart faster than the Melee one.

How is abandoning Brawl competitive going to help its metagame? It's too soon to say it's hopeless.

Also your first argument is nothing more than argumentum ad populum, unless it's just poorly formed. Here, parity of argument: "The fact that people are even considering Pit's arrows to be broken just shows how unbalanced this game is." Doesn't work.

Everyday I come to the Brawl boards hoping to find something good, and everyday it just gets worse. At what point and time does this game become unplayable?

When Meta dominates in SP's sense from the OP - or is so close that everyone gets tired of the game anyway.
We don't need to choose when Brawl is dead. If it does, it should just happen.

 

[psykoplympton]

I personally count the days until Meta is banned, but it won't be for quite some time after this.

I suggest that EVERYONE plays Meta Knight at tournaments, and when asked why, give the reason: "Because I have the best chance at winning when I play him."

Hopefully that'll speed up the banning process.

I don't hate Meta Knight, but I hate how easy it is to pick him up and win.

that was the same for shiek when melee first came out. she was really good and had a lot of advantages over a lot of chars. then people got used to her and she got lowered on the teir list.you people just arent used to mk yet. not saying i am. once we are then MK wont be as difficult. and besides, the game hasnt even been out for a year. the metagames of some characters are hardly developed and once they are keeping MK in would only help those characters.

 

[Foxtrotter]

*wanders in*

Took a shower. Let's get back to the flaming, now, shall we? ;P

Also your first argument is nothing more than argumentum ad populum, unless it's just poorly formed. Here, parity of argument: "The fact that people are even considering Pit's arrows to be broken just shows how unbalanced this game is." Doesn't work.

... People are considering Pit's arrows to be broken... ?

Oo