The "Metaknight should/will be banned" thread.

[egan]

i do hate metaknight though! too many brokenish moves

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I hate MK but I don't really think he should be banned yet. And I think that like you said SP, there is no reason to discuss if everyone switched to Meta, because that would never happen, I know that I for one would never do that.

 

[RDK]

1) You don't exist.
2) What the hell are you talking about? There is still plenty of diversity in top 8s and what not. Just a lack of diversity for those who actually win.

Don't make up facts.

I wasn't making up facts. I was speaking hypothetically. If you're not intelligent enough to realize that, then it was probably my fault for not stating it.

Also, it's becoming increasingly obvious that you antagonize people for holding different views than you.

 

[PK-ow!]

If you can't get through Pit's arrows, then you fail at the game and should probably just stop playing it. I'm not directing this at you, I'm just saying whoever says Pit's arrows are broken is probably someone who loses to Pit all the time because of his arrows.

You guys completely missed my point. I suppose I just retract the statement.

There is no reason in discussing that hypothetical because it'll never actually happen.

And FYI, at the tournaments I attend, MK/Snake rarely ever win. Pikachu (Anther) is almost always first.

OMG, Pikachu for God tier.

I hate MK but I don't really think he should be banned yet. And I think that like you said SP, there is no reason to discuss if everyone switched to Meta, because that would never happen, I know that I for one would never do that.

It's interesting, though. So, if a character really was broken beyond belief, but because not enough people liked him / not enough wanted to switch mains, the character was not actually taking over the metagame - then this character would evade a ban forever?

So it's not about the dispositional property, but the actuality? Not tier by theory, but tier by tourney performance?

 

[otg]

I wasn't making up facts. I was speaking hypothetically. If you're not intelligent enough to realize that, then it was probably my fault for not stating it.

Also, it's becoming increasingly obvious that you antagonize people for holding different views than you.

A growing trend within SWF.

 

[JonBeBonanza]

This is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO stupid.


That's really all that needs to be said.

Quit whining, and step it up.


****!

 

[gunterrsmash01]

Seriously i've beaten metaknights. and ive lost to them too. if a metaknight beats you, its probably more because he is a better player then u, not cause he uses metaknight. people just think hes broken because he is sooooo easy to use.

 

[ShortFuse]

I've been playing Smash since the 64 days and played Melee competitively.
Seriously, part of me would love to see MetaKnight banned but I doubt it's going to happen. MetaKnight cannot be banned because, as SP stated, he's not that broken.

I have no doubt whatsoever that he is a broken character. He is far too good. I have no problems with any character when I use my main (Marth). But for MetaKnight, I have to use my alt: Fox.
He seems to really not fit in Brawl. Snake can be "broken" but he's not as broken because of his lack of speed in the air. There is no way to really IMPROVE MetaKnight, now that I think of it (to some being lightweight is a benefit since it typically means you're harder to combo). What more does he need?

And Fox isn't really that good of an option against MK, but I rely on racking up %, with dAir, uTilt and laser and saving (stale-move negation) my uSmash to nearly once per stock to dAir=>uSmash KO him.

What's sad is the status of Brawl. Unless some gamechanging mechanic comes out (like WaveDashing or L-Cancel) or a code injection, tournament approved, game rebalance, a huge part of the competitive scene will be solely based on your Anti-MetaKnight play.
It distracts so much because you can play a great with character x or y, but in the end it'll come down to "Oh, but how good are you against MetaKnight?" and that's really a shame.
Melee, despite how great some characters were, was very balanced. Maybe not the best ever, but by about 2004-2006, I became a believer of "tires don exits". I hope the same can be said about Brawl.

I was hoping Brawl to be a whole new style of competitive fighting. The slower paced fighting, easier powershielding and less combos make it more about the metagame than combo'ing. It built on what Melee a made unique fighter and expanded it further.

But there's still that one terrible aspect of competitive Brawl and that has become MetaKnight. He won't get banned, but he will become the shameful stain of the competitive scene.

As I said before, having to learn how to counter MetaKnight distracts so much. I've gotten to the point where I've almost given up on Smash, after 10 years of playing. The competitive scene will probably end up to be less than that of Melee and Brawl, relatively speaking in terms of percent of Brawl owners that play competitively. It will probably not endure as long as Melee did, and I'm sorry to say this, but it'll be because of MetaKnight. Too many people will get turned off by this. The ruined balance has happened to many fighting games and, unfortunately, I think the same will happen with Brawl.

 

[Tyr_03]

Rather than complaining about how good MK is, I just started using him as a secondary. Imagine that.

 

[KoJ]

Seriously i've beaten metaknights. and ive lost to them too. if a metaknight beats you, its probably more because he is a better player then u, not cause he uses metaknight. people just think hes broken because he is sooooo easy to use.

The fact that he has the best approach in the game, no bad matchups, and a ridiculous gimping advantage doesn't hurt.

Rather than complaining about how good MK is, I just started using him as a secondary. Imagine that.

Some people who don't like Meta Knight will be forced to play a character they don't enjoy to use. Imagine that.

 

[Levitas]

I wasn't making up facts. I was speaking hypothetically. If you're not intelligent enough to realize that, then it was probably my fault for not stating it.

Also, it's becoming increasingly obvious that you antagonize people for holding different views than you.

He's right that you don't exist, though.

 

[RDK]

He's right that you don't exist, though.

Not really. I just don't like any of you.

But believe what you will; I don't really care.

 

[LordoftheMorning]

Lucario, Marth, and Shiek for top tierz! Seriously when I first came to Smashboards I really didn't know that some characters had good and bad match-ups. I was all intimidated by teirs. I actually picked Metaknight to main before I knew he was so good. But he's getting boring now. I think eventually the MK "fad" will die down and maybe if more were focussed on their favorite character instead of just MK, new techniques would be innovated. Lucario is my destiny! There are definitely some characters whose potential I think has yet to be recognized.

Edit: I really think tiers are the devil's idea. Mind over matter men!

 

[Levitas]

that came out of nowhere. I was merely commenting that you weren't at the circuit event.

 

[phish-it]

You know what I wish. I wish Metaknight was better than he is now, thats right, I wish he was so undoubtedly good that he would dominate the competetive scene so drastically that there would be no choice but to ban him. Because in his current state, he's just on the borderline of that, not quite broken enough to be banned, but so overpowered that he wins 90% of tournaments...

 

[cutter]

I think it would be cool if tourney directors started experimenting with MK-free tournaments. If you're a TO, you can set whatever rules you want like banning MK if you wish. There's nothing stopping you.

 

[RDK]

I think it would be cool if tourney directors started experimenting with MK-free tournaments. If you're a TO, you can set whatever rules you want like banning MK if you wish. There's nothing stopping you.

I just think it would be interesting to see many of the more unused characters' potential being tapped. Just as an experiment, tournaments like that could open up new things for the middle and lowish-tiers.

that came out of nowhere. I was merely commenting that you weren't at the circuit event.

I know I wasn't at the circuit event; I woke up the morning of it with a terrible case of the stomach flu. It's not like I tell people I'm going to go to an event, and then laugh to myself and say "LOL, DUMBF*CKS!!11!" I'm incredibly busy, and I'm almost always out of town when one of the bigger events happen.

 

[Luigi player]

Without MK Snake would dominate too much probably. And then everyone wants Snake banned... and the list might go on and on, until we only have one character left, lol.

MK shouldn't be banned.

 

[Zankoku]

Not really. I just don't like any of you.

That's good to know. It's always convenient when one directly says "stop talking to me."

 

[ADHD]

Metaknight reminds me so much of Sheik from Melee. Just like MK, Sheik is incredibly easy to pick up, had basically no bad matchups, and she made a good amount of the cast completely unplayable in tournaments because they could NEVER beat her.

In the early melee tier lists, Sheik was unquestionably the best character in the game. Sound familiar?

Sheik WAS arguably the best

Imagine meta being the heaviest in the game, game over. That ***** deserves to die at 30 percent lol

 

[RDK]

That's good to know. It's always convenient when one directly says "stop talking to me."

I was referring directly to the people who insist on posting "you don't exist" to anything and everything I say.

 

[ShortFuse]

But Melee Sheik is different. She had her blatant flaws.
Marth's uTilt vs Sheik with no jumps left

 

[Morrigan]

I think it would be cool if tourney directors started experimenting with MK-free tournaments. If you're a TO, you can set whatever rules you want like banning MK if you wish. There's nothing stopping you.

Being a TO doesn't mean you can do whatever the crap you want. If your players don't like your ruleset they won't participate.

 

[Amide]

This is from a Matchup thread I found in the MetaKnight Forums:

60/40 (small advantage)
Olimar
Marth
Mr. Game & Watch
Zamus
R.O.B.
Kirby
Pikachu

50/50 (even matchup)
Wario
Falco
Diddy Kong
Yoshi (ZOMGWTFROFLBBQ!)
Lucario
Donkey Kong
King Dedede

40/60 (slight disadvantage)
Snake

this means that about 15 of the 36 Characters Can stand at least a good chance against MetaKnight. I'm not sure on how accurate it is, but he doesn't seem to be as immortal as people say he is.

First off, the matchup charts show MK not nearly as good as he is, he's winning against much more than 15 characters. Second off, where the heck did you get that from? The matchup chart I found in the MK forum even shows an advantage against Snake. Yes, Snake.

 

[BBQ°]

Maybe instead of banning Metaknight as a whole, we can rather ban some of his moves. When asked what makes Metaknight so broken, people always respond with "his tornado" as one of their answers. I know a variety of moves can beat out the tornado, but the timing is difficult and if your character does not have an attack to outprioritize it, you're pretty much screwed.

I suggest that the best short term solution right now is to ban his tornado.

 

[Yonder]

Yeah, banning Meta Knight isn't gonna do much, Snake will just dominate anyways, and personally, i'd rather at least have a Nintendo character dominate than a non Nintendo one.

But seriously, Meta Knight has NO weaknesses, expect for a small lack of KO power, and helplessness on his specials, that's pretty much it.

 

[Mmac]

First off, the matchup charts show MK not nearly as good as he is, he's winning against much more than 15 characters. Second off, where the heck did you get that from? The matchup chart I found in the MK forum even shows an advantage against Snake. Yes, Snake.

I dunno, but from what I've heard. The list you're talking about I've heard was flawed....

 

[phish-it]

Metaknight has doesn;t have a lack of power, it's just the opposite considering how fast his moves come out. The only reason he might have trouble KOing is if you keep spamming a single one of his kill moves...

 

[popsofctown]

Maybe instead of banning Metaknight as a whole, we can rather ban some of his moves. When asked what makes Metaknight so broken, people always respond with "his tornado" as one of their answers. I know a variety of moves can beat out the tornado, but the timing is difficult and if your character does not have an attack to outprioritize it, you're pretty much screwed.

I suggest that the best short term solution right now is to ban his tornado.

my only issue with that is that you can't remove the tornado off of the controller. Bans should be clearcut, banning the tornado will lead to accidental uses and "prove you didn't mean to do it, you just made my fsmash clank you liar" and so on and so forth

Now.... banning his B-moves all together........ would be possible. You can say it'd be horribly cruel, but he'd still be better than Captain Falcon. Meaning it makes the game more balanced rather than less balanced.

 

[Mmac]

Maybe you can only do a "Ground" Tornado. Not allowed to tap the button. There's plenty of moves that can break a ground tornado

 

[metalmonstar]

Many thought Snake was amazing and unbeatable. Look what has happened to that, Snake is no longer number one. The community seems to realize he has flaws and bad matchups.

On the other hand we have metaknight who seemingly has no flaws except for weight which isn't much of a flaw. Metaknight also has a lot going for him. What does this mean? Metaknight is too good? No just that maybe more time is needed before people can pin down metaknight and come up with ways to beat him. At first many thought neutral b was too good. Now only n00bish metaknights spam it. Ways to counter it have been found.

Now maybe nothing will be found that truly counters metaknight but there are characters who go even or close to even. Even if only 10 characters can do that then Metaknight doesn't warrant a ban.

I personally would like to see an agreement from the players not to play metaknight. It would be interesting to see what the other characters can do in a metaknight free tournaments. I am sure the character ranking list would be all over the place and we would see many different characters winning tournaments.

M2k, futile, and them should be the ones posting here since they are really experienced with Metaknight. I think they would allow us to have a better understanding of how the character stands.

 

[BBQ°]

my only issue with that is that you can't remove the tornado off of the controller. Bans should be clearcut, banning the tornado will lead to accidental uses and "prove you didn't mean to do it, you just made my fsmash clank you liar" and so on and so forth

Now.... banning his B-moves all together........ would be possible. You can say it'd be horribly cruel, but he'd still be better than Captain Falcon. Meaning it makes the game more balanced rather than less balanced.

True, but to make Metaknight's tornado effective you have to repeatedly press B. It would be obvious if your opponent said it was an accident and you see them intentionally mashing B.

Besides, if it was a rule that it's banned, you wouldn't see a Metaknight "accidentally" using the tornado as much as it's used now.

 

[Kirby Magatsu]

*noob mode on*

Metal Knight is really very good, he has FIVE JUMPS, i'll main him right now!!!

*noob mode off*

Any char have to be really better to the others chars to be banned, actually he isn't.

 

[cutter]

Being a TO doesn't mean you can do whatever the crap you want. If your players don't like your ruleset they won't participate.

Likewise, they can like your ruleset and come.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I think a few TO's should experiment with a MK free tournament.
If things actually turn out to be more beneficial then perhaps it would mean considering a ban on Mk as a whole.

however if things don't change significantly enough there is no reason to warrant a ban.

 

[RDK]

Many thought Snake was amazing and unbeatable. Look what has happened to that, Snake is no longer number one. The community seems to realize he has flaws and bad matchups.

On the other hand we have metaknight who seemingly has no flaws except for weight which isn't much of a flaw. Metaknight also has a lot going for him. What does this mean? Metaknight is too good? No just that maybe more time is needed before people can pin down metaknight and come up with ways to beat him. At first many thought neutral b was too good. Now only n00bish metaknights spam it. Ways to counter it have been found.

Now maybe nothing will be found that truly counters metaknight but there are characters who go even or close to even. Even if only 10 characters can do that then Metaknight doesn't warrant a ban.

I personally would like to see an agreement from the players not to play metaknight. It would be interesting to see what the other characters can do in a metaknight free tournaments. I am sure the character ranking list would be all over the place and we would see many different characters winning tournaments.

M2k, futile, and them should be the ones posting here since they are really experienced with Metaknight. I think they would allow us to have a better understanding of how the character stands.

But if you play to win, the question is not "Is MK worthy of a ban?" but "Why am I not playing MK?" He clearly has an advantage over the rest of the cast. Not ban-worthy, but an advantage nonetheless.

 

[Mmac]

I think we should discuss if we should put a rule against Tapping B on the Tornado.

It's still a good move if you don't tap it, and it gives people actually a better shot against it.

That is pretty much the only true broken aspect of his game.

 

[LewsTherin]

Metaknight is way too good...
When I played melee with my older brother, I used to get my *** kicked as he was very good with Link.
Day I got brawl, I put the disc in, and started playing with my older brother. After getting destroyed a couple rounds, I decided to try some other characters. After a couple dismal failures, I tried Metaknight. I won a 3 stock battle with 2 stock. :/
He goes Meta, and beats me by a similar margin.

Using Meta can be compared to PvP from Guild Wars.
You can spend a lot of time leveling up and getting equipment and skills with a PvE char and then play PvP(other chars), or you can make a maxed level instantly and start kicking *** right away on Pvp. Of course you don't get the best possible stuff, but still, your already maxed out skill and level wise and you haven't even done a quest.

Lol at this being my first post on here.

 

[acv]

But if you play to win, the question is not "Is MK worthy of a ban?" but "Why am I not playing MK?" He clearly has an advantage over the rest of the cast. Not ban-worthy, but an advantage nonetheless.

advantage over the rest of the cast?i clearly remember characters doing well against MK.

 

[Amide]

If I'm at a tournament, I'll play Meta Knight. But I'll realize there would be times I would beat a more skilled opponent.