The Metalblade Fan Club: Unutilized Shield Pressure / Potential Break Setup

[Wreck33]

Refreshing stale moves at low procents are not really the thing though. At kill percentages you get 2 pummels and thats good for unstaling your kill moves. Mega Man is a really really powerful toon. Its totally not so that its that easy as you can figure out Mega Man and win free, a player yes but its not like all options can be limited by knowledge. You can always counter play.

 

[redcometchar]

Ok everybody get your teaching caps on, we are going to help out a fellow community who is crying out for some support. Megamang we are here to help, so please don't worry.

Also, the part where redcometchar is blatantly wrong about the speed of a pummel affecting staling then has the ego to question if I know what im talking about is quite amusing. do some research.If you'll take my word for it (maybe not since we are playing a different game) then you'd know that buffered pummels of a certain speed threshold don't unstale moves. Or just don't say things you don't know? When did they change that? Brawl's launch rofl.

So I waddled into a vs match to test this, and i discovered that kirby's pummels do unstale moves. It appears that there is a speed threshold, but every character can just pummel slower and there isn't anything special about megaman's pummel in that regard. I should counter back with some sharp words about not doing research but i will hold my tongue. I was going top post footage but my elgato is having an off day today, and will post it later.

With the changes suggested in here a good megaman would outright body almost every character.

I didn't actually suggest any changes but if i were too, a good aerial would be nice. maybe a good projetcile too.

Only character in the game who can have a hitbox out with a dodge or shield, and it can be b reverse TWICE to help with landing.

Wait twice?!?!?!? With only 109 frames of lag this sounds like it could totally change his neutral game! Good find!

go over to the mario boarsd or Ryu boards and look at peopple pushing forwaard a meta. People good with this character are succeeding. Scatt talks about what he can do to up his game, and he is better than everyone here. If you are toxic enough you want to blame the character, go ahead, but don't ask here why you drown in pools and assume its Megaman's fault. Guess what, you can get in on a Zoner, because he is supposed to be beatable. You have to make correct calls. Perhaps using megaman's f4 (fastest in the game tied with shiek) disjointed massive powerful aerial will help. Even though its not safe if you space like a fool! Should Megaman's blade be uncatcheable? Because as of right now, if you know how to pellet it won't ever damage you, so I don't know what else we want.

Well shiek's fastest aerials is frame 3 and there are plenty of characters who have one there lab monster. And it is pretty strong, killing at 120 percent and doing 12 damage. I dont know what my toxic brain is thinking. Ill have to go talk to the other people who make top 8 in my region what they think about your opinions.

"lemons aren't fast enough to punish it"

What? you should be zoning with lemons at midrange, so they clank it when they throw it. with one lemon. Easily. Every time.

Well my friend, aerials don't go into rebound and their hitboxes don't disapear after interacting with lemons. I will also post test footage of this. And a dear friend of mine has some words to say about people like yourself.

"....then has the ego to question if I know what im talking about is quite amusing. do some research.If you'll take my word for it (maybe not since we are playing a different game)...

Or just don't say things you don't know? When did they change that? Brawl's launch rofl. haha ha HA HAHAHAHA

... ARE we playing the same game?


... so I don't know what else we want.

Next on the agenda lets see...

Tier lists place him in the top 15 and notable megaman have MU charts with 1 or 2 losing MUs.

Hmmm.......

Thats all I really have to say about you buddy. Actually wait, wipe the apple sauce off your bib, makes you look like a child.

Now for the real discussion here. Im going to talk for a little about why lemons are bad.

All the data comes from kuroganehammer. Godlike site btw

Frame advantage for lemons on shiek at 0 unstaled. (You can unstale moves with pummels just so you guys know, which is pretty neato if you ask me)

Closest range, (without arm hitbox) 10 frames of stun
Med range 4 frames of stun
Farthest range 2 frames of stun.

Cooldown on lemon is 29 frames. making your last fired pellet -19 on hit up close, -25 on hit at mid range and -27 on hit at max range.

There we go. Now throw in their terrible priority and terrible range and we have a bad projectile.

 

[Wreck33]

regarding the pellets you can't go about frame data like that and base an opinion on whether they are good or not. You shoot using advanced techs. If anything pellets are the strongest projectiles in the game by a big big stretch!

 

[redcometchar]

regarding the pellets you can't go about frame data like that and base an opinion on whether they are good or not. You shoot using advanced techs. If anything pellets are the strongest projectiles in the game by a big big stretch!

Well what im trying to get at is they are punishable on hit, wich makes them high risk. Also they dont give much reward, so high risk, low reward. On top of that they arent a good defensive tool since they cant contest hitboxes.

 

[Diamond Octobot]

...Well, why the heck are you even playing Mega Man if you just want to say that his best move (really, they are his best move) are just blatantly bad. Come on now, if you don't even want to move while shoting, just play another character.

...I'm sorry, but you are just openly saying that our best zoning tool is bad right here. You can fire them while moving, so while you don't get much advantage, you stack damage while disrupting your opponent AND setting a zone that you want to keep. I mean seriously, if you don't use them, could you AT LEAST share a replay of one of your matches to show us WHY you think they are bad ?

AND ONCE AGAIN, STOP FLAMING !

I mean it, we all have enough problems already. Insulting each other won't help.

Now, could we PLEASE get back on the thread back on its track please ?

Edit
Since you took the time to post while I was typing (damned be my bad timing -_-' ), Let me ask you something : should you move into your opponent every single time you are shooting ? That's a silly question, but I'd like you to give us an answer here because you can do it, but the catch is that you are going to take risks in order to get the blank point NAir.
If you are far, what would you get from trying to get close too fast ? If you are close, is trying to get away worth it ?
These are the question I've got (for myself, actually), but I think that they should help a bit. You seem to treat the Mega Buster like a static move, but we can walk and jump while shooting. They aren't as unsafe as you are saying. And if anyone gets too close, our only options are Rush Coil-ing away or using Jab to recover some space.
Btw, did you even cosider that Jab can clank ? I know, it's still bad, but its still there and can help dealing with some stupid Dash Attacks. I mean that if anyone runs at you at full speed, just press Jab *once*.
(Seriously someone please tell me that they got the reference )

P.S. : If by hitboxes you meant stuff like Bombs / Mechakoopas, well, they are energy-based, so it would only make sense for regular hitboxes to go through 'em...

 

[redcometchar]

Well honestly I always loved the megaman, and i began to think megaman had potential with metalblade. Now i am a little disapointed that he might not be a viable character, but im not sure, so i am trying to see if someone has answers to his issues, and if not to convince people that he doesnt.

Id love to post a video right now, but i have spent a couple hours now trying to get my elgato to function so im a littled triggered. Ill do my best to describe the situations of megaman getting punished for hitting pellets. Ryu can tatsu after getting hit at mid range and megaman cant avoid it including shooting more pellets because it will just go through the pellets. Pit can do the same with close range pellets as well. And a bunch of characters can dash attack megaman for it.
Greninja can side b all ranges after hit, shiek can bouncing fish, and some characters can start combos after pivot tilts at mid range and jab at close range, all after being hit.

Also i have no idea what you are trying to refrence.

 

[Wreck33]

I can promise you that you don't know the inputs for pellet attacking and what happens to the char when you know them and can use it. Metal blade mega man can be forgotten. Its the pellet techs that was discovered that made mega man super viable. You just can't judge this char if you can't do the pellet techs

 

[redcometchar]

I can promise you that you don't know the inputs for pellet attacking and what happens to the char when you know them and can use it. Metal blade mega man can be forgotten. Its the pellet techs that was discovered that made mega man super viable. You just can't judge this char if you can't do the pellet techs

What pellet techs are you talking about?

 

[Diamond Octobot]

Stuff like SH Lemons, FTilt x2 -> Nair, FAir ->NAir.
Things like that I guess. FTilt -> Nair is particularily good. Did you take a look at the stickied threads ?

 

[Megamang]

Damn guys, Ryu can tatsu us on reaction for pelleting. Guess we aren't viable.

(you can shield that... and shoryu him. after labbing a lot of Mega vs Ryu, Tatsu is not his answer to pellets. At all.)

Pellets are a projectile, not a bludgeoning item, so i don't know why you are looking at their frame data like they are a jab or something. Nair hitbox is definitely not punishable on hit past like 10% if you have decent movement.

You look at the frame data but forget that Megaman is MOVING. yes, b reversing leaf shield allows him to cover himself in a circle of hitboxes, change his momentum twice, dodge while using it, and land and shield/grab/jump. I mean, this isn't going to be a 10 frame movement or no one would have a chance..


Megaman is doing better and better, and his mains are very optimistic.

So you come here to say Metal Blade can be withheld from us... and I said, so what? If they throw it and you are zoning properly it does nothing at all. You said leaf shield doesn't beat many projectiles which... what?

If you really think he is doomed, just move on and play someone else. Dont come to the boards and use some really, really shoddy frame data 'analysis' and imply that im a child because I don't agree with you. Kamemushi was dominating Komorikiri with metal blade setups, pretty sure Komo is a top player so its not that easy to take our metal blade and destroy us with it.


Ok, aerials can continue the hitbox and grab the blade... so what? im out of range firing pellets. Even if they throw the blade immediately, my pellets keep me safe.



We are trying to tell you that you are doing something wrong if you are getting... what, shadow sneaked for hitting pellets? WTF? Tatsu'd? Clearly you aren't using them correctly, sorry to say. Ryu has real problems dealing with them, and it aint because they don't know about tatsu.

If they always buffer an option after pellets, you can do all kinds of things to hurt them.


Here is where you went wrong on frame data analysis by the way. The last second that megaman fires his buster, his pellet isn't instantly at max range. The travel distance is significant and greatly changes the data you suggest.

SH backwards while nairing on shield is super, super safe. If they are dropping shield and Tatsu'ing you, you are doing it wrong.

Data and analysis is good, im not denying that. Im just saying you are missing the big picture.

If pellets were positive on hit at any distance, mega would annihilate the whole cast.

Zdrop pellets are positive on shield if thats what you need, and yes they can drop shield and contest with an aerial... but that loses to instant fair or bair. Uair can give you a great trade. And before someone says 'they won't just sit in shield' you force the shield with glide tosses and DICIT, because DICIT literally confirms into every move Megaman has. Z drop blade pellet hitbox regrab is huge pressure and again, if you move properly, it is safe. Even if you get tatsu'd LOL.

Megaman is an amazing zoning character with mediocre-but-powerful-on-correct-decision CQC. You can't have brawler, shiek-esque data on him, I don't know what you expect.

There is no frame tight, perfect way to zone... because that would be literally unbreakable. There has to be holes. That is how zoning characters work in every (not busted) game. Every option has an answer, or else flowchart zoning would auto win. You have to mix up your options. A shield of leaves that allows you to grab, shield, roll, SHAD, throw a ****ing metal blade... yea, it takes a second to pull out. You can't pull it point blank. Create space.

his grab game is well above average with dthrow bair at early percents, and the entire existence of leaf shield grabs makes them very deadly. Also, uthrow is a strong trap, because uair does insane damage, beats every hitbox, and is really lagless for how powerful it is. Landing forwards can be punished with bair, another dashgrab, throwing metal blades... yes, an aerial perfectly timed can catch the blade, but you don't always run in with your blade. There is no pressure on you to go in at all. This is why Megaman is amazing, and this kind of thing is always powerful in smash. Its the reason fox/falco could beat marth on larger stages in melee, he had to approach. Lasers had no stun, are less mobile than pellets, and were still extremely, extremely valuable.


EDIT: More points.

You found what we have known since Brawl. It still gives mega's slow, strong pummels some utility over the faster ones that most people think refresh like 5 moves.

And no, not 100+ frames of lag on the leaf shield. I guess you didn't know this, but you can input a b reverse both when you pull out and when you throw the leaf shield. Adding the lag together.... isn't how frame data works. Im not accruing lag in the air from each pull, and im using it to change my momentum so a second of lag is pretty fair for a good ~5 seconds of protection by leaf hitboxes that can do things like break greninja's usmash.

 

[Sleek Media]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfboOxfN9FM

Just gonna leave this here. Please take note of how ineffective pellets are for keeping him out, how low the reward is when they do keep him out, the fact that you can shield in between pellets, and how I get completely demolished for having the audacity to try a dThrow->fAir at low percent.

And this is one of the MUs you guys say we win easily lol.

 

[Megamang]

Bro, everyone has been saying dthrow- RAR Bair is the optimal choice.


If you want, I can post a play by play on what went wrong and what went right, and try and help. But due to the current nature of this thread, I feel that may not be wanted. Regardless, you losing to Boss (who is very good and would beat me!) doesn't mean Mega loses to Luigi. He probably steamrolled a bunch of bad luigi MUs on his way to finals because he is ****ing Boss.

 

[redcometchar]

Stuff like SH Lemons, FTilt x2 -> Nair, FAir ->NAir.
Things like that I guess. FTilt -> Nair is particularily good. Did you take a look at the stickied threads ?

So i checked the stickied threads and couldn't find anything to improve priority or reduce lag. I knew that you could move around and jump while you shoot pellets if thats what your talking about.

Megamang your right, i didnt count pellet's active frames, but luckily it only stays out for 3 frames so it doesnt really change much. I didnt expect people to believe how punishable it is but thats why i'm going to show it in a video. And wait a minute on the leaf shield lag, its 53 frames to spawn the shield and your next press will throw it for 56 frames. How is that inaccurate?

 

[Megamang]

Both are reversible options, with options in between. You don't just schlepp together the frames and call me a child because you don't understand frame data.


Speaking of which, pellets are still not active for only 3 frames. that would be the buster hitbox probably, but I can tell just from playing that the pellet isn't traversing its entire distance in 1/20th of a second. Rofl. Think about these things before you post numbers, frame data is an acquired skill to read, but it isn't that hard. But something should be putting up alarm bells that there is a mistake, if something that slowly moves across the screen is active for, say, the same amount of time as most quick smashes. PS, the buster can hit and THEN the pellet still hits, you aren't only hitting with the buster box almost ever.


Honestly if these people want to drop mega I'd encourage it, he is a lot of work. Also, we are going to get a huge influx of Megamen after Scatt's summer tour (no school, just smash focus. He's gonna rek nerds hard, and little baby megas are gonna be coming out of the woodwork. should be a good time for mega advancement.)

Like, I get earlier when shields changed and it kinda hurt mega that it was a bad time... but its like, the best time ever to be a mega main.


EDIT: Rather than being cryptic (which I hate) ill do it for you. The last pellet hitbox is out on frame 24. That is a FAF of 36 on that shot, while moving. to punish a single pellet, you have to close the gap in 12 frames. Nothing does this lol.. If you are mixing it up, they have to guess (with a ~33% success rate if you mix it correctly) They have to force you to the ledge. There, problems can arise, this is true. this is on kuroganehammer. This is, of course, an ideal pellet shot. However, you can move backwards while you shoot which is honestly borked AF. Nothing can catch a SHing megaman backwards if spaced properly. You are suggesting Tatsu traverses max pellet range + mega's movement in ~12 frames, which is ludicrous. You can utilt kill greninja at 80 if he decides to SS for you using your adaptable, mobile, mixupable zoning tool. Simply jumping and firing will stuff most OoS attempts.

As much flak as we give fair, Scatt was saying he needs to use it more... because its a huge ****ing disjoint, which most zoners do not have at all. Mega's air accel means he can slide back enough to make it unpunishable, it can also crossup shields and if you hit doing a crossup it combos.

And if you are going to look at frame data for metal blade, check out the item toss frame data (also on kuroganehammer) because an item tossed metal blade is way better than the b thrown one. Which is still good. And it confirms into utilt. And you can pick it up while firing a pellet.


---

So why don't you tell me what your friend has to say about people like me? im dying to hear. I wiped off my bib, but unfortunately this circumstance was quite embarrassing in the opposite way you imagined since a literal baby just correct your understanding of the really quite simple data you are reading. Just figuring out kurogane hammer doesn't give you the right to be arrogant and rude when you are WRONG, clearly have a tenuous grasp on how frame data works (lag is additive right?!) (pellets are active for 3 frames guise, its a laser) and try and give a 'community lesson' to someone who questions your ideals. If you are feeling your character is holding you back, why go and spread that ideal? To go be rude and arrogant when you are totally wrong is not a good look. Im dying to hear what your friend has to say, but this might not be the place. ill remove my bib again to read his PM if its so important. Otherwise, don't make weird cyptic threats to embarrass people on a forum when you are mistaking hitboxes and not understanding what im suggesting anyways.

 

[redcometchar]

Both are reversible options, with options in between. You don't just schlepp together the frames and call me a child because you don't understand frame data.


EDIT: Rather than being cryptic (which I hate) ill do it for you. The last pellet hitbox is out on frame 24. That is a FAF of 36 on that shot, while moving. to punish a single pellet, you have to close the gap in 12 frames. Nothing does this lol. They have to force you to the ledge. There, problems can arise, this is true. this is on kuroganehammer.

Yep, i read it wrong. that makes it only - 10 on hit. Only -10. Still punishable.

But my leaf shield math is correct. if you are goint to spawn leaves and then throw them to get two bounces, that's a 106 frame commitment.

 

[Megamang]

So what traverses max pellet distance in 10 frames? You know just dropping your shield takes... 6, I believe. So 4 frames... that isn't even possible to be tatsu'd if you were point blank.


You don't commit to the throw automatically, that is called being predictable. Each thing provides a momentum shift, and can be used separately. You aren't locked into the throw at any point, and you have hitboxes protecting you if you chose to only use the pull. Leaf shield has potential for shield pressure, gimping, protection, ledge pressure, escape from disadvantage, and stacking huge damage from a grab. It also can be thrown while holding a metal blade, or the blade can be thrown if you want to set up the aforementioned leaf grab.

And, much like pellets, it stays active after you throw it! it also beats almost every single projectile in the game. It trades well with most too, since 7% isn't much to sneeze at for such an adaptable projectile.


The fact you think megaman doesn't have a good projectile is... shocking. He demolishes almost every other projectile user pretty harshly, and characters that struggle with projectiles have very little chance vs a well played MM. Individually, each of MM's projectiles are above average. Together they create an amazing zoning wall. And no good aerials? are you serious? Uair is top 10 uairs, same with bair. dair is, MU depending, amazing. fair has flaws, but you can't have ****ing shadow claw on an amazing, heavy zoner.


Your mistakes were about average and nothing horrendous, its just how crazy pompous and egotistical you decided to be. And then you were wrong. If you want to discuss MM's flaws, that is fine. But learn what they are first.

People tried to point you to movement, because if you are getting shield drop tatsu'd or shield drop shadow sneaked, something is going horrifically wrong. Those are terrible panic responses to zoning that any MM should sniff out and destroy.

 

[Sleek Media]

I've gone up against boss a lot of times in bracket, and there's a fair number of videos going back the last year. I think our improvement is noticeable, but the big thing I noticed playing those games is that he got wise to Mega Man's tricks and tactics. Believe me, I've tried every kind of aggressive and defensive use of pellets, metal blades, and leaf shield you can think of, but we just don't have that MU. There is a skill gap between boss and I, but its not so much that I can't beat his Falcon for example.

Anyway, I posted this to illustrate that pellets are not some incredible zoning tool we control the neutral with. redcometchar laid out the frame disadvantages on hit, and someone basically said "lolno". This game was not lolno. This game was me being completely unable to deal with Luigi's priority and pressure, and that's how all the games with Boss have gone. There are many more videos if you don't believe me and want to check.

As for dAir->fAir, I prefer that option over bAir MOST of the time because it gives you a 50/50 for a continuation. If you space it properly, you can avoid the nAir most characters throw to break the combo and land a second fAir, which allows a frame advantage for regrab or dTilt. You can also go in with an air shooter if you prefer. Even if I had gone for bAir, it wouldn't have saved me from that big punish he got because the platform still would have given him the frames to shield and punish.

Look, I don't want to just ****post on Mega Man all day. I'm not still playing this character because I hate him. I WANT him to be good. Fooling ourselves into thinking he's better than he is will not help us, and if anything it'll make things worse. Saying stuff like we beat Luigi, or we beat Bayonetta because pellets shut their approaches down (?!) is demonstrably wrong, and it just sets other people up for failure. There are ways to do pretty well with Mega Man, but it's in spite of his tools as they are right now, not because they are good. I'm talking about stuff like conditioning an opponent to eat dThrow->uAir->uAir, or using empty hops and retreating fAirs to scare off overly defensive play. The point I want to make is that this isn't enough. ANY character can condition opponents for mixups. Eventually the meta will advance, and we will need real tools that function properly to stay competitive. I'm all for making the most of what we have, but I'm also all for remaining level headed and not flying off the handle when Scatt gets to top 8 or something.

Speaking of which, we need to put less weight behind Scatt's games. He is a fantastic player, and there are good things to learn from him (dj diagonal mb recovery), but you should also be able to spot the games where his success is greatly facilitated by his opponent's lack of MU knowledge. Stuff like M2K letting him jump off of Rush to land a double uAir is just...I would never even consider trying it because of how easily Cloud's uAir/dAir could end that stock (and he had tons of time to put it out). For whatever reason though, that sort of thing has been working for him. High level players in general overestimate their own characters, partially because of favoritism, and partially because it makes them look more hardcore to followers or whatever, so stuff like tier lists and MU charts should be taken with a reasonable dose of skepticism.

On topic, MB is our best tool by a considerable margin. At close range with a JC you can combo off it at some percents. Everyone knows about diagonal blade to uppercut. What else is there really to discuss about this move? Z-drops are nice, but the higher level you play, the fewer opportunities you will get to use it, and something like that 70% combo on DK just isn't happening in bracket. Didn't we have an infinite with metal blade in another thread? There is a reason these lab techs aren't playing out in real games.

 

[Megamang]

Kamemushi pulled off the jab reset to utilt kill from metal blade twice, on Komorikiri's Cloud, in one set.

Komo knows the MU.

---

This is not hard to understand. I said lolno because his frame analysis was wrong, not because I didn't believe it. Pellet is not active for 3 frames. Using an option that takes ~60 frames, then another option you can reactively decided to do or not, that puts out a long lasting hitbox, that also takes 60 frames... that does not make it a 100 frame disadvantage. This is basic frame data analysis. I responded with vitriol because he implied I was a child, but then made a series of posts detailing that he did not, in fact, actually know how to parse the data he was reading. Do you also think shield drop tatsu is a legitimate response?


Spoilers: Boss is reading your movements before they happen. A highly skilled player learns to beat your main with his main... he adapted, you should do the same. Use more clever mixups. He is literally going up and meeting you in the air when you rush in (why?) and fairing you on reaction because he knows it will work. You lose to Boss of all people and act like it is definitive proof pellets are bad. He knows the counterplay. But those options have counterplay.

Dthrow fair is inferior. You are setting yourself up for what you described, because you are using an option that relies on MU knowledge being lacking. If you do a rising bair you can finish it before you land. Regardless, some followups aren't possible when a particular platform layout occurs. This does not mean pellets are useless.

 

[redcometchar]

So what traverses max pellet distance in 10 frames? You know just dropping your shield takes... 6, I believe. So 4 frames... that isn't even possible to be tatsu'd if you were point blank.


You don't commit to the throw automatically, that is called being predictable. Each thing provides a momentum shift, and can be used separately. You aren't locked into the throw at any point, and you have hitboxes protecting you if you chose to only use the pull. Leaf shield has potential for shield pressure, gimping, protection, ledge pressure, escape from disadvantage, and stacking huge damage from a grab. It also can be thrown while holding a metal blade, or the blade can be thrown if you want to set up the aforementioned leaf grab.

.

Who said anything about shielding? Its -10 on hit not shield. Dropping shield takes 7 frames but thats unrelated. Your opponent doesnt have to predict anything. If they try to juggle you and you dodge it with a b reverse you opponent can literally just react and hit you. There is nothing to predict.

 

[Megamang]

Regardless, he isn't traversing the max pellet distance in 10 frames. If you are deciding to close distance and are hitting, you MUST finish with a jab or nair. Yes, if you walk in ftilting you will get punished. But why aren't you creating distance when you fire? There are better ways to close distance, including better pellet technology. Nair is NOT, in any way, punishable on hit. Ftilt may be, if you are walking into them firing for no reason.


when you land, you have b reverse leaf shield, dodges, aerials, metal blade coverage, and pellet coverage. There has to be a prediction of which option you chose to hit you successfully, because these all have different solutions. The b reverse of the throw is a good option because, if you realize he is trapping your landing, you can instantly change directions at a high rate of speed. Or you can NOT do that. they have to predict, assuming you are mixing up between the two.

Regardless, there are usually better options, which is all MU dependent. But leaf shield is not bad, in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Sleek Media]

As an addendum, this is what zoning Luigi ACTUALLY looks like.
https://youtu.be/1GV-16qvuFQ?t=3m1s

It's very different from what we can achieve with pellets. I shouldn't have to break it down.

 

[Megamang]

Mewtwo zones differently than Megaman?!


Im not trying to be rude here, but a video of you losing to Boss making a myriad of bad choices isn't extreme supporting evidence.


Here is Kamemushi beating one of the best players in Japan, who is using a character with better hitboxes, mobility, and burst range than Luigi. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-5mXVlgNqk

 

[Sleek Media]

You should really try contributing something useful once in a while, Megamang. I see you all over these boards. You're posting 24/7, and it's always the same nonsense theory craft. Any time someone comes at you with something substantial like frame data or a video, you make a personal attack because you cannot discredit their argument. How old are you?

 

[Megamang]

The frame data he gave was garbage, and he started the personal attack. I am responding with a substantial argument,and posted evidence of a good megaman successfully zoning a character who zone breaks better. 90% of what I asked was not answered. But I guess you guys are all getting bodied by getting hit -> tatsu, so im the odd one out. How in the world what I posted less substantive than someone misreading Kuroganehammer and thinking pellets are out for 3 frames and aren't safe at max range vs Shadow Sneak is beyond my understanding. I will be reading this thread, so if someone can actually explain that to me it would be appreciated.

Regardless, I will be doing what most of the good Megaman players are doing and partaking in discussion off of smashboards. Thanks to the guys who are continuing to try to help, but I guess my opinions aren't welcome because I believe Megaman is a good character. . If the status quo is really that Pellets are a substandard zoning tool, I guess Luigi bodies Megaman. I'm gonna lurk the more productive character boards, , and begin my attempt to get PR'd. Results are king here, but its a little crazy to not see the skill differential between boss and yourself. Regardless, if you believe Megaman is holding you back, I would implore you to try beating Boss with a character you know beats Luigi. I doubt the result would be much different.


Anyways, ill come back when I have physical data to back up my claims, since my theory isn't welcome here. Big thanks to the productive guys here, it was fun while it lasted. I hope some cool discoveries are posted in the next few months, and genuinely wish the board takes a turn for the more optimistic, because Mega's top players realize the power of his neutral.

EDIT: Also, discrediting Scatt because he is good is some seriously skewed logic. He is showing what the character is capable of, much like Kamemushi. His MU chart has Luigi as one of the easiest MUs for Megaman.

EDIT2: I directly addressed the things he was saying. you are the one stooping to personal attacks once they have nothing more to say. I mean... if we lose to Luigi, do we beat anyone?

 

[CopShowGuy]

I don't even see any/much flaming here. This is a pretty healthy discussion. We're really pointing out MMs flaws and trying to advance his playstyle here.

 

[Diamond Octobot]

Whelp.
If you say so, I guess it's true CopShowGuy ... I've seen this kind of scene turn for the worst way too many times.
I'll try to post something later (hopefully something useful), because E X A M B O Y Z

 

[ENKER]

I don't even see any/much flaming here. This is a pretty healthy discussion. We're really pointing out MMs flaws and trying to advance his playstyle here.

I don't know, I have never seen our Mega boards get like this. Calling each other babies is enough flaming for me, especially since I have grown to love how us Megas just don't do that. At least, I haven't seen it, and I lurk...a lot.

That being said, it's good that we're all passionate about Mega Man. No need to tell each other to stop playing him, that was also silly to do. We all obviously love him. Let's keep discussing! We're in this together.

 

[Megamang]

My mind can't wrap around a power level that Mega doesn't beat Luigi but can zone other, much better at burst, characters. That is nonsensical to me. I am passionate about the character, and if you think his pellets and LS and MB aren't good projectiles, then does he even have a gameplan? I don't get it. We are seeing it succeed at extremely high level.

I got heated because I came into a metal blade setup thread and its people talking about basically Mega being nonfunctional, when very developed metas are placing him in the top 3rd of the cast.

I shouldn't have responded to the personal points, that was pedestrian. I apologize, to the board overall for partaking in that. I'll post if I find any mechanical findings, but i'm done with the theory and im not going to argue about it, you can think whatever you want about this character and it doesn't effect me.

 

[Wreck33]

The zdrop stuff is super good in competitive since its a guaranteed punish OOS on a shielded unsafe aerial. Block the aerial - SH on the opponents head - into SH footstool zdrop - FF SH footstool - FF- jab lock - Uptilit.

When shooting pellets in neutral you are most rewarded by choosing the right string by waiting to see your opponents movement and approach decision. When pelleting you are SH drifting and confirming the hits and confirm your next option. In no scenario are they unsafe unless you go for an unsafe risk option by decision. Whilst SH nairing you are either drifting back, beats all aerial approches like Mario sh bair etc. If you land that hit you continue the pellet string going forward landing a nair sweetspot and then proceed to carry them of stage and then its Mega time at the ledge. Looks like this --- sh nair backwards (hits approach) drift forwards for a low nair into the third consecutive sh high nair. Really good mixups from this string as well!! before you land on the last SH nair you can Fair, bair, Up air throw metal blade, instant dtilt, instant uptilt, do nothing etc etc all before landing!!!!!!!!!!!! So when going for this string from a closer distance you can sh nair backwards - drift forward low nair - sh forward high nair (cross up shield) - bair them before landing or if you fire you last pellet in their shield - Up air them. Tons more are available its just an example.

At frame advantage you can use this string going all forward or you go for ftilt-ftilt-sh nair to get them off stage or other strings that are available.

When you master pellets they are like Shieks Fair in neutral. B : But even less dmg :/
Its clear that some of you here don't know about this. So this video demonstrating pellets are gonna fail and be misguiding.

It took me countless hours to find all the necessary techs with mega man and I don't just share the technology to anybody if I feel they don't deserve the information. Also I enjoy that he is underrepresented and I like for it to stay that way. So I find it better that people pick up mega man and fail. They will if the don't learn the techs.

You lost against Boss and you were not playing anywhere close to how mega man should be played. Keep at it and learn other stuff and enjoy better results.

JC metal blade is not very strong imo. Very hard to combo of still. Can only combo on certain %. Rar Sh Mb throw combos a lot better at 0 to about 140 on most chars. If done correctly it always combos into an air grab from around 25-80 and combos into rar bair from around 25-140.

 

[Wreck33]

Double post ))))

A set up that doesn't get any attention is the following. I have more success with this setup landing the Up tilt then I have with the diagonal down Mb into Up tilt.

When spacing around in neutral mix it up sometimes with a SH singel high Nair. If you clip your opponents jump with this it combos into Up tilt! It most be a normal hit and not a sweet spot. Also since they are conditioned by other strings you will find that you will land the up tilt also on a normal hit on grounded opponents a lot!

If done correctly you buffer the Up tilt in the landing squat from the SH

 

[Eru Light]

Wow haha. This has to be the funniest joke thread on the Mega Man boards. Mega Man loses to Luigi? Pellets not being good? Dthrow Fair being Mega Man's only throw combo? Dear lord, this is probably the funniest thing I've seen in a long time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0

Lol. How can you guys play Mega Man for so long and not know how to use him. Good thing you guys dropped him, I'd rather not have players making Mega Man look bad. Mega Man is about movement and spacing, if you can't do either of those, there is no point in playing Mega Man. Please, if you're going to trash talk Mega Man, at least be good with the character first haha.

 

[Wreck33]

It is indeed a bit unfortunate and misleading. 2nd best neutral in the game gets labeled bad.

 

[Megamang]

Kamemushi is currently doing work at Umebura 23, hasn't lost a set yet.


But hey, maybe no one in Japan knows about how bad lemons are.

 

[Wreck33]

He won very dominantly! Footstool zdrop finished SHiek 2 times out of 3 games in GF. Learned that on a power shielded Shiek fair the foot stool combo is guaranteed. And Megamang those arguing against lemons and other mega man moves clearly are in the wrong and are basing their argument on their lack of knowledge and execution skills.

 

[Sleek Media]

Wreck33 can you post a video of any of the things you're talking about? Short hop pellet combo onto uTilt sounds like a string, not a combo.

LOL @ the rest of you posting Kakumeshi. So, when he has a bad tournament, we can all agree that Mega Man is terrible. That's how it works here right? I win locals or beat MD/VA PR players and it's all congrats, great to see more Mega reps. I lose to BOSS, and I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing. I'm sure he also has no idea how the MU works. Good thing we have secret pros like Megamang to set us straight haha.

 

[Diamond Octobot]

...Tfw sarcasm goes too far

Anyway guys, how about stopping this whole comment chain to talk about the Metal Blade again ?..

I tried Downwards Metal Blade -> DSmash in training mode, and it somehow worked... Could someone try to see if it's escapable ? Just asking.

 

[CopShowGuy]

He won very dominantly! Footstool zdrop finished SHiek 2 times out of 3 games in GF. Learned that on a power shielded Shiek fair the foot stool combo is guaranteed.

http://oddshot.tv/shot/shi-gaming-2016052110170514

 

[Megamang]

When he has a bad tournament, we never said he was terrible. You were approaching the MU wrong. And, of course he knows the MU, what are you talking about?

Im citing a very high level player who is beating everyone in Japan right now

Regardless, I can see you are being defensive so I won't keep attacking you.

I think what we can all take away from last night is that everyone should know the footstool confirms, because getting a kill at 80% can turn any game on its head.

Wreck33 why the backwards metal blade toss? The frame dta is identical to forwards, but I would hazard a guess that the backwards toss starts from further behind and thus gives you better combo ability?

 

[ENKER]

http://oddshot.tv/shot/shi-gaming-2016052110170514

Thanks for sharing! I was unaware that you could perfect shield into the z drop shenanigans. For some reason I just never thought of it. :D

Should we compile a list of common attacks we can perfect shield into z drop fun?

 

[Sleek Media]

Which is stronger KB on a footstooled opponent? 3x pellet->uTilt or charged dSmash?