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Legend of Zelda The Milk Bar [Archived]

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The Halloween Captain

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For a do everything fanatic how many hours is Zelda original, WW, and TP?
I can tell you from experience that Zelda Twilight Princess is a good 60+ hours if you want all the hearts, only somewhat like Poes and bugs, and hate fishing. I need to check my first save file for a more accurate number, especially because I love to dawdle on my first attempts (so the actual number might be significantly higher), but it is a very long game.
 

SkylerOcon

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Especially me. :laugh:

Yeah, I guess I can't criticize Banjo Kazooie too much if I couldn't make it past the first level. Except for having WAY to steep a difficulty curve on the first level (in my opinion).
It seems to me that you just suck at platformers... the first level of Banjo-Kazooie was absurdely easy. I can get through the first half of that game without dying (though the later levels make Megaman games look easy).

Though, first person Zelda wouldn't necessarily be bad. Somebody brought up Red Steel as an example, but they forget two things:

A) Motion controls in that game sucked
B) TP was developed for the Gamecube and ported to the Wii. So, the game would've still been operated by basic button presses instead of stick waggle.

So, we can't really judge the game by any other standards. There haven't really been any Zelda-type games running in a first person mode. I honestly don't think it would be bad, though I would prefer the third person view.
 

The Halloween Captain

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It seems to me that you just suck at platformers... the first level of Banjo-Kazooie was absurdely easy. I can get through the first half of that game without dying (though the later levels make Megaman games look easy).

Though, first person Zelda wouldn't necessarily be bad. Somebody brought up Red Steel as an example, but they forget two things:

A) Motion controls in that game sucked
B) TP was developed for the Gamecube and ported to the Wii. So, the game would've still been operated by basic button presses instead of stick waggle.

So, we can't really judge the game by any other standards. There haven't really been any Zelda-type games running in a first person mode. I honestly don't think it would be bad, though I would prefer the third person view.
I don't suck at platformers, in fact, I got all 242 stars in Galaxy and 100% completion in Yoshi's Island (1, not 2).

But when I played Banjo-Kazooie, I was probably really bad at them. I was like 7? 8? I don't remember anymore, but yes, I WAS bad.

Does Oblivion count as something we could compare TP to?
 

Scott!

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lol by perfecting a step at a time. Like for instance I'm still perfecting my sword and shield collection at the very beginning of the game on one file, and working on the deku tree on another. Once I get those almost perfect I'll move on.
Yikes. No offense, but that does not sound fun to me. The reason I can't play Ocarina anymore for a long time is because I knew it too well. I never had to try; the game was routine to me. That sounds like taking all that to a point of no return. I mean, some routine is good. I always make sure to grab 4 heart pieces before I do the first dungeon in MM. But when I'm playing the game over and doing it exactly the same way each time, it just gets old for me. Someday I'll be able to play Ocarina again, but until then, I'll love it from afar.
 

Donut!

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For a do everything fanatic how many hours is Zelda original, WW, and TP?
The original LoZ get everything time varies from play to play. Your first run through could take forever, especially if you don't know where you're going and where all the secrets are. It's a very non-linear game, and there is little to no in game help as to where to go next. Part of the time issue can also stem from enemy item drops, which in general aren't as generous as in later games, with some exceptions. Knowing where the easy money secrets are can save a lot of time. Also, some of the secrets like: the extra bomb guys, the cheap shield store, and 3 of the hidden heart containers you either have to know where they are, or find by sheer blind luck if you're playing for the first time.

It's hard to put a time on how long it would take to complete it with no prior knowledge of the game, but I think that it isn't unreasonable to say that beating both the first and master quest with 100% items with no idea of the game could take over 100 hours if you don't use GameFAQs or anything. After your first time through and have an idea of the game you'll probably shave that down to 5-10, because as I said a huge part of this game is just knowing where things are.
 

c3gill

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For a do everything fanatic how many hours is Zelda original, WW, and TP?
LoZ takes about 20 hours first time through if you know what your doing- it takes alot of patience. Not getting killed in this game is really hard.

WW, if you dont know what to do, wont get done. and if you do its extremely long, those **** trophies... even if you do its a pain in the ***.

TP is a very easy game to complete 100%. The golden bugs are very easy to find, there is no very hard heart piece (and the game tells you where every one is!), and it is very easy to travel around hyrule. My first time through (where I got everything) only took me around 50ish hours.

OoT isnt very long either, the heart pieces, extra items, and skulltulas become very simple once you know where they are.

Honestly, the longest game to get everything is WW- between the long traveling, all those **** maps, and the trophies (completing the little trading quest becomes like clockwork)- it takes a LONGGGGGG time.
 

SkylerOcon

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That's actually an insult to Zelda. Whose idea was it to say that Link was 'pimpin' when he's nearly the definition of the silent hero. He doesn't talk and he (usually) fights to save the one he loves.

Terrible, terrible, terrible. Turned that trash off after fifteen seconds.
 

The Halloween Captain

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That's actually an insult to Zelda. Whose idea was it to say that Link was 'pimpin' when he's nearly the definition of the silent hero. He doesn't talk and he (usually) fights to save the one he loves.

Terrible, terrible, terrible. Turned that trash off after fifteen seconds.
???

What makes you think that there is any intent to make Link pimpin?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eriFs4_P4M
 

MuraRengan

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That's actually an insult to Zelda. Whose idea was it to say that Link was 'pimpin' when he's nearly the definition of the silent hero. He doesn't talk and he (usually) fights to save the one he loves.

Terrible, terrible, terrible. Turned that trash off after fifteen seconds.
That's stupid, the intent of the songs was not to insult zelda. It's clear to see that whoever made these mixes likes both zelda and rap, there's nothing wrong with that. Quite frankly, to say that any song that is rap, automatically implies a theme of "pimpin" is racist, I mean like REALLY racist.
 

The Halloween Captain

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That's stupid, the intent of the songs was not to insult zelda. It's clear to see that whoever made these mixes likes both zelda and rap, there's nothing wrong with that. Quite frankly, to say that any song that is rap, automatically implies a theme of "pimpin" is racist, I mean like REALLY racist.
Actually, this comment is racist.

How is the belief that any rap song automatically implies a theme of "pimpin" have anything to do with race?

Fortunately for you, to call you out on which race you associate "pimpin" with would be the most racist of all, as it assumes that "pimpin" is assigned to a particular race, and then naming the race that "pimpin" is assigned to according to one's own beliefs about that particular race.
 

Spire

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Actually, this comment is racist.

How is the belief that any rap song automatically implies a theme of "pimpin" have anything to do with race?

Fortunately for you, to call you out on which race you associate "pimpin" with would be the most racist of all, as it assumes that "pimpin" is assigned to a particular race, and then naming the race that "pimpin" is assigned to according to one's own beliefs about that particular race.
Puh-tegh! Ripped the words right out of my mouth!

Let's drop the racism argument HERE.
 

SkylerOcon

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That's stupid, the intent of the songs was not to insult zelda. It's clear to see that whoever made these mixes likes both zelda and rap, there's nothing wrong with that. Quite frankly, to say that any song that is rap, automatically implies a theme of "pimpin" is racist, I mean like REALLY racist.
Actually, the song mentioned the word 'pimpin' several times. The song also says that link puts his faith in his money, which you only needed to do in the original Zelda games, while the song in the background for this song is Saria's song -- one from OoT. The only time you actually needed money in that game was to buy the Kokiri shield at the beginning.

So yes, the song was pretty much terrible at being anything remotely Zelda-related.

CHANGING THE SUBJECT (If you want to continue with this, PM me)

I know that Sheik was planned at one point to be in TP, but was taken out. If in some alternate universe Sheik WAS in TP, how do you think the story would have been effected?
 

The Halloween Captain

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Actually, the song mentioned the word 'pimpin' several times. The song also says that link puts his faith in his money, which you only needed to do in the original Zelda games, while the song in the background for this song is Saria's song -- one from OoT. The only time you actually needed money in that game was to buy the Kokiri shield at the beginning.

So yes, the song was pretty much terrible at being anything remotely Zelda-related.

CHANGING THE SUBJECT (If you want to continue with this, PM me)

I know that Sheik was planned at one point to be in TP, but was taken out. If in some alternate universe Sheik WAS in TP, how do you think the story would have been effected?
Are you really reading THAT much into it?

Anyway, If shiek was in TP, there wouldn't be those four other people that help you get to the later four dungeons. Instead, Shiek would show you whwhere to go.
 

MuraRengan

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Actually, this comment is racist.

How is the belief that any rap song automatically implies a theme of "pimpin" have anything to do with race?

Fortunately for you, to call you out on which race you associate "pimpin" with would be the most racist of all, as it assumes that "pimpin" is assigned to a particular race, and then naming the race that "pimpin" is assigned to according to one's own beliefs about that particular race.
The term 'pimpin' was coined by black people, is used by black people (mostly),and is often associated with black people. Simply because I can point that out doesn't mean that it reflects how I feel about that race. By using the term "pimpin" he automatically associated rap with black people, which is racist.

In my post, instead of pointlessly pressing to find out what he meant by "pimpin" I just jumped right to the conclusion that we already know: the guy obviously associates rap with black people. You're confused because I didn't take the route of asking "Well what do you mean when you say "pimpin"? But doing that would've been a waste of time because we would've ended up right where we are now. But besides that anyway, because of his last post it's clear that he just misunderstood the songs anyway, so this entire racism thing came about from a misunderstanding anyway. I'll comment on that next.

Actually, the song mentioned the word 'pimpin' several times. The song also says that link puts his faith in his money, which you only needed to do in the original Zelda games, while the song in the background for this song is Saria's song -- one from OoT. The only time you actually needed money in that game was to buy the Kokiri shield at the beginning.

So yes, the song was pretty much terrible at being anything remotely Zelda-related.
See, the thing is, the guy did not MAKE this lyrics of this song. The arrangement of this song is an a-capella version of an existing song, put to the beat of a remixed Zelda song. THE SONG IS NOT MEANT TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT ZELDA, it just so happens the the song whoever made these used happened to be one in which the rapper talks about himself. Also, to prove my point even more, there's more than one song, there's a WHOLE CD, one of them uses a song from Jay-Z, Snoop Dog, and Dr. Dre. Now why would any of those rappers want to make a song to talk about Zelda? Once again, it's simply an a-capella version of old song put to a Zelda beat, that's all. If you want to hear the other songs, just hit the forward button. You misunderstood the intent of the songs, you thought that the first song was one made to talk about the Zelda series, but now that we know that's not true lets get over it and appreciate the sheer concept.
 

The Halloween Captain

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I just found out that Super Mario Sunshine occurs immediately after Super Mario World 3. (from the Bowser battle)

Sunshine was the vacation that the protagonists decide to take after beating Bowser.

So like Zelda, there is a Mario timeline of sorts, and it's not in direct order or game release. Except the Mario timeline is much more explicitely referenced in game at times, and much more scary to try and piece together, with all the spinoffs needing to be accounted for.
 

Spire

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Yeah either way that rap sucked lol.

And Sheik in TP? Why didn't they put him in it dammit!
Him? Let's not start that debate again. Sheik is a chick.

Sheik was scrapped because they probably couldn't find a place to fit her in. It would contradict with Zelda's imprisonment throughout the story.
 

SkylerOcon

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I dunno. I think that they originally had a storyline that had Zelda breaking out of her imprisonment occasionally, via disguising herself as Sheik, but was scrapped because Nintendo didn't want the game to come off as an Ocarina of Time remake.

And please don't say Sheik is a guy.
 

Ochobobo

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Sheik should definitely make a comeback in some future game. I'm sure Nintendo can find ways to fit her in without making it too predictably OoT-like.
 

Skrah

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Shut up lol. I have the benefit of doubt.

I would've liked a Sheik-like sheikah though. And something that bugged me is that they make it as if Hyrule is a thriving city but in reality you only see a small town. I want a BIG Hyrule.
 

Ochobobo

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I think he means the Hyrule Town/Marketplace, lol.

It would be cool if they expanded it and added several rows of residential areas as in maybe a rural-like Shire setting, and thriving industries inside the city walls.
 

Scott!

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Yeah, Hyrule's scale needs a serious readjustment, especially the city. The WW and TP worlds were both big, though in different ways of course, but it needs another step up. It still just feels small, especially for a whole country.
 

The Halloween Captain

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Yeah, Hyrule's scale needs a serious readjustment, especially the city. The WW and TP worlds were both big, though in different ways of course, but it needs another step up. It still just feels small, especially for a whole country.
The only problem - cities don't look good.

Nintendo will not make a game full of dull browns and greys (I hope). Castle Town was a very grey city. Expanding it would mean a less colorful experience of Hyrule.

Of course, if Castle Town wasn't Castle-colored, then there could be very bright, vibrant, and interesting city environments.

(EDIT:I'm not cure Hyrule can be made into an open world, because of hardware requirements. As it was, there were load-masks throughout TP's "open" Hyrule field)
 

Spire

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Yeah, Hyrule's scale needs a serious readjustment, especially the city. The WW and TP worlds were both big, though in different ways of course, but it needs another step up. It still just feels small, especially for a whole country.
TP's Hyrule was vertically big (Hyrule Field was elevated above great chasms carved by the Zora's River and featured high mountains), while WW's was horizontally big.
The only problem - cities don't look good.

Nintendo will not make a game full of dull browns and greys (I hope). Castle Town was a very grey city. Expanding it would mean a less colorful experience of Hyrule.

Of course, if Castle Town wasn't Castle-colored, then there could be very bright, vibrant, and interesting city environments.

(EDIT:I'm not cure Hyrule can be made into an open world, because of hardware requirements. As it was, there were load-masks throughout TP's "open" Hyrule field)
A more colorful, vibrant town = Clock Town. Hyrule "City" could perhaps be (like said before) a great establishment, with the inner castle and upper-class stone buildings, and the lower class outskirts for farmers, merchants and the like (which would include districts within and outside the walls, the latter being farmland, like The Shire from LotR). I'd actually like to plan out a potential Hyrule City. Remind me to do that, Skyler.

EDIT: For the inner-outskirts, think about the beginning of Arcadia from FFXII, before you get into the big, robust upper city. It's slummy, but pleasant and calm. That's where someone like Tingle might start out, before rising to fame (or infamy) through "working" for cash.
 

The Halloween Captain

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TP's Hyrule was vertically big (Hyrule Field was elevated above great chasms carved by the Zora's River and featured high mountains), while WW's was horizontally big.


A more colorful, vibrant town = Clock Town. Hyrule "City" could perhaps be (like said before) a great establishment, with the inner castle and upper-class stone buildings, and the lower class outskirts for farmers, merchants and the like (which would include districts within and outside the walls, the latter being farmland, like The Shire from LotR). I'd actually like to plan out a potential Hyrule City. Remind me to do that, Skyler.

EDIT: For the inner-outskirts, think about the beginning of Arcadia from FFXII, before you get into the big, robust upper city. It's slummy, but pleasant and calm.
Sorry, the only large Final Fantasy city I've ever seen was Midgar.

And that's the epitomy of my point about big cities = ugly game.
 

Skrah

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A big city doesn't have to look gray and boring. It could be decorated by colorful objects so there's no gray look.

Another thing I want if the next game will take place in Hyrule is that the city has more people. I want a thriving city. Oh, and no Phantasy Star Online people. It looked horrible. At first sight the cities looked lively, but once you got close to people, they disappeared.
 

SkylerOcon

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Sorry, the only large Final Fantasy city I've ever seen was Midgar.

And that's the epitomy of my point about big cities = ugly game.
Well there's your problem! I did not like FFXII at all, but the main city in the game was absolutely amazing -- it captured the big city feel without it being to big or to brown.

The Zelda world designers should take note of some of the things that Final Fantasy has done.
 

Ochobobo

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A more colorful, vibrant town = Clock Town. Hyrule "City" could perhaps be (like said before) a great establishment, with the inner castle and upper-class stone buildings, and the lower class outskirts for farmers, merchants and the like (which would include districts within and outside the walls, the latter being farmland, like The Shire from LotR). I'd actually like to plan out a potential Hyrule City. Remind me to do that, Skyler.
I think Clock Town looked so happy and colorful mostly because of that big party everyone was getting ready for. That's what towns need, not random people standing around, but obvious communities of people. The vibrant colors of their happy decorations, and the contrasting gloom of the moon above them are just an added bonus.
 

Skrah

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Yeah we need a very vast variety of people. For once I'd like to see Hyrule as a town where all races meet. not just one or two Gorons, but several Gorons, Zora, and any other race that appears in the game.

Lol, can you believe I haven't played one FF game yet?
 
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