Social The MKGD: The rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated

[ぱみゅ]

I honestly had no idea you would jump by holding the button like that. Definitely will try it later.

 

[linkez]

I tend to slide my index finger to the jump button, it's basicly the same. I've being doing this to make my life easier while I attempt to follow up with uairs fox's uthrow in melee and it worked really well for me =)

 

[warionumbah2]

Are any of you using Ftilt to confirm into grounded shuttle loop? Not Ftilt 2 or 3 i mean Ftilt 1, the end lag is very low MK pulls back so much faster than he does for Ftilt 2.

This kill confirm is way better with rage and it works on floaty characters reliably at +100% depending on rage. Its a pretty safe and solid mix up and the KBG on grounded shuttle loop is insane(plus this move most of the time will be fresh). Also i looked at the KBG on all his moves and im shocked!

KBG(knock back growth) rankings

1. Bair final hit = 212(holy ****)
2. Drill rush final hit = 200(lol why this of all things??)
3. Mach tornado final hit/Down throw = 170
4. Up Smash = 166
5. Jab finisher/Fair final hit/Forward throw/Back throw = 140
6. Grounded Shuttle loop = 130

And the aerial Shuttle loop is 113.

Also hello reddit users, FYI for MKs here reddit linked Reddaknights(yes this is a thing) to this board for more info(since really this is the only place on the web with good info).

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Reddaknights?

Really?

Who...

 

[warionumbah2]

Who...

Doesn't matter cuz we da bess. @ Superbat

Still waiting on that dubz thread m8.

 

[Superbat]

^ Did I do something?
oh lol

 

[warionumbah2]

^ Did I do something?

 

[Krysco]

Yo @ ZTD | TECHnology you've mentioned numerous times that you do dubs with MK and how you've discovered some crazy stuff with the likes of Megaman and...Mario was it? I believe you mentioned teaming with an Olimar too. How often do you use uthrow? I've been using it a ton on FF and FG dubs and while the throw itself doesn't kill till super late and doesn't lend itself to combos, I've killed so many unsuspecting people with the hitbox MK has as he crashes back down to the stage <3 it's my absolute favourite move to kill with.

Actually...speaking of Megaman, MK, dubs and uthrow. I can imagine crash bomer to uthrow is a decent idea with a stock lead (did this with Charizard today) and maybe even MK uthrow to MM uair although that's just theorycraft...I might also be spoiling some of that awesome stuff you mentioned :x

 

[busken]

Yeah bonk talked about ftilt 1 into grab or up b. You can pretty destroy lightweight floaties at 100%+ but against others its a 50-50 so it depends on your opponents habits and how they try to alleviate pressure whether offensively or defensively. Some people will try to shield in which case you can dash grab, some will try to attack which also beats shuttle loop if they have a fast grounded normal like falcon's jab. Except on floaties i like to go for the grab as i have seen even smarter players that even have better normals frame data will try to shield grab it. This ftilt buff is really helpful imo, as it's great for scouting and spot dodge beats our strongest ground options(dtilt, grab, and dash attack) so ftilt beats it.

 

[warionumbah2]

I don't use Ftilt 1 --> Dash grab. Its pretty pointless, we already got one of the best dash grabs in the game. Also it seems like the moment you begin to input Shuttle loop after Ftilt 1 your opponent will still be in hitstun, so frame 3 nairs won't help especially since shuttle loop has got a huge disjoint so sex kick Nairs like the Mario bros will outright lose the exchange.


From my experience(or plain common sense) it works on these guys, but im positive there's more since gravity is a thing on some characters.

Spoiler

But MK has so many answers to kill you may not need to do this and most of the time you'll forget. I only remember when both me and my opponent are at high percents then im like "oh yea i got this". Its good to know i can walk up to your shield and Ftilt it and walk away since its generally pretty safe on block and people expect the 2nd and 3rd swing.

Hurray for small buffs being useful in its own way.

 

[busken]

Well, you still need to make sure you get a good opening to use f-tilt b/c it's not safe on shield, unless you space it very very well.

Also, how do you guys play your MK? Rushdown/Mix-Up? Bait and Punish? Reactionary? Conditioning?

 

[Katakiri]

OMG LEO IZ MAKIN MK LOOK GOOD EPHEN DOAH ITO N TYRANT WERE DOIN SHIZZ BE4 LEO EVEEEN BECAYME RELYVARNT.

METUHKNITE GOZ EBEN WID SHEEEEKE SOLID MID TIER KEK.

Leo's on fire.

 

[Superbat]

mfw Online delay in smash 4 is FIVE frames. (Please tell me I'm wrong) PLEASE

Well, I'm never playing online in smash 4 again unless its with friends or tourney mode. Wtf have I been doing with my life.

 

[busken]

Hey guys. I've been working on a character combo group thread. It's based primarily on fall speed and weight. F23 and air speed have to do with pretty much air speed so how DI away, toward, etc. The air speed and f23 values rarely have pure matches so for now im organizing it primarily on fall speed and weight. If you have any experience in where a character should go please help out! http://smashboards.com/threads/character-combo-groups.410359/

 

[I speak Spanish too]

@kyokoro_pamuyo

I believe I saw a gif of meta knight's rapid jab beating falcon's recovery? Does this work on most tournament legal stages? Do you have the footage?

 

[ぱみゅ]

@kyokoro_pamuyo

I believe I saw a gif of meta knight's rapid jab beating falcon's recovery? Does this work on most tournament legal stages? Do you have the footage?

I think @ Katakiri has some footage of that, and considering how Jab, Falcon Dive, and ledges work, I believe it works in virtually every ledge.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Yo @ ZTD | TECHnology you've mentioned numerous times that you do dubs with MK and how you've discovered some crazy stuff with the likes of Megaman and...Mario was it? I believe you mentioned teaming with an Olimar too. How often do you use uthrow? I've been using it a ton on FF and FG dubs and while the throw itself doesn't kill till super late and doesn't lend itself to combos, I've killed so many unsuspecting people with the hitbox MK has as he crashes back down to the stage <3 it's my absolute favourite move to kill with.

Actually...speaking of Megaman, MK, dubs and uthrow. I can imagine crash bomer to uthrow is a decent idea with a stock lead (did this with Charizard today) and maybe even MK uthrow to MM uair although that's just theorycraft...I might also be spoiling some of that awesome stuff you mentioned :x

Up Throw is a godsend in doubles.

Also yes Crash Bomber + a properly timed Up Throws means insta death for both MK and his victim. Perfect way to close out your own stock if you're at high percent or just wanna end the game.

I'll try to sit down and make a thread tomorrow. Doubles is my ****. I have really strong placements to support my material as well. (Also yes Mario is the bae)

@ warionumbah2 I got you mate.

Also yes Jab puts a LOT of pressure on Falcon recovering. Its so easy to setup. All you need to do is incite them to wait on the ledge. If you've ever Tornadoed their get up, roll or jump option from the ledge, you will commonly see them start waiting as a response. Jab them. It's hilarious.

 

[busken]

ZeRo's quotes on MK

"Meta Knight is a good character in this game, but it wasn't reasonable to say before due to lack of results... now it's different."

"Meta Knight has a very powerful conversion game off of up air and dash attack, along with moves that heavily benefit from rage (Up B/Fsmash)"

"In order to defeat Meta Knight, you have to play extremely careful. His lack of range and tools in the neutral, force him to neutral camp."

"It becomes a game of you specifically playing to not get hit by 2/3 moves, because that's where his most rewards come from."

"Some of the big mistakes Mr R did were not abusing neutral enough, and not properly DI'ing out of certain strings and setups."


My thoughts:

I largely agree with ZeRo's opinions. MK didn't really have a lack of results imo, but in terms of major tournaments he wasn't seen much. Everything else I agree with 100%. People well versed in the MK MU will play extremely careful which can become too careful giving room for openings. The only thing is that most character's can't camp effectively in neutral. What do you guys think?

 

[LostinpinK]

@ L linkez don't hesitate to contact me if you're interested in online play with top french players. Or also if you want to train with a decent french MK, even though I'm not that good.

 

[I speak Spanish too]

I think @ Katakiri has some footage of that, and considering how Jab, Falcon Dive, and ledges work, I believe it works in virtually every ledge.

Does this work with Ganondorf too?

 

[ぱみゅ]

I gotta test that out.

 

[warionumbah2]

Well, you still need to make sure you get a good opening to use f-tilt b/c it's not safe on shield, unless you space it very very well.

Its not hard to land imo.

Also, how do you guys play your MK? Rushdown/Mix-Up? Bait and Punish? Reactionary? Conditioning?

I didn't include some characters because i never played them.

Spoiler

Lame(most likely time out since im a sadist)

Safe aggression

Mid range heavy(alot of sh against Sheik)

Bait and Punish heavy(usually alot of walking and foxtrot baits)

Reactionary(or at least try to) and im always on the move no walking

 

[busken]

I mainly play very patient/reactionary and looking at what they do. Once I see an opening, I punish as hard as I can. I try not to overextend and often get greedy but I'm trying to control that. I feel like 2 stock is just bad for seeing who's the better player because once you are down a stock, you feel so pressured because you risk getting timed out and taking more damage. Like it's dangerous, if Sheik is Up a stock she can literally needle camp you.

 

[I speak Spanish too]

D-cape is like the equivalent of Falcon Punch. Stylish Kill Move but hard to land on a competent opponent. Any tips of on how to use D-cape?

 

[Superbat]

^ I use it to punish people who love to spam smash attacks. I also use it to mix up my recovery and to abuse the auto cancel it has.
From Itol

yo if you jump and instantly double jump and buffer down b, if you hold left or right you will perfectly autocancel the cape and you can do anything instantly when you land. i buffered ftilt the instant i landed and got people trying to punish me in friendlies a few times today. you can use it to get yourself out of the corner sometimes.

 

[warionumbah2]

None attack cape: Use it to recover and use it to get out of disadvantage state.

The attack should be used as a hard read or punish **** nuggets that dare charge a smash infront of us.

 

[Doctor_Link]

Shoutout to a guy in For Glory I fought named Katakiri for showing me what a good Metaknight looks like. Gave my Bowser a hell of a time, and I'm finally convinced that he isn't completely worthless now.

I do believe i fought that same person with my Doc.

 

[Ghidorah14]

None attack cape: Use it to recover and use it to get out of disadvantage state.

The attack should be used as a hard read or punish **** nuggets that dare charge a smash infront of us.

I was under the impression that it was his best kill move!

I've been lied to!!

 

[I speak Spanish too]

I was under the impression that it was his best kill move!

I've been lied to!!

lol he trolled you.

 

[Superbat]

Tonight's Come and ban tourney (Ito's weekly paycheck) is gonna be crazy today. 6wx is back and top ness Shaky will be there as well. Stream link is here.

 

[warionumbah2]

I'll bet Katakiri's mod status that Ito won't win. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Dimensional Cape and Drill Rush are two very underrated tools in our arsenal. Too many MKs try to stick to just the BnB. You can get creative with him.

Ask yourself this:

Those times you accidentally Drill Rushed. And it worked. Ask yourself: Why? Because it's a mixup. And mixups are powerful when applied at the right moment. All these lab sessions I've been doing recently have been useful. I'm seeing progression!

 

[warionumbah2]

Considering a crappy move like Drill rush has the 2nd most KBG in MKs arsenal, may as well give it a shot.

 

[busken]

I've always used drill rush. I like to use it when I'm a safe distance from the ledge and my opponent is on the ledge. Most of the time, they will do a neutral get-up. If you time it well you can hit their get up with drill rush and drag them vertically off-stage, where you can either use an aerial or go for another drill rush off-stage. Even though you die, it's a good yolo option, so 1 stock up MK's edge guards reach no bound. I don't have any footage of me doing it by us old mk's will remember this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/drill-rush-spike.383057/

Also, if you are 1 stock up drill rush can ko anybody who tries to go for a horizontal recovery shown here: https://youtu.be/OYWXCTKKDV0?t=63

I personally like drill rush more then nado but thats just me.

 

[ZeroJanitor]

So I've noticed a lot of people on Smashboards lately have been saying that Meta Knight is a really good character (around upper-high tier). I have a pocket Meta Knight so I know he's not that bad but for a long time everybody said he was mid-tier or lower. Did something happen with his meta that changed people's minds?

 

[busken]

So I've noticed a lot of people on Smashboards lately have been saying that Meta Knight is a really good character (around upper-high tier). I have a pocket Meta Knight so I know he's not that bad but for a long time everybody said he was mid-tier or lower. Did something happen with his meta that changed people's minds?

A mexican player named Leo, used MK and pretty much bodied Mr.R has shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4R0pXrC-dg&index=1&list=PLdzzxjI64mVeWVJyUJpXN-UnCD0Baw1Qv

Now many people claim MK is really good primarily off of his performance.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Short version:

Ito brought attention to MK. Yet only one player playing with MK at top level and people still thinking he was bad (got that rep when the game came out) made most people think "MK is still bad, Ito is just really good". Katakiri has been doing awesome things in our region for a while. But SoCal is always gonna get more spotlight. Then Tyrant flourished. And now people finally recognize Leo since he beat Mr. R. NOW MK has people's attention.

It's HILARIOUS.

 

[Krysco]

The character says so himself "You have much yet to learn." People are ignorant of the knight since he's not stupid easy to use like in Brawl and thanks to exposure, people are actually willing to give him a chance and learn what he can and can't do.

...It's just kinda sad that it's because of that same exposure that people will flip from "MK is bad" to "MK is a solid mid/high tier" in a heartbeat. It's not the first time such a thing has happened though. Fox wasn't always the top tier of Melee and Puff wasn't always as high and both Olimar and Sonic got huge rises in Brawl over time. Heck, we could have gotten the reverse if we were unlucky like Brawl R.O.B., D3 and Zelda.

 

[Superbat]

Patch is out guys. Time to not trust anyone in the internet again.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

This is gonna be fun.