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The Ness Support Thread
- Thread starter DekuBoy
- Start date
Ginger9001
Smash Ace
Because people get pissed when others deny Ness returning and the other side for some reason get pissed when the others have hope for Ness. It's an age-old war thats been going on for years (a few months) that may never end till Brawl floats down from Heaven on a beam of light (gets put in a box and shipped to America) to end the war and bring peace upon the land once more.
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
You are failing to look at the things I'm pointing out. That's why you can't see how he's a replacement. I already know the grab and smash attacks are different. I'm mainly talking about the B moves. They are practically the same thing, just tweaks and possibly better effects. Other than that they are the same. Why give Lucas any part of Ness's moveset, when Lucas could be a totally different character? Not to mention that Sakurai planned to replace Ness in Melee. You ask why he would replace him? I don't know, I'm not Sakurai, but maybe he wanted to represent the Mother 3 series. Something he can do now since Mother 3 didn't get delayed. Not everything Sakurai does will be for the fans. People wanted some of the ATs to be PCs, but did Sakurai make that happen, NO. I never said my words were fact either. I said Sakurai's comment could've meant that, I didn't say it DID.
Fredcrownwel
Smash Rookie
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Fredcrownwel
Smash Rookie
thats funny Ness seemed to be able to take out foxes and marths as easily as any other charactor.
J Tangle
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
- Messages
- 41
- NNID
- JTangle
And your ignoring all other facts and clinging to Ness and Lucas having similar special moves when everything else about them is totally different. Also since Ness isn't supposed to be in Brawl why give Lucas a moveset so different from Ness'? If Ness isn't in why not just give Lucas Ness'moveset? Why make the moves so different from Ness' that Lucas becomes an entirely different character? Also as I mentioned before since one character can't replace another. Cutting Ness will be pushing Ness users to use unfamillar characters. Now I'm not saying if that is good or bad, but Sakurai said he wants to make all smash fans happy and is claiming thinking of everything when it comes to customization. I have a lot more evidence than you to question. None of us work at HAL so all we have is the official info to go by and my evidence is outweighing yours.
wait so if the anti-ness got the love of having their thread as the ness support thread listed in the index [big wtf?!] why are they here... the boards literally made two threads for one character... follow accordingly
and New Character Means new character not new color with a new hairstyle or, new clone. That's why Lucas doesn't have Ness's moveset. it would be incredibly tacky and in bad taste. And personally, no one knows anything until it is confirmed on the actual website. I.E.
Once Sakurai says "Ness Will Not Be Returning" oh wait did he say that...??
and New Character Means new character not new color with a new hairstyle or, new clone. That's why Lucas doesn't have Ness's moveset. it would be incredibly tacky and in bad taste. And personally, no one knows anything until it is confirmed on the actual website. I.E.
Once Sakurai says "Ness Will Not Be Returning" oh wait did he say that...??
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
Your evidence isn't outweighing much, just repointing out stuff that's already known and has been talked about.
Ok, let me put this in numbers so you can understand:
1. Ness was supposed to be replaced by Lucas in Melee, but b/c of a Mother 3 delay and time, it couldn't happen
2. Mother 3 looks to be taking precedence in this game over the others of the series, almost every update has something to do with Mother 3
3. Mother 3 didn't get delayed and is already released, giving Sakurai his perfect opportunity to replace Ness with Lucas
4. As I pointed out before, everyone moves different and standards vary from character to character, but other than a few tweaks, the B moves and side smash attack are basically the same.
5. Comments Sakurai have put on the DOJO concerning Ness, "Lucas surpassing Ness?" and "Up Until Now". Somehow I figure this may also point to his deconfirmation, b/c of the way Lucas's B moves are intensified and more useful compared to Ness's. Up Until Now is self-explanatory and has been used whenever there's a change in Brawl
6. Sakurai will not please anyone. It's his game, not Ness' fans game, or any other fans for that matter.
7. Moveset issues, why give him Ness' moves when Lucas could be a much more different character? Why do this if you plan to bring Ness back? Not to mention, since this game looks to have no clones, this is a problem.
8. Claus may stand in the way of his inclusion and Claus had the same number of votes as Lucas on the poll.
I may come up with more or find more things aginst Ness over time, but this is what I have now.
DekuBoy
Smash Lord
How do you know Lucas is better?
Oops sorry. I forgot you have the game and you know.
Besides that thing I said about the Claus sticker was because of todays update. What if he's just for powering Lucas up?
But his masked form is more likely anyway.
Oops sorry. I forgot you have the game and you know.
Besides that thing I said about the Claus sticker was because of todays update. What if he's just for powering Lucas up?
But his masked form is more likely anyway.
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
I never said I already have the game, but after seeing Lucas in action I can say he will most likely be a better character than Ness. And since we're on the verge of stickers. Ness could be used to power up Lucas as well, seeing as they both use PSI. And if Sakurai is doing what I think he is doing, you won't be too happy. Some stickers have no effect on a character making an appearance, seeing that there are stickers of characters that are already confirmed to be in the game. Yes, I do agree with you on one thing MM>Unmasked Claus
DekuBoy
Smash Lord
But how could you compare the two?
We must find out if Lucas can surpass even Ness...
We must find out if Lucas can surpass even Ness...
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
Oh, but he already has. If Claus makes it over Ness, it's b/c Claus murdered Ness before he was able to reach his appointment with Sakurai
PK.Thunder.Pro
Smash Rookie
I'm just gonna say right now, that I fully support Ness to make it too Brawl!!! But if he doesn't..................I will obviously use Lucas...............................................
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
*cough*or Claus*cough*
PK.Thunder.Pro
Smash Rookie
who's claus?
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
Go to the first page on the Claus thread, I guarantee you if he was in, you wouldn't be disappointed. He's also known as the Masked Man.
AsbestosBlatant
Smash Journeyman
1. Brawl is not Melee.
2. Onett. Sakurai has said he doesn't want to include only popular things anyway.
3. MOTHER3 was delayed over six times over the course of ten years, almost eleven, was canceled and then uncanceled, and delayed twice more. Super Mario Galaxy was also released before Brawl's completion, and yet Mario's moveset only takes him as far as Sunshine. Game release chronology means nothing, absolutely nothing, and again, Brawl is not Melee.
4. There is only one side smash, and only four B moves, which have all been changed massively, not given "minor tweaks". The vast majority of Lucas' moveset is unique, as is his recovery.
5. Up until now, in the context used, does not equate to Ness not being in the game. Ness being mentioned by name, in fact, does more to favor him returning. So far, the very few things mentioned from Melee by name have ALL returned.
6. Sakurai will please everyone. Brawl is a game for fans of everything, and Sakurai has been quoted as saying that this is the quintessential "Encyclopedia Nintendo".
7. Because it's more fitting to Lucas' character than Ness'. Vital strategies Ness had are absent from Lucas' moveset so far, and what's more, this "no clones" fad has been debunked so many times it's not even worth talking about anymore.
8. You can practically say this about any character from any series. Claus being in the picture does not effect Ness' chances whatsoever.
2. Onett. Sakurai has said he doesn't want to include only popular things anyway.
3. MOTHER3 was delayed over six times over the course of ten years, almost eleven, was canceled and then uncanceled, and delayed twice more. Super Mario Galaxy was also released before Brawl's completion, and yet Mario's moveset only takes him as far as Sunshine. Game release chronology means nothing, absolutely nothing, and again, Brawl is not Melee.
4. There is only one side smash, and only four B moves, which have all been changed massively, not given "minor tweaks". The vast majority of Lucas' moveset is unique, as is his recovery.
5. Up until now, in the context used, does not equate to Ness not being in the game. Ness being mentioned by name, in fact, does more to favor him returning. So far, the very few things mentioned from Melee by name have ALL returned.
6. Sakurai will please everyone. Brawl is a game for fans of everything, and Sakurai has been quoted as saying that this is the quintessential "Encyclopedia Nintendo".
7. Because it's more fitting to Lucas' character than Ness'. Vital strategies Ness had are absent from Lucas' moveset so far, and what's more, this "no clones" fad has been debunked so many times it's not even worth talking about anymore.
8. You can practically say this about any character from any series. Claus being in the picture does not effect Ness' chances whatsoever.
PK.Thunder.Pro
Smash Rookie
I still can't find anything about claus................
EarthBound08
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2008
- Messages
- 75
Hey! I already posted why Ness WILL be in Brawl, so I'll just repost them here (to save space, I'll spoiler them).
Yup. I'll just watch for a little while to get used to things.
Ness for Brawl!
EB08
I already posted why Ness WILL be in Brawl, so I'll just repost them here (to save space, I'll spoiler them). Ness: He WILL Be In
Alright, this is a very old, controversial issue, and I’ve decided to put a stop to it. Ness, my main in Melee and Smash 64, WILL be in Brawl. I guarantee it. The signs are right in front of our face.
--“Up Until Now”—
These words are infamous in the Smash community, from being the cryptic message in Lucas’ Special Moves update. I know I sound like a broken record, but “Up Until Now” truly means nothing. I have two arguments against this—1) The Handicap Update: this has been mentioned in every Ness thread, so I’m not gonna go into detail. 2) As proven by Pokémon Trainer: Sakurai updates the website as if it just happened, even though every update was made several months earlier. “No way! The Pokémon Trainer has finally arrived!” On August 13, Sakurai mentioned that PT “finally arrived,” even though the update was written a good bit earlier, like May or June. “Up until now” could just mean Ness has been in Smash up until now, meaning he hasn’t been confirmed yet.
--Smash 64—
As has been constantly noted, Brawl is much closer to the original Smash than Melee ever was. Could this be why neither Captain Falcon and Ness have been mentioned on the DOJO!!, save the subtle mentions in Samurai Goroh’s update and Lucas’ update? I honestly think Captain Falcon and Ness are “secret” characters, like in Smash 64.
--Veteran Status—
Seriously, Ness has been in both games. If Ness is as unimportant to Nintendo’s history as some say, and all biases aside because I know Sakurai favors Falcon and that F-Zero has an assist trophy, then Captain Falcon—who is apparently just as or not even near as important as Ness—then Captain Falcon should also be out by this logic. Would Sakurai really remove a character that has been in the first two Smash games—the first a game that started a legacy, the second a game that went off the charts? I’m sure some people will throw some “Well, Ness was low-tier,” crap at me. If that’s the case, then “Adios, Bowser! Sayonara, Kirby! See you later, Zelda!” Wait a second—all those characters are back!
--Differences from Ness and Lucas—
“But Lucas’s physical combat style is quite different. By which I mean, he does not have the same standard moves. His strong up attack is a mentally-powered flip kick. He unleashes a PK barrage on the ground with his down smash! The finish of his back air attack is a meteor smash. Oh! Is he grabbing the edge with his rope snake?! This is also quite different from Ness’s. The flame pillar explodes! You can freeze your opponents!” –Masahiro Sakurai, via the “Lucas: Special Moves” update.
Sakurai also shows that Lucas’ PSI Magnet is different from Ness’, in the case that Lucas can hold his PSI Magnet in front of him, while Ness covers his whole body with the PSI Magnet. I seem to recall another set of fighters with slight differences…Mario and Luigi, anyone? The answers are all in front of us: Mario’s fireballs bounce, Luigi’s fireballs go straight, Lucas’ PK Fire goes straight, Ness’ PK Fire slopes downwards; The Mario Tornado is different than the Luigi Cyclone, Lucas’ PK Freeze is very different from Ness’ PK Flash; Mario and Luigi have very different standard attacks, as do Lucas and Ness.
“Previous work, like Mario, Luigi like, the people were clearly divided, this character is even more divided, the two of you regard someone as a bit like terms MURI.” –Masahiro Sakurai, via Luigi’s profile on the Melee page, translated by Google.
I have no idea what MURI is, but Sakurai seems to mention Luigi and Mario are different, just like he did with Lucas and Ness. Hmm. WHAT COULD THIS MEAN!?
On top of all of that, when Ness is in the game, and people begin comparing characters, it’s a very good possibility that Ness and Lucas play differently. I mean, people who main Dr. Mario would kill you if you said he was exactly like Mario, as would Falco users if you said he was exactly like Fox. Young Link isn’t the same as Link, Pichu certainly is different from Pikachu, and Ganondorf and Captain Falcon are just so different, it’s scary.
Thank you for listening to my ideas. J
Ness for Brawl!
Alright, this is a very old, controversial issue, and I’ve decided to put a stop to it. Ness, my main in Melee and Smash 64, WILL be in Brawl. I guarantee it. The signs are right in front of our face.
--“Up Until Now”—
These words are infamous in the Smash community, from being the cryptic message in Lucas’ Special Moves update. I know I sound like a broken record, but “Up Until Now” truly means nothing. I have two arguments against this—1) The Handicap Update: this has been mentioned in every Ness thread, so I’m not gonna go into detail. 2) As proven by Pokémon Trainer: Sakurai updates the website as if it just happened, even though every update was made several months earlier. “No way! The Pokémon Trainer has finally arrived!” On August 13, Sakurai mentioned that PT “finally arrived,” even though the update was written a good bit earlier, like May or June. “Up until now” could just mean Ness has been in Smash up until now, meaning he hasn’t been confirmed yet.
--Smash 64—
As has been constantly noted, Brawl is much closer to the original Smash than Melee ever was. Could this be why neither Captain Falcon and Ness have been mentioned on the DOJO!!, save the subtle mentions in Samurai Goroh’s update and Lucas’ update? I honestly think Captain Falcon and Ness are “secret” characters, like in Smash 64.
--Veteran Status—
Seriously, Ness has been in both games. If Ness is as unimportant to Nintendo’s history as some say, and all biases aside because I know Sakurai favors Falcon and that F-Zero has an assist trophy, then Captain Falcon—who is apparently just as or not even near as important as Ness—then Captain Falcon should also be out by this logic. Would Sakurai really remove a character that has been in the first two Smash games—the first a game that started a legacy, the second a game that went off the charts? I’m sure some people will throw some “Well, Ness was low-tier,” crap at me. If that’s the case, then “Adios, Bowser! Sayonara, Kirby! See you later, Zelda!” Wait a second—all those characters are back!
--Differences from Ness and Lucas—
“But Lucas’s physical combat style is quite different. By which I mean, he does not have the same standard moves. His strong up attack is a mentally-powered flip kick. He unleashes a PK barrage on the ground with his down smash! The finish of his back air attack is a meteor smash. Oh! Is he grabbing the edge with his rope snake?! This is also quite different from Ness’s. The flame pillar explodes! You can freeze your opponents!” –Masahiro Sakurai, via the “Lucas: Special Moves” update.
Sakurai also shows that Lucas’ PSI Magnet is different from Ness’, in the case that Lucas can hold his PSI Magnet in front of him, while Ness covers his whole body with the PSI Magnet. I seem to recall another set of fighters with slight differences…Mario and Luigi, anyone? The answers are all in front of us: Mario’s fireballs bounce, Luigi’s fireballs go straight, Lucas’ PK Fire goes straight, Ness’ PK Fire slopes downwards; The Mario Tornado is different than the Luigi Cyclone, Lucas’ PK Freeze is very different from Ness’ PK Flash; Mario and Luigi have very different standard attacks, as do Lucas and Ness.
“Previous work, like Mario, Luigi like, the people were clearly divided, this character is even more divided, the two of you regard someone as a bit like terms MURI.” –Masahiro Sakurai, via Luigi’s profile on the Melee page, translated by Google.
I have no idea what MURI is, but Sakurai seems to mention Luigi and Mario are different, just like he did with Lucas and Ness. Hmm. WHAT COULD THIS MEAN!?
On top of all of that, when Ness is in the game, and people begin comparing characters, it’s a very good possibility that Ness and Lucas play differently. I mean, people who main Dr. Mario would kill you if you said he was exactly like Mario, as would Falco users if you said he was exactly like Fox. Young Link isn’t the same as Link, Pichu certainly is different from Pikachu, and Ganondorf and Captain Falcon are just so different, it’s scary.
Thank you for listening to my ideas. J
Ness for Brawl!
Yup. I'll just watch for a little while to get used to things.
Ness for Brawl!
EB08
J Tangle
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
- Messages
- 41
- NNID
- JTangle
He won't listen to you AsbestosBlatant since he is clearly someone who doesn't use Ness. He thinks since the special moves look the same they will play the same. I can't understand why his only credible point is the special moves. If it was a character he uses and they were replaced by someone totally diifferent with slightly similar special moves he would be thinking the same thing as us. I already looked at it from his side and there is nothing that confirms anything. There is only more speculation yet he still thinks that he is absolutly right. Also Metal_Sonic64 who are you to say Lucas plays better? You could barely play with Ness so how are you gunna tell me who plays better? (Don't say what Sakurai said because that was clearly only to make people speculate) I can understand some skepticism, but to say you know he isn't in with out a doubt is stupid. Especially when you don't work for Nintendo or HAL.
AsbestosBlatant
Smash Journeyman
Claus is Lucas' brother.
Huge MOTHER3 spoilers below if you want to know the entire plot spoiling revelation of just who he is.
http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3273794&postcount=390
I was going to type up an essay but it's been said by other people already and I'd be beating a dead kid.
PK.Thunder.Pro
Smash Rookie
oh I see now.........................................
DekuBoy
Smash Lord
cough..Metaknight clone..cough
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
*cough*Playa-hater*cough*
I love how you can try to make everything for Ness's favor. My turn again
1. So what? Sakurai can still replace him since Mother 3 is already released. No delay, no Problem
2. Onett is just a returning stage like all the other ones. And yet Sakurai has added almost everyone on the poll who was popular or requested. DDD, Ike, etc.
3. Again, Sakurai wanted Lucas for Melee, but Mother 3 was delayed and their was time issues. Brawl may not be Melee, but either way now was Sakurai's perfect opportunity to replace Ness, no delays, no problems.
4. Going in different directions and having different effects isn't minor tweaks? They are still practically the same thing.
5. Not as playable characters, but yeah they returned. Him mentioning Ness with somewhat negative comments doesn't favor him at all. "Up Until Now" could equate to Ness not being in the game, but as you say, until Sakurai says it from his mouth it means nothing
6. As I said before, not all of his decisions please all of the fans. Fans wanted some of those ATs as PCs, but they didn't make it as PCs now did they? Some fans are disappointed by that and some of them are disappointed by PCs returning that they don't want. Not everything he does will please us.
7. And yet, character update by character update, has no clone material what so ever.
8. That's like saying Geno isn't Bowser Jr's competitor. Claus could very well have an effect on Ness's chances.
I never said the special moves will play the same nor do I think that. I just said they are practically the same thing, just with tweaks in effects. Learn to read. Did you not read my above post on the other reasons, or you just can't come up with anything to counter them? They don't confirm anything, but neither do your words, I guess it's b/c only Sakurai's can confirm anything right? I said Lucas could possibly play better, and most likely, people would agree with me, but who cares? I never said I know he isn't in without a doubt, nice way to put words in my mouth. I just don't think he will make it on the final roster. You claiming he's in without a doubt is stupid as well, since you don't work there either. Instead of focusing on just the moves, why don't you focus on the other points too.
PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
It's not completely confirmed, but the Lucas history section of the new Famitsu booklet says
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
Nice find Psycho
PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
It's confirmed, an outside source just got the same translation
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
I'm very happy it is.
TheOfficialSonicFanboy
Smash Ace
Post the outside source and on what page it's on. That's not what I got.
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
Where's Claus when you need him
CyberBenX4
Smash Apprentice
Go check Brawl Central again. They've been made to look like fools for trusting the words of an idiot.
"Crisis adverted."
"Crisis adverted."
Why is this not on Brawl Central? Their translation says nothing about Ness being removed or anything.
StarshipGroove
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2007
- Messages
- 488
They corrected it right now. The old translation said "Lucas is based on Ness, who is now a stage hazard in Onett". Yet another mistake by Brawlcentral, after Zelda's and Snake's down-b incidents? You bet!
Teeb147
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2007
- Messages
- 10,624
It doesnt say that anywhere, only some poster on serebii said that. brawl central has the correct translation currently and it doesnt say anything about ness being gone, god people..
Ginger9001
Smash Ace
Wait...so what the hell is going on? I read the thing about Ness on Brawl Central but all it did was make me confused. :0
DeuceBlade
Smash Champion
The article clearly raises awareness of Ness, why give coverage to just 1 of the characters that where deconfirmed?.. I think this raises Ness' change as a playable character imo