The Never Ending List of Toon's AT's and Tricks / The Data Dump / Song of Brainstorms

[Robfox]

What's with the whole foot stalling thing all of a sudden
Wasnt Soup trying to explain before nd everybody jus said w.e o__0
but ok
I went TL on some wifi Kirby a few days ago, timed him out using 257 projectiles XD !!!
Thats my personal best lol anybody do more O__o?

 

[Thebest1pj]

345

timed out a luigi

camped him to 400 percent

 

[tedeth]

Hi Guys, i found something new about TL.

Zair to FootStool Dair

Foxy post: It's because of stuff like this that I needed to make the 'combo' section... which I was seriously considering deleting.
I could comment on your post more directly, but in the end, it's like, everyone has most probably figured this out at some point and in order for it to be a 'combo' it requires many factors that are hard to recreate in an actual game. This is without DI as well, let alone even one input of SDI. Basically, have you tried seeing what happens when you try this on a human opponent who is doing the right thing?
But anywho, I can see you put some effort into your post, what with the testing and the format and the general enthusiasm, and I genuinely do appreciate that. So cheers, and don't worry about it. I always look forward to fresh ideas and input.

 

[Robfox]

345

timed out a luigi

camped him to 400 percent

...............
O_______O
Damn, I gotta get on your level lol

 

[KazeKun]

Foxy post: It's because of stuff like this that I needed to make the 'combo' section... which I was seriously considering deleting.
I could comment on your post more directly, but in the end, it's like, everyone has most probably figured this out at some point and in order for it to be a 'combo' it requires many factors that are hard to recreate in an actual game. This is without DI as well, let alone even one input of SDI. Basically, have you tried seeing what happens when you try this on a human opponent who is doing the right thing?
But anywho, I can see you put some effort into your post, what with the testing and the format and the general enthusiasm, and I genuinely do appreciate that. So cheers, and don't worry about it. I always look forward to fresh ideas and input.

Yes i tried it against a human Meta-Knight. All he have to do was to escape the footstool dair, but Meta-Knight doesnt have any Options. We tried it so many times. We was always focusing on escape the Footstool dair, but meta-knight is to slow.
And it works easy on heavy Chars.

In my oppinion, you can evade the attack, by a super SDI on Zair, but we could not test this.

I forgot to say. The opponent have to stand on the ground, if he is not on the ground it would not work.

 

[MJG]

Hi Guys, i found something new about TL.

I tested it very often and it works very good.

No one was excepting this but

A true Combo even on high % is ( on kill % its very hard - impossible to follow up a Zair) Its important, that you are near on your opponent by performing it!


Zair to FootStool Dair
How to Perform: Run at you're opponent, SH Zair, Dash to Footstool Dair.
Effect: Toon will Zair his opponent, Dash for half a second, SH to your opponent mash JUMP (you willl Footstool him), then press Dair. It will work an many chars.
Note: The Zair must hit near on your opponent to follow with Footstool Dair. This is great move to pull of because it's pretty much guaranteed. When I say Zair I obviously mean Zair cancelled on the ground.
It works because the Knockback from Zair is very low, but you opponent is in his landing animation who you can footstool him. But maybe it will even work on when your opponent is flying away.
Stages: All

It works on Meta-Knight very well!!!
Maybe i will make a video about it. If someone want to see it!

It sounds like you have to give up your spacing for this but good find regardless...if you could do footstool>Dair, you might as well just do foostool> bomb throw down > Uair/Fair so that you could kill them @ higher percentages.

What's with the whole foot stalling thing all of a sudden
Wasnt Soup trying to explain before nd everybody jus said w.e o__0
but ok
I went TL on some wifi Kirby a few days ago, timed him out using 257 projectiles XD !!!
Thats my personal best lol anybody do more O__o?

345

timed out a luigi

camped him to 400 percent

Ya'll are mad gay :\

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Yes i tried it against a human Meta-Knight. All he have to do was to escape the footstool dair, but Meta-Knight doesnt have any Options. We tried it so many times. We was always focusing on escape the Footstool dair, but meta-knight is to slow.
And it works easy on heavy Chars.

In my oppinion, you can evade the attack, by a super SDI on Zair, but we could not test this.

I forgot to say. The opponent have to stand on the ground, if he is not on the ground it would not work.

Yeah I wasn't worried about the footstool to Dair. I knew that it was legit for some characters. All I was ever really worried about was the Zair to footstool, and mjg basically said one of the factors that would need to be present in order for it to work which is the lack of spacing on the Zair. I'm just not convinced that even with all factors perfect like the Zair used close up coming out to hit just before it is cancelled while DIing towards them with them at lower percents and then dashing immediately upon landing and so on, I'm not convinced that the footstool would be unavoidable if the opponent does the right thing.
Do you want me to test it for you or would you like to test this particular sequence of the combo more thoroughly yourself and tell me how you went?

 

[KazeKun]

It is correct that you have to give up your space advantage, but only when your opponent is at high procent.

At Low Procent its a very interesting thing. I mean after hitting a standing opponent by zair, he gets Landing Lag. So you can easily footstool him, because his shield comes not fast enough to avoid footstool animation on himself.

In my oppinion, you can evade the attack, by a super SDI on Zair, but we could not test this.

To SDI this you need a inhuman SDI (maybe you can test it, Fox). The knockback of Zair is so less, that he cant landing avoid. I test it on Zero Procent but i tested it on 25, 50 and more. After he gets like around 100 % he can avoid it, easily. I tested it only Meta-Knight and Wolf.

Fox Is Openly Deceptive:
Do you want me to test it for you or would you like to test this particular sequence of the combo more thoroughly yourself and tell me how you went?

I tested it already, looks like its your turn to test it with your methods. Take Meta-Knight and test it how you would like to test it.

The order is
Zair > Footstool > Dair.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I tested it a bit myself and it definitely looks promising. Even if the MK DI's the Zair upwards to avoid not being able to do anything until he lands and tries to double jump to Uair or airdodge, I'm pretty sure Toon can footstool him before he can double jump if you do it perfectly. I'd still like to test it with someone else because controlling two characters is always complicated, but for now, I'd say that it's looking legit with no SDI inputs; which is interesting because Link can't Zair to Footstool last time I checked.

 

[army man]

bombs are so much fun to drop on the ground and Dair next to! by the way, this thread helped out alot with playing friends and my thanks goes out to all of you guys who helped to write and test this.

 

[KazeKun]

I tested it a bit myself and it definitely looks promising. Even if the MK DI's the Zair upwards to avoid not being able to do anything until he lands and tries to double jump to Uair or airdodge, I'm pretty sure Toon can footstool him before he can double jump if you do it perfectly. I'd still like to test it with someone else because controlling two characters is always complicated, but for now, I'd say that it's looking legit with no SDI inputs; which is interesting because Link can't Zair to Footstool last time I checked.

Did you test it already? On Heavy chars its pretty easy. Like Wolf, bowser, DK, Snake and DDD.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Oh. People were actually interested? When I saw no-one replied I stopped caring. Besides I have heaps to do ever since I went back to uni, like drowning in a sea of words for example.
I don't know. If you really wanted me to, I could try remembering to have a look at it this Friday, assuming I have time.

 

[KazeKun]

Oh. People were actually interested? When I saw no-one replied I stopped caring. Besides I have heaps to do ever since I went back to uni, like drowning in a sea of words for example.
I don't know. If you really wanted me to, I could try remembering to have a look at it this Friday, assuming I have time.

would be nice, otherwise i would try to get someone to test it with me. ^^

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Alright, so I tested it properly with a mate and we can only conclude;
Zair > footstool = legit.

I'm still a bit surprised, even though it was clearly working back when I tested it by myself, and even though I was expecting it to be at the very least very close. But there you go.

With the heavier characters like Wolf, as you alluded to, they land before they get out of hitstun so it's a fairly easy grounded footstool. With lighter characters like MK, it's still possible but you actually footstool them before they hit the ground (and before they can get anything out), which would set things up very nicely for a lock, if only we could do such things (because Toon's too floaty, his first footstool goes too high, so if you try to fastfall quickdraw, it'll be too late. What you can do however, is Zair to footstool with a bomb, wait a bit, bomb throw down, second footstool, fast fall quickdraw and that will lock, but who's gonna do that?). Now where was I? And with the really dumb characters that get out of everything easily, like Samus, we were pretty sure that it's still possible, just a lot harder.

Everything else has already been said like, yes, you have to completely give up your spacing with Zair. Yes, it works easier on lower percents. So on.

 

[WindMajor]

You are awesome.
And so is TL.

 

[KazeKun]

@Fox

Thanks for your investigation. Hope we can be a bit better with Toon Link now =D

I'm glad that Ii could help. ^^

 

[Awesomecake]

Err. Has anyone ever tried this? I didn't see anything like it on the main page so I assume not. Start running, turn around and then smash in the direction you were originally running. You should do a little slide away from your opponent but still smash in their direction. It also functions as a way to run into a down-smash as well. The more you hold longer you hold the control stick back, the more you'll slide. It actually works best with Yoshi or Metaknight. You can also use this to throw a bomb. You'll still get the slide, so it's good for faking out and switching up your camping. After a retreating slide your smash may be out of range so you'd have to get pretty close, but it's still good for mindgames, or if your opponent walks into it.

 

[army man]

good technique !!! yes sir this is the place to put it too.

 

[Awesomecake]

YAY! Can this be updated into the original post under the name "Cake Slicing?" It doesn't need be called that, but that's my vote.
Noob do good?

 

[army man]

noob did well indeed. you'll move up the ranks indeed soldier

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

This was already known and on the list. If I could draw your attention to:
The Pivot Slide
How to Perform: This is the root move of the Sliding Throw. Run in one direction, Pivot, let go of the joystick and hit A just as you start moving in the opposite direction.
Effect: Toon will Run, Pivot then come out of the pivot doing his jab attack while sliding.
Note: This can be done with all moves, not just the Jab (so you can do a sliding grab, tilt, smash or whatever). You can also slide Backwards and perform any move, to do this simply tilt hit backwards just after the pivot (so you turn around) then perform any move as usual. Doing this will result in you performing your move whilst sliding Backwards. Not really a very useful move because of the setup time but should be learnt to understand the timing of the Sliding Throw.
Stages: All
Usefulness: 3/10

Read the note especially if you're not sure if this is it.

If I'm not mistaken, Samurai Panda discovered it very early on.

Good try though.

Actually there are many different variations of this tech in there. About three, from memory, but this is where it all starts, the actual mechanic behind them.

 

[Awesomecake]

Well, this move says to let go of the joystick. You don't have to in my version. If you don't let go the slide should be a bit longer. But yeah, i guess it is essentially the same. Dang I wanted a move named after me!

 

[WindMajor]

Keep on trying then, soldier. You'll get it one day.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

The letting go part is so you can Jab. Like I said, read more into the note. Besides, what really matters is the mechanic behind it. But whatevs.

 

[BryE]

Wow. I didn't think that Toon Link had more ATs than Link.

This makes me want to try out using TL again. I tried to main him at one point but I couldn't really get focused that much with using him. Well at least not as much as Link.

 

[army man]

it just takes time is all, they're different in alot of ways

 

[BryE]

it just takes time is all, they're different in alot of ways

lol Very different. I find Toon Link to be more flexible and versicle when in different situations. Depending on how you use him, he can be very defensive or extremely aggressive. Adding onto that, he's a very speedy character who can deal damage quickly.

As for Link, he's just a good character when it comes to setups and abusing the **** out of his Gale Boomerang. But that's about it. His recovery is just...well...all kinds of fail. As a Link main, this is my biggest problem with him. But everything else about him feels decent. His jab lock setups are just extraordinary and they can be really useful once you master them.

 

[army man]

i do like his jablock, and yes his recovery is a fail, i heard bombs are good with link, is that true?

 

[Fragger]

Bombs are good period lol, either TL's or Links, though they vary in damage and radius

 

[BryE]

Link's bombs are completely awesome mainly because they provide a good amount of knockback. Combined with the Gale Boomerang, you can do a lot of good Jab Lock setups.

 

[The Gilded Swordsman]

Not exactly sure if this will help, as I am still new to competitive Brawling, but there is a neat trick I found. Bomb with double jump over your opponent, throw it down then Dair. I love this and it works really well for me. Also, thank you!! This has been so helpful!

 

[Fragger]

That works some of the time, trust me. I love my Dairs more than I prolly should, but if you miss.......... well you know. Your chances of missing are most likely higher than oyu hitting, lets put it that way.
Though you could pick a safer option like, when above the enemy, bomb to Nair/Uair/Fair/Bair. So basically every other aerial is good AND safe. And bomb>Uair can kill.

 

[LKratos]

Just depends on how they respond to the bomb really. If they sidestep/dodge roll, you (often) get a free aerial, and if that's a Bair you've got a free setup (at low enough percentages). If they shield, you can still Nair/Bair for more pressure, or if you're high enough bomb again with maybe a boomerang in between.

 

[Grox]

Bomb Grab

Hey! I found out how to bomb grab!. Sadly it is not that useful. You have to have a bomb in your hand and be hit by any attack that will send you flying. while your still being launched, press the grab button and TL will send out his hookshot with a bomb in his hand. This means that you can throw a bomb strait up and when it hits you press the grab button in the split second you are sent launched and you will be able to use your grab. Since you are in the air I am not sure it will still grab though... but you can still grab onto ledges!

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I'm going to do you a favour and presume you are trolling.

 

[Fragger]

Um but in srs bsns, when your hookshot comes out in the air, its not a grab but it will still do damage. Its called a Z-air and its a great move, but not a grab.

 

[Destiny Warrior]

I was messing around, practicing Wavebounces, when an accidental result gave me an idea.

Full Hop Double Wavebounce.

It's obviously not very directly useful(I myself rate it at 3-4/10 at best), because you aren't Quickdrawing, and hence have lag, but I think it might make for a nice fake out. Run at your opponent, do a wavebounced arrow and make them think your screwed up a SMS, then proceed to do the second Wavebounce before landing to surprise them.

Thoughts?

 

[The Linkster]

This is pretty amazing!

Could you organize the AT's by usefulness? Or is that too much to type?

 

[WindMajor]

This is pretty amazing!

Could you organize the AT's by usefulness? Or is that too much to type?

I like this idea actually.

 

[army man]

I was messing around, practicing Wavebounces, when an accidental result gave me an idea.

Full Hop Double Wavebounce.

It's obviously not very directly useful(I myself rate it at 3-4/10 at best), because you aren't Quickdrawing, and hence have lag, but I think it might make for a nice fake out. Run at your opponent, do a wavebounced arrow and make them think your screwed up a SMS, then proceed to do the second Wavebounce before landing to surprise them.

Thoughts?

it could work, but, i sometimes get too caught up in the game and completely forget to focus on ATs