The *NEW* DDD BBR Matchup Discussion Thread

[Coney]

OH **** THE BOSS IS HERE

CHEESE IT

 

[Fuujin]

Tmacc and I have both stated Zelda vs Dedede is not anywhere near even.
I even played Atomski and we both think it was 40-60(back when ratios were used).
I highly doubt you'll find much more up to date info on the MU from other people(there are like 2 other Zelda mains out there actively going to tournies).
Seems like no one is content admitting they dunno a match up and just go about using old ones.

Also, we were supposed to play at Siis4 Coneyz, we never got around to it though.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

These are the MUs I'm confused on:

-3, while is -2? I think they should both be -2. Coney, you said the reason was "if the ICs never drops the grab, it's minus three." If that's the case, shouldn't alll IC MU ratios with characters like Link, Mario, PT also be -3? I feel as though we do MUCH better than many characters in this situation, because we can gimp them, and quickly take a stock with one separation. The worst part IMO isnt the grabs, it's that in the air battle, uair racks SO easily, and if they read the airdodge, it can lead INTO a grab. I don't know though, I only live by two really good ICs players in Hylian and Future . But my main point is if ICs are -3, then MK is at least that...if MK is -2, ICs are no worse than -2...my opinion.

-1? How does that calculate. I haven't played any good Pits, but I don't see how we could, in theory, lose this. Has anyone played a good Pit and can clarify?

-1? I will never agree with this, even though you've already explained the reasons behind it.

+3? Really? I think ROB is +1 at most. I've always felt that matchup was way over exaggerated...

+1?? How in the world is this MU not even. He can camp us, kill us, rack up damage quickly...if the MU is even, Snake should definitely be.

same reasoning as the above argument...if peach is even, Marth should be, too. He has amazing tools to zone us, and a good Marth shouldn't get grabbed very often. He's hard to gimp, quick, punishes SO well, and has amazing ground and air games. Can someone explain this to me??

Even with the upsmash on , I will still always feel this MU is even. He has no problem killing us, comboing us, and zoning us. He has tons of good tool, an amazing roll, and even out camps us. Seriously, is at +1 while Lucario is +2?? I just don't see it...he has all of her tools, and many many more. Not to mention that top Lucarios beat top all the time. Therefore, that ratio just seems off to me.

How I personally feel about these MUs:

So I finally played a good one at the last tournament...and lost to him barely. It was super close but I lost because he just scrooged and camped after realizing he could not take me straight up. Basically if Pit decides to just camp you it becomes a giant problem. Not to mention he can combo us to hell and back at low percents (who can't..lol) It Pit plays as gay as possible I can see this being feasible. Also Pit is better on dynamic stages then we are. It goes a long way in such an otherwise even matchup.


I got ***** by Judo when I played him but I was not on my game. I know how to deal with Sheik now but Zelda is weird. Still I don't see how they say this is -1 also. Sheik vs DDD is even to me. Zelda vs DDD is definitely in our favor. I don't really see how "optimal" use of both characters will actually help any here.

I feel like its +2. Whoever said it's +3 or +4 does not know what they are talking about. I also feel like this MU is really stage dependent and could possibly be argued +1.

No comment here. I have never played a good Ness.

I know this MU way too well. Its even. Snake can gay DDD off the stage and at the ledge just as bad as DDD can to Snake. The difference here is that Snake camps DDDs while DDD gets more % in close quarters off a good read (via grabbing). Both are fat, both can kill. Its the epitome of even. Both just have one aspect of the match that they do better in.

/ I wanted to say its -3 but that's laying it on thick. Coney has given me hope for these MUs. Don't get me wrong those, they still suck. I feel like :metaknight is our worst MU though. If anyone comes close to shutting us down its him.

I still feel like this MU is in our favor. +2 may be a bit of an exaggeration though.

+1 all the way. We gain more from off the stage battles. Back-air chains at low percents off the stage finished with a weak Bair is the bane of Marth. Seriously. But he does have a lot of tools to fight us. We have to be extremely patient and get in his range and CG him. I hate CGing him though its annoying because if I miss I get DS'ed or he just goes back to zoning me lol

 

[7Claus]

Zelda or Sheik can't be +1, but maybe Sheilda is. Sheik deals a lot of damage and Zelda can hit Dedede with sweetspots easier than other characters because of his large hurtbox (there was even some talk about a guaranteed buffered sweetspotted bair after a Dtilt, but I've never seen anyone do it). But that's just theory and there's no good Sheik/Zelda players ou there to prove it, so it's hard to believe that +1 on theorycraft alone, but I'm ok with it.

ROB was a compromise, because the stupid ROBs said it was -4 for them, unwinnable. i said it was +2 for us, which i still think it is. it's definitely a counter, better than +1 for us, but it's not +3 OR +4.

That made me laugh real hard xD
Can't believe they think it's an impossible MU, when even Ganondorf and characters that are infinited aren't impossible...

I still think Dedede has a slight advantage over Snake from his possibility of getting an early kill after a CG > grab release / Dthrow.

 

[Zwarm]

It's sad that ROB's think it's such a hard MU. I personally only think it's +2 for Dedede at most, and even that's pushing it. MK is much worse for ROB, imo.

 

[dean.]

I've played my country's best Pit at my past two tournaments and I don't really see it as Pit's favour, but I can stomach even. I'm not much in the way of articulating why but this is my feeling just by playing the game. He is pretty bad at planking though - whenever he'd try I'd usually hit him out of it soon enough so I don't know how much worse it could potentially become with competant ledge-camping.

Other than that, I agree with R.O.B. moving to +2 probably... Meta Knight to +3, Peach somewhere in Dedede's favour, Zelda a tad more in our favour. I'd comment on Lucario but Australia quite seriously has 0 of them, and I'd like to say Ice Climbers are -2 but I haven't played any since I switched to Dedede. Zero Suit Samus for -1... and maybe Diddy for -2.

//nitpicking.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I am going to use this thread for our MU discussion thread since this already pretty much fits the criteria. Except I am going to start inviting other character boards for discussing MUs and such and edit the OP accordingly. The original MU discussion thread will be archived and referenced in the OP.

If people have any particular matchups they feel like they want to discuss you can suggest them. I will probably just end up sticking this and then editing everything as we go along. I will also create separate threads for each MU like many other boards.

Sounds good?

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

It does indeed sound good...

However, who're we gonna start with? If it's some of them booty matchups, I'm not sure I'll be of much help...

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Metaknight.

I'll help.

TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

It's like 60% - 80% of the MU.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

We can start with MK. I think its best to start with our bad and more commonly encountered MUs personally.