The "New" L Cancel Discussion Thread

[yogho]

oops wrong thread

 

[greenblob]

If the landing lag on aerials is already L-cancel speed, then I have no qualms. All I want are long combos, and many combos in SSBM were only possible with SHFFLing.

 

[Xanderous]

I'm still unsure about this business.

 

[BigRick]

L-cancel should be renamed to El Cancel

and we could use antonio banderas as our spokesman

 

[Sliq]

L-cancel should be renamed to El Cancel

and we could use antonio banderas as our spokesman

This is a solid plan, and I endorse it.

 

[Xanderous]

I'll donate $10 to the El Cancel.

 

[Lgndknight]

I'll again, donate charisma and hope to the El Cancel
PUT YOUR BACK INTO IT!

on topic, this is nice for missing those kinds of moves, and it'd be nice to include in the manual, assumign they don't take it out as something unintentionally put in the game. L-cancelling is supposed to be something done with skill, but Fast-Cancelling doesn't require near the degree of skill(if any) of L-cancelling in melee.

 

[Tabris-]

Why do some people talk about speculation as fact?

 

[Speedsk8er]

I hadn't considered that. When it came to ICs I only considered the fact that wavedashing was out so it gimped them a bit, but now speculating about this I think that this might actually make them more threatening offensively. Nice thinking.

Well, here's the thing. Unless they increase our ground speed, we WILL severely be gimped w/o wavedashing. but that's another topic.

Performing NAirs with this maybe impossible.... Either that or really freaking hard.

 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

As a Link main from 64 to Melee, I too worry about Link's D-air as well. It was my main kill move, as I am sure it was yours as well, given Link's current (Melee) move set focuses more on his specials then his Normal attacks. But I foresee a different problem with the Sword Plant and Lag canceling, there would be no punishment for this attack.

The main risk for utilizing a D-air Sword Plant is its huge animation after landing, which always felt longer if you fastfall it and missed, leaving you open as you pull the sword from the ground. On the positive side, fastfalling with the Sword Plant also increased speed (dur) as well as the damage it dealt. I haven't tested this in Debug Mode due to laziness, but just from personal experience I've always felt this way so I'm sure someone will correct me, legitimately or not.

I do know for a fact that in Melee if you missed your sword plant and L-Canceled, there was still lag, since it is only half the animation, and you could be punished, just have a smaller opportunity to do so. If this New L-Cancel is in the final release, it could unintentionally make harder hitting/slower aerials bypass the element that balanced them out in the first place, the free hit your opponent gets for your mistake. More often then not, one has to fast fall similar aerial Standard attacks, so the opponent no longer has that large window to dodge the attack.

In short, this leaves the move a dud if you don't fastfall, since there is no true 'Risk versus Reward' in place to make any tactical use of the maneuver. This also will be prevalent in other characters as well, Bowser's B-air comes to mind, and since there is a slower vertical speed in the game moves such as these should be easier to connect from a (slightly longer) short hop. But we, as with just about everything discussed on these boards, will have to wait and see.

Well, yes. I mained Link since 64 as well; thus why it was almost the first thing on my mind. Although, I wouldn't say Dair is one of my main killing moves, It definitely is worth it's weight in gold when it comes down to it. I tend to get more kills from Nairs off the edge of the stage to keep people off and away.

But like I said, this shouldn't be too much of a hassel as long as us Link mainers make sure that our Dairs will connect this time around.



Wyvern - Yes! That is basically exactly what I was trying to say when I mention it'll be impossible to L-cancle short hopped moves! Most moves just plain arn't fast enough! However, as Sliq mentioned, with certain moves we could just wait for the animation to end before fast falling. *coughLink'sNaircough*

=] But overall very nice to hear someone here having very similar thoughts.



And when it comes down to it, yes. Basically everything here is being discussed on a 'we'll-just-have-to-wait-and-see' basis.

 

[MookieRah]

Why do some people talk about speculation as fact?

What does this have to do with the topic? What do you know of the subject matter? How much thought have you put into this topic? Most people who are REALLY participating in this thread have a lot of *insightful* speculation that can be debated upon by others with other insightful speculation. Having a bit of confidence in your opinion doesn't make you close minded, nor does it make you an ***.

 

[slisenberg]

The whole point of the board is speculation.

 

[Psydon]

When I heard about the new L-cancel, I immediately tried to think of ways that it would help out the Ice Climbers, seeing as I plan on having them be my main.

Since the new L-cancel auto-cancels instead of reducing lag, I was thinking that SHFFL assaults may act like Auto-cancel desynchs, allowing them to potentially pressure opponents soooo much better that they could in Melee. Desynching in Melee was mostly a defensive or set-up manuever. You rarely ever saw an IC player really heavily on Desynching. Now Desynching can become a more offensive tactic, possibly making Desynch combos more viable, especially since Chaingrabbing is more than likely out, with everyone being so floaty.

Hopefully, we'll get more priority to our air attacks to help.

That's all well and good....but what's Desynching?

I'm sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about. Wavedashing shares an animation with landing. There is LAG in a wavedash, although minimal, there is still time right after the WD where you can't do ANYTHING.

You guys need to realize that some aerials end in the air before you land, even when you short hop, and therefore do not require l-canceling (Jigglypuff: nair, fair; Marth: nair, fair, bair; Link: bair; etc.). All you have to do is time your FF AFTER the move animation ends.

Basically, don't just attack your opponents shield like an idiot. Space yourself or use some mindgame to avoid getting shield grabbed. Plus, now that WD'ing is out, people can't maneuver out of their shields as easily, therefore making shield pressuring easier, and shielding less viable.

QFT

I think that this new form of L-cancel might work pretty well with falling multi-hit attacks.

EX: FF Samus' uair when you have a fully charged shot, and mash B as you hit the ground. The hit(s) (you'll get at least 1) will lock your opponent in front of you and in a state of stun long enough to unleash the fully charged shot. Granted, that's completely theoretical, but if it works there are plenty of other potential applications. For example:

SH -> FF -> [Lagless] Mario's dair -> Grab -> Up Throw -> Up Tilt -> Up Tilt -> Up Smash -> Combo of choice

If it works it'd be a wonderful way to maintain your offensive momentum and combo speed. Add in doing an attack as you rise from the shorthop and you get even more potential.

And hell, it's not like this new form of L cancel always has to be done in a SHFFL.

Ex: Slam the opponent down with Mario's fair after double-jumping, then fastfall into his nair as they get up, knocking them away (or fastfall into his dair, as shown above). If my understanding of this new L-cancel isn't flawed, once you hit the ground about a quarter of a second after knocking them away your lag is cancelled and you can immediately move to start edgeguarding.

Again, it's all purely theoretical, but hey, the point of this topic is speculative discussion.

BTW, a question for those who were at E4A: Do we know whether or not the lag cancel will occur if you just use an aerial before you land, whether or not you fastfall?

 

[eep the defiler]

Reflecting the charachters in melee some of them would benefit and others would be worse off by this change

I guess we'll have to wait until Brawl comes out to decide for sure though

And someone should think up a name for the new "L-cancel" since the L button has nothing to do with it (even though i use the R button in the first place)

 

[Sliq]

Reflecting the charachters in melee some of them would benefit and others would be worse off by this change

I guess we'll have to wait until Brawl comes out to decide for sure though

And someone should think up a name for the new "L-cancel" since the L button has nothing to do with it (even though i use the R button in the first place)

People claim that the "L" in "L" cancel stands for lag (i.e. lag-canceling), so it would still make sense.

I'm pushing for "El Cancel," because that name is awesome.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

Sliq, are you asleep at the start of that gif in your sig?

 

[robosteven]

Hello, and welcome to The New L Cancel Discussion Thread. This thread is for serious discussion about the new kind of L cancel. This can be done by fastfalling, then doing your attack, and it will remove all lag.

I know I am commenting a little late on this one, but does that mean that all you have to do to remove all aerial-attack-lag is to fastfall?

Sweet.

Now I can compare to some other people who claim to be "experts." Maybe.

...and, no, I'm not referring to the REAL experts.


...wait, is there still wavedashing? (Kinda off topic...but still.)

 

[Santini]

I know I am commenting a little late on this one, but does that mean that all you have to do to remove all aerial-attack-lag is to fastfall?

Sweet.

Now I can compare to some other people who claim to be "experts." Maybe.

...and, no, I'm not referring to the REAL experts.


...wait, is there still wavedashing? (Kinda off topic...but still.)

Yeah, that's how the new l cancelling works. Just make sure you're fast falling before you do your aerial.

And there is no wavedashing. There appears to be wavelanding (basically wavedashing after a jump) but since you no longer can control the trajectory of the airdodge, it will be implemented differently. That's from the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure it's right.

 

[_Phloat_]

Yeah, that's how the new l cancelling works. Just make sure you're fast falling before you do your aerial.

And there is no wavedashing. There appears to be wavelanding (basically wavedashing after a jump) but since you no longer can control the trajectory of the airdodge, it will be implemented differently. That's from the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure it's right.

That is correct.

Anyways, I cannot believe this thread is dying =[ People just want to come to the brawl boards to post "good idea" and get their post count up.. Its sad.

On a side note, its not to late to post, keep adding discussion.

Someone make El Cancel (o?) sigs now.

 

[thesage]

Well l-cancelling DjC's would be nearly impossible... I know Peach still has DjC, but now it's impossible to properly l-cancel it.... wow, Peach will be able to get her arial out faster than everyone else and have less lag afterwards.... Isn't that what really made Peach broken in melee? I mean Nintendo basically emphasized that strength she had and took away her d-smash...?

Honestly, Sheik's d-smash was more broken... >.< This game is gonna be supar balanced.

 

[AnorieN]

I think personally, that it's a good change. It will increase the pace of the game, which everyone should be happy about. The game is slower, much slower, and we need to grasp every chance to increase it again.

I'm also a big fan of long comboes, nothing is more fun than a gigantic Falco-chain-combo.

 

[geemann2236]

I'm not too happy about the change, mainly because I liked the old L cancel, and with ALL the lag removed, it would be a bit ridiculous.

 

[dragonairex]

If that is really an auto-L-cancelling,
doesn't it simplifies the game so we don't push so many buttons o_O??

The game was designed for simple controls but with huge potential and opportunity,
so should it be what it meant to be??

Somewhat too complicated techniques isn't the style of this game
I'm be surprized if they try to squeeze out every glitch in the game (which however, could never be done)

Everyone will just have to work it all over when it comes out, since it IS new...

 

[raphtmarqui]

The l-canceling system just sounds terrible to me.

 

[Zamiel]

I'm trying this out at the moment with Pikachu in training mode.

From what I can tell it doesn't work at all. Please advise.

When fast falling if I preform a fair or nair right before I hit the ground it will cancel the arial and leave no landing lag. (I can't reproduce this with uair or dair.) Is this what you are referring to? Because if so, how it is useful at all?

Edit: doesn't seem to work with link's dair either.

PS People need to stop posting in this thread who haven't actually played brawl rofl, its such a chore to sort through your posts "OMG I H8 L CANCELING" "NO WAI I <3 IT U SUX"

 

[Chiroz]

I'm trying this out at the moment with Pikachu in training mode.

From what I can tell it doesn't work at all. Please advise.

When fast falling if I preform a fair or nair right before I hit the ground it will cancel the arial and leave no landing lag. (I can't reproduce this with uair or dair.) Is this what you are referring to? Because if so, how it is useful at all?

PS People need to stop posting in this thread who haven't actually played brawl rofl, its such a chore to sort through your posts "OMG I H8 L CANCELING" "NO WAI I <3 IT U SUX"

People who havent played Brawl were posting in this thread because, back when this thread was being posted on NOBODY had played Brawl except for a very few people. Dude you just revived a really long dead post.


Anyways, the L-Cancelling seen at E-4-All (Around 3-4 months ago) is gone. Until now no new L-Canceling has been found, but aerials have been tweaked to make the lack of l-cancel better (as in there are aerials with basically no lag, and then you got those which leave you open for minutes) from what I've heard.

 

[Zamiel]

Allright, thanks. This thread was already on the front page when I bumped it, so it was hardly dead.

Mods, please delete this ****ty waste of time thread that I just spent the last 10 minutes of my life reading. =\

 

[iharfor]

**** it, I was excited for the whole hour I was reading every post. Then I had to read the last page. Brawl has ripped my heart out.

 

[ipitydatfu]

so you;re saying is that, with this new L-canceling, i can instantly pull Link's Dair out of the ground?

 

[himynameisruss]

this thread was created when the demo was played. it was discovered that if you fast fell first then did your arial all of the lag would be cancelled.

however it was removed from the official game, therefore making this thread pointless.

please lock

 

[Razed]

Wave dashing is a glitch. Final Smashes add more depth into the game.

Take your *** out of Tourneyf@g.

While I agree that tutata or whoever it was is looking at brawl like a particularly ignorant and arrogant 12 year old, I fail to see how final smashes add more depth to game play. It's essentially a free ko or a free 40+% damage on your opponent if you get the smash ball... which I think is kind of lame unless it's a 1v1v1v1, in which case it can be fun to fight over.

 

[-sonny-]

so you;re saying is that, with this new L-canceling, i can instantly pull Link's Dair out of the ground?

No, there is NO L-CANCELING IN BRAWL. This is an old thread that was created way back during the E4All Demo, when this kind of L-Canceling was still possible. Unfortunately, you no longer can.

 

[studly]

sorry i had two windows opened and i posted in the wrong one

 

[Mikezor]

There was no need to post here studly, just let this thread die it is ferdiculously old.

 

[Tip C]

What are they doing to this game, they rilly need to pay attention to the competitive gamers man. What they think the cpmpetitive gamers adre just gonna go online and pwn newbs??? No this is not the case, if u have played the n64 version on the pc u will know that good player dont even like to play newbs. Auto sweet? ohhh wow just when u took the wavedash from us u give us auto sweet? Oh and the guy who made this game is stupid, wavedashing is something that makes the game more fun allowing for the player to slide across the map giving him adequate spacing, it also allows him to perform any move as if he were in a neutral position. Wait your telling me this is cheap???? Wait lets take it out and add FINAL SMASHES, that will be more cheaper than dog $@$!, and dog $@($@ dosent even move, man they arlready killed halo 3 for me, no bxr, bxb, they are killing all the new games for competivive players!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! making me mad!!!!!!!!!!!!

so true i agree totally but i hope they will find new exploits its bound to happen, like DLX and stuff