SheerMadness
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2005
- Messages
- 4,781
Too hard to put a number on the matchup.
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The New Match-up Chart
- Thread starter t3h Icy
- Start date
D
Deleted member
Guest
both characters wreak each other but it is easier for Falcon to hit / not get hit by Yoshi
if Falcon chooses to play like a ***** its even harder for Yoshi
if Falcon chooses to play like a ***** its even harder for Yoshi
Fireblaster
Smash Lord
I would like to argue against 3 of ness's matchups in this chart, specifically against luigi, samus, and link. How is it that ness has an advantage in these three?
At the very LEAST an even matchup for those 3. Link runs in circles around ness and can completely outcamp him with projectiles and bigger attack hitboxes. Not only that, but link's recovery is slightly better than ness's and link can edgeguard ness easier than ness can edgeguard link.
I don't even see how it's possible for ness to have an advantage on samus. Her beastly Dair and Bair alone are good enough to beat the crap out of ness, but her fsmash also negates all DJC approaches close to the ground. The only thing ness can do is do a few DJC'd uairs and then just hope to keep hitting samus enough times to knock her off the edge.
As for ness vs Luigi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqfYRJNxgz0
At the very LEAST an even matchup for those 3. Link runs in circles around ness and can completely outcamp him with projectiles and bigger attack hitboxes. Not only that, but link's recovery is slightly better than ness's and link can edgeguard ness easier than ness can edgeguard link.
I don't even see how it's possible for ness to have an advantage on samus. Her beastly Dair and Bair alone are good enough to beat the crap out of ness, but her fsmash also negates all DJC approaches close to the ground. The only thing ness can do is do a few DJC'd uairs and then just hope to keep hitting samus enough times to knock her off the edge.
As for ness vs Luigi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqfYRJNxgz0
SilentSlayers
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2009
- Messages
- 328
*Slow clap*
Kinda agree with most of your post, although one match doesnt mean anything. Imo those are close matchups where it's all about the player and stage is important too. For example Link > Ness on Hyrule but i think its the opposite on dreamland.
DMoogle
A$
I strongly disagree with this. Link is a total cinch for Ness to edgeguard, so much that Ness is probably Link's worst edgeguarding nightmare. PK thunder if Link is recovering high, or just wait and grab/yo-yo/dash-attack when he lands, n-air (for slightly higher percents) or d-air for when Link is recovering at mid/low height.
Blue Yoshi
Smash Master
I would agree that in general, when the entire cast is considered, Link's recovery is better than Ness's, but in terms of this match-up, where only each other are considered, Ness will survive more often than Link.
DMoogle
A$
I don't think Luigi has an advantage on Samus at all. I think I play a very good Luigi, but good Samus players are really really hard to approach with Luigi, and Samus is probably the hardest character to combo for him.
SuPeRbOoM
Smash Master
I would say ness has adv over link actually
Blue Yoshi
Smash Master
I would say Kirby > Puff. Kirby has too much priority. When side by side, Kirby wins in all situations... whether it is in the air or on the ground. Yes, Kirby is dead easy to combo for puff, but it doesn't even out the matchup.
SSBPete
Smash Lord
from experience:
jiggs > kirby
samus > ness
ness > link
luigi > ness
jiggs > kirby
samus > ness
ness > link
luigi > ness
Frogles
Smash Ace
yah link can outcamp ness but he isn't a speed demon like fox or falcon. he's gonna get caught and when he does he's ****ed. one hit will turn into big damage or even a ko. ness completely ***** links recovery. all he really needs is pk thunder and grab. I GUESS link has advantage on hyrule if he runs away all day and ness chases him all day. ness takes dreamland easy. even at the very least for NESS.
dair and bair aren't good enough to beat a character by themesleves and fsmash isn't quick enough to spam him out of djcs. samus just sucks and is all defense. ness can actually get something going off of a hit, she cant. she doesn't really have a good way of getting him off the stage whereas ness doesn't have a problem getting her offstage. he pretty much ***** every recovery that isnt pika/kirby/jiggs so it goes without saying that he won't have a problem edgeguarding samus. ness has advantage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V69OytR77JY
you might as well have posted something like that because one match doesn't mean ****. i thoght you were gonna 3-5 stock going in lol.
and i wanna bring up kirby vs ness. ness can't do ANYTHING in this match up because of kirbys priority and range. this matchup is just as bad as pika vs ness if not worse. utilt pretty much ***** ness by itself.
SilentSlayers
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2009
- Messages
- 328
One match doesn't mean a lot, but it shows a lot.
DemonicInfluence
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2007
- Messages
- 512
Blue Yoshi
Smash Master
Hopefully this turns out better than the last chart. I tried suggesting some low tier matchups, with some even results, and was greeted with flaming and 'noob' remarks. According to most of the melee community, there are only 10 playable characters in melee. Everyone else sucks. (you get my point).
If the chart starts going well, I'll contribute as well, as not many people know the low tier matchups very well, so I can help out in those places. *cough* GaW = Falcon *cough*
If the chart starts going well, I'll contribute as well, as not many people know the low tier matchups very well, so I can help out in those places. *cough* GaW = Falcon *cough*
Blue Yoshi
Smash Master
There, I put some matchups up 
I would contribute a bit for puff, but seeing as there are hundreds of better puff players, I'll just let them do Puff's matchups instead.
I would contribute a bit for puff, but seeing as there are hundreds of better puff players, I'll just let them do Puff's matchups instead.
t3h Icy
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2009
- Messages
- 4,917
Thanks.
Anyway, back to this game.
Some Agreement:
Kirby = Jigglypuff to Kirby > Jigglypuff
Ness > Link to Ness = Link
Debating:
Ness > Luigi to Ness = Luigi
Ness > Samus to Ness = Samus
I would say Kirby > Jigglypuff, and I don't know about Ness'.
Anyway, back to this game.
Some Agreement:
Kirby = Jigglypuff to Kirby > Jigglypuff
Ness > Link to Ness = Link
Debating:
Ness > Luigi to Ness = Luigi
Ness > Samus to Ness = Samus
I would say Kirby > Jigglypuff, and I don't know about Ness'.
SuPeRbOoM
Smash Master
all ness needs is uptilt and throw against link
Fireblaster
Smash Lord
That's why link would only touch ness with a 20 foot pole (and some boomerangs and bombs)
asianaussie
Smash Hero
Does Link's D-Air beat Ness's U-Tilt? And is there any situation where a bomb will damage Ness holding Down-B?
IIRC links dair and ness utilt have the same priority and both hit each other. Also, Ness down+b is usless against the bomb.
Fireblaster
Smash Lord
Ness's Utilt beats Link's Dair in almost every way. Ness's Down B cannot absorb explosions, so bombs will always **** up ness.
asianaussie
Smash Hero
Wunderbar. Always thought that the bomb was absorbed by Down-B.
Link = Ness then, maybe very slightly in Ness's favor.
Link = Ness then, maybe very slightly in Ness's favor.
Tambor
Smash Journeyman
I agree with Link=Ness. Only a dumb Link would get caught in Ness' utilt.
D
Deleted member
Guest
link's dair will never beat ness's uptilt unless the up-tilt is ENDING or if you guys start up the respective moves at the same time then it will trade
link-s dair is pretty good as an approach, but you don't always want to aim directly for your opponent since some people have high priority tilts, smash attacks
Luigi vs Ness is even...Lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqfYRJNxgz0&feature=channel
Samus vs Ness is probably the only matchup outside of vs Jigglypuff that Samus probably has an even matchup.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqfYRJNxgz0&feature=channel
Samus vs Ness is probably the only matchup outside of vs Jigglypuff that Samus probably has an even matchup.
t3h Icy
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2009
- Messages
- 4,917
Agreement:
Kirby = Jigglypuff to Kirby > Jigglypuff
Some Agreement:
Ness > Link to Ness = Link
Ness > Samus to Ness = Samus
Debating:
Ness > Luigi to Ness = Luigi
Hopefully this won't cause a shift in the ranks. After these (and perhaps more), would anyone want to go through the mayhem that is Hyrule and Dreamland specific charts?
Kirby = Jigglypuff to Kirby > Jigglypuff
Some Agreement:
Ness > Link to Ness = Link
Ness > Samus to Ness = Samus
Debating:
Ness > Luigi to Ness = Luigi
Hopefully this won't cause a shift in the ranks. After these (and perhaps more), would anyone want to go through the mayhem that is Hyrule and Dreamland specific charts?
Lovage
Smash Hero
umm ness > link
thats the lovage word of the day
thats the lovage word of the day
Fireblaster
Smash Lord
Why would it be a problem if it causes a shift in the ranks? Also, isn't this already supposed to take into account all stages?
t3h Icy
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2009
- Messages
- 4,917
It's only because that the Tier List is almost entirely based on this chart. Also, this chart does take into account of all stages, but not individually. Fox might not be quite as uberly good in a chart based on Dreamland only, etc.
D
Deleted member
Guest
votes i think
Nybb
Smash Journeyman
The Melee/Brawl tier system is ridiculous anyway. They base lists off of things that are totally vague and unquantifiable. They say things like "character X has a lot of potential" or "character y has been doing well in tournaments." While this may be true, this should already be reflected in matchup charts, or else your matchup charts are wrong.
A tier list should just be based numerically on a matchup chart like how this one is done. It is simpler and it's how every other fighting game community does tier lists.
A tier list should just be based numerically on a matchup chart like how this one is done. It is simpler and it's how every other fighting game community does tier lists.
D
Deleted member
Guest
it doesn't matter as much for 64 since its more balanced, the top tier characters are set in stone, and the non top tiers are all fairly similar in **** levels (except samus)