The New Super Awesome Oregon Home Thread!!! :D

[JonnyW]

We need a portland vs corvallis crew battle!

edit:melee only of course

 

[Ratking1234]

Falco's recovery is better than Falcon's.

I seriously think Falco is even easier to take advantage of off the stage. And Falcon can make it back from way further. Both of those things make me think Falcons might be ultimately better.

If my argument was tired threads like this wouldn't still be relevant: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=312501
Guess who are the two best at actually being able to approach and also equally as good at not approaching.
Calling it a tired or passé topic is somewhat of a cop-out.

Don't really think it is a cop-out. I am just bored of hearing about it. People have been complaining about Fox since I started playing this game in '04, even when he was THIRD on the tier list still. I can't believe people are STILL complaining about this. Or really, just complaining about anything in general. Also, the post you linked gives me reason to believe Peach should be getting just as much complaint as Fox and Falco. You just don't have to play against peach, so you have nothing to complain about in that department. It seems also Peach and even Sheik to, have options to force their opponents to approach. They as well have very annoying projectiles.

I pretty much almost never want to leave the stage after getting stage spiked by your Firefox because it apparently does crap like that. The hardest part is ever getting you off the stage far enough for it to matter and that the only thing that goes through Firefox is fair...

Which will not hit you if you're coming at a sharp enough angle from below, which isn't exactly hard to make happen with a vertical recovery length rivaled only by G&W.

Well, being afraid is dumb. That is why I am a bad player like you, cause I don't like to go off the stage also. But it does win. Also, I was thinking more of Nair. As well, you have needles to setup for these kinds of things. I dunno, you should actually watch Foos vs. other characters, or talk to him. He is really good at taking advantage of this. The post you previously linked gives me reason to believe that your fear of going of the stage is unfounded. Hax seems to think Sheik has a large advantage over other characters at the ledge. This is an advantage that he thinks the top characters, with the exception of Fox and Falco, have. And Ledge game to me is like 50% of the game. If you can get fast and consistent cheap kills, it wins games.

Versus Marth? That's the only one that's really significantly easier as Sheik than Fox or Falco.

And Peach, and to some degree Ice Climbers; although Marth would be an even better response to them.

Watch someone like Cactuar or Cyrain play. You do not have to play Fox like Otto, Shane, or Jesse to be successful in any way. Hell, watch current PC Chris videos. SHFFL'd bairs, nairs, and straight up empty hops from him are amazing for killing, approaching, edgeguarding, and comboing. Uthrow->uair/bair/nair is amazing. The most demanding thing any Fox player should ever have to learn to be good is doing a decently low shine out of shield and wavedashing out of shine after hitting something. The only laser tricks necessary are turning around SHLs and being able to do low SHLs.

You don't have to play Fox in a very complex or demanding manner. I don't think anyone would disagree when I say Jesse plays in a flashy manner.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynjeIlBAIGM

I understand this, and have tended to play that way, for most of the time I have played (both before, and now). The video you linked, although I am sure there are plenty of others that would better support your point; it is Fox vs. Falcon, which is a terribly sad matchup for Falcon and involves very little from Fox to begin with. That video is also from 08, and I feel like the Falcon meta has probably changed a good deal since then. However, it seems that a player that can play extremely consistently like Otto, will beat a player that does not in the end; like one of those "take two players that are both perfect, but one plays perfectly "smart" and the other just plays perfectly technical" sort of scenarios. This stupid scenario however mirrors the same theory crafting and complaining, you have employed in your previous posts. In practice (which is the reality), you are definitely right. Doing what players Like PC or Cactuar do, is really good and extremely pragmatic. But using your same ******** logic that has began this conversation, playing like Otto, at a consistent level, is ultimately better. It leaves almost no openings because you are always on top of them, you aren't missing any L-cancel's, or shines, so you are never getting grabbed; there is no chance for your opponent to react because they don't have any room to; you are pretty much always zero to death comboing, because all you need is one good hit and your crazy reaction speed. This shouldn't be that hard considering how much pressure that play style, with that consistency creates. If you can play like that, it makes Fox or Falco as good as you are actually making them out to be.

[This isn't to discredit the way Otto plays, in some weird backhanded way also; he is just a really good example of a person that plays like a machine. I haven't played him in forever, and he is obviously better than me, or anyone in Oregon. And to my understanding plays incredibly technically, and now (unlike back when I last played him) incredibly smart as well.]

What I am trying to say with all of this, is that if you can play perfect, and technical, then Fox, or Falco are really stupid characters, and are as good as you are saying. However if you play the practical and pragmatic way; the way I feel is ultimately better to focus your energy on learning to do, [unless you are a human cyborg] as good as it is, there are opportunities in which your opponent can take advantage of you. And playing against people who play this way, these things just need to then be taken into account. You can't be lazy and expect to be good at this game.

P.S. Stop smoking right before playing me in bracket.

No



































And no Johns.

I am the best. You must be punished for your transgressions Ratking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7_lSP8Vc3o

You are obviously second, or ultimately better because you are consistent. I just meant when Jesse actually is being consistent. Which seems to be a rarity. So maybe you are the best... I just meant in theory... Jesus. Also disturbs me to know you are probably listening to that while playing.

 

[Surreal]

I wouldn't call it a john if the one you're playing with smells bad. (Not saying you do, but cigarettes do)

Like if you were playing against some sweaty guy who just like reeked (every arm movement of their's like lets out a puff of that stank) and it made it hard to do anything without coughing or gagging, I couldn't consider that a john to complain if they smell like the inside of a dumpster in Portland.

 

[indigestible_wad]

Gage that song is oddly catchy, and the visuals were distrubing enough to be interesting. Also the lipsyncing is terrible.

 

[TheCatPhysician]

I should put that song on repeat next tournament and see if I do any better.

Gotta imitate the pros' tacticts, right?

 

[Ratking1234]

I wouldn't call it a john if the one you're playing with smells bad. (Not saying you do, but cigarettes do)

Like if you were playing against some sweaty guy who just like reeked (every arm movement of their's like lets out a puff of that stank) and it made it hard to do anything without coughing or gagging, I couldn't consider that a john to complain if they smell like the inside of a dumpster in Portland.

I would. Part of being good, is tuning **** that hinders your playing, out. For me it is trying to tune out my emotions, and that is like 40% of why I am not good. I complain about it, but very rarely is it my justification for why I lost. When I get emotional, I get out played, it's that simple. If I was a better player, then it wouldn't be a problem. Part of being a good player, isn't just being able to deal with what is going on in the game, and knowing how to play the game, but also balancing all the external factors as well.

Also, for me to not smoke between matches, is equally as detrimental as it is for him to have to smell it. That **** resets me, and calms me back down. Maybe he should try it

 

[keeper]

I seriously think Falco is even easier to take advantage of off the stage. And Falcon can make it back from way further. Both of those things make me think Falcons might be ultimately better.

Falco's recovery/recovies is dynamic, can sweetspot, and has a hitbox.

Don't really think it is a cop-out. I am just bored of hearing about it. People have been complaining about Fox since I started playing this game in '04, even when he was THIRD on the tier list still. I can't believe people are STILL complaining about this. Or really, just complaining about anything in general. Also, the post you linked gives me reason to believe Peach should be getting just as much complaint as Fox and Falco. You just don't have to play against peach, so you have nothing to complain about in that department. It seems also Peach and even Sheik to, have options to force their opponents to approach. They as well have very annoying projectiles.

Fox and Falco's lasers come out and end much faster than Sheik or Peach's projectiles. Both Peach and Sheik have amazing projectiles that render a lot of the rest of the cast useless and hinder many others. Maybe Peach will become the new "good character that people hate if they didn't already" character. She is held back by her ground speed and that Fox kills her very easily.

Well, being afraid is dumb. That is why I am a bad player like you, cause I don't like to go off the stage also. But it does win. Also, I was thinking more of Nair. As well, you have needles to setup for these kinds of things. I dunno, you should actually watch Foos vs. other characters, or talk to him. He is really good at taking advantage of this. The post you previously linked gives me reason to believe that your fear of going of the stage is unfounded. Hax seems to think Sheik has a large advantage over other characters at the ledge. This is an advantage that he thinks the top characters, with the exception of Fox and Falco, have. And Ledge game to me is like 50% of the game. If you can get fast and consistent cheap kills, it wins games.

I know I need to work on edgeguarding. It's not something you learn when over half of one's practice is on computers.
Sheik's nair only hits if I maintain ledge invincibility.

Fox and Falco are both "center stage" characters. If you own the middle of the lowest spot of the center of the stage as either of them, you are in a very good position to do almost all that you please and are also as safe as possible. They work from the center out utilizing their combos and maneuverability.


Sheik, Marth, and Jigglypuff are "ledge" characters. You want to own a part of the stage near the side to take advantage of flubs made by other characters to set up gimps. Marth can be a center stage character, but he'll never kill off the ceiling (Jiggs and Sheik rarely do as well, it's a very situational option).

Following that, being a center-stage character gives an inherent advantage of control over ledge characters as approaching from the side as a ledge character will put you at a position disadvantage. If you're above either Fox or Falco, you're in a bad place (really, being above anyone is a bad place though, that's half of the Sheik vs. Marth match-up). This matters since Fox/Falco have the starting positional advantage and have much more ease getting back to said position.

I'd also say Fox being able to kill almost any character at 4% is pretty damn good with shine and Falco's spike being what it is.

And Peach, and to some degree Ice Climbers; although Marth would be an even better response to them.

I don't understand this. I'm sure Binx would be more precise in saying Fox is a lot better against Ice Climbers than Sheik is. Fox is better against Peach if you play it campy and get good grabs.

I understand this, and have tended to play that way, for most of the time I have played (both before, and now). The video you linked, although I am sure there are plenty of others that would better support your point; it is Fox vs. Falcon, which is a terribly sad matchup for Falcon and involves very little from Fox to begin with. That video is also from 08, and I feel like the Falcon meta has probably changed a good deal since then. However, it seems that a player that can play extremely consistently like Otto, will beat a player that does not in the end; like one of those "take two players that are both perfect, but one plays perfectly "smart" and the other just plays perfectly technical" sort of scenarios. This stupid scenario however mirrors the same theory crafting and complaining, you have employed in your previous posts. In practice (which is the reality), you are definitely right. Doing what players Like PC or Cactuar do, is really good and extremely pragmatic. But using your same ******** logic that has began this conversation, playing like Otto, at a consistent level, is ultimately better. It leaves almost no openings because you are always on top of them, you aren't missing any L-cancel's, or shines, so you are never getting grabbed; there is no chance for your opponent to react because they don't have any room to; you are pretty much always zero to death comboing, because all you need is one good hit and your crazy reaction speed. This shouldn't be that hard considering how much pressure that play style, with that consistency creates. If you can play like that, it makes Fox or Falco as good as you are actually making them out to be.

[This isn't to discredit the way Otto plays, in some weird backhanded way also; he is just a really good example of a person that plays like a machine. I haven't played him in forever, and he is obviously better than me, or anyone in Oregon. And to my understanding plays incredibly technically, and now (unlike back when I last played him) incredibly smart as well.]

I honestly just really liked the video and couldn't find one of Cyrain beating Tope since Tope has his number. Not to mention Cactuar is fun to watch and name searches himself all the time for some reason. I don't think Falcon metagame has changed much, more that people don't use him as much unless they are one of those weird, successful, Captain Falcons. If anything, Falcon has gotten campy with spacing aerials.

I have no idea why so many people play Falcon. He's straight up horrible against spacies and Sheik. That video kind of demonstrates that. I feel it also demonstrates OOS options that are lacking or not lacking in regards to many characters. That is a different topic.

I feel if Otto actually played a more pragmatic style he'd see more success. If someone has such an amount of tech skill, they will have an absurd amount of technical consistency that can be applied to more realistic scenarios. See: Mango's ridiculous Fox. Otto does play smarter than he used to, but I still think he needs to slow down and use more of the abuses he holds instead of the "wow that's really cool man" stuff he does.

What I am trying to say with all of this, is that if you can play perfect, and technical, then Fox, or Falco are really stupid characters, and are as good as you are saying. However if you play the practical and pragmatic way; the way I feel is ultimately better to focus your energy on learning to do, [unless you are a human cyborg] as good as it is, there are opportunities in which your opponent can take advantage of you. And playing against people who play this way, these things just need to then be taken into account. You can't be lazy and expect to be good at this game.

What opportunities can they take advantage of?

No

And no Johns.

Do it.

I would. Part of being good, is tuning **** that hinders your playing, out. For me it is trying to tune out my emotions, and that is like 40% of why I am not good. I complain about it, but very rarely is it my justification for why I lost. When I get emotional, I get out played, it's that simple. If I was a better player, then it wouldn't be a problem. Part of being a good player, isn't just being able to deal with what is going on in the game, and knowing how to play the game, but also balancing all the external factors as well.

Also, for me to not smoke between matches, is equally as detrimental as it is for him to have to smell it. That **** resets me, and calms me back down. Maybe he should try it

Explain to me how one tunes out things that are subconscious when the whole idea of subconscious is that you don't tune it out. After tuning out people, the bad music playing, and other TVs, there's only so much sensory information that can be taken in and filtered out. It's like if I could somehow withstand eating raw garlic cloves prior to playing you and intentionally mouth breathing in your direction the whole time, it's going to **** with you and you're not going to like it, though I doubt it would give you a headache as does the smell of smoke to me.

I don't plan on picking up smoking and it's not like I'm going to go beat off right before playing you then somehow fashion a manner so that you have to smell my semen the whole time I'm playing you.

 

[Peach Masta]

Glad Wad knows what's up with Kpop

 

[keeper]

Gage, you should update the first post so that it has the Best Bout thing. It'd be helpful to new(er) people, I think.

 

[Peach Masta]

Man that front page was so outdated haha

 

[Cactuarz]

where will it be on wednesday? I guess i could make it to portland

 

[indigestible_wad]

Explain to me how one tunes out things that are subconscious when the whole idea of subconscious is that you don't tune it out. After tuning out people, the bad music playing, and other TVs, there's only so much sensory information that can be taken in and filtered out. It's like if I could somehow withstand eating raw garlic cloves prior to playing you and intentionally mouth breathing in your direction the whole time, it's going to **** with you and you're not going to like it, though I doubt it would give you a headache as does the smell of smoke to me.

First of all, I enjoy the music they play there, and second, I enjoy your analogies. They make me laugh.

I generally seem to enjoy foreign pop, and to an extent english pop as well.

 

[christianizcool]

I can't make it Wednesday ( Have a meeting. And every Wednesday after that I can probably only go from like 5 to 7:30. How should I get I get a decent amount of playing in? :|

 

[Cactuarz]

go anyways =o The super legendary G&W player is going to be there this week =o

 

[keeper]

First of all, I enjoy the music they play there, and second, I enjoy your analogies. They make me laugh.

I generally seem to enjoy foreign pop, and to an extent english pop as well.

It doesn't always suck, I just have major issues playing games while listening to music. It severely messes with me (when I do it at home). You'll never see me playing smash with headphones on.

I ate a garlic clove on Christmas Eve when I was 15. My mouth and throat burned for the next 3 days, I don't recommend being Wario.

 

[indigestible_wad]

where will it be on wednesday? I guess i could make it to portland

Best Bout Gaming
2409 SE 49th Ave.
Portland, Oregon 97206

 

[Juce]

explain to me how one tunes out things that are subconscious when the whole idea of subconscious is that you don't tune it out. After tuning out people, the bad music playing, and other TVs, there's only so much sensory information that can be taken in and filtered out. It's like if I could somehow withstand eating raw garlic cloves prior to playing you and intentionally mouth breathing in your direction the whole time, it's going to **** with you and you're not going to like it, though I doubt it would give you a headache as does the smell of smoke to me.

I don't plan on picking up smoking and it's not like I'm going to go beat off right before playing you then somehow fashion a manner so that you have to smell my semen the whole time I'm playing you.

it takes a lot of mental discipline. try meditation in your spare time.

debaser: you coming on wednesday? i can bring your cube for you to pick up.

 

[Surreal]

i want to read this debate/argument ratking and keeper are having, but it's wayyy to much reading for my taste...

debaser: you coming on wednesday? i can bring your cube for you to pick up.

Summary: Spacies are stupid good and are easy to use.

One says yes, one says no.

 

[AlienAllen]

So, how about that Oregon PR?

 

[keeper]

it takes a lot of mental discipline. try meditation in your spare time.

Meditating at a smash tournament?

 

[TheCatPhysician]

Just become one with your surroundings. You can meditate anywhere

 

[JonnyW]

So, how about that Oregon PR?

THiiiiiiiis

 

[Surreal]

Just become one with your surroundings.

In other words, main Fox.

 

[JonnyW]

In other words, main Fox.

Surreal MM meeeeee

 

[Surreal]

That requires money tho.

 

[keeper]

Just become one with your surroundings. You can meditate anywhere

You say that like it is easy.

In other words, main Fox.

Kakkate-koi.

 

[Juce]

You say that like it is easy.

it is. just time consuming

 

[keeper]

it is. just time consuming

Then why do you smoke?

 

[Juce]

to be addicted... i have no other reason. i get nauseous when i smoke ;/

 

[keeper]

:random:

 

[Mr Postman]

Surreal MM meeeeee

I don't get it jonny! you always what to MM but you don't want to come on Wednesdays and pay 5$ to play.

 

[Kami-V]

Just be like me and switch keeper. I am so upset with how ungodly slow Samus is that I am starting to put in the time to just become a fox main like I've wanted to be for 5 years but have yet to try to do. :|

I have also made a new level of johns. I was just playing with Eric and my pants were so ****ing uncomfortable (I have no idea why) and I kept complaining about it. Eventually just decided to take off my pants. I started playing better. Pants johns all the way

 

[Surreal]

Don't be a hipster and wear tight jeans.

Baggy clothes for life.

 

[keeper]

I can play Fox. I stopped playing him because I felt like I didn't have to think to play him the majority of the time and when I do, I just play campy and people hate it.


By campy I mean: BAIR BAIR BAIR BAIR LASER SOMETIMES BAIR BAIR BAIR GRAB LOL DED

 

[Kami-V]

I can play Fox. I stopped playing him because I felt like I didn't have to think to play him the majority of the time and when I do, I just play campy and people hate it.

 

[keeper]

There's also the factor that I hate it too and rather stickywalk into nair shine combos.

Regarding pants: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8tink7pZZg

 

[Juce]

if you're not thinking the majority of the time playing him, that just means you're better. if you want to have to think most of the time to beat someone, play low tier ;p

 

[keeper]

if you're not thinking the majority of the time playing him, that just means you're better. if you want to have to think most of the time to beat someone, play someone that isn't Fox ;p

Trollpostlol

 

[Kami-V]

if you want to have to think most of the time to beat someone, play low tier ;p

Samus main quoting for truth

 

[Surreal]

If you play a low tier, you don't think so much as go "ok let's get into position to use my 1 or 2 moves that don't completely suck....OVER AND OVER"