The NEW Yoshi Matchup Thread V2|Week 10 - Zelda

[bigman40]

I have TL exp. Whenever we get started, I'll debate in this one.

 

[Gindler]

I agree with this

its no less than even at the least

It should be 55;45 yoshi
not ROB


Anyway I'll go into toon link once i get some testing matches done locally or online
for a better input

Seriously? I have more trouble with decent ROBs than I do with great G&W's. player specific maybe?

 

[Deleted member]

What??!!

W/e i dont care put rob as whatever you want...

I think its silly.

 

[Chaco]

Link is a harder match up for Yoshi do to the continuos projectiles he can use. Although Yoshi's aerials **** him. Zair is not a huge threat. A decent Link, is not a big deal, an experienced one though is a pain.

 

[Snowstalker]

We need to get summaries on Oli and SNAAAAAAAAAKE!

 

[Poltergust]

I agree with this

its no less than even at the least

It should be 55;45 yoshi
not ROB

I agree. Was all the data we collected just for nought? =(

Also, where is Sonic and Lucas in the Well Known section? I don't see them...

 

[Shiri]

Sorry, I'm going to sit this one out. I have no Toon Link experience to speak of. Make this one good.

 

[Deleted member]

TL vs yoshi is slightly toon links favor. TL can SHDA, you cant outspam, then he bair combos and spams zair, his recovery is close to ungimpable if hes good, bombs are cool, TL has a not too hard time killing us (Fsmash and if hes smart he can throw a boomerang and edgecancel so he slides of edge, and then jump back and fair you).

*strongly disagrees with rob*

 

[Sharky]

I've got a little bit of TL experience, not much, but a little. I'll write a bit later.

Anyone go to the TL boards yet?

 

[Tidycats29]

Seriously? I have more trouble with decent ROBs than I do with great G&W's. player specific maybe?

Yes seriously

Its possible
but then again i have never really fought much G&W before
and the ones i have pretty much suck
XP

 

[slimpyman]

TL is a punk. with arrows and boomers, hes pretty much nulling any ground use of eggs. if he sh's arrows, approaching is a pain. his kokiri dagger is longer at poking than our squishy jabs. his priority pretty much keeps us from doing ANY dairs or BRINGPOPS from above. or anything from above. daggers in the butt.

i say he got a good hand of cards against us.

the best toon link i fought was Aura's
and she got me pretty good.

 

[Mmac]

*Sigh* Again with radical differences....

I dunno, but I have been struggling with ROB's for awhile now, but that might be because I have trouble avoiding his projectile game....

Again, I never final it. We are coming back to this one.

 

[iRjOn]

We dobt have a kokiri dagger >_> WE are near Links lvl with a master Sword...>_>

But yes T.Link can out spam yoshi but cant really gimp you freakin flutter >_<;...

If yoshi uses eggs well he can mess up our flow.
Down b is tricky to punish.
Yoshis grabs are alittle difficult to handle but you gotta get close frist lol
bombs imo skrew yoshi over...
I do think its in T.Links favor but not too much cause Yoshi's aerial game > T.Link's air game.
Zair helps with spacing alot! If Yoshi is in yo grill.

 

[Lobos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrljV8rA_P8

I got nothing, except this...personally I would say TL in favor 60-40 or 55-45.

Edit: That video is old, just an example.

 

[Ryusuta]

*Sigh* Again with radical differences....

Not that radical. Most of the people here have agreed that Yoshi does well, with just a couple of exceptions.

I dunno, but I have been struggling with ROB's for awhile now, but that might be because I have trouble avoiding his projectile game....

**** it, you did this with Marth, too. What's the point of even discussing this, if you're just going to base your scores on your own anecdotal evidence? That is such a gigantic rip-off.

Again, I never final it. We are coming back to this one.

I'll say to you like I said to SBR. Just because it's never finalized doesn't make it okay to rush it and be both inconsistent and inaccurate.

This is why I haven't said word one about Toon Link, yet. If you're just going to say whatever number you feel like without referencing one single word about what's being discussed, there's no point in talking any further about any characters. Even more to the point, R.O.B. has been the closest character the board has come to agreeing on in this topic so far, so don't tell me about not reaching any sort of consensus. I don't expect 100% of everyone to agree on any character, but most of us have been pretty confident about his placement.

Even you yourself admitted that the only reason you have trouble against R.O.B. is because you personally have trouble avoiding his projectiles and neutral air. Well, that's great and all, but you not being able to do something doesn't come CLOSE to meaning it can't be done. And considering a lot of us have had a VERY different experience, it sort of negates what you said.

Yoshi versus R.O.B. should be 5:5 or 5.5:4.5. Yes, I'm aware that the arbitrary number doesn't really make a difference, but I'm saying that, as a good faith effort so we know that what we're saying actually makes a difference, you should either change the ratio or submit non-anecdotal rationale for his placement.

 

[Gindler]

You can Bair Tlink arrows I believe. I've cancelled them out before anyway, probably depends on there the tail hits the arrow

 

[TLMSheikant]

I have a lot of yoshi experience with TL. One of my crew members uses him with dragonic reverse and all that bs lol. Anyway, i say its in TL's favor 60:40.

 

[Mmac]

**** it, you did this with Marth, too. What's the point of even discussing this, if you're just going to base your scores on your own anecdotal evidence? That is such a gigantic rip-off.

I did the exact same thing with Marth.... how? If you recall, I was one of the people going FOR 4:6, However people like Steel2nd and Emblem Lord kept bringing up good points on why that Matchup can't come to be. Until they are convinced that those points are minor or false, I can not do anything about the ratio.

If I am being Biased with my own opinions, Marth is not one of them.

This is why I haven't said word one about Toon Link, yet. If you're just going to say whatever number you feel like without referencing one single word about what's being discussed, there's no point in talking any further about any characters. Even more to the point, R.O.B. has been the closest character the board has come to agreeing on in this topic so far, so don't tell me about not reaching any sort of consensus. I don't expect 100% of everyone to agree on any character, but most of us have been pretty confident about his placement.

K, first of all, this is like the first time something like this has happened in like 5 Months, which that wasn't even true. How am I being biased and unreliable now? I just feel we don't have enough insight from the ROB Community to just jump into it, and 2 People is not an majority. I DID NOT base it because I struggle with ROB's (If I did, I would have made Lucario 3:7), I want to clear that right now. Plus there was also some things that were missed. ROB's UpB is a great counter DJAD because it increases his Horizontal Movement, which can cancel into an Aerial. ROB is actually one of the better characters to edgeguard Yoshi, and hearing the ROB's to not Physically edgeguard is just discouraging for me.

The point is that I want more of the ROB community to discuss with us before I can jump into something like this, I feel that we don't have enough discussion from the ROB's side to have a conclusive summary at the moment. It also doesn't help that BOTH sides of the coin are exploding on me about this.

For now, can we just get back to the Links?

 

[Poltergust]

I can't comment on the Links, but I do have one thing to say about Mr. Game & Watch (my apologies for going off topic a bit).

Move Mr. Game & Watch to 25:75. He just became a heavyweight. ;__;

 

[Deleted member]

Mr game and watch isnt that hard, if anything he should be lower.

 

[Chaco]

That new tech though makes him a ******* to kill though.

 

[Poltergust]

OK, let's stop talking about him for now. Maybe next week. I don't want to bring this discussion off-topic, but I had to mention it. =/

 

[Ryusuta]

That's for sure. That ****er has got serious survival ability now.

 

[Mmac]

No more Game & Watch! No more ROB!

I am more inclined to put ROB as more neutral after doing some research on some of the ROB's that were discussing this matchup.

Now can we finally get back to the Links?

 

[Ryusuta]

Hmmm... let me think.

No.

 

[Gindler]

That's for sure. That ****er has got serious survival ability now.

Yeah...if he's knocked across the farthest possible distance on the biggest level. Yoshi has the same thing apparently, just go into helpless state

 

[Poltergust]

...That's not funny... ;__;

 

[MrEh]

I'm more angry about Bowser.

POOR BOWSER! He died!

 

[Swordplay]

This was based on online experience. I have rewritten the match up page 64

 

[Ryusuta]

It is very easy to Dair Yoshi's recovery and send him flying.

Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

 

[Snowstalker]

Hey, Lucas and Sonic aren't up on Well-Knowns, and we still don't have a summary for Olimar or Snake.

 

[Mmac]

Hey, Lucas and Sonic aren't up on Well-Knowns, and we still don't have a summary for Olimar or Snake.

Yeah, just give me a second, and I kinda want someone to write a Summary. Long writing is not one of my strongest points. Takes me forever to write multiple paragraphs

 

[Chaco]

You guys are doin Link again?

We'll Ive done some testing and here is what I have found.

chaingrab on Link is almost not a factor. Link almost always has a bomb. If you even try to go for the CG, they will recognize and just bomb spam for a bit.

Zair isn't as big of a problem for Yoshi as other characters. Yoshi's should always be moving around in this matchup and take advantage of their air speed and such.

Yoshi's projectile game doesn't beat Links but it does stop Link from spamming. Link will go moble and forced into playing his spacing game again.

A Yoshi Hyphen smash Destroys Links spacing. He gets in there pretty quickly. Only thing Link has on Yoshi is mauling his recovery. It is very easy to Dair Yoshi's recovery and send him flying.


Yea we all thought it looked bad on paper for Yoshi but nobody considered how much of an asset air speed was in this matchup. It completely revamps the entire matchup. Yoshi gets in with that airspeed and follows up with quick tilts and stuff. Link has very few options as he doesn't have the moveset to counter this. Link is weak from behind so bairing past him is a great idea. I'll top it off with the fact that Link has laggy moves which yoshi can take a major advantage of once he gets past the fact that they are disjointed. But seriously, airspeed is such a major asset in this matchup. More so than you could ever think.

Its 50:50 against Link.

You can discuss TL on your own.

Okay dairing Yoshi's recovery is harder than ****. You don't realize that we don't just DJ. We do rising attacks, and egg tosses before we DJ. It's defense to keep our recovery safe. You are not going to get a dair on us easily, or many times ever. Maybe once out of fifteen times. And also, I'll aerial dodge just to take you with me if it comes down to it, or we can super jump through your dair. Yoshi's recovery is not the problem in this match up. So I wouldn't even point it there.

A skilled Yoshi is going to know what to do at all times and is going to be able to exploit your flaws, but the Link can do the same. So I'm going to have to say 50:50.

It's all on ability here.

 

[Sosuke]

I find Yoshi a tough matchup for Toon Link if you just stay in his face a lot.
Don't let him have breathing room to pull out projectiles.
Yoshi's recovery should be safe, and TL's is pretty safe too considering Yoshi's hit boxes. Try to throw eggs or something at TL when hes recovering. Don't go out there and aerial him.

Kill TL before he kills you. TL has sucks kill moves. Use your good ones to your advantage.

Zair ***** Yoshi pretty hard from what I've seen. Space well and get in reallllly close. Bair should be a good approach with Yoshi if you use your second jump afterwords to follow up or get away..


All I got.

 

[Chaco]

Abuse Dair. Like seriously, TL is one of the easiest to land dair on in my experience. And at higher percents he'll be knocked down, so use Dsmash afterward. Iunno why but I almost always land dair on him.

 

[Sharky]

I tend to get punished by usmash when I try that. =/

 

[Ryusuta]

Seriously. Don't abuse down air with EITHER Link. And you most CERTAINLY aren't going to stop a Yoshi return with it.

 

[Sharky]

Orion, he's talking about Yoshi's dair. I still don't agree, but just to clarify for you.=P

 

[Ryusuta]

Oh, my mistake. I thought they've been talking about the Links'.

 

[Poltergust]

I think Chaco meant during their recovery, in which he is 100% right. D-air will always hit without fail if you do it during their up-B. It's even worse for them if you d-air them out of their tether, too. =P