The No-Johns Ruleset

[Kal]

Because I'm always right! *spits*

 

[The Star King]

I would argue with you if you really wanted to but I really only argue about stuff in 64 Discussion, sorry

Making srs posts in Melee Discussion feels wrong to me somehow. It's weird.

 

[Kal]

It's only wrong if you disagree with me. Like the MBR, I'm ok with people stating their mind as long as it falls in hand with mine.

 

[Strong Badam]

lol you act as if cactuar infracts people who disagree w/ the MBR ruleset or something

 

[Stray Sheep]

I don't know, personally I like playing on neutral stages, cause I know in no matter what situation the stages bs won't kill me. Lik in Brinstar, the lave isn't that bad for the most part, but when you're at a high percentage and the lava rises it's pretty lame having to avoid the enemy and the damn lava. It's even worse if you're in a situation where you and your opponent have high percent at one stock each, or something like that, cause then it just feels random. What I hate about Brinstar is that when the lava rises it forces you and your opponent to approach each other, it takes the players out of the game, cause neither of them decided to get to the top, they had to. There are other things I don't like about the stage but that's the main thing, generally the stage just feels uncompetitive and it's really just not fun.

I just don't like the idea of being forced into taking risks or being forced to change up my entire gameplan by the stage at some arbitrary interval of time, because neither player caused it, it just happened for no damn good reason.

 

[Cactuar]

Maybe I should.

**

 

[Kal]

Do it!

I like Rainbow Cruise.

 

[_Kip]

Been some years since I to have done any Melee tournies. I find out about a local event happening this weekend and decide to take a look at the current rules and stages I can look forward to playing on. I see the official 2012 rules with ... well not very many stages. At first I thought it was a list that had other parts that were assumed known. One Counter-Pick? I then lurk through the thread and see a name I respected in the years of old, KishPrime, posting a No-Johns Ruleset. I agree with the reasoning behind the choices and like the larger pool of options that people have to keep in mind when playing.

 

[Respect38]

In regards to the stages which have notable problems in relation to camping, is it completely logistically impossible for there to be a subjective rule (akin to basketball's 3 second rule) that state that establishing yourself, uncontested, in a restricted zone (which would be the right side + guns on Corneria, the rock on Kongo Jungle, and the hoop section of MKII [or, even more restrictive, the entire platform that contains the walk-off]) without any attempt to return to an unrestricted area of the stage would incur some sort of punishment? There are other rules that require outside enforcement, so would this be any different outside of the fact that, even with these restrictions, the three stages would still be deemed unworthy to be counterpicks?

Side note to the current argument:
Prediction of DI, teching, spacing, approaching, etc. are NOT random. They are the result of the choices made by each player, and because they are 100% player controlled, they cannot possibly random. If someone techs in place 15 times in a row and the 16th time they tech roll left, it wasn't random, it was a conscious decision by the player, and if you miss a tech read or DI read, you made a mistake; it isn't like you were afflicted by randomness. The only scenario where something like that could be considered random is if the player teching just mashes his stick left and right so that neither player can accurately predict where they will end up. Of course, some options are a lot more dangerous than others, which makes it a ****ty way to play the game if you don't want to get ****ed up constantly.

Perhaps random is not the correct word, but I do think that the idea that is defended here doesn't make sense. Sure, these actions may involve human action, but so does the game of Rock, Paper, Scissors. Each of the actions you mention follow a similar relationship to any individual match of RPS. Just like the outcome of any single RPS game is effectively random, whether or not you get any individual tech or DI read is effectively random, and while humans can be predictable and be manipulated for greater odds (and this will set apart the good RPS players from the bad RPS players) this doesn't change the fact that the individual match still came down to you taking a guess out of 3 options hoping that your human opponent goes with the option that will screw him over. Whatever word other than "random" you want to use (as the word does have connotations of RNG in relation to "random" stages) doesn't change the fact that your option being the perfect option to **** over the other player is nothing other than luck, even if you can manipulate the odds in your favor over the long run.