The Official Kentucky Brawl PR

[DtJ S2n]

nah tutu I'll wreck you and I know you know it.

His one out of state tournament, his results looked roughly on the same level as S2's. Outside of that, he only had the Lexington Ranbats, in which he did win both, but again, he only played people within his city.

The way you worded this makes it sound like that's a bad thing. Let me reword this to make it sound fantastic for myself instead. Judo and I outplaced every other Kentucky player at a large regional. You can't say me doing as well as him counts against him, it counts for me. And then the rest of your reasoning is his lack of results. That's the given reason I was listed as an HM last year, although I was clearly better than that. I don't have a good counter argument for "lack of results" other than it's stupid . I'm really of the opinion that you all messed up by saying the Lexington Ranbats would count for this if you were just going to doubleback and say "they don't count enough" and then use it as reasoning to bring Judo down.

Also, for the next PR, expect it to be released much faster. Hopefully by May 4th, but if not, then by May 11th.

It shouldn't take you that long. Judo, Kero, and myself will in all likelyhood be inactives for that because the season is, as it stands, literally 3 months long. Now that we're not counting the LexiRanbats, will KY even have a local tourney in that time?

Your requirement is 3 tournaments which is more then ours, if you feel that's not enough to show consistency you need to expand the requirement. He came and won the requirements beating both of those that you put above him.

I'm inclined to agree. Except that if we expand the requirements for this, we're going to end up with a PR of something like

1. Ralph Cecil
2. Mister Eric
3. Shadowphoenix
Inactive: Everybody else

 

[ShadowPhoenix951]

Thanks everyone for all the criticisms. We're discussing what to do with everything as we speak (i.e. extending the season and changing the PR eligibility requirements). We won' change the current PR, however, this is an ongoing process, so any problems that we see, we will do what we can to fix.

 

[KassandraNova]

Judo did as well as S2?

Bad Judo! Bad! No Wheat Thins for you!

 

[DtJ S2n]

Thanks everyone for all the criticisms. We're discussing what to do with everything as we speak (i.e. extending the season and changing the PR eligibility requirements). We won' change the current PR, however, this is an ongoing process, so any problems that we see, we will do what we can to fix.

I agree, disagree, think this is the best thing to say, and also that this is a super scummy response. There's very little good that could come from trying to defend this PR and a whole lotta bad. But I don't like missing a complete response to any complaints. I want it changed, but I don't want to redo any art and also that would totally spoil any credibility your group or the PR itself has left as an "unbiased judge of skill." This is a ****ty situation for everybody involved except maybe Ralph because he got 1st on this PR.

And while I appreciate you trying to defuse the situation by bringing the matter back into your private group, I really do think the private nature of the discussion is a big reason you ended up with a list people are unhappy about.

Judo did as well as S2?

Bad Judo! Bad! No Wheat Thins for you!

Trolled just enough to where I can't ignore it, but not enough to where I can justify a legitimate response... Like a freaking mosquito bite.

 

[KassandraNova]

I was joking S2.

People are getting so butt hurt about being compared to other players for this PR.

Maybe try money matching them?

 

[MegaRobMan]

I'm cool with MRM Jr. being #1, but Kero didn't even put me on the same side of the bracket vs him at his tournament and me play Mr. Eric and Kel right in a row (if I had won I think I'd have played Ralph.) and that shows a sign of weakness since I'm bad.

Judo makes me check my bed for monsters at night. Not even just under my bed, but I gut my entire ****ing bed out.

<3 trolly Sailors awwwoooo

 

[Dooms]

Kero doesn't run tournaments...:v

 

[MegaRobMan]

Wait, I thought Joey=Dooms=Masq=Kero?

I'm so lost.

Why didn't I play vs this Kero or know who they were when I was in KY?

 

[KassandraNova]

Kero is not Joey, Kero's name is Jacob.

Joey is Masquerain.

 

[W.C.N]

I see the new image with dumb placements, where's that explanation? And why are there only results for some people?

Also this:The following time frame will be considered for this season's PR:
January 14, 2013 - April 27, 2013 (subject to change)

You should probably change that, and add in all the tourneys used not like 2..,

 

[Ori_bro]

Whose Amida and HHM?

 

[Dooms]

HHM (Honorable Honorable Mention) is Level 9 Computer. It's a joke.

Amida is a Kentucky player that uses Snake.

Kero is a Lexington player who doesn't go to S2D tournaments very often. Olimar.

Spec went to the exact same tournaments Judo went to.

Explanations later :v.

 

[DtJ S2n]

I've been pushing for Level 9 Snake to be HHM since 2010. They finally made the mistake of letting me do the art.

 

[W.C.N]

I've been pushing for Level 9 Snake to be HHM since 2010. They finally made the mistake of letting me do the art.

it being on there is as accurate as the top 3, so it fits

 

[Judo777]

How many non-locals did Kero go to just curious?

After seeing the art, now I'm mad because my picture isn't the biggest lol

 

[Ori_bro]

Judo he went to Armageddon.

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

The image is really nice

 

[Dooms]

Kero went to S2D (which doesn't count as a local for him), Brawl in the Hall, and a Cincy Ranbat.

 

[Mister Eric]

Originally, it was my idea to get the KY PR back on its feet.
My idea to create a system that can help KY grow as a community and get out there in the tournament scene.
I wanted us to be like FL; just have a tight community with a lot of pride who trains hard and wrecks faces at tournaments.
And a lot of these decisions for the PR (minimum of 3 tourneys, weighing some tournament wins over others, compiling a list of every single win/loss a player has in order to accurately track performance) was my idea.
I wanted this state to see our activity, our growth, and our strive to be better. I'm a competitor, always have been. And I compete in the sense to better myself and others around me because that's an aspect of life I really enjoy - bettering one's self. But when I see the responses to our (the panelists) attempt to bring this sort of growth to the community, I merely see disgust in an idea that was meant to only bring good.

I know that sometimes things are said by particular panelists that tend to light fuses underneath some of you, and I'm going to make sure that a lot of these touchy subjects get handled with more care and cooperation because one person speaks for all of us when being a panelist. That will be improved on.
And that's another thing, let us learn. Let us learn from each other, from you, and from trial-and-error. I don't care who's 1st place right now, I don't care that I'm struggling to even reach 5th place, I care about the growth and the bettering of the KY scene, something I fell in love with back in 2008 and really helped me grow as a person.

To those that are highly concerned with this PR, relax. We don't expect it to please everyone or be 100% accurate because in the end it's going to end up subjective one way or another. I know Judo is one of the best players KY has ever seen. We tried a route that relied entirely on numbers, and even then how one views those numbers is subjective. We chose what we thought was best, and we'll elaborate on the results. If it still makes you unhappy, let us know why and we'll see if any adjustments can be made.

Trial-and-error.
The life of a robot.

 

[W.C.N]

What message are you sending to the people you want to aspire when you take someone whos KNOWN as the best, Proved hes the best by being undefeated against his in state rivals, and move him to 3rd for bull**** reasons?

work hard become the best get 3rd on the ranking...meaning the rankings are bias and mean nothing

not to mention that even though once announced everyone said it was wrong and how to fix it and your guys response was, we feel this is still right, we will fix it next time

 

[Mister Eric]

What message are you sending to the people you want to aspire when you take someone whos KNOWN as the best, Proved hes the best by being undefeated against his in state rivals, and move him to 3rd for bull**** reasons?

work hard become the best get 3rd on the ranking...meaning the rankings are bias and mean nothing

I see your point, I do.
And us 5 panelists came to the decision we did. We will give detailed information soon and then you can determine if the 5 people that Judo beat which were considered good wins is good enough for the 1 spot compared to Ralph's record and others.

Did he enter enough tournaments to make the list?
We're the people you put above him in the tournaments he entered?
Who won those matches?

If he didn't have enough results it would mean he did t make it far enough in enough brackets, but since he was ranked period that means he did.

I've seen a couple of posts that show you're adamant about in-state head-to-head wins when it comes to determining the PR. But that isn't the only factor for us. We look at other wins and losses as well to see how they match up from person to person.
-------------------------------------------------------
If you continue to insult our intelligence, I will simply ignore you as will the rest of us. And don't blow up and be like "See?! They're ignoring people's opinions!" No. I'm trying to keep hostile behavior out of this thread. It's a shame we can't work together and figure things out without people, which in this case is you, talking down our panelists.
I signed up with this PR with ambitious behavior, and I admit I've fallen behind a bit due to almost graduating, research, work, dealing with a break up, etc. I'll even wholeheartedly accept the blame for why it took so long to post this PR list. But all johns aside, I'm back and trying to sort through this mess. I will continue to hear you out, but please, don't give me a reason not to.

 

[KassandraNova]

On a serious note, getting Judo to come to a tournament is like pulling teeth.


Just saying. Wheat thins get expensive. The only person to get him to go places is Spec, who pretty much acts as his sugar daddy and buys him everything.

 

[Judo777]

On a serious note, getting Judo to come to a tournament is like pulling teeth.


Just saying. Wheat thins get expensive. The only person to get him to go places is Spec, who pretty much acts as his sugar daddy and buys him everything.

Lol you obviously don't know spec if you think he buys me everything haha. Although he does every now and then. And to be fair, I obviously have no reason to be extremely busy especially on weekends......

 

[Dooms]

If we put Judo as number 1 without the data to back him up, it would be bias. We're trying to not be biased.

The only thing Judo has this season that means anything when compared to Kero, Ralph, and S2 is a win over all three of them. No one else can claim that on our list. Judo got above S2 due to that, since not only did he have the head-to-head loss, but he also had losses to both Ralph Cecil and Kero. These comparison losses really pushed S2 behind Judo.

However, let's look at Kero. Kero was even with Ralph, showing that he could beat Ralph, plus he has a win on me, 2 on Smile, and a win on SP. This basically turned into "Is Tech Chase win + head to head better than Joey & 2 Smile wins?" and we barely nudged Kero over Judo.

Ralph on the other hand was obvious one spot this season. Sneaky, Lumi, Sorasin (x3), Meekspeedy, Me, Kero, S2, SP, Mister Eric, Carls... Ralph went out there and walked all over people. He showed that he was obvious 1 spot this season, and his wins (regardless of the negative record on me and the even record on Kero) put him above Kero and Judo to us. Head to head does not over power the variety of powerful wins Ralph got.

That's just how it is. Unless we were to start prioritizing variety over head to head (hint: we're not), then this list probably wouldn't change much at all.

When we get a variety of strong results (Ralph), it shows that none of these matter. He has consistent good results.

This list is basically a "This is our list of players in order of how well they have done from x to y". From August to January, Ralph pulled in more strong results than Judo, and Ralph earned his 1 spot. Kero v Judo is debatable (and was debated), and we barely nudged Kero over Judo, and it was unanimous that our top 3 was listed in this order.

 

[KassandraNova]

Lol you obviously don't know spec if you think he buys me everything haha. Although he does every now and then. And to be fair, I obviously have no reason to be extremely busy especially on weekends......

Then go to S2D this weekend! :D And don't be a butt!

 

[W.C.N]

"Is Tech Chase win + head to head better than Joey & 2 Smile wins?" and we barely nudged Kero over

Yes seeing as how kero is better then smile, you had them face more then once so he beat someone he's better then both times

 

[Dooms]

For some reason, I believe that our decision would be the same regardless of Kero and Smile playing more than once.

 

[W.C.N]

I agree your decision would be the same, but I disagree that it is the right decision

 

[Judo777]

If we put Judo as number 1 without the data to back him up, it would be bias. We're trying to not be biased.

The only thing Judo has this season that means anything when compared to Kero, Ralph, and S2 is a win over all three of them. No one else can claim that on our list. Judo got above S2 due to that, since not only did he have the head-to-head loss, but he also had losses to both Ralph Cecil and Kero. These comparison losses really pushed S2 behind Judo.

However, let's look at Kero. Kero was even with Ralph, showing that he could beat Ralph, plus he has a win on me, 2 on Smile, and a win on SP. This basically turned into "Is Tech Chase win + head to head better than Joey & 2 Smile wins?" and we barely nudged Kero over Judo.

Ralph on the other hand was obvious one spot this season. Sneaky, Lumi, Sorasin (x3), Meekspeedy, Me, Kero, S2, SP, Mister Eric, Carls... Ralph went out there and walked all over people. He showed that he was obvious 1 spot this season, and his wins (regardless of the negative record on me and the even record on Kero) put him above Kero and Judo to us. Head to head does not over power the variety of powerful wins Ralph got.

That's just how it is. Unless we were to start prioritizing variety over head to head (hint: we're not), then this list probably wouldn't change much at all.

When we get a variety of strong results (Ralph), it shows that none of these matter. He has consistent good results.

This list is basically a "This is our list of players in order of how well they have done from x to y". From August to January, Ralph pulled in more strong results than Judo, and Ralph earned his 1 spot. Kero v Judo is debatable (and was debated), and we barely nudged Kero over Judo, and it was unanimous that our top 3 was listed in this order.

But doesn't Ralph also have losses to Me, Kero, You, Smile, maybe Eric and a few others? Like Ralph to my knowledge has a lot of losses. You said a while ago "your best win is Ralph but a lot of people have beat Ralph." I have wins against about half of the people Ralph has wins against (Kero, SP, S2, Carls) with none of the losses. If anything I think the results show that I am the most consistent, and that Ralph just has more results spread further across the board (some better wins [maybe] and some worse losses). I personally find wins on Ralph and Kero to be much more impressive since you guys want to put them above me. And Ralph has only gone even with Kero indicating that he doesn't even just have wins over who is, IMO, far and away his best win for the season. He has a negative record verse you and Smile. Also I heard Smile did spectacular at Rain, which makes it look looks like hes not actually far behind Ralphs caliber, meaning that you can't actually discredit the loss against him as much. Like I don't see how you can say his results easily put him at the top when he has tons of losses to a lot of the members of our own PR, and some not even ranked. Like my results have me going to 2 tournaments and winning, and then going to a tournament and only losing to top level players, and in the process I think I only beat players that were ranked in their state (Carls, Tech, S2, SP, Kero, Ralph, Spec) with a positive record on all of them, while Ralph can't even match my best wins Kero and himself (he has wins on Kero but not a positive record). And yes I know he can't play himself which can't be held against him, but it evens out with the fact that I can't play myself, so if anyone ever beat me they would get a freaking huge win (unless maybe they +3 or +4 mu me, but idk if you guys count that). Like you guys may have a case for Ralph but you can't possibly act like its really obvious and hes far out front.

 

[Mister Eric]

But doesn't Ralph also have losses to Me, Kero, You, Smile, maybe Eric and a few others? Like Ralph to my knowledge has a lot of losses. You said a while ago "your best win is Ralph but a lot of people have beat Ralph." I have wins against about half of the people Ralph has wins against (Kero, SP, S2, Carls) with none of the losses. If anything I think the results show that I am the most consistent, and that Ralph just has more results spread further across the board (some better wins [maybe] and some worse losses). I personally find wins on Ralph and Kero to be much more impressive since you guys want to put them above me. And Ralph has only gone even with Kero indicating that he doesn't even just have wins over who is, IMO, far and away his best win for the season. He has a negative record verse you and Smile. Also I heard Smile did spectacular at Rain, which makes it look looks like hes not actually far behind Ralphs caliber, meaning that you can't actually discredit the loss against him as much. Like I don't see how you can say his results easily put him at the top when he has tons of losses to a lot of the members of our own PR, and some not even ranked. Like my results have me going to 2 tournaments and winning, and then going to a tournament and only losing to top level players, and in the process I think I only beat players that were ranked in their state (Carls, Tech, S2, SP, Kero, Ralph, Spec) with a positive record on all of them, while Ralph can't even match my best wins Kero and himself (he has wins on Kero but not a positive record). And yes I know he can't play himself which can't be held against him, but it evens out with the fact that I can't play myself, so if anyone ever beat me they would get a freaking huge win (unless maybe they +3 or +4 mu me, but idk if you guys count that). Like you guys may have a case for Ralph but you can't possibly act like its really obvious and hes far out front.

Good points.
I'm at work right now so I don't have the side-by-side results chart with me, but do know Judo that no one was far ahead of another. There were many shifts and changes and discussions over how much merit your wins compared with other wins would have. This is a first time for a lot of us getting our hands dirty with results. And I thought having detailed results listed on the first page would help things out. But it didn't make it a cake-walk. It gave us a scope of results and we had to determine how to interpret it. Our biggest predicament came with people from the same town playing each other the most and how much of a win that would count as. It's like the way I would interpret a win over Ralph Cecil 2 tournaments ago, yeah I beat him but I still believe he is consistently better than me at this point in time. Is that a fair way to look at it? I'm unsure at the moment due to mixed responses. I even think SMILE is a top 4 contender, he just didn't put up results to convince us otherwise from Aug - Jan. Yeah he placed well at Armageddon, but his last 2 wins were against +3 MUs (I think they're +3 [D3 and ROB]) so now we have to consider that and see how others feel about it as well. Maybe we should start surveying people and addressing the opinion of others more. We're learning. And I know it's so slow-paced that it's agonizing, but I'm doing what I can. At least we're doing something. If we hadn't stepped up, there would be no posted results, no updated PRs. This PR helps put more eyes on KY. To some, it let's people see how well we're faring at the moment, to others it might show how dumb the panelists are lol, but so be it. Believe me Judo, at points, picking some of these placements almost felt like we could of just flipped a coin on it. And that..hell that makes me happy. That we still have a strong, diverse group of players in our state. And I can't wait to see how much stronger we all can get.

 

[W.C.N]

...results being on the front page only helps if you put them all there, which has yet to be done. Someone needs to take the time and clean up te first page

 

[Judo777]

Good points.
I'm at work right now so I don't have the side-by-side results chart with me, but do know Judo that no one was far ahead of another. There were many shifts and changes and discussions over how much merit your wins compared with other wins would have. This is a first time for a lot of us getting our hands dirty with results. And I thought having detailed results listed on the first page would help things out. But it didn't make it a cake-walk. It gave us a scope of results and we had to determine how to interpret it. Our biggest predicament came with people from the same town playing each other the most and how much of a win that would count as. It's like the way I would interpret a win over Ralph Cecil 2 tournaments ago, yeah I beat him but I still believe he is consistently better than me at this point in time. Is that a fair way to look at it? I'm unsure at the moment due to mixed responses. I even think SMILE is a top 4 contender, he just didn't put up results to convince us otherwise from Aug - Jan. Yeah he placed well at Armageddon, but his last 2 wins were against +3 MUs (I think they're +3 [D3 and ROB]) so now we have to consider that and see how others feel about it as well. Maybe we should start surveying people and addressing the opinion of others more. We're learning. And I know it's so slow-paced that it's agonizing, but I'm doing what I can. At least we're doing something. If we hadn't stepped up, there would be no posted results, no updated PRs. This PR helps put more eyes on KY. To some, it let's people see how well we're faring at the moment, to others it might show how dumb the panelists are lol, but so be it. Believe me Judo, at points, picking some of these placements almost felt like we could of just flipped a coin on it. And that..hell that makes me happy. That we still have a strong, diverse group of players in our state. And I can't wait to see how much stronger we all can get.

I understand where you are coming from, and understand that I don't really get mad over this so I'm not like trying to rip on the panel. I still really don't understand why we are discrediting tournament wins and also why people playing each other all the time matters all that much. Because even in Smiles case we can see that his wins weren't just attributed to him learning Ralph, its because he is a legitimately talented player, and also maybe is better at adapting to his opponent over longer durations of time (like training together). That's not something to be over looked its a player strength. Its just a less dominant strength in tournament play and it WILL be shown in results. More so I don't understand why Lex players playing together often hurts me specifically, because I'm not in that group. I literally play the people in Lex like once a month, maybe twice. I have been to less ranbats that any other person in the city (less than Flygon) and don't go to the weeklies that often (last weekly I played Marvel the entire time). The only people I play regularly are Spec, Hoboz and Earl. And secondly this should be highlighted by my character choice. The more two people play over time, the more the true matchup should be reflected (both players are starting to learn it) and since I get +1-2ed or worse by everyone in the state, the difference should either be them not learning the MU through inexperience of not playing it enough, or skill difference. I don't see how playing people all the time affects anyone but maybe S2's and Smiles results (who have good results outside of this).

 

[LOE1]

these longs posts hurtin meh eyes man.

i would post meh opinion on all of dis, but i feel i dont know enough about the subject to do so lol

 

[DtJ Composer]

That's the smartest thing anyone from Michigan's ever said in this thread

 

[MegaRobMan]

I don't see how anyone from the outside couldn't see things from Judos POV.

Like after reading all of what he said, if you can't refute any of that, it just seems like you wanted to build hype by not having Judo ranked higher.

Like I've thought about putting myself ahead of Tyser and David in melee in Nebraska on the PR because they aren't active, but it doesn't mean anything unless you truly belong where you are at, and that's why my ass is at #5 where it belongs. Though I might be #4.

 

[DeLux]

Judo, you're good enough you could just go to tournament, beat a bunch of people, and leave no doubt on who should be number 1. Just play man, and it'll take care of itself imo

 

[W.C.N]

That's what he did and they still moved him Down..,

 

[DtJ S2n]

Judo, you're good enough you could just go to tournament, beat a bunch of people, and leave no doubt on who should be number 1. Just play man, and it'll take care of itself imo

I don't know who else he could beat to prove it.

Lexington Ranbat 1-5
4/6/2013
2nd of 16
Bracket

Winner's Bracket

Beat Jacob (DK vs Ganon/Wolf) 2-0
Beat AG (DK vs MK) 2-1
Beat SP (DK vs Falco) 2-1
Lost to Kero (DK vs Oimar) 0-3

Loser's Bracket

Beat Twig (DK vs Wario) 3-2

Grand Finals

Beat Kero (DK vs Oli) 3-2
Lost to Kero (DK vs Oli) 2-3

TTar has the bracket image.

 

[Tyranitarphantom]

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/PlaziusGenji/LexingtonRanbat5_zps14056d9c.gif
as requested

 

[Judo777]

Ttar, your picture is terrifying lol Imma have nightmares