The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v2.0

[Tenki]

flub knee's "weak" hitstun combos into stuff in midair, like U-air, if you hit with the very end of it.

I don't think flub to sweetspot is a real combo, but more of a "DI" and movement limiter/trap, especially if the opponent doesn't have a double jump.

U-air only juggles if the opponent fails to trade hits/outprioritize or doesn't airdodge, but in my experience, it's usually airdodgeable. Of course, doing airdodge isn't always the best choice, especially if he hasn't started his attack yet (because U-air > opponent airdodge > sweetspot KoJ is win), but it pressures the opponent to react earlier due to its vertical reach in comparison to his normal jump animation, similar to how you can do that horizontally with Sonic's speed.

 

[Melee1]

In my opinion the only reason Falco is high on the tier list is because it has one of the lowest learning curves in the game... Falco is a very easy character to beat..

 

[Vorguen]

So in your opinion which characters have the hardest learning curves... aside from Ice Climbers. At least for me it was a lot more difficult learning Falco than Snake, Olimar, and DDD, all which have pretty high learning curves as well.

 

[Sean²]

Every character has a very low learning curve...even Ice Climbers. It only takes a few hours to get all their stuff down. After that, it's all the player.

But in a game where there's little technical skill involved, I think it would be correct to say that the character with the highest learning curve would be the character at the very bottom of the tier list, right? That would be the toughest character to use effectively in a competitive situation. So AFAIK, Falcon has the highest learning curve.

 

[Aiko]

learning curve is not taken into account for tier lists as the tier list assumes:

1. Top level play
2. Equal skill level
2. Character Potential
3. Past tournament results

By top level play and equal skill level, this means players who have already learnt the technicalities of the character. What it boils down to is the adaptability and number of options from characters.

so saying Falcon has the highest learning curve is stupid.

In melee, Fox is top tier and yet he has one of the hardest learning curves in the game!

 

[Ruse]

Falco is not better than D3 ):.

 

[Rawnie]

Falco is not better than D3 ):.

Uhh yeah he is. The only thing D3 has going for him is his CG and weight. Honestly IMO if nobody discovers any new AT's for D3, I believe GW and maybe Marth will pass him in the next teir list.

 

[Aiko]

I do believe D3 is on his way down, but your reasoning is wrong. Its not about the number of AT's a character has. Its about the characters potentials. A character could have 0 AT's and still be on top, if it were the best character in the game.

D3's metagame advanced alot earlier than falco's and hasn't advanced much recently but falco's is slowing down too. At the moment, with the numbers of Snakes going around, D3 is a viable counter to snake. If falco improves his matchup over snake, or snake improves his matchup over D3, then D3 will go down.

 

[OmegaXF]

The way the tier list keeps fluctuating I gave up and died a little inside......

 

[sMexy-Blu]

King DeDeDe ain't going down on the tier list son...

 

[da K.I.D.]

4th place is a stretch as it is, theres no way he can go any lower than that.

 

[BBoyindo]

4th place is a stretch as it is, theres no way he can go any lower than that.

I think it's quite possible that he goes down. I don't think either G&W or Marth will surpass him, but maybe Diddy Kong will. He has moved up a lot of spots on this tier list, and i'm quite sure he will raise even more, possibly surpassing DDD.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

I think it's quite possible that he goes down. I don't think either G&W or Marth will surpass him, but maybe Diddy Kong will. He has moved up a lot of spots on this tier list, and i'm quite sure he will raise even more, possibly surpassing DDD.

DeDeDe won't go down on the tier list unless someone founds out a way to counter his CG or ways to counter him and defeat him effectively.

 

[Infinite_Gamer]

so according to this MGW could beat Marth... can somebody justify that?

 

[Infinite_Gamer]

what does CG stand for?

 

[dean.]

what does CG stand for?

Chaingrab.

 

[da K.I.D.]

the tier list isnt a measure of who beats who, because otherwise, pikachu and olimar would be above D3, since they beat him. But even though they beat him, he is still a better character with better matchups all around, therefore he is higher on the tier list.

that is why GaW is above marth.

 

[Dekaisen]

I have no idea which one I am... I haven't decided between Pikachu or Mario. O.o

 

[BIGM1994]

um lucas should be up,way higher.not my fault scrubs cant use his recorvery

 

[phi1ny3]

I do believe D3 is on his way down, but your reasoning is wrong. Its not about the number of AT's a character has. Its about the characters potentials. A character could have 0 AT's and still be on top, if it were the best character in the game.

D3's metagame advanced alot earlier than falco's and hasn't advanced much recently but falco's is slowing down too. At the moment, with the numbers of Snakes going around, D3 is a viable counter to snake. If falco improves his matchup over snake, or snake improves his matchup over D3, then D3 will go down.

It is true that AT's don't make the tiers, but a good example of an AT that really screwed around with the second tier list is dribbling. That and D3/falco CG, if that counts (I dunno, my definition of AT is different from most).

 

[sMexy-Blu]

um lucas should be up,way higher.not my fault scrubs cant use his recorvery

The tiers are the expression of the Metagame that character has that means Tournament Results, AT's , Strategies, Matchups, etc.

And it isn't because of Lucas recovery is bad thats hes on low tier its because theres phew Lucas users out there that go to tournaments and advance his Metagame and he also has some bad matchups that don't let him advance in the tier list.

Note: Lucas recovery is actually really good.

It is true that AT's don't make the tiers, but a good example of an AT that really screwed around with the second tier list is dribbling. That and D3/falco CG, if that counts (I dunno, my definition of AT is different from most).

If AT's made the tiers Lucas, Link, Olly and Falco would be at the top.. So no lol.

 

[thesage]

Falco has at's?

 

[VietGeek]

Falco has at's?

In Melee he could only shoot one laser per shorthop.

Now he can do two.

It's advanced and that's pretty t e c h n i c a l tbqh.

 

[thesage]

That's not advanced at all. I can do that and I've played falco twice in the entire time I've had brawl. That's like saying ddd is technical.

(i know you were being sarcastic).

 

[Dekaisen]

My brother is insane with falco!! O.o out of all the videos I've seen of experts playing as falco, my brother still tops them. but I beat my bro sometimes anyway with either pikachu or mario :D

 

[phi1ny3]

The tiers are the expression of the Metagame that character has that means Tournament Results, AT's , Strategies, Matchups, etc.

And it isn't because of Lucas recovery is bad thats hes on low tier its because theres phew Lucas users out there that go to tournaments and advance his Metagame and he also has some bad matchups that don't let him advance in the tier list.

Note: Lucas recovery is actually really good.



If AT's made the tiers Lucas, Link, Olly and Falco would be at the top.. So no lol.

I didn't say AT's made the list, it does have some influences in otherwise stale placements.

Also, my definition of an AT= something that a casual player who never goes to SWF or watches Brawl guides on Youtube doesn't know how to do or isn't aware of.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Falco has at's?

Yes.
Boost grabbing, Gatling Combo, Dacus, Lazer Lock.

 

[phi1ny3]

Falco has at's?

Of course he does, DACUS, gatling, laser lock (though incredibly situational), pivot grab, boost grabbing.

Edit: Oh, didn't see the post before me, sorry!

 

[BBoyindo]

Hey guys isn't the gatling combo like the same as the DACUS? Oh and you guys forgot Phantasm canceling and that phantasm ledge cancel jump thing(even though it's not that useful in an actual match).

 

[brinboy789]

gatling combo (unless im mistaken isnt that the AAA combo?) isnt an AT.

 

[BBoyindo]

gatling combo (unless im mistaken isnt that the AAA combo?) isnt an AT.

I'm quite sure the gatling combo is a DACUS where both the dash attack and the up smash hit. The AAA combo is of course not an AT.

 

[da K.I.D.]

this is true^^^

also please note that the best character in the game has 3 (legal) ATs
nado cancel
glide attack cancel
shuttle loop ledge cancel

and the third is pretty much just for show.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

I'm quite sure the gatling combo is a DACUS where both the dash attack and the up smash hit. The AAA combo is of course not an AT.

The Gatling combo is the Dash Attack & Upsmash combo and Dacus is the Slidding Upsmash.

Dacus and the Gatling combo are performed in the same way but different timing.
I prefer Gatling Combo slightly better.

 

[AlternateQJD]

Im glad Kirby is high

 

[PKNintendo]

Ness did not dominate everyone but Kirby and Pikachu in 64. Lol. There are at least 4 characters better than him.

You clearly didn't play competitive 64

http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Tier_list#SSB_tier_list

 

[philbobjoe]

You clearly don't keep up to date, because that list is way outdated.

 

[brinboy789]

this is true^^^

also please note that the best character in the game has 3 (legal) ATs
nado cancel
glide attack cancel
shuttle loop ledge cancel

and the third is pretty much just for show.

...?

1. nado cancel: never heard of it. care to show me a vid? no results on youtube

2. glide attack cancel: are you serious? an AT? its not advanced at ALL. it barely even fits the criteria for a technique. its just canceling your glide with an attack.

3. shuttle loop ledge cancel: agreed.

 

[phi1ny3]

But seriously, like I said, ATs don't generally make the tier list change, as most of them are situational/non bread-and-butter usually (with a few exceptions, like Diddy shenanigans). There are a handful that do help move them up a bit when there is an otherwise stale tier move.

 

[Barge]

Unless it were a game breaking AT, most AT's only effect 1-2 characters placement, if at all.

 

[korgoth]

just curious why yoshi is so far down. most of his match ups are pretty even and he's one of the best match ups against mk. guessing its because there aren't a lot of yoshi players.