The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v2.0

[HiddenBowser]

i would say that JP will be top of E tier when bowyer goes back to her and starts resting MKs 6+ times per match

fixed

 

[da K.I.D.]

wow, that is reduculously lulzy. (edit. directed at dj, but it applys to bowyer as well.

and at the same time, completely warrented and totally accurate.

 

[AbS0lut3z3r0]

Awesome. Link moved up 2, but still in G tier =\.

 

[choknater]

that's okay, haha. he's a G

i'm satisfied that oli and kirby went up, as well as falco's placement over dedede. peach too

good stuff, i play all those characters and good to see that their potential being brought out is being shown on the tier list

 

[LumpyCPU...]

Its possible he's this game's Sheik, seen as the best for a good long while then declining over time due to other, more technically advanced characters being mastered and coming up to that level.

Its also possible he's just the best.

Only time will tell.

yeah.
it's instead of others getting closer to MK's level, MK seems to be getting better and better.
but as you said, only time will tell.

 

[Dynomite]

this tier list is weird.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

actually it feel quite accurate to me.
('cept i think yoshi's garbage. lol)

how so?

 

[Red Arremer]

Ayup. It represents the current Metagame quite well.

As I already said, it is definitely not the best tier list created yet, but it could have been worse. m i rite?

 

[Lethargied]

Cool although I don't think Falco really deserves 3rd...

 

[Justblaze647]

Cool although I don't think Falco really deserves 3rd...

I think 3rd should either be G&W or D3...

 

[LumpyCPU...]

man... i've heard a few people say 3rd is better suited for d3, but i really think falco's a better char overall.

 

[Sgt. Baker]

I'm happy Diddy went higher. Although I can't master his banana's I've faced people who have. He is definately a force to be reckoned with.

And I'm Happy D3 went down. I'm sorry but those chaingrabs just make me go

 

[Barge]

Da Kid got banned?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I'm still not in COMPLETE agreement (I'm of the opinion that ZSS and kirby are a little high, for example) and I'd love to see Zelda/Sheik make the list instead of just her two halves, but, all in all, great list. it's pretty right on.

 

[Kage Me]

I think 3rd should either be G&W or D3...

Keep in mind that Falco and Dedede are only 0,11 apart... Neglicible difference, really.

 

[Red Arremer]

@Sonic the Hedgedawg:

I think ZSS is right on and could even move higher. She's a pretty strong character.

Da Kid got banned?

Apparantly not only him but others (Boxob, for example).

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

@Sonic the Hedgedawg:

I think ZSS is right on and could even move higher. She's a pretty strong character.

maybe it's that zelda has no trouble with her and that I don't do so well with her that clouds my judgement... hell, for that reason alone I long thought DDD should be lower than he is.

 

[B!ggad]

Do any SBR members that voted have an explanation for why Sheik/Zelda isn't included?

I'm not sure if it has been answered or not.

This post is also supossed to show "support" of the idea of having a Zelda/Sheik spot, lol.

 

[ShadowLink84]

LOL. So true. I think the entire Sonic boards can be closed now, the matter is concluded (no offense to Sonic mains).

Saying no offense doesn't make it less offensive @_@

That and Sonic is cool. Old generation anyway >_>

 

[Red Arremer]

maybe it's that zelda has no trouble with her and that I don't do so well with her that clouds my judgement... hell, for that reason alone I long thought DDD should be lower than he is.

Well, as far as I remember is Zelda one of ZSS' more even matchups (with a slight advantage for Zelda), so I have no doubts you could beat a ZSS with your Zelda, especially if that ZSS player doesn't know what he does.

And I don't doubt you had trouble with playing ZSS - she's one of the characters who have among the highest learning curves in the game. She needs precision and mindgaming far more than most other characters, especially as she has no easy techniques she can rely on.

ZSS is a strong character with many powerful abilities, and the fact she's rather underestimated make her even better - she lacks only good KO abilities, other than that, she's ****.

 

[Zankoku]

Do any SBR members that voted have an explanation for why Sheik/Zelda isn't included?

If you really must know...

Are we going to actually combine Zelda and Sheik this time around? Because I really hate forcing them to be considered as separate characters that lack a down+B.

Ankoku: We didn't do it last time, I don't see a need to do it this time. You can consider changing a tool your character has, but they are two completely different characters and you never have to switch if you don't want to.

You don't have to switch, but how do you account for the fact that you can switch immediately from an unfavorable matchup (Sheik vs Ice Climbers) to a favorable one (Zelda vs Ice Climbers) as a simple "tool?" And would that place Zelda and Sheik right next to each other, since this "tool" allows them to basically have the best of both matchups?

I don't get it.

You just judge both characters on their individual merit, so no, it wouldn't place them right next to each other. If it confuses you, just forget about the down+B. In Melee you always knew switching from Zelda to Sheik would be a huge tier jump, it didn't make Zelda top tier and we always went with them being separate characters. Admittedly, switching is more viable in Brawl, but I for one can't think of them as one character.

And so we didn't put Zelda and Sheik together.

 

[AOB]

There should probably be entries for Zelda, Sheik, and Zelda+Sheik. Maybe we just didn't want to bother? I don't know. But I think the individual entries are more important than Zelda+Sheik as one entry.

 

[☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆]

the hgher tier u play the biggr ur **** is

thats not true...

Im black, which means I automatically have a big package, yet i play 7th from the bottom...

i ment ur v-jay -_-

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

There should probably be entries for Zelda, Sheik, and Zelda+Sheik. Maybe we just didn't want to bother? I don't know. But I think the individual entries are more important than Zelda+Sheik as one entry.

most of us use both zelda AND sheik. switching between the two throughout the match or staying whichever matchup is more favourable. Really, Zelda/Sheik is its own character and it's much better than either of the two alone.

 

[Justblaze647]

Really, Zelda/Sheik is its own character and it's much better than either of the two alone.

I just wanna emphasize this point.

 

[AOB]

They are different characters with different movesets. If you're only going to do one or the other (if you're going to list either Zelda and Sheik separately OR list them as one, not both), listing them separately is more informative. People who switch to get the benefits of both can think of themselves as switching between two characters (which is really what they're doing), and people who don't switch won't look at the list and say "huh?" and scratch their heads.

Keep in mind I'm not saying Zelda+Sheik shouldn't be listed.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

no. it's not more informative because the avearge person would assume that zelda/sheik would be in roughly the same placement as Zelda and Sheik are alone.

They have completely different matchups. most of their bad matchups do not overlap so a lot of bad matchups become good or neutral and a lot of neutrals become good. Also, you can use both of them at the same time to get a bigger advantage than either alone.

I know the teir list isn't based solely on matchups, but zelda/sheik's matchups are actually quite impressive

 

[LumpyCPU...]

choknater used to main sheik and he would occasionally switch to zelda very efficiently.
i heart that guy...

 

[Espy Rose]

Keep in mind I'm not saying Zelda+Sheik shouldn't be listed.

This. I feel it'd be more comfortable with everyone if there was Zelda, Shiek, then Zelda/Shiek. There's definately players that don't switch between the two, just as there are players who consistently change forms.

 

[Kamikaze*]

Nice to have a new tier list... But i disagree with many points...


[*] MetaKnight having a 15/15. He has one weakness : His light weight. Plus, projectiles can be annoying for him on flat stages (FD). A score like 14.50 would have been more accurate.

But i certainly like this new tier list as a whole

Agreed. Shouldn't have his own tier either. Same tier as snake, IMO.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Agreed. Shouldn't have his own tier either. Same tier as snake, IMO.

15/15 means every person ranked him #1 in the game.... how is he not clearly the best? are you saying you want people to misvote so he'll have a less broken looking rating?

 

[Kamikaze*]

Cool although I don't think Falco really deserves 3rd...

Have you ever played a good falco laser spammer?

 

[Justblaze647]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED_JdTAUpho

2:06 - 2:10 FTW!

Ankoku shows very effeciently the perks and advantages of switching mid-bout.

Spoiler

Even if it is just for 4 seconds

 

[B!ggad]

This is how I see it: Zelda/Sheik is one character with two viable movesets that complement each other. Why would you ONLY rate her movesets separately when combining them mid-battle changes some match ups drastically?
And I'm not even sure anymore whether placing them separately makes more sense than placing Zelda/Sheik alone, since most people stopped focusing on only one of Zelda/Sheik's moveset, because they know how advantageous it is to use them both. I don't know.
Of course, playing Zelda/Sheik in Melee would mean playing Sheik all the time, since Zelda neither brings Sheik any advantageous match ups (I believe) nor might she be needed for killing.
But it's pretty much completely different in Brawl.

I mean, while having both a Zelda and a Sheik entry might really be more informative, I don't see any arguments against an additional Zelda/Sheik spot.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I don't see whats wrong with Sheik and Zelda as separate. While you are Sheik you are this good, and while you are Zelda you are this good. That's what its saying.

Just picture this. Let's say for some reason that Yoshi could transform into Metaknight. Yoshi is still as good as he is and Meta is still as good as he is. Yoshi being able to switch to metaknight doesn't make yoshi better, it just means you can use two characters in the same match. Thats how I see it personally, but really, you are right either way you look at it because its more of a psychological question than anything. But yeah, also putting an additonal spot for using both of them to factor in the higher chance of success you'll have by using both characters can't hurt..I agree.

 

[Justblaze647]

I don't see whats wrong with Sheik and Zelda as separate. While you are Sheik you are this good, and while you are Zelda you are this good. That's what its saying.

But it doesn't reflect how well good they when used as one Character...

edit: wow! I must've typed that in a hurry... look at that broken english

@ Andy: Yeah, I kno. I wasnt arguing the point... jus sayin...

 

[AOB]

Which is why he said this. Read the whole post.

But yeah, also putting an additonal spot for using both of them to factor in the higher chance of success you'll have by using both characters can't hurt..I agree.

 

[AOB]

no. it's not more informative because the avearge person would assume that zelda/sheik would be in roughly the same placement as Zelda and Sheik are alone.

I didn't say listing them separately provides all the information you could possibly want. I said it's more informative than ONLY listing them together. Again, and I wonder if you caught this the first time, I'm not saying that Zelda+Sheik shouldn't be on the list. I'm not even sure why we didn't put that listing in.

Oops, double post.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Ice Climbers belong in the A tier list, because of their crazy grabs. DDD is in the A tier list, and yet the IC can chaingrab better than DDD can. Also their Blizzard approach has so much priority. It's the strategy where each IC short hops and uses blizzard to cover each other. IC are also doing extremely well in tournaments now even though their not a popular character, which is quite impressive. How could the SBR ignore the craziness that IC can do? It just baffles me. Everyone is scared of a good IC player no matter what character you are. 3 perfect chaingrabs is all they need to win a match.

 

[Red Arremer]

I'm not even sure why we didn't put that listing in.

I guess in the whole discussion about the placings, etc., this little part was overlooked.

Most people who play Zelda/Sheik play both for their advantages in matchups, and I know of little Zelda- and Sheik-Mains who wouldn't switch to the respective other character if it would help them.

The biggest difference to Melee is mainly that Zelda and Sheik were absolutely far apart in Melee (Sheik being Top, Zelda being Low), while in Brawl, as we can see in the example of the current tier list, both characters have about the same potential.

Of course I would choose playing the Top Tier over playing the Low Tier. But if I have 2 characters in 1 with similar potential but different matchups, the outcome of whom to use depends on my opponent.

So the comparison of having Yoshi transform to MK is wrong, it would rather have to be, let's say Game & Watch transform to Dedede or something.