The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[xDD-Master]

What the hell. The only reasonable thing of those is Zelda/Sheik, otherwise it's dumb, seriously <.<

Ah well OK, maybe you are right.

For Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard and Popo Match-Up discussion is enough. But if so, we should remove Zelda and Shiek and should only add Zelda/Shiek. But I am for adding everyone, just to make it complete and no one ever is whining about this... OK Soloclimber is new I know XD And PT is mostly agreed to keep them as one character.

But look at Reflex, he TRIES to do the most with Squrtile, meaning: get the best out of the 2 Minutes. He tries to kill his oppenant one time and then racking up damage until getting killed. Then he comes back with Ivysaur and tries to kill his oppenant. After this he switches to Charizard. He fights with Charizard until he can kill his oppenant (would be 2stock), he gets killied or if there is enough time to change and squirtle was already 2 minutes in the pokeball, then the **** begins again. So if everything goes like he wants, he used squirtle for 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 stocks.

So he used Squirtle more than the others. And that could be a reason for the PT seperated in the List, if you dont use every pokemon 33,333~%.

In other words: If you seperate Zelda and Shiek, you should also seperate the pokemons, because with stalling and so on, you could really go ~50%+ (Depends on Match Length) with one of them. Or we have zelda/shiek andy say they must be together because you can switch ingame, than I would agree to keep the pokemon trainer alone.

But just for completion I would add:
Zelda
Shiek
Zelda/Shiek
Pokemon Trainer
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Charizard
Ice Climbers
AND Popo (Solo Climber)

But not Solimar, because no one would ever use him or is FORCED to use him because he can plug new pikmins. (You cant get a new Nana... SDs dont count xD)


BTW. shiek = sheik on german... (It's a habit to write Shiek -.-)

 

[M@v]

Now can the SBR explain why Wario is 3rd? I know he's good, but I thought he would go down of all things considering his grab release issues.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Now can the SBR explain why Wario is 3rd? I know he's good, but I thought he would go down of all things considering his grab release issues.

People overrated how badly grab releases affected Wario in the past.

 

[Inui]

Now can the SBR explain why Wario is 3rd? I know he's good, but I thought he would go down of all things considering his grab release issues.

How do you grab a good Wario?

 

[Magik0722]

why would you want it to be z/s together? that just disallow people to go zelda in low tier, and diversity is always a good thing

 

[Red Arremer]

Now can the SBR explain why Wario is 3rd? I know he's good, but I thought he would go down of all things considering his grab release issues.

Good luck grabbing a good Wario. Besides... DOWN? Are you serious? Wario is easily one of the best characters in the game, he was 8th before. Why should he go down? He's definitely not on the level of R.O.B. or Kirby.

 

[highfive]

Hmm. List is good. As people continue to improve their mains metagame the list may change. It just depends on if Tactic A is popular but crappy Tactic B pwns Tactic A, then eventually Tactic A won't be that popular. If you don't like the list, wait awhile. Things change. Sonic +8 FTW.

 

[DerkTheJerk]

wtf mario went down?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Me too.

Falco should be even higher than Marth.

As in...Ice Climbers, Olimar, and Game and Watch should be above Marth.

ZSS should be above Marth, better high/top tier matchups.

 

[Jim Morrison]

i also agree with this. anther is just ONE pikachu that places. i really don't know of any others. he's done this in melee. that's just skill/drive to take his favorite character really far, not how good the character is.

What bull****.
If he can do that, it obviously shows how good the character is. If one person can beat everyone with one character and everybody knows the matchup it's obviously the characters potential that can do that, or he is leagues above anyone, which Anther is not. He plays in tourneys with people just as skilled as him but they place higher than him. Why? Because Anther pushed nearly the maximum out of his character but it isn't good enough to beat just plain better characters.

Pikachu IS overrated, but your argument made no sense.

 

[OverLade]

ZSS should be above Marth, better high/top tier matchups.

No.....just no.

 

[M@v]

ZSS should be above Marth, better high/top tier matchups.

your sounding like a sonic main

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

your sounding like a sonic main

Sonic moved up how many spots again? And, I was being provocative!

She seriously does have better top and high tier matchups than Marth does, though.

 

[M.K]

I still have the feeling that Bowser is way too high for his horrible tournament results (35th out of 36 on the Final Spring List) and bad match-ups.
Pokemon Trainer made a great stride, but even now, I believe he is too low. He should move up above Bowser and possibly to the next tier.
Lucas better than Ness? Pssh, okay, it's fine I guess, but I would've been pissed if I was still maining Ness xD.
Yus, Ganon is the worst, but Link is better than Falcon.

 

[Red Arremer]

I still have the feeling that Bowser is way too high for his horrible tournament results and bad match-ups.

Then why are Zelda and Sheik so high, either?

Educate yourself before talking crap. Thank you very much.

 

[xDD-Master]

Sonic moved up how many spots again? And, I was being provocative!

She seriously does have better top and high tier matchups than Marth does, though.

YEAH MAN I'M WITH YOU ! ZSS ftw !

She h4z t3h b00bz :D

And is a cool fighter too

\\//

 

[ShadowLink84]

Sonic moved up how many spots again? And, I was being provocative!

She seriously does have better top and high tier matchups than Marth does, though.

All matchups are to be treated with equal weight unless the tierlist is that of a metagame affected tierlist.

Sooooo, take it as you will.

 

[M.K]

Then why are Zelda and Sheik so high, either?

Educate yourself before talking crap. Thank you very much.

Zelda and Sheik are 23rd on the Final Spring Character Rankings List, I wouldn't exactly call that "bad' by any means. Just, sorta, below average.
And you realize that Sheik ranks 24th and Zelda ranks 26th on this tier list, so their postitions juxtapose correctly with their tournament results.
And I can't speak for match-ups, I don't know their match-ups to the point where I can discuss them.
I'm pretty educated, thank you.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

All matchups are to be treated with equal weight unless the tierlist is that of a metagame affected tierlist.

Sooooo, take it as you will.

Maybe, but this hasn't always been the case. Wario is 3rd partially because of convenient match-ups, for instance. That's hard to deny.

ZSS has one "bad" matchup: Falco at 35:65. The rest are either Meta Knight or non-viable mid-to-low tier characters that are 40:60 are better, and there aren't even that many (Sheik, Meta Knight and Luigi, with one or two other 45:55s).

 

[gm jack]

How is Sheik higher than Zelda? I thought everyone believed that Sheik was absolute gar.

Gar, as in gar(bage).

Because pretty much the entire Zelda board has accepted that she is a low tier character. Zelda has very few options in most situations, as she is a defensive character, and pretty good at it, but has no way to force people to approach her. Din's fire is better than it was in melee, but still can't force an approach against most people.

Sheik on the other hand is continuing to improve. Earlier, she had problems killing, but now people have refined the decayed Ftilt to Usmash tipper and other kill setups so that it isn't so much of a problem any more.

 

[Kitamerby]

I WILL ANSWER. Use the code word:

Brinstar.

Or just ask me how gay I play. U will get a DMG answer only I can provide.

Hey DMG. How do you play gay?

 

[BBQ°]

Oh wow Wario @_@

 

[Circa]

Maybe, but this hasn't always been the case. Wario is 3rd partially because of convenient match-ups, for instance. That's hard to deny.

ZSS has one "bad" matchup: Falco at 35:65. The rest are either Meta Knight or non-viable mid-to-low tier characters that are 40:60 are better, and there aren't even that many (Sheik, Meta Knight and Luigi, with one or two other 45:55s).

Actually, Wario is probably that high because he's got a lot of good things going for him and also isn't hard as hell to figure out how to use effectively. Same with Marth. ZSS can have all her good match-ups, but unless she has good players repping her and using her to her fullest (which is rare, considering that learning curve), she won't be moving up much.

Personally, I'd love to see her move up. I think she's a great character. I just know it's not going to happen unless more people learn how to use her and go to tournaments.

 

[Kitamerby]

What bull****.
If he can do that, it obviously shows how good the character is. If one person can beat everyone with one character and everybody knows the matchup it's obviously the characters potential that can do that, or he is leagues above anyone, which Anther is not. He plays in tourneys with people just as skilled as him but they place higher than him. Why? Because Anther pushed nearly the maximum out of his character but it isn't good enough to beat just plain better characters.

Pikachu IS overrated, but your argument made no sense.

iirc, Anther is pretty much the undefeated champ of MW or michigan or wherever the hell he lives. He also does pretty **** well oos as well. Pikachu's spot is completely reasonable.

The number of people that play a character at a high level has only a small bit to do with a character's ranking on a list.

It's enough to put Lucario below Kirby. :V

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Actually, Wario is probably that high because he's got a lot of good things going for him and also isn't hard as hell to figure out how to use effectively. Same with Marth. ZSS can have all her good match-ups, but unless she has good players repping her and using her to her fullest (which is rare, considering that learning curve), she won't be moving up much.

tl;dr: Get more people to play ZSS and use her well, and maybe then you might see her move up more.

Yeah we were talking about this very problem last night on the IRC.

 

[shlike]

lol @ wario

 

[VSion]

Zelda got *****...this is bull T_T

 

[ShadowLink84]

Maybe, but this hasn't always been the case. Wario is 3rd partially because of convenient match-ups, for instance. That's hard to deny.

ZSS has one "bad" matchup: Falco at 35:65. The rest are either Meta Knight or non-viable mid-to-low tier characters that are 40:60 are better, and there aren't even that many (Sheik, Meta Knight and Luigi, with one or two other 45:55s).

Correct but you touched on why she is lower than you believe she should be

A character like Wario not only has less bad matchups, but also, the spread of those bad matchups are scattered more greatly.

For ZSS, while she may have more favorable matchups in high and top tier, the fact that she has bad matchup lower in the tierlist can be an issue.

So those bad matchups with the lower tiered characters will weigh her down in spite of having favorable matchups against characters more likely to appear.
Not only because she has a bad matchup, but the concentration of where those bad matchups are located.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Correct but you touched on why she is lower than you believe she should be

A character like Wario not only has less bad matchups, but also, the spread of those bad matchups are scattered more greatly.

For ZSS, while she may have more favorable matchups in high and top tier, the fact that she has bad matchup lower in the tierlist can be an issue.

So those bad matchups with the lower tiered characters will weigh her down in spite of having favorable matchups against characters more likely to appear.
Not only because she has a bad matchup, but the concentration of where those bad matchups are located.

MK 40:60
Falco 35:65
Diddy 45:55
Sheik 40:60
Luigi 40:60
Pit 45:55

Pit and Diddy aren't bad at all, Sheik doesnt' matter, Luigi is rare and isn't that bad, I guess, MK is MK.

We are 55:45 vs Snake, even with Wario, beat Dedede pretty hard, even with marth, beat GAW hard, even with pika, even or better with Olimar (this matchup is pretty heavily disagreed upon, our best players say we win though), own ICs (70:30), own ROB, and kirby is 60:40 ZSS.

I agree that we need rep, though. You guys should play ZSS.

 

[CaliburChamp]

The reason why Falcon got higher than Ganon and Link is because C. Falcon has a better recovery, is faster both in the air and on the ground, is just as heavy as Link, and can gimp other characters better than them too with side b and d-air, and sometimes even up+B near the edge of the screen. Speed > Power, and Falcon still hits hard.
Link remains above Ganon just because he is a little faster than Ganon, has projectiles to force approaches, and has more range on his attacks. Sakurai must of not liked the Twilight Princess cast. <.<

 

[Umby]

I agree that we need rep, though. You guys should play ZSS.

I'm working on it. Don't worry about it.

 

[*JuriHan*]

this is the best tier list yet. I agree with pretty much everything on the list, although I still feel Meta knight and even Snake should have their own tier.

 

[da K.I.D.]

He should have clarified by saying, that ZSS needs GOOD rep. You playing ZSS wont do anything for anyone.
lololol

 

[BleachigoZX]

Why is Falco S-tier? He sucks!

 

[Kitamerby]

Yeah we were talking about this very problem last night on the IRC.

Since when were the women allowed their own IRC?


Get back in the kitchen.


10LucariosbeatZSS

 

[ShadowLink84]

MK 40:60
Falco 35:65
Diddy 45:55
Sheik 40:60
Luigi 40:60
Pit 45:55

Pit and Diddy aren't bad at all, Sheik doesnt' matter, Luigi is rare and isn't that bad, I guess, MK is MK.

We are 55:45 vs Snake, even with Wario, beat Dedede pretty hard, even with marth, beat GAW hard, even with pika, even or better with Olimar (this matchup is pretty heavily disagreed upon, our best players say we win though), own ICs (70:30), own ROB, and kirby is 60:40 ZSS.

Hmm then she should go up if thats the only issues she really has, even weighted. And it isnt like she does poorly in tournaments either according to the character ranking list.

I agree that we need rep, though. You guys should play ZSS.

I've actually been practicing Marth cause I need a secondary.
Maybe I'll try out ZSS

 

[solidxgeo]

Luigi should have been Higher, but +1 is better than nothing, fear the shoruyken! Its too good =D

 

[TheReflexWonder]

But look at Reflex, he TRIES to do the most with Squrtile, meaning: get the best out of the 2 Minutes. He tries to kill his oppenant one time and then racking up damage until getting killed. Then he comes back with Ivysaur and tries to kill his oppenant. After this he switches to Charizard. He fights with Charizard until he can kill his oppenant (would be 2stock), he gets killied or if there is enough time to change and squirtle was already 2 minutes in the pokeball, then the **** begins again. So if everything goes like he wants, he used squirtle for 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 stocks.

So he used Squirtle more than the others. And that could be a reason for the PT seperated in the List, if you dont use every pokemon 33,333~%.

Squirtle happens to have the best matchups in general, but that doesn't mean it's always the best and only option. Sometimes I start with Charizard or Ivysaur; the idea is to outplay someone with one of your "best" for the matchup, KO them, and switch to the worst of the three (which happens to usually be Ivysaur, which explains the lead of Squirtle as often as it is) so that you bypass that weakness. Two of the three Pokemon tend to be decent for a matchup, so that's the basic plan for every match.

Either way, you're forced to fight with at least two, so keeping them together is necessary.

Also, Pokemon Trainer should've been at the bottom of C Tier.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Hmm then she should go up if thats the only issues she really has, even weighted. And it isnt like she does poorly in tournaments either according to the character ranking list.

I think Marth is only higher than ZSS because he has better hair. We should switch to Garnier Fructis.

10LucariosbeatZSS

10thisisntaweekafterbrawlcameouts

 

[OverLade]

Why is Falco S-tier? He sucks!

One of the greatest posts I've ever seen....