The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[tocador]

People need to learn how to play as ROB.

I have the best ROB in the universe.

...and the best PT too o/!

I want vids of you R.O.B, fullfill my desire please!

 

[Zenthewanderer]

Not that it applies here, exactly, but I always find it sad when people jump on ROB and call him overrated. I understand that his metagame has slowed, but there's this strange anti-ROB movement growing on SWF. How could people be so cruel to a little NES accessory/blackmailed SSE character?

And to support what I said before-, Link is above CF, Bowser, Samus, and Ganon in tournament rankings.

Which reminds me.... If Bowser's tournament rankings are next to the very bottom, why is he where he is?

 

[choknater]

if anything, i still think rob is pretty underused for how good he is

kinda like zss

its just hard to stay consistent cuz they take dedication, and they have a different way to space compared to other chars

 

[Nefarious B]

if anything, i still think rob is pretty underused for how good he is

kinda like zss

its just hard to stay consistent cuz they take dedication, and they have a different way to space compared to other chars

Having mained both characters at some point, I can tell you that they're not even in the same league as far as ease of use.

ROB is actually a very easy character to get decent with, there are just a few matchups (and character flaws) that give him a very difficult time.

Although I definitely agree that he is underused for how good he is. He is still a good character with very high bases, just he doesn't have very far to go after those basics are learned.

 

[stingers]

ROB gets undeserved hate...I mean tbqh, most people still think he revolves around camping <.<

 

[TheReflexWonder]

ROB gets undeserved hate...I mean tbqh, most people still think he revolves around camping <.<

That's why my ROB is the best. I spend the entire match trying to grab you. <3

 

[stingers]

Lol, ROBs grab game is actually really good, I'd say around Kirby level @.@. Most ROBs don't grab enough, tbqh I don't either >.<

Also ROBs need to start going offstage for edgeguards...and to save Nair/Bair for kills.

 

[DMG]

If ROB could kill better, I would love him like only a stranger could.

Also if he wasn't freakin slow in the air, I would use him more. I can take sluggish feeling characters, I can handle trying to move in the air even with someone like Diddy, but this character... man.

 

[stingers]

Bair and Nair are his only safe on shield kill moves...save them ppl.

But ROB has trouble killing yeah. He needs to work for it way harder then other high tiers and that's the one thing stopping him from advancing. If ROB could actually get a setup into Usmash he'd be amazing >.<

Oh and yeah, he gets juggled hard.

 

[Nanaki]

I think people like to crap all over R.O.B. because people think his 'blind spot' (underneath him) is such a huge weakness that once it starts getting exploited, you'll lose.

Problem is, if you're anywhere but below him, he's in a good position. Being above R.O.B. sucks unless you're Lucario. Uair is scary as hell. Almost 30% damage from one aerial? Yikes. He has crazy range in front of him and punishes hard if you get too close (dsmash is a 4 frame nightmare).

You also hear a lot of 'R.O.B. has so much trouble killing, nothing kills but nair and it's slow' type of stuff. He's a very capable killer, though, and his gimping game is top-notch.

I also get the general feel that people perceive him as 'slow', which he's really not. People also see him as boring and campy, but he's way more effective if played with a slightly aggressive edge, imo.

Having a really horrible matchup with MK is probably the thing that turns the most people off, though. Everything about MK just completely ***** R.O.B.'s game. You have to completely avoid doing almost everything you naturally do as R.O.B. to have a chance at winning - you can't follow up, you can't chase offstage, you can't outspace everything, you just have to play ultra-conservative and pray for some luck.

I love R.O.B., but if you really want to do well in tournaments with good MK's in them (that know the matchup at all), you probably have to second Snake or MK to have much of a chance. This turned out to be a really long post, without me intending it to be. Sorry about that.

 

[stingers]

Most ROBs underrate the MK matchup. It's not unwinnable, IMO it's 60-40. HolyNightmare, the best ROB, agrees with me there. Mainly because ROB actually does outrange MK. It's just a tedious, slow matchup.

 

[Cirno]

How do you guys feel about the ZSS v ROB MU?

 

[Nestec]

Which reminds me.... If Bowser's tournament rankings are next to the very bottom, why is he where he is?

I have been wondering about that too. What the heck is keeping him above PT and Zelda, who are doing WAY better than him in the current metagame??


Samus needs to drop in the next list, below Jiggly and Link. Dunno about CF though. I say bottom Tier should go: Jigglypuff > Link > Samus > Captain Falcon > Ganondorf.

 

[xTrav8]

How do you guys feel about the ZSS v ROB MU?

Only deadly if they know the infinite and don't screw it up. Nothing major.

 

[Nestec]

^
Deadly for whom?

 

[.Marik]

Samus needs to drop in the next list, below Jiggly and Link. Dunno about CF though. I say bottom Tier should go: Jigglypuff > Link > Samus > Captain Falcon > Ganondorf.

But Samus has better Tournament placings and representation than those characters. Which is why she's currently above them.

I have been wondering about that too. What the heck is keeping him above PT and Zelda, who are doing WAY better than him in the current metagame??

As for Bowser, he's obviously better quality than Zelda, and I would've thought the same thing for Pokemon Trainer if it wasn't for Reflex ****** everybody with him.

 

[xTrav8]

^
Deadly for whom?

ROB, of course.

 

[Lawz.]

^
Deadly for whom?

ZSS has an infinite against ROB. so he means it would be deadly for ROB.

 

[gm jack]

I have been wondering about that too. What the heck is keeping him above PT and Zelda, who are doing WAY better than him in the current metagame??

Because Bowser is actually pretty good. He has excellent grab release options, a crazy OoS game and great spacing.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Only deadly if they know the infinite and don't screw it up. Nothing major.

It's not good for him even without it. ROB is one of her strongest match-ups and one of his weakest. The "blind spot" somemone mentioned earlier is the biggest problem because ZSS' strongest move is uair and ROB is big so he gets juggled like crazy. ZSS is also very fast and can navigate his projectile game. He also can't airdodge out of his up+b so when he's knocked far enough off-stage, we can really abuse that while he's recovering (note I didn't say we can easily gimp him, just that we can build a lot of damage while he can't do much about it).

ROB has a stronger CQC game that ZSS but she's quick and has strong mid-range spacing tools and can avoid it. ROB is big and not fast in the air, meaning he's very easy for us to hit once he's there.

I wouldn't say it's unwinnable, it's far from it, but it isn't good for ROB at all. If the ZSS player knows the infinite it is unwinnable though.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Didn't Snakeee beat holy in tournament a while back?

 

[ShinyMewtwo]

Poor zelda, and OMFG sonic. I think they did a good job on this one, but why is wario 3rd?!
yay TL went up! I still thinks he should be just a bit higher though.

 

[Nanaki]

The "blind spot" somemone mentioned earlier

I R somemone!!

Bowser is a great character...as long as you're not up against a D3 willing to smallstep CG you do your doom. He's got much better overall qualities than Zelda, though. He's tremendously hard to kill, he's got the (debatably) best OoS option in the game, he's got an air grab that does 18% damage, can kill lights off the top with uair at like 60%, and is moderately fast overall.

He doesn't get much rep here, really. He's dangerous, but not a real consistent tournament threat (like those below him). I think he's D tier in Japan, just below Lucas.

 

[Zenthewanderer]

I predict that, unless something major happens, Samus will be in the middle of bottom tier by the next list. Hopefully Sonic will go up another two spaces or so by then.

You know I thought Lucario and Olimar being tied at 10 was just right. Why did Lucario drop?

 

[Snail]

I predict that, unless something major happens, Samus will be in the middle of bottom tier by the next list. Hopefully Sonic will go up another two spaces or so by then.

You know I thought Lucario and Olimar being tied at 10 was just right. Why did Lucario drop?

He didn't really get any worse, but he just couldn't keep up I guess :/

Olimar is a more solid character anyway. Although I do think Lucario's better than Kirby, or at least equal (meaning they should be in the same tier).

 

[Nestec]

But Samus has better Tournament placings and representation than those characters. Which is why she's currently above them.

No, Link and Jigglypuff both do better (though not by much). If anything has changed since the latest tourney listings, then they're most likely about even if anything.
And I'd say Jigglypuff and Link both have better character potential than Samus.

---

So if Bowser was to start doing better in tourney rankings, say...up to C Rank, how high would he rise on the Tier List?

 

[phi1ny3]

Yeah I don't care about spots on the list that lucario should be in, but I feel he's certainly a world of difference from the other B tier chars, he should stay in A tier imo, we've been working to make his game much more inventive and his metagame imo is getting up there.
Bowser is really underrepped lol.

 

[Red Arremer]

Bowser has a looooooooooooot (with like 50 Os) of untapped potential. He's bad, he won't suddenly overtake characters like Luigi or Peach who're really solid, don't get me wrong. This will never happen. But he does have his potential to go up. Maybe even to the middle of C.

Thing is, he has so many problems to fight against, what with him having noone playing him, especially not top players, thus having no tournament results. Add in many many misconceptions, trouble he has with a certain fat penguin and several other stuff like high learning curve and him being a very unappealing character in general and you'll get a character noone wants to play.

 

[phi1ny3]

Bowser is really, really good and scary, obviously he'd jump more if he didn't get small-step CG by D3...
I really, really, hate upB oos and the nearly no lag after sideB or usmash. and ftilt's range is so nasty.
Then again, this is me hyping him because I have a really good bowser in my area.

Oh, and Spade, you forgot his matchup vs. the chibi sherpah/eskimos with ice hammers.

Oh yeah, and I think zamus has what it takes to go up a bit possibly, as much as I disagree with a lot of Supermodel's pseudo bias, she does have some wicked metagame tricks.

 

[Red Arremer]

Haha.

Funny enough how Bowser's biggest problem is his size. If he wouldn't be so goddarn fat, he'd be so much better.
Also, he needs a projectile, like seriously. Then he'd be High Tier.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

A lot of characters could move up if their "full potential was unlocked" For example with Ike, if someone could time it so they almost always landed the Fsmash's 6 lingering frames on the opponent who's stuck in landing lag from a jump, Ike would rise. It's easier to do with Usmash's long lasting lingering frames, but you get the idea.

Or doing the same thing with Luigi's Up B. You get the idea.

 

[Red Arremer]

That's not what I mean, lol.

Bowser is a really glitchy character. Klaw Hopping, Klaw Dropping and what else of a ton of crap he has.
The thing is, Bowser has pretty much noone who plays him, yet alone at tournaments. I've seen more Ikes and Luigis in tournaments than Bowsers, and I think the character ranking thread proves this point even further. Of course, noone would pay attention to him and try to make use of these discoveries or discover themselves.

Ike and Luigi also don't have the struggle of misconceptions or being just a generally unpopular/ugly character.

 

[Kewkky]

That's not what I mean, lol.

Bowser is a really glitchy character. Klaw Hopping, Klaw Dropping and what else of a ton of crap he has.
The thing is, Bowser has pretty much noone who plays him, yet alone at tournaments. I've seen more Ikes and Luigis in tournaments than Bowsers, and I think the character ranking thread proves this point even further. Of course, noone would pay attention to him and try to make use of these discoveries or discover themselves.

Ike and Luigi also don't have the struggle of misconceptions or being just a generally unpopular/ugly character.

I quote this, approving of what has been typed here. I feel the same way about Bowser. People just get a hold of him, play a few rounds, then think "Man, he's too slow, too hard to use, and he gets gimped so easy...". People would rather play an easier-to-learn character (or a flashier one, or at least one that has such a big strength that makes the many real weaknesses seem less horrible) than spend time on a character that takes a while to get used to.


... And they want the cool people like Snake and MK. They're the coolest of their franchises, so they're pretty overused by casuals as well as competitive (of course, in competitive gaming it's because of their obvious pro'sons ratio).

 

[talkingbeatles]

I quote this, approving of what has been typed here. I feel the same way about Bowser. People just get a hold of him, play a few rounds, then think "Man, he's too slow, too hard to use, and he gets gimped so easy...". People would rather play an easier-to-learn character (or a flashier one, or at least one that has such a big strength that makes the many real weaknesses seem less horrible) than spend time on a character that takes a while to get used to.


... And they want the cool people like Snake and MK. They're the coolest of their franchises, so they're pretty overused by casuals as well as competitive (of course, in competitive gaming it's because of their obvious pro'sons ratio).

I thought this was the case too.
Then I realized the ugliest character in the game was ranked third and the coolest was bottom.

 

[Kewkky]

I thought this was the case too.
Then I realized the ugliest character in the game was ranked third and the coolest was bottom.

Sad as it may be, I got a friend that thinks Waluigi is sexy... And we all know he's uglier than Wario.

And I think Zant is cooler than Ganon (while he's wearing his mask).

 

[Cook Kirby]

Sad as it may be, I got a friend that thinks Waluigi is sexy... And we all know he's uglier than Wario.

Oh dear God...My mind just went to a really bad place.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Sad as it may be, I got a friend that thinks Waluigi is sexy... And we all know he's uglier than Wario.

And I think Zant is cooler than Ganon (while he's wearing his mask).

Excuse me, I'll be in the corner crying softly... with brain bleach.

 

[PhantomX]

Sad as it may be, I got a friend that thinks Waluigi is sexy... And we all know he's uglier than Wario.

And I think Zant is cooler than Ganon (while he's wearing his mask).

I did NOT just hear someone call Wario ugly! He's the sexiest man alive.

 

[Commander_Beef]

I did NOT just hear someone call Wario ugly! He's the sexiest man alive.

Wario is ugly.

 

[DMG]

I bet you were viewing Wario on a wide screen TV. In person he is quite Suave, sexy, controls his surroundings like a man, and yes the bulge in his pants is real.