The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0

[Kohr]

Nice opinion on what you think the tier list should look like. But that's all it is. An opinion.

 

[tedward2000]

Show me yo moves...cause I need new ones.
(heh,jk we love you falcon)

And woo hoo to lucario.
before anyone else asks why lucario is so high, its because we're that awesome.

-t2

 

[Dark.Pch]

Nice opinion on what you think the tier list should look like. But that's all it is. An opinion.

Pretty much so. That's how many see the tier list as. Be reguardless of the list I'll just let me and my main do the talking for me.

 

[~Infinity~]

Why is lucario so high? He has major disadvantages against powerhouses. Honstly he should be low teir, or lower mid teir.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Yea, seems that way. Peach should be were luigi is and bowser should be where Peach is. Peach and luigi do better than bowser does. Sometimes I like to know just how are tiers are made. Cause to me its not legit enough. Peach id doing better than bowser in tournaments. And I think Luigi is too.

Here's a look into SBR's reasoning, or at least Samuraipanda's I would assume that if they put him this high they sort of follow this general train of thought.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5244147&highlight=bowser#post5244147

 

[Deleted member]

all things considered, we did a great job on this list. props guys.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Here's a look into SBR's reasoning, or at least Samuraipanda's I would assume that if they put him this high they sort of follow this general train of thought.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5244147&highlight=bowser#post5244147

Ok I read it and I agree with it. I don't know much about luigi so I'll let the luigi players take care of that. But here are things Peach beats bowser in

- Edgeguarding
- Spacing
- All her attacks auto cancel.
- Has a projectile
- Has many ways to approach
- Great at ranking up damage and putting the pressure on an opponent. i'll just say combing.
- Air game.
- Recovery

There may be a few that I missed but I am too tired to think of more. I am not saying bowser is bad. Bowser stepped his game up in brawl. but with all this said and what panda spoke about bowser. I don't see him higher than Peach at all. Peach has a better chance against the rest of the cast than bowser does.

 

[SlickSlicer]

+10 sympathy points.

@Topic:
Hah. I would've expected Wolf a little higher. Considering the fact I had a tournament with at least 50% of the 30 people maining Wolf. <.<
But that may only be my own thoughts. Yeah. I think that list is pretty heads on. *thumbs up*

Good thing he's getting sympathy points from somebody. He'll get no sympathy from me.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

An interesting list. Seems accurate for things atm but I must say I'm fairly dissapointed with Peach's placements. I would have hoped she was around the same area as Wolf or Pikachu because I think she's got the potential to be up there with them...just have to wait and see what the next one brings out.

Can I ask why Donkey Kong is so high up? I've never really appriciated the big monkey much in the past Smash games.

 

[Dahlaine]

Show me yo moves...cause I need new ones.
(heh,jk we love you falcon)

And woo hoo to lucario.
before anyone else asks why lucario is so high, its because we're that awesome.

-t2

Listen to the master and stop whining about lucario, he rocks, period.

 

[WolFlash]

I hope to see fox rise in the ranks in the near future, but placement wise its good. Good work SBR.

 

[Razmakazi]

An interesting list. Seems accurate for things atm but I must say I'm fairly dissapointed with Peach's placements. I would have hoped she was around the same area as Wolf or Pikachu because I think she's got the potential to be up there with them...just have to wait and see what the next one brings out.

Can I ask why Donkey Kong is so high up? I've never really appriciated the big monkey much in the past Smash games.

decent speed + ridic strength + heavyweight + 3 spikes + good recovery = DK

 

[crewster]

its odd my main and seconds are middle teir.
Anyway what happened to bottem teir has it become 4 Teirs now
I would think that toon link will move up as more people realise how good he is.
But the list is great props guys

 

[Dahlaine]

I think we shouldn't have a bottom tier btw, not at this point. Cause most low listed characters can still perform quite well against high and middle ones.
An extra one for Metaknight or maybe the entire sacred 7 might be in order, not too sure about that.

 

[SuperLink9]

Has anyone else mained a character like G&W who landed unexpectedly high and now they feel cheap? Keep in mind I'm no where near pro level, but no doubt my friends will eventually say "You only won because you were G&W".

Funnily enough I've yet to fight an annoying MKer. Nice tier list guys, I knew Yoshi couldn't be as bad as they said. It's a huge shame about Sonic though.

And Captain Falcon shall always be top tier in our hearts, despite never being top tier in any Smash games.

 

[Ignatius]

"HE'S TOO LOW!"

"Come on, step it up!"

I laughed

WTF is this?

Rabble rabble rabble.

F*ck you gimpyfish.

I laughed again.

 

[Overswarm]

why does everyone think Gimpyfish is the reason for bowser's placement?

 

[Snowstalker]

Yoshi has an even matchup vs. Meta Knight.
He has a 0% kill on Snake and Falco
He's a fast runner, and a heavyweight
Fastest air speed in the game
Highest second jump in the game.
Can chaingrab Meta Knight and Wario
To top it all off, he's adorable.


Yeah, what a crappy character.

 

[Janaye]

The fact that Snake ended up so high on the tier list makes me laugh because I swear to god as soon as I saw the range that ****er pulled on me with his neuteral A I was like: "**** me that ***** is high tier."

And now my boyfriend laughs at me every night cause his *** won out on the who gets sonic and who gets snake arguement... I clearly lost seeing as I threw Sonic out a month later.

*can never pick snake up as she will never hear the end of it if she does *

 

[SuperLink9]

Yoshi has an even matchup vs. Meta Knight.
He has a 0% kill on Snake and Falco
He's a fast runner, and a heavyweight
Fastest air speed in the game
Highest second jump in the game.
Can chaingrab Meta Knight and Wario
To top it all off, he's adorable.

Music to my ears ^^ one thing I'm happy about is that Yoshi isn't as bad as once thought. One thing that does annoy me is that he's higher than Sonikku. 3:

 

[chandy]

Dude this sucks, Ok my best Peach is prettey low on middle tier. My secondaries r worse. Sonic is Low Tier and Link and C.Falcon r dead last

 

[RazeveX]

Y'know what my favourite part about this thread is?

It's the tier list.

 

[Ryusuta]

It's nice to see that some of the criticisms earlier on in this topic have been completely ignored. Or worse, their strawmen have been attacked.

I STILL have to ask what the formula for tier placement is, because some of the tier placements are completely wrong. And just because the placements were made here at SBR doesn't make them any LESS wrong.

I reiterate: if tournament results are factored in, Luigi is about twice as far up as he should be.

If match-ups are, DeDeDe is way too far up.

If ATs and metagame are, Link being between Ganon and Falcon is absolutely ludicrous.

And if it's a combination of the three, then all three of them should be moved, because it's clear that each of their placements are directly related to these factors. If, however, the factors vary from character to character, than this tier list can't be taken seriously anyway, because it's completely inconsistent.

And don't give me any of this crap that I'm posting this because my character is doing badly. I'm a Yoshi mainer, and he actually did extraordinarily well compared to a lot of tier lists for him. It's NOT about personal preference, it's about clarifying that statistics and metrics NEED to be taken into account for an accurate tier list. As much of a crowd-pleaser as it is to do so, you can't just randomly guess where some characters might go. And unless you can show me otherwise, that's exactly what this list is doing.

 

[CT Chia]

while its cool to see the sbr make a tier list, i cant agree with all of it. many aspects of it are good, but its missing some things.

im glad to see the tier list be only 4 tiers, compared to many people's thoughts on having like 7 or so tiers

king ddd is too overrated. imo after the first 2, top tier should be
game and watch
rob
falco
ddd

ddd gets taken out by charas like mk, gw, falco, and many that are in the high, and even mid tier.

i cant agree with marth being the top of high, he has little potential as his metagame is already starting to peak. there is theoretically not much more that can be done with him.
DK and Diddy need to move up, possibly above marth and wario
lucario is overrated, thx azen -_- show me a reason besides azen that he should be that high.

ice climbers have proved to have broken grabs but are out of luck when nana is killed, and have proved to be no tourney threat. perhaps they should be moved to mid.

wolf? high? what? move him to mid especially for terrible recovery and being very predicatable.

pit should be moved up in high tier, perhaps above pika.

olimar needs to be high tier. nuff said. consider moving fox up in wolfs old place.

unfortunately there may need to be one more tier making it top high mid low bottom. the low and mid tier is too cluttered.

peach > bowser in mid

low tier should consist of ppl like
ness
lucas
yoshi
pkmn trainer
sheik
mario

none of these characters match the rest of their respective tiers. consider making peach then bowser top of low tier? not really sure about that, then ike be worst of mid

 

[NJzFinest]

omg who put pikachu that high?!

lol Anther, your squirrel is too good.

Yoshi has an even matchup vs. Meta Knight.
He has a 0% kill on Snake and Falco
He's a fast runner, and a heavyweight
Fastest air speed in the game
Highest second jump in the game.
Can chaingrab Meta Knight and Wario
To top it all off, he's adorable.


Yeah, what a crappy character.

Yoshi players do pretty well in tournaments.


...oh wait.

 

[Ryusuta]

Yoshi players do pretty well in tournaments.


...oh wait.

So does Luigi. Oh, wait.

 

[NJzFinest]

And Luigi is low Middle Tier...

Good one.

 

[_X_]

while its cool to see the sbr make a tier list, i cant agree with all of it. many aspects of it are good, but its missing some things.

im glad to see the tier list be only 4 tiers, compared to many people's thoughts on having like 7 or so tiers

king ddd is too overrated. imo after the first 2, top tier should be
game and watch
rob
falco
ddd

ddd gets taken out by charas like mk, gw, falco, and many that are in the high, and even mid tier.

i cant agree with marth being the top of high, he has little potential as his metagame is already starting to peak. there is theoretically not much more that can be done with him.
DK and Diddy need to move up, possibly above marth and wario
lucario is overrated, thx azen -_- show me a reason besides azen that he should be that high.

ice climbers have proved to have broken grabs but are out of luck when nana is killed, and have proved to be no tourney threat. perhaps they should be moved to mid.

wolf? high? what? move him to mid especially for terrible recovery and being very predicatable.

pit should be moved up in high tier, perhaps above pika.

olimar needs to be high tier. nuff said. consider moving fox up in wolfs old place.

unfortunately there may need to be one more tier making it top high mid low bottom. the low and mid tier is too cluttered.

peach > bowser in mid

low tier should consist of ppl like
ness
lucas
yoshi
pkmn trainer
sheik
mario

none of these characters match the rest of their respective tiers. consider making peach then bowser top of low tier? not really sure about that, then ike be worst of mid

Says it like it is.

I think it's cool to have a tier list at this early stage, gives a chance for people to make an effort to expand their characters Meta-game.

And lol @ so many people crying over this tier list when I've seen some of the 'DIS IZ MA TIER LIST TRED":

Top

Lynk, Shoix, Falconpwnch. etc.

GG guys.

 

[maskeXD]

Falco ain't that good and Ness ain't that bad.

Oh, BTW: Tiers R4 Queers!

 

[Boofy!]

Good thing he's getting sympathy points from somebody. He'll get no sympathy from me.

hehe i lol'd

 

[Zinc Elemental]

Marth's matchups are over-rated. He belongs where he's been placed.

He loses to Meta.
He loses to Snake.
He loses to G&W.
He beats DDD.
He loses to ROB.
He's probably about even with Falco.

If we stop right there, you can see that he has problems with ALL the top tier characters, and that alone says he doesn't belong in top tier.

He loses to Diddy.
He is about even with DK.
He is even with Pikachu at best, and might be 55-45 Pika.
Pit, Wolf, and Kirby can all give him trouble. It could be argued that all 3 are even matchups.
The rest of high tier, Marth beats.

Considering his matchups, I'd say that he should be happy to have gotten the 7th spot, and I expect that a year from now, Diddy and Pikachu will both be placed higher than Marth, and he'll be 9th or 10th.

Marth's has no significant disadvantages...His worst is MK at about 60-40, and everything else is even/advantage for Marth. where are you pulling these match-ups from?

Good thing he's getting sympathy points from somebody. He'll get no sympathy from me.

You are my hero. I think I'm going to fight for you from now on.

Yoshi has an even matchup vs. Meta Knight.
He has a 0% kill on Snake and Falco
He's a fast runner, and a heavyweight
Fastest air speed in the game
Highest second jump in the game.
Can chaingrab Meta Knight and Wario
To top it all off, he's adorable.


Yeah, what a crappy character.

He's got a wavedash too. >_<
Why do they ignore Luigi's massive fail tournament results and say "hey, we know he's good" to put him so high up? Yoshi has pooe tournament results too, but they're better than Luigi and I'd say Yoshi has a lot more potential.

 

[Mario Moonshine]

After all these years, people STILL spell "Sheik" wrong, even in official tier lists.

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

Lol @ all the Q_Qing. I helped make the list and I still don't fully agree with some of the placings, but half ofthe crap you guys are arguing about is just wrong. /gg

 

[Moldorm]

Mario's that low?

 

[Zinc Elemental]

Lol @ all the Q_Qing. I helped make the list and I still don't fully agree with some of the placings, but half ofthe crap you guys are arguing about is just wrong. /gg

I think that the most valid complaints is not that character X is definitely in the wrong place. It's that the criteria to determine who's where seems to change on a character to character basis. Everyone could potentially be everywhere they're placed, it's just that it doesn't make sense if, say Luigi's tournmanet results get ignored while Yoshi's put him down low.

It may very well be that we're very wrong about the backroom's reasoning. So, why don't you help stop everyone's QQing by explaining things? SamuraiPanda took the time to explain some of the controversial things (such as Bowser up high) when he posted his list. Can SOMEONE from the backroom doing that now?

Thank you. >_<

 

[Ravin]

I still am rather amused at Samus's placement, her only real downfall is the D3 chaingrab. She hardly lacks a killing move and has a small learning curve.

But because people want easier kills and don't want to learn. (No sorry, Snake dashing doesn't count)

Samus could easily be high tier <.<

Come on now, all air moves Auto cancel, shes one of the heavies, very good recovery, auto cancel Zair? a spike, four projectiles, and really a good counter against Snake and MK? and IMO, I love her floatiness, it helps me stay out off the edge to edgeguard better. And like peach, she has very good combo potential. Did I mention Zair ***** just about everything, Even projectiles get eaten by it.

But I guess everyone wants the kill. I guess as a friend said to me in canada "Brawl is easy money,"

Oh well, as Dark Peach said, Ill let my main do the talkin for me.

 

[psykoplympton]

i like this i think its very accurate. i think that kirby might someday rise up a little higher but for now he looks accurate.

 

[IWontGetOverTheDam]

Pretty good tier list. Some odd placements (WTF Lucas and Bowser?!) but overall pretty good.

 

[Xeze]

and Sakurai said he does not want Brawl to be used in competitions, but all three Kirby franchise characters are top and high (MK and DDD on top; Kirby on high) and their FS's suck, but it doesn't matter since in competitive play there are no items... isn't that a coincidence? oh, that sarcastic *******...

 

[Dark.Pch]

I think the tournament results should do the talking mostly. Cause thats when the characters are but too the test. Like I have been looking at Zelda lately. She has not been doing that well in tournaments. And she is above Peach, who has been doing better than her, and bowser and even luigi.

I think to make a full tier list legit one should look at this factors

- How they do in tournaments (Ankoku's thread)

- They characters cons and pros

- How can they kill

- How can they rack up damage/ how good they are at it.

- How good is thier ground and air game

- How good are they playing offensive/defensive

- How well can they pressure someone

- How good they are under pressure.

- How good is thier spacing.

- How can they approach. How many ways can they approach.

- Edgeuarding

- Match ups (every last one of them fully)

- Speed

- Recovery

- how light, heavy they are ( this can take account to how you live in your match ups. )

and most important. Have a person that knows thier main fully or at least each character fully. Like a person who is high ranked or at least around there and knows his/her main. for the characters you can't find that for, work with that character and put them to the test with the list I just made.

This to me is how, IMO the tier list just be gone about.