The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0

[SheikSmasher]

yay sheiks middle im happy lol ^_^

 

[Dark Paladin X]

Nice, Lucario is definately on the top list.

Anyways, playing Brawl isn't all about characters, it's about skill. So don't rely on tiers to judge who is the best.

Personally, I'm against tiers because people who look at tiers to see where the main stands and then realize their main is at bottom would feel bad about themselves even though skill is the main factor of playing brawl.

 

[Ultimate Dark Yoshi]

Nice, Lucario is definately on the top list.

Anyways, playing Brawl isn't all about characters, it's about skill. So don't rely on tiers to judge who is the best.

Personally, I'm against tiers because people who look at tiers to see where the main stands and then realize their main is at bottom would feel bad about themselves even though skill is the main factor of playing brawl.

He's got a point. I'm a proud Sonic, Yoshi, and Pokemon Trainer mainer. I can beat Metaknights and Snakes. But seriously, Skill>Tiers

 

[Kitamerby]

You misspelled "Captain Falcon" as "Meta Knight."

Wow.

How the hell did you pull THAT off, M3D?

 

[SlickSlicer]

ya seriously. Get my...err...Captain Falcon's name correct.

 

[-Kagato-]

As I said before to many others, Bowser ended up exactly where I expected him to be. Middle of middle.

Many characters made me raise some eyebrows, such as the placement of Mario and Toon Link, but for the most part I'm alright with this list, though there's room for further exploration.

 

[OlimarFan]

Excellent placing on each character. The game is so MK oriented, that the entire Top and High are characters that beat MK from 30 to 50% of the time. Except Pit of course, who gets ***** by him, too high. And Yoshi, who goes even, too low. Their OTHER matchups put them where they are, though.

*off topic*

Lol you really put that as your sig

 

[Janaye]

right ^^ lucario was waaaaay up there or more than i expected lol i guess imma have to scope out the lucario boards to see why lol

We've been found out! Must increase exterior defenses!

 

[Janaye]

I don't know how *******-ish this is going to come off as but I really have a hard time feeling bad for people that ***** about MK.

Now, don't take that as me saying "he's no better than any other character". Yes, he's very good and you'd be hard pressed to find a character that could get through as many characters as easily as he can, but he's not impossible to beat. He's really not. People that complain about broken characters most likely lack the reading ability to get around 50% of their opponents. I play against one of the best Snakes I've ever seen on a regular basis and I'm able to find a way around him with Lucario (he and I are evenly matched). Same goes for a fairly good MK player that I know. You know what MK and Snake have in common with every other character? Timing. There's a timing to sidestepping, dodging, and just plain getting around every character. MK can be sidestepped, dogded, jumped over, and avoided in general. Yes, he's got just about everything going for him, but that doesn't mean he's impossible to get around. If you're smart and time your moves and learn to read the other player then you can get around them no matter who they play. Doesn't mean that it won't be hard to beat MK with someone like Mario, but it is possible. Play defense if you have to, but it's possible and there is no reason for him to be banned from tournaments. If you really think he's that broken and has that big of an advantage then pick him up and ****ing use him.

Just quit complaining.

 

[DKKountry]

This looks pretty good IMHO. The only thing I'm not happy with is the fact that Falcon does not have his own personal "Ultra-Low Tier" level. I play Falcon, and I've accepted the fact that everyone considers him to be terrible, but now he gets grouped in with all the other mediocre low-tiers. He deserves his own tier bracket and I *might* stop eating until he gets one.

Falcon didn't throw his Iron Knee out the window just to fall into the same tier as everyone else who kinda suxors. He deserves better than this... or worse.

Disclaimer: JP. good list.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

oh.... btw

*cries*

why is there no Zelda/Shiek!?!

awesome character!!!!

 

[ROOOOY!]

MK's been put in top tier with 5 other characters just for the Backroom to give an illusion that he's on par with these characters and that there's no reason to ban him.
While I don't believe he should be banned (people should play him much less like a ***got though) I do believe that he deserves a tier of his own, possibly only joined by Snake. ROB in the same tier as MK is madness.
While the first half of the list looks ok, it looks awful there on in.
For one, Olimar, Bowser, Ike, and Sheik do not belong in mid tier. Wolf > Olimar? Olimar has a bit more depth then mashing the c-stick, and iirc, better tournament results.
And Sonic isn't the 5th worst character in the game, not by a long shot.
Sonic > Bowser in match-ups. (most probably)
Sonic > Bowser in general abilities (again, most probably)
Sonic > Bowser in tournaments (most definately)

So there we have the three criteria for the tier list. Of course Sonic outclassing Bowser in all three justifies Bowser being OVER 10 PLACES ABOVE HIM.
Anyone with a brain could see that this is somewhat bull****.
Tournament rankings at this time had Sonic as 10 places ABOVE Bowser.
It's not so much Sonic's position that annoys me it's the fact that there is absolutely no justification for it whatsoever, and I doubt they'll give any reason for it because it's obvious it's just pure hate for the character.
I could point out so many more discrepencies in this list and IMO a lot of it comes down to bias from the BRoom.

 

[Overswarm]

Before I begin, when I use the word "you" it's directed at the br. Also, don't take this too seriously. I'm just curious, and I'm not making any accusations that you're all horrible people or anything. lol. We just want answers. And frankly, we haven't gotten much. Also, I wrote this real quick. I just wanted to get my point across.



I don't know what to think right now. No-one except Samurai will explain ANYTHING. And even then, he never said much. To my standards, he still hasn't given sufficient evidence why bowser is so freakin high. >_>

Here's how I see it:
1.) Either you guys want the fuss about MK to cease, so you get desperate and make an early list, which has too many holes to have been made by the sbr for the sole purpose of creating a list,

2.) or for some unexplained reason, there are holes in y'all's method you guys used to come up with the list. And you don't care to explain. >_>

3.) or it's totally possible that everything I'm saying is wrong, and that the list is good enough from your standpoint as of right now, and it takes into account everything ranging from infinites to rankings and blah blah blah

It's one of those three. Right now, I think it's the third.
_________________________________

Below, I'm just pointing out the "conspiracy theory" as it was told to me, adding in some other thoughts to conjumble it all into one big theory.

You guys don't want MK banned. If you guys wanted MK banned, you'd do it already. You don't think MK is broken, so you make an early tier list to officially put down any accusations that MK is broken. I don't blame you, in fact, I'm pretty tired of the "MK should be banned stuff" myself.
Here's some points of discussion:

1.) Early arrival-why so?

2.) Just after MK uproar. How coincidental eh?

3.) Characters that have been disputed to have equal or advantageous matchups against MK are placed higher than had they not had "good" matchups with him. Though this doesn't apply to matchups against Snake, or GaW, or DDD, or Rob, etc.

In fact, from looking at the list, you guys completely disregarded everyone's matchups against the top tier characters other than MK. Olimar has the advantage on Snake and DDD. He's got it neutral against Falco and GaW. And has a disadvantage v Rob. Does he get boosted any? Now if you say he was boosted for those matchups, I'd laugh. That'd mean that bowser was at one point ahead of Olimar, excluding matchups. Olimar has better tourney results and more potential(which I think was disregarded completely as well) than brawl bowser.

Why would this even matter? Supporting the characters that may or may not have advantageous or neutral matchups against MK help explain why MK is in the same tier as 5 other characters. He has weaknesses, and therefore isn't good enough to have his own tier. This supports the claim that making the list is a ploy to get people to shut up about MK. I don't blame you, lol. At the same time, you're recognizing MK's dominance over the cast by giving characters that do "well" against him a higher placing in the tiers, and NOT giving the same benefits to the characters that do well against the other characters that are in the same tier.

4.) They're in the same tier. You guys are acknowledging that MK is on an equal plane with Snake, DDD, GaW, Falco, and Rob. The same characters that he has at least 6/4 matchups against. All of them. You guys of all people should know that MK is in a separate tier. His total points in Ankoku's rankings system are greater than the points of every character in your whole top tier combined.(excluding snake)

The theory: This list is nothing but an official statement putting down claims that MK is broken. :O
___________________________________________

Edit: One more thing OS. If you don't respond, I'm going to cry.

Edit 2: I'm just going to lol with anyone telling me to be quiet. I don't believe a lot of this as well. I'm just pointing out some things.

One problem with all your conspiracy theories:

We didn't do this overnight, and we did this with multiple people.


So.... exactly how would this even occur?



I'm gonna go ahead and give you reasoning:

If you ask why is character placed in a certain spot, here is your answer:

We believe, as a group, that this is about where that character should be at this point in the metagame. The lower you go, the less structured it is simply because those characters have less tournament play.

If you ask why a character is above/below a certain character:

That character is better/worse than the other character you mentioned as a whole.

If you disagree with me:

You are wrong.

>:[




But really guys.... relax. The Melee tier list is also created in this way. There is no conspiracy, and we don't hold back our reasoning on placements simply because we don't have them... there's just no reason to really explain them just for them to get shot down as well. Take it or leave it.

 

[Browny]

indeed it is quite funny, this list looks as if it is 95% tourney results for the majority of the cast, while a select few (Bowser, Sonic, Luigi, Zelda) seem to be completely random with no reasoning whatsoever.

 

[Kazura]

Agreed. MK should have a tier of his own.

 

[adumbrodeus]

But really guys.... relax. The Melee tier list is also created in this way. There is no conspiracy, and we don't hold back our reasoning on placements simply because we don't have them... there's just no reason to really explain them just for them to get shot down as well. Take it or leave it.

If it's good it won't get shot down...


My question still stands, you guys debated this right? What makes leaving your reasoning out there for us to debate on any worse?

If you're right, it should whistand our criticism as well.

 

[Frown]

What the heck is Fox doing up there?

 

[jber4life]

Is there any way the BR will post a link to the disscusion you had about making the tier list. Because i am sure there are alot of people who would like to read it.

 

[SheikSmasher]

Everyones view should be counted anywayz instead of a select few but thths my opinion

 

[Demenise]

-sigh- Guys, this is the first tier list. The FIRST TIER LIST. They're working off what THEY'VE seen. They, the professionals. Not us, the crowd of wanabees who will probably never be as educated as they are. This is the FIRST. In the future, the tier list will shape up to be more accurate, but for now, this is relatively accurate. Obviously, you guys haven't seen too much of other characters, have you?

 

[Red Arremer]

Why, Demenise, what do you expect? It doesn't surprise me that so many people are whining that their character has been placed lower or someone they don't like higher than they wanted to.
There always will be people complaining. I'm surprised that Godwin didn't already occur here.

Most people don't understand that tier lists are no rules but terms of reference. There can't be an 100% accurate list, and I think for a first tier list 6 months after the game's release it's very well done.

My experiences in the tourneys I hosted are a little different, but since the tendency in my tourneys goes strongly to Lucario and Wolf, that's no surprise, though. Even then, considering my personal playing experiences with the characters, the list is pretty accurate. Of course, mine wouldn't be exactly like that (I also would put Yoshi a little higher), but then again, they base their ratings off of tournament results, character skills and matchups.

As said, for a first tier list being released that early, this is good work.

 

[Demenise]

Why, Demenise, what do you expect? It doesn't surprise me that so many people are whining that their character has been placed lower or someone they don't like higher than they wanted to.
There always will be people complaining. I'm surprised that Godwin didn't already occur here.

Most people don't understand that tier lists are no rules but terms of reference. There can't be an 100% accurate list, and I think for a first tier list 6 months after the game's release it's very well done.

My experiences in the tourneys I hosted are a little different, but since the tendency in my tourneys goes strongly to Lucario and Wolf, that's no surprise, though. Even then, considering my personal playing experiences with the characters, the list is pretty accurate. Of course, mine wouldn't be exactly like that (I also would put Yoshi a little higher), but then again, they base their ratings off of tournament results, character skills and matchups.

As said, for a first tier list being released that early, this is good work.

Every single thing you said in that paragraph was true.

But seriously, although I expected whiners, I expected some good evidence, if not, ANY evidence, from most of the people. However, apparently, "why iz fox so hi he shood b lowr" counts as evidence.

 

[M@v]

What the heck is Fox doing up there?

tisk tisk tisk. If I had wifi, id gladly play you and show you why hes near high tier :D. IMO if we get more people playing a good fox game(one of the major issues with him, lack of fox mainers nowadays), Im fairly confident he could slip into the bottom of high tier before everything is said and done.

Anyway, people complain way too much about mk, because they dont know how to fight his spam moves(dsmash, whorenado, etc, etc.) One you learn how to, it isnt really that bad...mk definately isnt strong enough to warrant a ban...I do perfectly fine against him with lucario, and I own the spammy ones(Aura sphere>spammy MKs) and Im getting better against him with fox.


and this is to ROOOOY:

I do agree with sonic>bowser. However, he still is one of the crappiest characters, Im not gonna lie.
Speed is pretty much the only thing going for the poor guy. AT the very most hes top of low tier. No way is he making mid, unless a lot of sonic pros show up and start taking names somehow.


And finally...Why so you guys care about tier lists? Is it going to make you change your main? Likely not. If it does, thats pretty sad. I play to win, but I play with who I LIKE to play with, not the "best" characters. Highest character on the tier list I play frequently is DDD, because I think he is loads of fun to play, and hes a penguin with a giant hammer. nuff said.

 

[Magik0722]

Yes! Pokemon trainer made it into low tier =] Now i can use them in low tier tournaments.

 

[Jim Morrison]

**** yea, CAPTAIN FALCON IS LOWEST

 

[Sgt. Baker]

*Goes and cries in corner* Poor Ganny

 

[thechunkylover]

Why is Falcon so high up?

 

[QNZ_RAFA]

The List Still needs work, however it is the best tier list I've seen yet, with the exception of MK not having his own tier list of course. H2YL nailed that right on the head.

WHY is D3 above G&W?? simple...its called CHAIN GRABBING. G&W doesnt have one but D3 does. And please dont argue w/ me about being able to get out of it. cuz you cant. if you choose one of the many characters he can chain grab, he will do it till he runs you off the stage, and if he has you against a wall..you can kiss that stock good bye.

Loving the Top Tier list, but Bottom tier should definetly be made with the last 3 characters. They definetly stand alone as the worst. However, I think Ganon should really be the last one. He's TERRIBLE. He's worst than Link in EVERY way, except of course his comeback. but if your gonna say, O BUT COMEBACKS MEAN ALOT, then how is lucario where he is?? Not to mention, I want somebody to check the defensive points on Ganon (how tough he is)...the dude dies way to fast to be a heavy character. GANON IS THE ABSOLUTE SLOWEST CHARACTER IN THE GAME. and he's not even the strongest. yet he dies faster than IKE, LINK, BOWSER, DK, D3, WARIO, SNAKE, ROB, TOONLINK, WOLF, C. FALCON(gimping aside, just straight DI) and possibly even Marth, Mario, Lucario and Lucas and Ness. O yes...believe me on this. try it out. he's that awful.

not to mention, i think DK should be right under Marth. and wario should be under lucario. have you ever seen what tall characters can do to Wario?? try grabbing him and just let him break out of the grab, then you'll see how bad he has it. and Lucas I think should be in the Mid tier sumwhere.

Those are just sum tips although I do know you made this tier list based off of tournament results which is why I dont complain, in fact Im happy you guys did such a good job on the first official tier list, kudos to SBR.

One last note.... MK = GODLY

 

[DEV64]

imo put D3 in R.O.B.'s place and move falco,G&M,and R.O.B. up 1
(LOL at falcon being lowest tier)

 

[Deleted member]

However, I think Ganon should really be the last one. He's TERRIBLE. He's worst than Link in EVERY way, except of course his comeback. but if your gonna say, O BUT COMEBACKS MEAN ALOT, then how is lucario where he is?? Not to mention, I want somebody to check the defensive points on Ganon (how tough he is)...the dude dies way to fast to be a heavy character. GANON IS THE ABSOLUTE SLOWEST CHARACTER IN THE GAME. and he's not even the strongest. yet he dies faster than IKE, LINK, BOWSER, DK, D3, WARIO, SNAKE, ROB, TOONLINK, WOLF, C. FALCON and possibly even Marth, Mario, Lucario and Lucas and Ness. O yes...believe me on this. try it out. he's that awful.

hey rafa. ya they **** on ganon pretty bad but at least he has side B. link and cfalc literally have nothing to work with. even if ganon is useless and a 1 move char, he has 1 good move.

the bottom 3 are so bad it doesn't even really what matter they are IMO.

 

[QNZ_RAFA]

hey rafa. ya they **** on ganon pretty bad but at least he has side B. link and cfalc literally have nothing to work with. even if ganon is useless and a 1 move char, he has 1 good move.

the bottom 3 are so bad it doesn't even really what matter they are IMO.

hahah. hey umbreon, long time. yea if it wuz my tier list... while having the whole tier list go straight down one by one.. the last three I would have in a straight line like so....

LOW TIER

Lucas
Ness
Mario
Pokemon Trainer
Samus
Yoshi
Sonic
JigglyPuff
GANON, LINK, C.FALCON

hahaha. however i honestly think Link is better. his bombs are stronger, and his forward tilt is pretty beast. its his comeback that messes him up. and his Up B isnt as strong as it once was. C. Falcon can do sum serious damage though. We need to play online sum time so i can show you what I mean. but yea for the most part all 3 of them can share the bottom tier together.

 

[E123Omega]

Top
Meta Knight - Understandable
Snake - Understandable
King Dedede - Understandable
Mr. Game & Watch - Really understandable
Falco - Meh
R.O.B. - Never could get good with him.

High
Marth - Thought he would be higher
Wario - Surprising.
Lucario - He's actually pretty good
Donkey Kong - ****in awesome
Diddy - Thought he would be higher too.
Pikachu - Understandable, seeing as he's a ****ing *****.
Ice Climbers - Don't like the feel of them anymore.
Kirby - ****awesome
Pit - Sweet.
Wolf - Understandable.

Middle
Toon Link - Surprising.
Olimar - meh
Fox - Expected him to be in at least high tier.
Zelda - The computers are *****es with her, never played any decent Zelda players.
Zero Suit Samus - Understandable, really needs a quick killing move.
Bowser - What an improvement for Bowser.
Luigi - k.
Peach - k.
Ike - Decent, expected better.
Shiek - Shiek really got nerfed so understandable.

Low
Lucas - Holy ****, expected him to be in the ****ing high tier.
Ness - Expected him to be in the middle tier.
Mario - Expected him to be at least in the middle tier. Would be suitable for him, seeing as he's always the all around character in the Smash Bros. series.
Pokémon Trainer - Expected a little higher, middle tier at least.
Samus - k.
Yoshi - Expected, real noticable differences, Down Smash for example.
Sonic - k.
Jigglypuff - Whoa, that's crazy.
Ganondorf - Expected.
Link - Expected, despite the fact that I'm pretty good with him.
Captain Falcon - Expected, really bad against long range characters and projectile characters.

 

[OverLade]

I think Toon link should be in between Diddy and Pikachu. He's pretty much better than everyone below Pika.

 

[typh]

just a quick question, does anyone in the SBR have any experience with pokemon trainer as anything other than just a character they play for fun in friendlies? i'm not arguing his position on the tier list, i just don't follow the midwest/ec smash scene and don't know who mains who.

 

[King~]

Good Sh#t SBR

my only issue is:

link is leagues worse than captain falcon that is all

 

[Lord Ba'al]

just a quick question, does anyone in the SBR have any experience with pokemon trainer as anything other than just a character they play for fun in friendlies? i'm not arguing his position on the tier list, i just don't follow the midwest/ec smash scene and don't know who mains who.

While I'm not part of the SBR, I think it's safe to say that they dont share equal experience with all characters.

 

[Snowstalker]

Why is Lucas just above Ness? Just about everyone agrees that Ness is the better character.

 

[Janaye]

**** yea, CAPTAIN FALCON IS LOWEST

Lol I dunno why but that made me laugh

 

[Skyflyer]

Bowsers placing is awesome! Most of my mains and seconds did really well (though I mainly care about bowser).



You need to go jump of a cliff. All day you whine about bowser....

So I need to jump off a cliff because I'm surprised at a character's placement?
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

 

[ROOOOY!]

So I need to jump off a cliff because I'm surprised at a character's placement?
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

ye obvs m8 lolololol

But seriously, that kinda **** is annoying me. People being all like "yeah, bowser did great, well better than i expected him, the list is so good now" is pissing me off. The fact that you think your own main is higher than he should be shows that this list sucks and is in no way accurate.