The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0

[choknater]

ganondorf imo!

 

[kr3wman]

it's "mindgames" not "a mindgame"

when will people get that "mindgames" is an all-encompassing concept, not the fake out tactics themselves, that is just playing smart

It evolved into that. At first it was fake-out tactics, and this is why people that came with brawl think it is such.

 

[DDD14]

Imo Kirby and TL need to switch spots.

 

[Alphicans]

I'll agree with adumbrodeus with his statement except for one part, he said something about using mindgames. You can't really "use" mindgames, you just try to mindgame the other person. If you fail to trick your opponent, then there was no mindgame in play, only a set of moves.

 

[Zinc Elemental]

I'll agree with adumbrodeus with his statement except for one part, he said something about using mindgames. You can't really "use" mindgames, you just try to mindgame the other person. If you fail to trick your opponent, then there was no mindgame in play, only a set of moves.

Arguing linguistics much?

You agree on his definiition on mindgames...

 

[dentrag2]

Interesting... Very interesting....

Hm.... It seems i main all low tier characters other than meta knight.
Given that i have a win/lose rating of 5:1 with sonic (Most people don't think he's good. In my opinion, tiers are a matter of how easy it is to master a character.) i don't see why he's low tier. Remember kids, it's not paranoia if everyone is out to get you!

 

[RubenSSBB]

Mario?... Low? ;_;

totally agreed

 

[Tenki]

Tenki, how often do you change your main?!? [/off topic]

In reality, never. The last time I truly changed my main was mid-late April and I haven't changed since

I actually forgot I had a Marth icon until I read that lol.

Edit: This concept is rather important to me because, mindgames are central to my playstyle. I've always been a rather poor technician who depended on out-scouting and outsmarting my opponents to win matches.

WHAT DOES THE SCOUTER SAY ABOUT HIS-

Hm.... It seems i main all low tier characters other than meta knight.
Given that i have a win/lose rating of 5:1 with sonic (Most people don't think he's good. In my opinion, tiers are a matter of how easy it is to master a character.) i don't see why he's low tier. Remember kids, it's not paranoia if everyone is out to get you!

Congratulations on your first post.

Now read this:
Why Sonic Sucks- aka learn to player.

The first part [the lists of traits] is all you really need to read, since that's what has to do with this discussion.

 

[MyNameIsRyan]

I seem to main characters in each tier. I main the lowest tier list character Captain Falcon! Who is really the best...

 

[Barge]

A main a lot from the middle. (Not intended)

 

[Corigames]

i don't see why he's low tier.

Just because you beat your worthless friends with him doesn't make him good.

 

[h1roshi]

kirby *****!!!

-hiro

 

[Star Lucas]

lemme guess...MK is top because people spam tornado in tourneys and win. <<<yeah, horrible speculation...just playing arround. =p

 

[~ Gheb ~]

MK is top for lots of other reasons too you know...

 

[Justblaze647]

MK is top for lots of other reasons too you know...

like... a d-smash maybe?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Like for combining Marths range with ROBs recovery, GaWs/Warios pressure, DDDs h4x grab game, Falcos fighting speed and a priority of his own...

 

[DanGR]

I still want to know why the sbr won't acknowledge Sheik/Zelda as a character. If you're going to separate them, you might as well include the two separate characters Olimar-without-pikmin and Olimar-with-pikmin.

There's NO difference.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I can't remember ever having seen an Olimar without Pikmin in a tournament. J/K

I agree

 

[nightelf56]

I still want to know why the sbr won't acknowledge Sheik/Zelda as a character. If you're going to separate them, you might as well include the two separate characters Olimar-without-pikmin and Olimar-with-pikmin.

There's NO difference.

Shiek and Zelda have two diffrent Dojo pages, Olimar doesn't. Same with PT, Keep his as one char.

 

[FishStix]

I see no reason not to treat Shiek / Zelda as separate characters.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

They are the same character...

 

[DanGR]

Shiek and Zelda have two diffrent Dojo pages, Olimar doesn't. Same with PT, Keep his as one char.

what's your point?

Well, here's mine. Using Sheik/Zelda in tandem IN THE SAME MATCH has strategical advantages. For many matchups, they do considerably better together than alone. When you disregard those matchups completely, you're disregarding a part of the character. It's no different than taking away Olimar's pikmin and saying that's a separate character. The pikmin help Olimar rack and kill. Sheik helps Zelda rack, and Zelda helps Sheik kill. You take away either and you're left with Sheik, a character that can't kill well, and you're left with Zelda, a character that can rack well on her own. They can both kill and rack, but it isn't as efficient as using Sheik to rack and Zelda to kill in many.

Now, this isn't the only possible way to use them. It's just one of the many ways. Sometimes Sheik is well enough on her own getting a gimp kill or maybe Zelda's opponent is very susceptible to her range game or something. But that's besides the point.

Did you know that switching between Sheik/Zelda elimates DR? That's reason alone to put them together.

I'd really like a member of the sbr to answer this question. If not, I'll make a whole thread about it. Many feel the same way about it as I do.

 

[Sir Bedevere]

I'll make a whole thread about it.

I'm pretty sure that one was already made. Check the Brawl Tactical or Zelda boards, as I'm pretty sure it's there. Might be locked though. :/

I agree with you, by the way.

 

[nightelf56]

what's your point?

Well, here's mine. Using Sheik/Zelda in tandem IN THE SAME MATCH has strategical advantages. For many matchups, they do considerably better together than alone. When you disregard those matchups completely, you're disregarding a part of the character. It's no different than taking away Olimar's pikmin and saying that's a separate character. The pikmin help Olimar rack and kill. Sheik helps Zelda rack, and Zelda helps Sheik kill. You take away either and you're left with Sheik, a character that can't kill well, and you're left with Zelda, a character that can rack well on her own. They can both kill and rack, but it isn't as efficient as using Sheik to rack and Zelda to kill in many.

Now, this isn't the only possible way to use them. It's just one of the many ways. Sometimes Sheik is well enough on her own getting a gimp kill or maybe Zelda's opponent is very susceptible to her range game or something. But that's besides the point.

Did you know that switching between Sheik/Zelda elimates DR? That's reason alone to put them together.

I'd really like a member of the sbr to answer this question. If not, I'll make a whole thread about it. Many feel the same way about it as I do.

Well considering there two COMPLETELY different characters, in terms of moveset and playstyle, plus anybody who mains any of them, never say they main Zelda/Shiek. They one of the other. There movesets are completely different which makes them different characters in a way. There moves are diffrent and stuff too. Diffrent AT's.

 

[GrayPlague]

I've been messing around with PT a little bit, and I have to say that even though I'm still not "strong" with him, I can already tell that he'll go higher. It'll just take someone to learn how to use all three Poke's effectively and then I can't really imagine him being anywhere than high-mid.

 

[kr3wman]

you can main Sheik, Zelda or Zelda/Sheik. It's not like Melee where Zelda's DownB was her best move.

 

[nightelf56]

you can main Sheik, Zelda or Zelda/Sheik. It's not like Melee where Zelda's DownB was her best move.

Okay, you struck down one of my least important points. Now strike down the big point of my reply.

 

[kr3wman]

I didn't struck down any of your points. I just said that it's the player's decision to change between Sheik and Zelda, unlike PT. Even more, changing refreshes all moves of Sheik/Zelda, which is a more decisive factor than not knowing what exactly are all the match-ups for both characters.

 

[nightelf56]

I didn't struck down any of your points. I just said that it's the player's decision to change between Sheik and Zelda, unlike PT. Even more, changing refreshes all moves of Sheik/Zelda, which is a more decisive factor than not knowing what exactly are all the match-ups for both characters.

No, you did kinda strike it down. And I'm saying you proved me wrong. No madness in it, you proved me wrong on that. That's all I'm saying. I'm in no way mad.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

If we're doing tiers, we assume a character to be played at the highest level of skill. The most skilled player will use both Sheik and Zelda. Thus, they're the same character on a tier list

 

[nightelf56]

Most people main Zelda/Shiek. They main Zelda/Sheik or if they want, they can main one or the another. I have never saw anyone do both. And like I said earlier, different moves.

 

[Sir Bedevere]

Can't let you do that, NightFox

Most people don't main Zelda/Shiek. They main one or the other. I have never saw anyone do both. And like I said earlier, different moves.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=186604

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=193833

Two threads that talk about different types of Sheik/Zelda mains. You know it has to exist if people dedicate walls of texts to a "non-existent" character choice.

If that isn't proof enough, leaf through the threads and you'll find people claiming "I'm type ll" or whatever, indicating they do indeed play Shiek/Zelda.

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Now, move this to another thread before the mods ban us all.

 

[kr3wman]

Most people don't main Zelda/Shiek. They main one or the other. I have never saw anyone do both. And like I said earlier, different moves.

Some people do. Just because you're too stupid to think it can be done doesn't mean it can't be done.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Some people do. Just because you're too stupid to think it can be done doesn't mean it can't be done.

He never said it was never done he said he ahd never seen it dnoe.
Don't call him stupid stupid.

Spoiler

Sorry I was trying to be funny with the last sentence ;_;

 

[adumbrodeus]

Most people don't main Zelda/Shiek. They main one or the other. I have never saw anyone do both. And like I said earlier, different moves.

I know a number of people who do, probably the most respected Zelda player around, Ryoko, included.

I personally secondary Zelda/Sheik.

If you want, I could bring more Zelda/Sheik mains around.

Spoiler

I was maining Zelda/sheik in melee, before it was cool

 

[Barge]

Most people main Zelda/Shiek. They main Zelda/Sheik or if they want, they can main one or the another. I have never saw anyone do both. And like I said earlier, different moves.

Fixed for you.

 

[nightelf56]

Fixed for you.

Thanks. That's a better way to word it.

 

[nightelf56]

Also, I SAID I NEVER SAW IT! I, NOT YOU, ME! My god, being called stupid is plain out ridiculous. My God, I know there out there, I just never saw one.

 

[kr3wman]

Also, I SAID I NEVER SAW IT! I, NOT YOU, ME! My god, being called stupid is plain out ridiculous. My God, I know there out there, I just never saw one.

So because you never saw one it disapproves the fact that Sheik/Zelda can be a separate character on the tier list?

Still sounds stupid to me.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Also, I SAID I NEVER SAW IT! I, NOT YOU, ME! My god, being called stupid is plain out ridiculous. My God, I know there out there, I just never saw one.

...

So if you don't disagree with the existence of Zelda/Sheik mains, what was the point of that post?

If there are Zelda/Sheik players and they function differently then the characters independently in terms of optimal playstyle, then they need a separate spot. Or one spot for both. That said, 3 separate positions works better, because it's more convenient for many players.