The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0

[Agent P]

but...but....but....What are we gonna do without Falcon Punch dominating high tier??

 

[da K.I.D.]

@barge, thats true , i forgot about that...

except that ZSS has a stupid good recovery

 

[Frogsterking]

So has the SBR started working on another tier list?

 

[da K.I.D.]

yah, it should be done soon...

 

[Morrigan]

yah, it should be done soon...

how do you know that?

 

[Ryusuta]

Power of positive thinking, Dekuu.

 

[da K.I.D.]

if you lived in MI, with SP, and OS and ankoku and them, youd probably have an idea of what the sbr is up to too.

make friends in high places

 

[Morrigan]

do you ? .

 

[da K.I.D.]

i plead the fifth

 

[Onomanic]

Lets all hope for a new tier list. But yeah Wolf will probably moved down

Off topic, does anyone know where I can get a tier list from Japan? I didn't want to make a thread or anything...

 

[jiovanni007]

Why do people think Wolf is gonna move down? He's right below Kirby in the current tier list and tournament rankings. I think both of them are going to be higher in the new list. Even though D3 scares Wolf pretty bad. Maybe they'll actually put Olimar where he belongs.

About Yoshi's recovery its average. SA on the second gigantic jump. Sounds pretty legit to me though his tongue should be a tether.

 

[Dynamism?]

lol @ Wolf moving down.

um... serious note...
I know the SBR (for the most part) isn't able to do it but a tier list discussion should be considered soon. Not a "Current Metagame Tier List" which is what this tier list is, but the actual tier list of the game, AKA the final thing. It's the only way it went anywhere towards accuracy in melee after so many years of just dragging around the same old thing without actually thinking about it. lol

This isn't a post for those here or the SBR, just those people who like to think of the big idea instead of the one that is now, and small.

 

[Ryusuta]

That link in your profile makes your post hard to read, Dyna...

 

[Mmac]

About Yoshi's recovery its average. SA on the second gigantic jump.

Yoshi's recovery is great in my eyes, but people REALLY need to learn and understands how it works. Super Armour has NOTHING to do with why I think it's one of the best in the game.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Yoshi's recovery is great in my eyes, but people REALLY need to learn and understands how it works. Super Armour has NOTHING to do with why I think it's one of the best in the game.

What else does it have?

 

[mnkey]

This.

People who see their mains are considered good defend the tier list,
but those who see their flaw are criticized by people who don't understand anything about that character. Only the fact 'They suck because the tier list said so.'

Sigh.

well actually know of diddys flaws strengths and advantages i only said that because alot of noobs dont like diddy cause hes not a pick and use char. which means they would see hes high tier try him and give up on him cause they wont understand what the hell they doin as for the fact that hes high... i really dont care where he is in the tier list cause so is Lucas Ness Mario PokémonTrainer Samus Yoshi Sonic Jigglypuff Ganondorf Link CaptainFalcon and i know of at least one or two people that main these chars. and theyre good so the tier list relly has no point at how you use the char. its just a list. i dont care for it at all.

 

[Judge Judy]

Yoshi's recovery is great in my eyes, but people REALLY need to learn and understands how it works. Super Armour has NOTHING to do with why I think it's one of the best in the game.

Best horizontal air speed in the game, Egg Toss stalling, and a huge DJ with heavy armor during its startup; tough recovery to use, but great if you can master it. The only thing I don't like about Yoshi's recovery is that he's not very good at recovering low.

 

[Mmac]

What else does it have?

Best horizontal air speed in the game, Egg Lay stalling, and a huge DJ with heavy armor during its startup; tough recovery to use, but great if you can master it. The only thing I don't like about Yoshi's recovery is that he's not very good at recovering low.

Judge pretty much listed everything EXCEPT the one thing that makes his recovery great (Also I think he meant Egg Toss stalling). Nobody seems to ever understand Double Jump Airdodging. Nobody seems to understand that he can do this. Nobody seems to understand that in the hands of someone who knows how to, he is practically ungimpable because of it.

That is why it is so great because, unless he is in a terrible position to recover, he can never be directly edgeguard by anyone unless they have a flexable lagless projectile used at the right time and correct positioning, or can keep up with his natural airspeed AND vertical momentum of the jump.


I REALLY need to make a recovery guide for Yoshi

 

[Olimar369]

I wouldn't mind seeing how the tiers look today. Some decent changes would made. I would like to see how much higher Oli would go. He's just soo good on the ground...

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Judge pretty much listed everything EXCEPT the one thing that makes his recovery great (Also I think he meant Egg Toss stalling). Nobody seems to ever understand Double Jump Airdodging. Nobody seems to understand that he can do this. Nobody seems to understand that in the hands of someone who knows how to, he is practically ungimpable because of it.

That is why it is so great because, unless he is in a terrible position to recover, he can never be directly edgeguard by anyone unless they have a flexable lagless projectile used at the right time and correct positioning, or can keep up with his natural airspeed AND vertical momentum of the jump.


I REALLY need to make a recovery guide for Yoshi

Ah. Sonic's do a similar thing with Spring and dairs. Like how the airdodge last long enough no one's going to hit you since the airdodge is carried through by your momentum.

Or do you mean something I'm not getting because I KNEW about that.

 

[Mmac]

Ah. Sonic's do a similar thing with Spring and dairs. Like how the airdodge last long enough no one's going to hit you since the airdodge is carried through by your momentum.

Yeah, pretty much like that (Though I though he had natural invincibility till the top though). Didn't the guy who figured that out got the idea from Yoshi's DJAD?

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Sonic has invincibility till about full hop height. Neat for avoiding spikes.

Ummmm..... I just do it. I didn't know it was some sort of tricky tech. Seems like common sense.

 

[Ryusuta]

Yoshi's recovery is amazing. The thing to keep in mind about his recovery is that Yoshi can literally recovery at any time and from any angle he'd like in most circumstances. That, and because of DJAD and his incredible air speed, you pretty much WILL NOT gimp Yoshi.

The only realistic possibility is if you catch the Yoshi player fighting back as he comes in (which does occasionally happen). In those situations, you've got a shot catching him. But Mmac's right - if Yoshi is recovering carefully and defensively, you're not going to stop him from getting back.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Yeah. I played some Yoshi's on AiB and it was surprisingly hard to gimp them. My only option to "gimp" them was to wait for their second jump to run out and kick them off the stage like you would with Pit. However that's NOT exactly typical. Dair eats people alive and DownB alone can at least make sure you get your jump back. Although you're Yoshi's and typing this seems increasingly stupid and unnecessary since you know full well how his recovery works. I can stop right now and erase it and no one will see. Aw screw it.

 

[Mmac]

I just do it. I didn't know it was some sort of tricky tech. Seems like common sense.

I really would want to believe that it's common sense. I really, really would....

 

[Kinzer]

Marth had more than ever since Ken started playing in Melee.

This was a couple of pages back, but I saw nobody outright respond to it so...

Melee Marth =/= MK, for one thing, compared to the other dominant characters back in Melee, Marth was much easier to pick up out of all of them, and yet still just as good. Second, Melee had less characters, and even less tourney viable. We now have Brawl, where clones are but a thing of the past, and it's debatable who is viable, but no doubt you can play more characters in Brawl and still be able to do fairly well.

Sure, if you bring it down a notch, NOW MK would have the same tourney results as Marth did back when Melee was still around.

That is why MK doesn't have anymore points in tournament results than he does now.

Someone convince me otherwise, because I have had it with people comparing two entirely different games.

I'll say it again, MK =/= Melee Marth.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I really would want to believe that it's common sense. I really, really would....

But... but.. inertia and velocity and... how ISN'T it?

 

[choknater]

i did not know sonic had invincibility after using spring LOL!

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Yeah. Till full jump height.... Usmash has it EXCEPT against projectiles while he's in the air and the initial hop on SideB.

 

[Ryusuta]

About the only problem with Sonic's Up B is getting grabbed next to the ledge after using it. Of course, this is generally very rare, so it's hardly worth mentioning.

 

[Lord Viper]

About the only problem with Sonic's Up B is getting grabbed next to the ledge after using it. Of course, this is generally very rare, so it's hardly worth mentioning.

Unless Kirby or King Dedede swallow you, since it's like a grab, when you struggle off of it, you'll die because you have no jumps, same with Snake unless your great with his grenades. I'm not sure if Diddy Kong can Monkey Flip grab hold Sonic and cancel his jumps..... I haven't tried that yet.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Unless Kirby or King Dedede swallow you, since it's like a grab, when you struggle off of it, you'll die because you have no jumps, same with Snake unless your great with his grenades. I'm not sure if Diddy Kong can Monkey Flip grab hold Sonic and cancel his jumps..... I haven't tried that yet.

Doesn't he do an attack to detach? That'd give them their 3rd jumps back.

And most Sonic's WON'T get grabbed due to that transitive dodging property Mmac mentioned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW5gP1dN-s4

Video relevant.

 

[Ryusuta]

You mean Snake's C4, Viper.

 

[Lord Viper]

Doesn't he do an attack to detach? That'd give them their 3rd jumps back.

And most Sonic's WON'T get grabbed due to that transitive dodging property Mmac mentioned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW5gP1dN-s4

Video relevant.

Alright, I haven't fought against a Sonic main in a while, so my news is old, lol.

That video was... wow. I have to test that sometime.

You mean Snake's C4, Viper.

Um... that to. I guess it's harder to use his grenades to come back. ^_^;

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Oh yeah. Stealth made a vid describing it better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tF6EWbaorU&feature=related

I love how the two characters I play the most can be grab gimped. I should play GaW too. XD

 

[infomon]

Airdodging in Sonic's up-B isn't as useful as it is for Yoshi.
From up-B, it's true Sonic gets invincy frames for a while, then there's some lag time, then he's able to attack/airdodge but it's approaching the peak of the jump, where it's slower and also where you'd need to be free if you want to grab the ledge.

If Sonic jumps onto a grounded spring, then he doesn't have the invincy frames, but can airdodge whenever it's most convenient, so it's more Yoshi-ish.

Yeah. Till full jump height.... Usmash has it EXCEPT against projectiles while he's in the air and the initial hop on SideB.

Usmash has legit invincibility frames, it doesn't matter what type of attack is being used.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=1r9HGU39qXo
the problem with Fox and Falco's lasers is that they're too long; their hitbox outlasts the invincy frames, so I have to catch them after the tip lol.

 

[Airgemini]

Couldn't Sonic get Paralyzed by ZSS's Dsmash to a possible stage spike?

 

[Ryusuta]

Her down B?

 

[Commander_Beef]

This is unbelieved.

 

[Umby]

Couldn't Sonic get Paralyzed by ZSS's Down B to a possible stage spike?

If you mean down smash, yes, if the attack hits him after his Up B invincibility frames are gone, but that's unlikely to happen unless you get him to recover from way below the ledge.