da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
going down
ike
wolf
fox
bowser
ROB
Wario
lucas
maybe sheik
ike
wolf
fox
bowser
ROB
Wario
lucas
maybe sheik
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The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0
- Thread starter M3D
- Start date
- Status
Rawr_
Smash Apprentice
doubtful
grab release on MK, can gimp others at absurdly low %s, needles outcamp snake and break mk's specials
Browny
Smash Hater
every character in the game can gimp at absurdly low %'s, whats important is whether they can do it to anyone NOT named ike, link, ivysaur or olimar regularly
JPOBS
Smash Hero
i think game&watch will move down.
his metagame isnt progressing and people will start to figure out ways of playing him that his "top tierness" wont be able to simply overcome.
his metagame isnt progressing and people will start to figure out ways of playing him that his "top tierness" wont be able to simply overcome.
Uhh no, no way is she a low tier character, she has advantages on Falco, Wolf, , Fox, and Wario. Plus she goes even with ZSS, Toon Link, Pit, Olimar, DDD, and Bowser. SHe also has very manageable matchups with Snake, MK, and Marth..with her only horrible matchups vs. Lucario and G&W.
I know this prevents a grab due to Oli not having regular grab armor so are you being sarcastic or do you really feel that Sheik beats him? Olimar still has other options to stop the nair>jab approach.Nair->jab > Olimar.
She beats him.
Deathcarter
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2007
- Messages
- 1,358
Characters that are going down:
R.O.B.-It does not dominate most of the other cast to the extent that the other Top tiers do. R.O.B also has NO way to make up for his weakness (the blind spot). A lot of characters can exploit that, and that is one of the major reasons why R.O.B. does not anally **** the majority of the roster. Diddy and Wario on the other hand are major contenders for top tier.
Lucario-(not enough experience to comment on him)
Donkey Kong-No matter how good he can be, the grab infinite is devastating to him and the tournament scene will continue to get worse for DK as DDD slowly rises to prominace alongside Meta and Snake.
Ice Climbers-ANYONE who can space against them gives them trouble. I mean for pete's sake, SAMUS goes even with them (okay that does not matter too much, but it is pretty sad though). Unlike DDD, it is entirely reasonable to say never get grabbed by the Ice Climbers. I expect Wolf to pass them up in the next tier list. Everyone posting in this thread (except Gheb) underestimates him.
Pit-Pit does have potential, but said potential is not manifesting itself in tournament results. At this stage in the game, we pretty much know which grade each characters have (how they do in relation to each other is irrelevent). Pit has been progressively getting worse simply because the other characters are getting better. And even analyzing his moveset, he has no brick walls to use against his opponents. Brick walls are what will put a character high on the tier list.
Fox-He has been getting better, but Peach, Luigi, and ZSS will most likely move above the vulpine.
Bowser-Same situation as Fox except his Metagame has been moving at a snail's pace in addition to other characters passing him up. Even Mario, Sonic, Ike, and Ness have been making great strides to their metagame compared to him so he has no excuse.
Ike-Honestly, Ike is in the correct spot as much as I hate to admit it (I see no potential in him, but I am apparently wrong). But even though he is making progress, I can see Sonic, Mario, Ness, AND Shiek passing him up due to them showing the most improvement of any character in the game not named Diddy and Olimar.
Lucas-When will we learn, sucky little boys and girls should not get special treatment; If they suck, they should be behind the rest of the class especially since Lucas is mentally competent.
Samus and Pokemon Trainer-Sonic and Yoshi are going to pass them up. Simple as that.
Ganondorf(?)-Link has been improving, but so has Ganondorf. I don't see Ganondorf moving up, but Link is just as likely to stay where he is considering it is OBSCENLY EASY to gimp him.
R.O.B.-It does not dominate most of the other cast to the extent that the other Top tiers do. R.O.B also has NO way to make up for his weakness (the blind spot). A lot of characters can exploit that, and that is one of the major reasons why R.O.B. does not anally **** the majority of the roster. Diddy and Wario on the other hand are major contenders for top tier.
Lucario-(not enough experience to comment on him)
Donkey Kong-No matter how good he can be, the grab infinite is devastating to him and the tournament scene will continue to get worse for DK as DDD slowly rises to prominace alongside Meta and Snake.
Ice Climbers-ANYONE who can space against them gives them trouble. I mean for pete's sake, SAMUS goes even with them (okay that does not matter too much, but it is pretty sad though). Unlike DDD, it is entirely reasonable to say never get grabbed by the Ice Climbers. I expect Wolf to pass them up in the next tier list. Everyone posting in this thread (except Gheb) underestimates him.
Pit-Pit does have potential, but said potential is not manifesting itself in tournament results. At this stage in the game, we pretty much know which grade each characters have (how they do in relation to each other is irrelevent). Pit has been progressively getting worse simply because the other characters are getting better. And even analyzing his moveset, he has no brick walls to use against his opponents. Brick walls are what will put a character high on the tier list.
Fox-He has been getting better, but Peach, Luigi, and ZSS will most likely move above the vulpine.
Bowser-Same situation as Fox except his Metagame has been moving at a snail's pace in addition to other characters passing him up. Even Mario, Sonic, Ike, and Ness have been making great strides to their metagame compared to him so he has no excuse.
Ike-Honestly, Ike is in the correct spot as much as I hate to admit it (I see no potential in him, but I am apparently wrong). But even though he is making progress, I can see Sonic, Mario, Ness, AND Shiek passing him up due to them showing the most improvement of any character in the game not named Diddy and Olimar.
Lucas-When will we learn, sucky little boys and girls should not get special treatment; If they suck, they should be behind the rest of the class especially since Lucas is mentally competent.
Samus and Pokemon Trainer-Sonic and Yoshi are going to pass them up. Simple as that.
Ganondorf(?)-Link has been improving, but so has Ganondorf. I don't see Ganondorf moving up, but Link is just as likely to stay where he is considering it is OBSCENLY EASY to gimp him.
LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
a metaknight won WCSL. so i think metaknight should move up on the tier list. LOL
Face124
Smash Ace
I think that Falcon should be above ganondorf. Hes placing much better at tournaments and I cba making a big post so I'll just wait for flames then reply
LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
i saw a couple good falcons today and yesterday, but no good ganons.I think that Falcon should be above ganondorf. Hes placing much better at tournaments and I cba making a big post so I'll just wait for flames then reply
yet i still don't support this at all. LOL
falcon's just so sexy!
hizzlum
Smash Journeyman
Some notable beliefs that some characters will drop is wario, ROB and G&W, their tourney results now seems to not support their position that they werein the latest tier list. Also DK may fall just a little bit as less people use him but CBK and BUM hold well in their respective coasts(lol i 2 stocked cbk with DDD and didnt even use the infinite, he was soo unlucky in the match, lmao)
Otherwise, people like the IC's have been showing up at reigionals and perform well. Diddy is will rise as it seems he and snake have even match-ups against MK and it has shown in reults, esepcially on the west coast with nanerz.
Face124
Smash Ace
I also think ganondorf should move down to bottom, look at how much better Falcons are placing at tourneys. I've though R.O.B. was fine where he stands, but I agree with wario, and I think Diddy should move up aswell.
hizzlum
Smash Journeyman
ROB tourney placement has dropped siginifcantly compared to characters that were close with him in the 1st brawl tier list(falco and G&W) and many knowledgeable players see that ROB's placemnt has fallen down to a rate that is not qual to that of another top tier character.
On your issue about captain falcon and ganon, i have no bias on this topic but honestly both these characters are considered not viable for tournament play the only exception is if you are amazing like chu was with the Ic's in melee, but both a simply inferior chracaters compared to the standard put up by MK(primarily), snake and DDD
Ryusuta
Smash Master
Jigglypuff should definitely go down. Even the people that LIKE her don't represent her anymore.
LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
unless it's against dedede. LOLOL
Jiggs is underrated, really.
I think G&W will go down. He ***** on low levels beause of his "broken" turtle, despite the fact that many characters can either beat it with a move, shield + punsih or SDI + punish. His KO abilities is hugely overrated. None of his reliable KO moves hits before frame 10, which makes is almost impossible to finish hardcore campers (and who doesn't camp vs G&W?) and gimps = overrated as hell.
He shouldn't be among the top5 really. Top 5 atm are Snake, MK, Falco, Diddy and D3...
Honestly, I have no clue what makes people think Wolf should go down. He wins more tourney than G&W does and we just found a way to even out the Falco match-up which was the worst up tothat day. The chainspike is now techable making this match-up no longer bad. And the tourney results are better than Peach, who everybody thinks will move up. It's been also the 4th time or so that Wolf beats MK in a tournament...
I think G&W will go down. He ***** on low levels beause of his "broken" turtle, despite the fact that many characters can either beat it with a move, shield + punsih or SDI + punish. His KO abilities is hugely overrated. None of his reliable KO moves hits before frame 10, which makes is almost impossible to finish hardcore campers (and who doesn't camp vs G&W?) and gimps = overrated as hell.
He shouldn't be among the top5 really. Top 5 atm are Snake, MK, Falco, Diddy and D3...
Honestly, I have no clue what makes people think Wolf should go down. He wins more tourney than G&W does and we just found a way to even out the Falco match-up which was the worst up tothat day. The chainspike is now techable making this match-up no longer bad. And the tourney results are better than Peach, who everybody thinks will move up. It's been also the 4th time or so that Wolf beats MK in a tournament...
Face124
Smash Ace
O.o
Link below Ganondorf. No way. No.
Link below Ganondorf. No way. No.
Ryusuta
Smash Master
Yeah, yeah. So is everyone else in the low tier.
I wouldn't be surprised if not a single low tier character makes it to mid tier on the next tier list.
They all aren't quite on the level of mid tiers (except for maybe Mario), we just need a bottom tier, badly, cause Mario, Ness and maybe even Sonic and Yoshi are not at all as bad as Falcon, Ganon, Link and Jiggs (?).
They all aren't quite on the level of mid tiers (except for maybe Mario), we just need a bottom tier, badly, cause Mario, Ness and maybe even Sonic and Yoshi are not at all as bad as Falcon, Ganon, Link and Jiggs (?).
A1lion835
Smash Champion
I see ganon<falcon. I don't have much experience, but everyone knows ganon=slower version of falcon. When I said this before, I heard someone say you can do the ganon superjump in mid-air or something. I'm pretty sure you can't though...
For the post above, I think at least 2 or 3 bottom tiers will make it to mid, but that's just my opinion.
And jigs is underrated.
For the post above, I think at least 2 or 3 bottom tiers will make it to mid, but that's just my opinion.
And jigs is underrated.
Not at all. Yoshi, Sonic and Lucas are very overrated.
Ryusuta
Smash Master
Ah, yes. Of course they are. Any other valuable trinkets to contribute to this conversation?
Umby
Smash Master
Everyone is overrated.
This game is overrated.
This game is overrated.
Actually I've found the best argument for Brawl > Melee
Captain Falcon has improved graphics, so his appearance is more ripped, his nipples look harder, his manly bulge is more prominent, his Falcon Punch has more fire, Show Me Ya Moves is animated better. Now tell me that's not a better argument than what other Brawl fans have given you, do that for me and I'll post a picture of me in a Playboy Bunny outfit on Las Pictoras.
Ryusuta
Smash Master
There's TOO much animation in his "Show me your moves!"
The Epic Falcon 2 match wasn't nearly as awesome as the first Epic Falcon match.
The Epic Falcon 2 match wasn't nearly as awesome as the first Epic Falcon match.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Late but just defending my point before moving on: as far as I know, unless matters have changed, all of the boards I listed agreed within a .5 difference. That, and you can't get much worse then a 2.5-7.5 D (talking about Falco here)Using a certain character boards idea of the match-up is definitely not a smart idea. I'm not saying the Ike boards are biased but a majority of them are (with some actually discussing it fairly).
I'm pretty sure if you went to the fox, zelda, falco ect. boards the match-ups would be far worse for ike.
-Bowser King
Anyways, back on topic: I also believe that Captain Falcon will rise above Ganondorf, but barely. C.Falcon has the tournament results, but the only possible thing that can keep this from happening is that combo the Ganon boards found. However, it hasn't changed his tournament results.
I also believe ROB and Wario will move down. More and more characters are finding that they have grab releases against Wario (Ike has 6 for crying out loud) which is starting to cripple him a bit, and ROB's tournament results just aren't stacking up to where he is in this current tier list. Both of them won't move down much, but a spot or two.
I can also see Fox moving down fairly easily.
KillerSOS
Smash Champion
There is only one true bowser king!
Turbo Ether
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2006
- Messages
- 3,601
This is pretty accurate.
I agree for the most part. There's no reason for Wolf to drop out of high tier and he's arguably better or equal to a lot of the high tier characters currently placed above him.
DTP
L o s t - in reality~
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2008
- Messages
- 8,125
I read the entire thing, and I think I agree with everything =D
"He has been getting better, but Peach, Luigi, and ZSS will most likely move above the vulpine."
Especially this part =D
I main Peach and Luigi
LOL
choknater
Smash Obsessed
ic's definitely has so many limits
Ryusuta
Smash Master
You did what with who and why?
In Smash 64 and in Melee you can actually combo to the Falcon Punch.
Where can I get a Las pictoras?
hizzlum
Smash Journeyman
SDI'ing does not happened much in tourney play, I have done it multiple times in some matches, but i have played opponents that simply were trying to SDI, but were not able to get out, so you may have to consider that SDI is a very difficult thing to accompliish if you are not a top level pro(i am not a top pro, I just know how to actually play this game cuz I learned from distinguished and knowledgebale melee/brawl players)regardless of being in tourney play.
Also name one character whoses 3 smashes can kill a heavy character like DDD or snake at 120% while the DDD and snake display great DI, attack momentum reduction, and fastfall to deteriorate the intial smash. G&W can kill well and certainly better than say falco, diddy, rob, marth and you could argue better than MK(whose two best kill moves are quicker, but G&W has three more powerful options but just a tad slower). G&W pressure game is only second to MK, the nair,bair,dair and up b all can work together to create tremendous % rack up, regardless I agree that G&W will drop in his position on the first brawl tier list mainly because of lack of tourney placement that characters like falco who were close to him on the original tier have surpassed him.
Although diddy s considered close match-up with MK, it can be recognized that he lack kill power, which means heavys can live up to 200%(i played QTP, one of the west coast best diddys, ilived till 210% every single stock cuz the dsmash, fsmash, fair just cant kill like say G&W), regardless diddy has shown improvemnent, but he lacks the tourney placemnet of a top tier character, but is very close to that standard.
About your wolf topic, the reason why people critize wolfis the fact that his results and match-ups are simply equivalent to that of a mid/high tier character. You said wolf now has a more equal match-up with falco, however did you know that DDD has an infinite on the edge against wolf? And infinites are not banned completly like wobbling was generally banned in melee, so if wolf has a bad match-up against falco(because falco simply can outcamp and rack more % than wolf can, regardless of the chain grab dair kill which you say can be teched(which is a lot to ask smashers to do, as teching is not a very simple reaction to the frames he can tech), it still racks up 40+ % at the start of a stock something wolf cant do so easily)). So if you knew about the infinite DDD has on wolf, you should have talked about it, because that makes an easy win for DDD, and DDD's appearance is still high in tounreys,
XBart-ManX
Smash Cadet
i think you underrate Ganondorf ha has many good potential against many characters.
Also Ike has too many potentials as well.
Mario on the other hand..well he has cape but nothing else really oh and his juggling.
Also Ike has too many potentials as well.
Mario on the other hand..well he has cape but nothing else really oh and his juggling.
ObeseGirlOnIce
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2008
- Messages
- 5
Hehee! I totally see Peach moving up! I mean, even though she's a girl, doesn't mean she's weak!
Though she lacks some kill moves, she can easily rack up damage and combos and save them for later! And the kill moves she does have are totally powerful! Her fair can easily take out a heavy weight like bowser around 110%! Gee, I guess even big turtles can be taken down!. I'm so silly.
Her recovery isn't bad either, contrary to popular belief. Though her verticle recovery with Up B isn't all that impressive, she has amazing horizontal recovery with peach bomber, and most of brawl is horizontal battle, isn't it?. Even if she is hit below stage for some CRAZY reason, she can easily float to figure out the best time and place to use her Up B! This gives her an advantage over many characters who are great at ledge guarding and edge hogging!
Her matchups aren't too shabby either. Most of her matchups are either neutral or have a slight advantage against. Such as diddy (darn those nanners! Luckily thats what float is for! Heehee). Ice climbers (popo isn't that great without nana, huh? ^_^) and Olimar (float saves the day again! I guess we won't be seeing your pikmin will we?). The worst matchups we have are mostly against top tier, darned metaknight and gnw, oh well! Peach has great matchups and a wonderful projectile. I see her rising to the top of middle tier!
^_^
Though she lacks some kill moves, she can easily rack up damage and combos and save them for later! And the kill moves she does have are totally powerful! Her fair can easily take out a heavy weight like bowser around 110%! Gee, I guess even big turtles can be taken down!
. I'm so silly.Her recovery isn't bad either, contrary to popular belief. Though her verticle recovery with Up B isn't all that impressive, she has amazing horizontal recovery with peach bomber, and most of brawl is horizontal battle, isn't it?
. Even if she is hit below stage for some CRAZY reason, she can easily float to figure out the best time and place to use her Up B! This gives her an advantage over many characters who are great at ledge guarding and edge hogging!Her matchups aren't too shabby either. Most of her matchups are either neutral or have a slight advantage against. Such as diddy (darn those nanners! Luckily thats what float is for! Heehee). Ice climbers (popo isn't that great without nana, huh? ^_^) and Olimar (float saves the day again! I guess we won't be seeing your pikmin will we?). The worst matchups we have are mostly against top tier, darned metaknight and gnw
, oh well! Peach has great matchups and a wonderful projectile. I see her rising to the top of middle tier! ^_^
The point was that was my argument for Brawl > Melee is easily the best thought out and most logical, arguing with Falcon's manliness is a cardinal sin.
A combo to the falcon punch is manlier than lousy graphics that Falcon can be manly without.
YagamiLight
Smash Champion
If Captain Falcon powershields the first hit of Ike's Down Smash and Ike doesn't use IASA frames, Captain Falcon can get a free Falcon Punch in.
Problem is, Ike's Down Smash sucks and nobody uses it, but I hope this lightens up your spirits.
- Status