The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0

[Sudsy86_]

( To Twilight Prince)

Many of his moves lag, he has no off-edge game besides the predictable dair, he's obviously slow, and he has absolutely no approaching options that won't be UBERLY predictable or avoidable in the near future.

Allright. I was wrong here. I simply wasn't considering how useful his Uair could be with a jump left while near the edge. Other than that, I don't see anything absurdly not-right. Also, up-b is obviously his main recovery attack, not uair: there isn't that much vertical lift compared to his up-B.

He doesn't really have any combo potential that other characters DON'T HAVE, so you're looking at a character who relies solely on excessive defense in order to get a single hit on ( can't successfully land an approach attack), and most of your hits will end after right there, considering his speed and move lag.

Anything wrong here as well?

I play Ganon very often now. I'm well-aware of his Uair. It just slipped my mind in the case of going upwards towards the edge when off it.

 

[Ryusuta]

He doesn't really have any combo potential that other characters DON'T HAVE,

I don't think many other characters can get 40% out of their auto-canceled down air to up smash.

 

[Ravin]

Ganan has one of the best tech chases in the game. Side B =Lol

 

[Sudsy86_]

I don't think many other characters can get 40% out of their auto-canceled down air to up smash.

I just tested it out and it appears you're right. Another point I missed.

My bad.

 

[gantrain05]

I don't think many other characters can get 40% out of their auto-canceled down air to up smash.

peach =P but ganon is beast too, also, i like to Side B then use an autocancelled Dair on thier heads as they get up, thats a fun one too lol.

 

[-Linko-]

I don't think many other characters can get 40% out of their auto-canceled down air to up smash.

Hoping that your enemy doesn't DI or tech... Really unlikely at high level gameplay.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Hoping that your enemy doesn't DI or tech... Really unlikely at high level gameplay.

Can't be teched (it's against a grounded opponent), and it's guaranteed against a number of characters regardless of DI.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

wow. that's whack lol

 

[gamegeek27]

I see this as pretty well made. I do think that the next tier list might switch a lot of characters seeing as how the metagame is still progressing (except MK >_>).

And what happens if MK gets banned from all those tourneys?
Lucas should go to middle because he has chain-grab and a better PK Fire than Ness. Also, speaking of MK, it's possible that Yoshi, because he has the best matchups with MK, might rise in the Tier List jsut based on that. He should, too.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

wow. i never though of chars raising on the list from MK getting banned.
lololol

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

If MK were banned the list would change drastically.

 

[The Milk Monster]

And what happens if MK gets banned from all those tourneys?
Lucas should go to middle because he has chain-grab and a better PK Fire than Ness. Also, speaking of MK, it's possible that Yoshi, because he has the best matchups with MK, might rise in the Tier List jsut based on that. He should, too.

Lucas's pk fire is only better then Ness's in knockback.
If Yoshi raises anything in the tier list, it won't be much just because his match up is even or close to with Meta.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

If MK were banned the list would change drastically.

>_>

Middle and low would see the most change, imo.

High Tier wouldn't fluctuate too much. Imagine the current High Tier list but without MK and MAYBE with the inclusion of Marth skirting underneath Falco in placement.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Barge]

>_>

Middle and low would see the most change, imo.

High Tier wouldn't fluctuate too much. Imagine the current High Tier list but without MK and MAYBE with the inclusion of Marth skirting underneath Falco in placement.

Smooth Criminal

Snake would be top, I think. He still has the 2nd best matchups >_>

 

[LumpyCPU...]

yeah. i think snake would be top. and i think the world would agree with us on that...
for now.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Snake would be top, I think. He still has the 2nd best matchups >_>

That's what I was getting at. Snake is really good.

Are there any match-ups that Snake has against other members of the cast that place him at a HUGE advantage?

*is curious. Doesn't really lurk the Snake boards.*

Smooth Criminal

 

[The Milk Monster]

I agree middle and low would fluctuate the most, but considering Meta isn't the only thing keeping some char's down, it wouldn't be like every character changing spots drastically, just those handful would jump somewhere.

Characters who suffer from chain grabs, grab releases, gimpable recoveries, etc, who knows about them.

Not having a Meta would definitely give people more courage to use their favorite character instead of whoever can beat Meta, and isn't that what Smash is about?

And on the topic of match ups and Snake, Link surprisingly has a pretty decent match up against Snake, he can camp him just as well, among other things.

 

[Barge]

That's what I was getting at. Snake is really good.

Are there any match-ups that Snake has against other members of the cast that place him at a HUGE advantage?

*is curious. Doesn't really lurk the Snake boards.*

Smooth Criminal

I don't know much about his matchups except for most of them are advantageous.
Captain falcon gets ***** pretty badly by snake...30-70.

lol, grenades canceling falcon punch, snake out prioritizing him in every way.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

lol
grenade canceling falcon punch... that would be the sickest attack ever!!!!

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Not having a Meta would definitely give people more courage to use their favorite character instead of whoever can beat Meta, and isn't that what Smash is about?

And on the topic of match ups and Snake, Link surprisingly has a pretty decent match up against Snake, he can camp him just as well, among other things.

See the underlined text.

If I wasn't such a jolly fat man today (and surprisingly, I'm not very jolly today, which is why I'm mentioning this), I would so call you out on that. Some of the terms I would use would be mild and consist of "learn to counterpick" or "play better."

But I digress. Link has a great match-up against Snake? I guess I can see that. Link's projectiles would probably be very effective against Snake's nade-and-mine shenanigans.

Edit: Poor Falcon. Snake is just too manly for his happy ***.

Smooth Criminal

 

[The Bird]

Guys, is this what we want Meta-Knight to become?

As a quote from Wikipedia.

In Super Street Fighter II Turbo, Akuma is banned in U.S. tournaments. This is because, as David Sirlin writes, "Most characters in that game cannot beat Akuma. I don’t mean it’s a tough match—I mean they cannot ever, ever, ever, ever win. Akuma is 'broken' in that his air fireball move is something the game simply wasn’t designed to handle. He is not merely the best character in the game, but is at least ten times better than other characters. This case is so extreme that all top players in America immediately realized that all tournaments would be Akuma vs. Akuma only, and so the character was banned with basically no debate and has been ever since." In Japan, Akuma is not officially banned, but there is what is called a soft ban. In other words, all top players in Japan agree not to play Akuma without their being any official enforcement of this agreement. However, on the remake Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix, Akuma is balanced; his "flaws" like the very low defense clauase reappear in this game and has a much weaker Shun Goku Satsu as the only Super Move available. His air fireball forces him to bounce back.

 

[Barge]

Mk ban thread??@@!

 

[Ryusuta]

Well, I'm not sure it's a matter of Meta Knight "becoming" like that, Bird. I figure either he is like that, or he isn't.

 

[Barge]

They shouldn't ban MK, I need him to CP snakes and peaches ;-;

 

[Nestec]

Does Ganon's Dair auto-cancel from a full jump? I mean, how do I time it?

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Do we want MK to be more balanced in a Brawl remake 12 years from now? Sure why not? =P

 

[da K.I.D.]

not the right place to ask that question buttttt...

if you activate the down air as soon as you jump, you can auto cancel it in a short hop

 

[TP]

Technically, Ganon's Dair doesn't autocancel at all. The move is just completely finished before he touches the ground. Everyone in the world calls it an autocancel, but it's really just a short hopped Dair.

 

[Browny]

Since making our own ideas of what the next tier list looks like (supposedly jan 5th?) gets flamed to crispy goodness, Ill simply guess whether each character will go up, down or stay and try to get as high % right as possible Should be fun. Gotta get at least half my guesses right lol...

Top
1 Meta Knight -- Stay
2 Snake -- Stay
3 King Dedede -- Stay
4 Mr. Game & Watch -- Stay
5 Falco -- Stay
6 R.O.B. -- Down

High
7 Marth -- Up
8 Wario -- Stay
9 Lucario -- Down
10 Donkey Kong -- Down
11 Diddy -- Up
12 Pikachu -- Down
13 Ice Climbers -- Up
14 Kirby -- Up
15 Pit -- Stay
16 Wolf -- Stay

Middle
17 Toon Link -- Stay
18 Olimar -- Up
19 Fox -- Down
20 Zelda -- Down
21 Zero Suit Samus -- Up
22 Bowser -- Down
23 Luigi -- Stay
24 Peach -- Up
25 Ike -- Down
26 Sheik -- Stay

Low
27 Lucas -- Down
28 Ness -- Down
29 Mario -- Up
30 Pokémon Trainer -- Down
31 Samus -- Down
32 Yoshi -- Up
33 Sonic -- Up
34 Jigglypuff -- Down
35 Ganondorf -- Down
36 Link -- Up
37 Captain Falcon -- Stay

I hope this can go without getting flamed... 'lol garbage list' etc im just trying to make a little game of guessing the next one

 

[KillerSOS]

Your list doesn't quite seem to match up... not enough people going down lolz

 

[Browny]

i count 13 going down and 12 going up?

for example with rob, marth and wario, although im guessing both of them will move up with only 1 space to move into, this simply means rob will move below both marth and wario

 

[Rawnie]

does anyone here believe that marth should be in top?

i dont wanna seem biased just cuz i use him but i think he deserves it.

Marth only has 3 bad match-ups (2 of which are near even 45:55) and that just leaves his only real bad match-up which is mk.
And marth is it tied for fourth in tourney rankings, beating out top tier characters like g&w and ROB.

Anyone else agree?

oh and zelda/sheik should have a spot

 

[KillerSOS]

Shiek should move up. Amazing gimps. I play Oli but still...

Oli belongs in the top of high if not low top tier.

 

[gantrain05]

does anyone here believe that marth should be in top?

i dont wanna seem biased just cuz i use him but i think he deserves it.

Marth only has 3 bad match-ups (2 of which are near even 45:55) and that just leaves his only real bad match-up which is mk.
And marth is it tied for fourth in tourney rankings, beating out top tier characters like g&w and ROB.

Anyone else agree?

oh and zelda/sheik should have a spot

the thing is, marth also doesn't have many real advantages either, he's mainly neutral to just about any character thats worth anything, the reason the top tiers are there is because even if they have disadvantaged matchups, the majority of their matchups are generally pretty good advantages, and they pretty much **** most of mid and low tier chars, marth is more or less 40-60 to 60-40 either way.

 

[Rawnie]

the thing is, marth also doesn't have many real advantages either, he's mainly neutral to just about any character thats worth anything, the reason the top tiers are there is because even if they have disadvantaged matchups, the majority of their matchups are generally pretty good advantages, and they pretty much **** most of mid and low tier chars, marth is more or less 40-60 to 60-40 either way.

that makes sense, but i have to correct u on something. marth ***** ALL of the low tier chars 65:35 if not higher. im not sure what u consider "****" but that seems like **** to me. after lookin at other character match-ups and i noticed falco doesnt have very many "****" advantages either. yet he is in Top tier. dedede even has some disadvantages from high and mid tier chars. at least marth has the 60:40 advantage over these chars altough it may not be by much but it still counts. Right?

 

[Ryusuta]

the thing is, marth also doesn't have many real advantages either, he's mainly neutral to just about any character thats worth anything, the reason the top tiers are there is because even if they have disadvantaged matchups, the majority of their matchups are generally pretty good advantages, and they pretty much **** most of mid and low tier chars, marth is more or less 40-60 to 60-40 either way.

That's not why the top tier is top tier. Hell, DeDeDe actually has some pretty BAD matches against some of the low tier (hi Jigglypuff).

The reason the top tier is where they are is simple: because they get results. They're used in tournaments and do well in them. After awhile, tournament results BECOME the tier list, when it comes to fighting games.

 

[Rawnie]

That's not why the top tier is top tier. Hell, DeDeDe actually has some pretty BAD matches against some of the low tier (hi Jigglypuff).

The reason the top tier is where they are is simple: because they get results. They're used in tournaments and do well in them. After awhile, tournament results BECOME the tier list, when it comes to fighting games.

well like i said earlier marth has great tourney rankings. he's tier for fourth even beating out some of the Top Tier characeters like rob and G&W

Here's the List
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165954

 

[Ryusuta]

I agree with you, hence why I agree with Marth's high placement.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Technically, Ganon's Dair doesn't autocancel at all. The move is just completely finished before he touches the ground. Everyone in the world calls it an autocancel, but it's really just a short hopped Dair.

I thought that was the definition of an autocancel...

now im comfused.

 

[PKNintendo]

Since making our own ideas of what the next tier list looks like (supposedly jan 5th?) gets flamed to crispy goodness, Ill simply guess whether each character will go up, down or stay and try to get as high % right as possible Should be fun. Gotta get at least half my guesses right lol...

Top
1 Meta Knight -- Stay
2 Snake -- Stay
3 King Dedede -- Stay
4 Mr. Game & Watch -- Stay
5 Falco -- Stay
6 R.O.B. -- Down

High
7 Marth -- Up
8 Wario -- Up
9 Lucario -- Down
10 Donkey Kong -- Down
11 Diddy -- Up
12 Pikachu -- Down
13 Ice Climbers -- Up
14 Kirby -- Up
15 Pit -- Stay
16 Wolf -- Stay

Middle
17 Toon Link -- Stay
18 Olimar -- Up
19 Fox -- Down
20 Zelda -- Down
21 Zero Suit Samus -- Up
22 Bowser -- Down
23 Luigi -- Stay
24 Peach -- Up
25 Ike -- Down
26 Sheik -- Stay

Low
27 Lucas -- Down
28 Ness -- Stay
29 Mario -- Up
30 Pokémon Trainer -- Down
31 Samus -- Down
32 Yoshi -- Up
33 Sonic -- Up
34 Jigglypuff -- Down
35 Ganondorf -- Down
36 Link -- Up
37 Captain Falcon -- Stay

I hope this can go without getting flamed... 'lol garbage list' etc im just trying to make a little game of guessing the next one

What is your reasoning for Ness not moving up? I mean, he does have the best results in E tier. (That is open to change unfortunately...) I agree with everything else.