The Official "Should/Will Metaknight be banned?" Thread (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

[Browny]

Pro-Ban:

-Meta Knight is always the best (safest) choice. true
-Many smashers are switching to Meta Knight in order to win more consistently. This is an exponential growth type effect, and is creating more and more MK mains. true
-Meta Knight limits character diversity by causing the opposition to pick MK in order to counter him, as another MK has the "best" matchup against MK. true
-Meta Knight is causing players to quit the game because of his dominance, shrinking the competitive community. true
-Meta Knight cripples the metagame because all strategies are currently going towards beating Meta Knight, rather than general strategies. true
-Meta Knight may cause seizures if stared at directly for long periods of time. true

Anti-Ban:

-Banning Meta Knight is an irreversible process - unbanning is very unlikely to happen. speculation
-Meta Knight has matchups which are even, and this allows him to be beaten, removing the need for a ban. wisful thinking
-Strategies for beating Meta Knight are still being developed. This does NOT necessarily mean AT's, but specific matchup discussion. Many discoveries remain to be made. wishful thinking
-The game is only 6 months old. It is far too early to ban a character when the metagame is not completely developed. speculatiob[/b[
-Other fighting games have had characters with few bad matchups and disadvantages, and they were not officially banned. few =/= 0
-Much of MK's dominance may be due to certain players (M2K, Dojo, etc.). Other characters have dedicated pros who are able to beat Meta Knights quite often (Azen, Santi, etc). Everyone knows this isnt the case, MK dominates tourneys everywhere, all the time
-Yuna says so. (Just kidding, don't e-*****slap me!)

I'm just offering this up. People who have been away or are just arriving, enjoy.

Discuss!

discussed

 

[AlexX]

Yun wasn't unfair, he was really good. But he was beatable.

Metaknight is beatable, too. Really, there's no difference between the two: Yun is better than everyone else in his game (possibly barring Ken) and could easily dominate if everyone flocked to him like they are MK.

 

[brinboy789]

Yun wasn't unfair, he was really good. But he was beatable.

MK is too.

the thing about fox is that, although he (and falco) ***** dudes hardcore, however, because of their falling speed, every character in that game had zero to death combos that only worked on fox and falco. so even though he was a beast, he was highly beatable.

also
KID IS BACK IN THE HISSSOUSE!!!
SUCK IT YUNAAA!!

marth. CG much?

Metaknight is beatable, too. Really, there's no difference between the two: Yun is better than everyone else in his game (possibly barring Ken) and could easily dominate if everyone flocked to him like they are MK.

QFT

 

[da K.I.D.]

MK doesnt cause seizures, he causes extreme fits of anger
and he doesnt dominate everywhere all of the time, just most places all of the time
other than that, dj has hit it right on the head

 

[Boxob]

Meta knight isn't as good as Sonic.

Sonic's really fast.

 

[brinboy789]

Meta knight isn't as good as Sonic.

Sonic's really fast.

your kidding right?

MK doesnt cause seizures, he causes extreme fits of anger
and he doesnt dominate everywhere all of the time, just most places all of the time
other than that, dj has hit it right on the head

"MK causes extreme fits of anger" .............................

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Whos denying that MK is beatable? there is no need to Q it FT

 

[NeoCrono]

Metaknight is beatable, too. Really, there's no difference between the two: Yun is better than everyone else in his game (possibly barring Ken) and could easily dominate if everyone flocked to him like they are MK.

True, if everyone played him (like our favorite little puffball with wings) he would **** any and everything that stood in his way. But from what I know (I dont know a lot) at least where I played, people used Makato, there were some yuns and Ken. But Makato for the most part lol.

 

[Mmac]

your kidding right?

I'm guessing that you haven't seen boxob before!


Wait... boxob spelled backwards is..... O_o

 

[Boxob]

I'm guessing that you haven't seen boxob before!


Wait... boxob spelled backwards is..... O_o

Who the F are you?

 

[itsthebigfoot]

you do realizes that two new finds may give two characters advantageous matchups on metaknight

Wario's CG to 115% on meta (hard to do)

and grounded footstool combos allow dk to punish one of the two moves that made it even for metaknight (glide attack), upb is still a pain, but he doesn't have an unpunishable followup anymore. stillm when someone gets it down, punishing several of metas attacks with a headbutt is gonna help dk a lot, and the matchup is already even

 

[brinboy789]

Whos denying that MK is beatable? there is no need to Q it FT

look down

Yun wasn't unfair, he was really good. But he was beatable.

^
^
^
10posts

 

[da K.I.D.]

he is the foremost expert on yoshi, mah boi.

i heard warios CG doesnt actually work on MK and if it does, you can only effectively get Mk to 32%

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Does SC have stage counter picks? If so does yun have bad stages?

I'm not even sure why I'm talking about this. Brawl isn't SC

 

[Boxob]

he is the foremost expert on yoshi, mah boi.

Wait, really? I should play him.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

look down

Originally Posted by SugarShiek33 View Post
Yun wasn't unfair, he was really good. But he was beatable.

^
^
^
10posts

omg surgar shiek you should know better that saying yun is beatable = saying MK is unbeatable.

 

[Koga]

Does SC have stage counter picks? If so does yun have bad stages?

I'm not even sure why I'm talking about this. Brawl isn't SC

You realize its still comparable on a meta game level right?

and i don't think SC has stage counter picks, however some characters are better at ring outs and some stages are easier to ring out, so i gues the answer is sort of? I know on SC2 that talim had a flip thing she could do to juggle you all the way off the stage.

 

[brinboy789]

Does SC have stage counter picks? If so does yun have bad stages?

I'm not even sure why I'm talking about this. Brawl isn't SC

im pretty sure all the stages were all the same, just different backgrounds...and were talking about SC because one of thier chars was in the same, if not worst situation right now then MK, and still wasnt banned. so why should we ban MK?

 

[Dojo]

Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I now have something to quote Dojo on on this matter. Too bad he doesn't have SBR access to argue this there. Not surprisingly, he argues pretty much the same things I argue, only more "nicely" (the fool!).

Yeah, I wish i could get in there. I wanna have opposing intellectual views. I'll be mean about my arguments next time.

 

[NeoCrono]

omg surgar shiek you should know better that saying yun is beatable = saying MK is unbeatable.

I'm sorry
I'll never do it again I promise

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

im pretty sure all the stages were all the same, just different backgrounds...and were talking about SC because one of thier chars was in the same, if not worst situation right now then MK, and still wasnt banned. so why should we ban MK?

Because this isn't melee let alone SC.

 

[brinboy789]

Does SC have stage counter picks? If so does yun have bad stages?

I'm not even sure why I'm talking about this. Brawl isn't SC

Because this isn't melee let alone SC.

but its the SAME THING. well advantage wise. yun has NO bad matchups, neutral maybe with ken, and yet he wasnt banned. its the same thing, just a different game.

 

[da K.I.D.]

in SF everystage is tha same lol
EDIT: bboy you know your just regurgitating facts you heard from other people so dont act so superior about your knowledge

 

[Mmac]

he is the foremost expert on yoshi, mah boi.

i heard warios CG doesnt actually work on MK and if it does, you can only effectively get Mk to 32%

It's still being debated, but if it does, it works to about 70.

Wait, really? I should play him.

No, stay Sheik please

 

[itsthebigfoot]

he is the foremost expert on yoshi, mah boi.

i heard warios CG doesnt actually work on MK and if it does, you can only effectively get Mk to 32%

theres still my point on dk

if mk gets even one disadvantageous match you lose your case for a ban

 

[adumbrodeus]

you do realizes that two new finds may give two characters advantageous matchups on metaknight

Wario's CG to 115% on meta (hard to do)

and grounded footstool combos allow dk to punish one of the two moves that made it even for metaknight (glide attack), upb is still a pain, but he doesn't have an unpunishable followup anymore. stillm when someone gets it down, punishing several of metas attacks with a headbutt is gonna help dk a lot, and the matchup is already even

Since when was it even? Dk is at a disadvantage to MK. Regardless, interesting.


As for Wario, discussed the chaingrab, effectively useless unfortunately, Wario doesn't have the grab range to do it reliably against MK. It same issue as him against ICs.


But new discoveries are always nice.

 

[Boxob]

It's still being debated, but if it does, it works to about 70.



No, stay Sheik please

Whut? I use sheik in Melee, not Brawl.

Brawl's a scrubs game.

I meant play his yoshi, with my Sawnik.

Scrub scrub scrub.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

Since when was it even? Dk is at a disadvantage to MK. Regardless, interesting.


As for Wario, discussed the chaingrab, effectively useless unfortunately, Wario doesn't have the grab range to do it reliably against MK. It same issue as him against ICs.


But new discoveries are always nice.

since when was he disadvantaged?

even mk mains admit its even, dk out ranges him and can kill him very low

 

[MuBa]

MK is beatable, but in the end of a set he will be the victor (albeit having 2 opponents of equal level).

This is regarding to matchups in MKs favor btw.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

but its the SAME THING. well advantage wise. yun has NO bad matchups, neutral maybe with ken, and yet he wasnt banned. its the same thing, just a different game.

Well if he has a neutral with ken this MK's match ups are worse because he has no neutrals.

since when was he disadvantaged?

even mk mains admit its even, dk out ranges him and can kill him very low

Since like 2 months ago I think? I'm not sure but its disadvantaged now.

 

[brinboy789]

MK is beatable, but in the end of a set he will be the victor (albeit having 2 opponents of equal level).

This is regarding to matchups in MKs favor btw.

if 2 players of equal caliber p;lay a game in which one person plays a better char the nanother, who will win? the person with the better char. its the same in every fighting game

Well if he has a neutral with ken this MK's match ups are worse because he has no neutrals.


Since like 2 months ago I think? I'm not sure but its disadvantaged now.

MK has neutrals...yoshi, snake, possibily DK & wario if CG works

 

[Dark Sonic]

@itsthebigfoot. Also, if the MK spaces the glide attack, you cannont footstool him afterwards.

MK has neutrals...yoshi, snake, possibily DK & wario if CG works

Yoshi-Maybe
Snake-No
Wario-No, even if the chaingrab by some slim chance does work, and even if it turns out to be an infinite. NO!

 

[Hylian]

once you find a reliable way to punish snakes ftilt and utilt, come see me...

Snakes Ftilt is pretty simple to punish actually. Just powershield the first hit and spotdodge the second. Or you can just shield and drop your shield and punish depending on your character. Utilt you can powershield.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

if 2 players of equal caliber p;lay a game in which one person plays a better char the nanother, who will win? the person with the better char. its the same in every fighting game



MK has neutrals...yoshi, snake, possibily DK & wario if CG works

no, no, no, and no. The warrio CG is the same as the IC CG and it doesn't get them a neutral match up.

Yoshi is at a disadvantage same with Snake and DK.

edit: actually its worse its not a 0 to death

 

[Grunt]

Hylian isn't purpley anymore.

 

[adumbrodeus]

since when was he disadvantaged?

even mk mains admit its even, dk out ranges him and can kill him very low

Since people realized that by being just in ftilt range, suddenly everything DK does is very punishable. And you can safely poke him with dtilt.

Sure DK has good range, and can kill low, but MK has better rushdown and his better ranged moves simply aren't safe. If MK spaces right, Dk simply doesn't have the tools to throw him off that spacing, and MK simply has much better rushdown and a much better gimp game.

Basically, DK has to depend on MK making a mistake to do anything while MK can freely pressure DK, and he has a killer follow-up.

60-40

 

[brinboy789]

@itsthebigfoot. Also, if the MK spaces the glide attack, you cannont footstool him afterwards.



Yoshi-Maybe
Snake-No
Wario-No, even if the chaingrab by some slim chance does work, and even if it turns out to be an infinite. NO!

no, no, no, and no. The warrio CG is the same as the IC CG and it doesn't get them a neutral match up.

Yoshi is at a disadvantage same with Snake and DK.

i thought we all agreed on the fact that yoshi IS neutral. i posted a thread on both snake and MK boards on the matchup and most of them (including M2K) agree that the matchup is neutral. DK...arguably, its 55:45, which is pretty much neutral. DK's fsmash comes out pretty quick for the knockback that it gives >.<. and bair...

edit: forgot to mention...@dark sonic: if wario had an infinite onMK, the matchup would still be in MK's favor? i don think so...

 

[da K.I.D.]

mmac, boxob was saying that he wanted to play against you. not that he wanted to start laying as yoshi.
and if its proven that MK has a neutral ill think about dropping my ban case.
and yea, whats up with the name color hylian

Edit: brinboy
you do a lot of irritating things...
pretty much neutral is not neutral, so DK has a disadvantage to MK. yes he can space well with f tilt and back air, but Mk can tornado DK up to near 50% with no resistance, seriously its more dependable than D3s chaingrab. DKs f-smash is slow, d- smash is the quick one.
the ice climbers have infinite chain grabs on everybody in the game, but they still have disadvantageous matchups (one of them being MK)

 

[adumbrodeus]

mmac, boxob was saying that he wanted to play against you. not that he wanted to start laying as yoshi.
and if its proven that MK has a neutral ill think about dropping my ban case.
and yea, whats up with the name color hylian

Why? Granted it's too early for an actual ban, but he now has all of 1 neutral, not including the situational diddy and himself.

Yoshi is at a disadvantage same with Snake and DK.

edit: actually its worse its not a 0 to death

Forgot this one.

No, unlike ICs, Yoshi can actually grab in this match-up, his pivot grab is amazing.

I believe he can beat out any MK approach with it, and it releases into an up-smash. Mmac would know better then me, but plenty of MKs have met unfortunate ends because of it.

The problem is, he has no way to force an approach... that's why it's neutral, not Yoshi's advantage.

 

[brinboy789]

mmac, boxob was saying that he wanted to play against you. not that he wanted to start laying as yoshi.
and if its proven that MK has a neutral ill think about dropping my ban case.
and yea, whats up with the name color hylian

MK at LEAST has 1 neutral, yoshi. theres also arguably snake, DK, and wario if the 115% thingy works.