The official SWF Matchup Chart: Pit

[Starwave]

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So the 2nd round of matchups were released recently, and I must say i'm really impressed with Pit. I feared he'd lose his edge against a lot of characters, but his matchups have only gotten better. His single worst matchup is MK, who is banned, meaning he's got 5 bad matchups period, all of which aren't even that bad in the first place. We've got our work cut out for ourselves Pit.

 

[Loz8ichimaru]

This is really cool. Though I disagree completely about Pit-Wario being -1, should have stayed -2 - I play this match-up all the time and it's horrible.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

i play it pretty often and kuro plays it all the time and we think it's only +1 wario. just wall him with nairs fairs and jabs and stay under platforms. just run and wall him the whole time. pretty simple.

this match of kuro's was what brought awakening to style pit needs to play wario.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKRuxdUXz44

hey i just went to youtube and kuro you've been holding out on vids. you should submit them to the youtube thread

 

[Kuro~]

Lol i only post what i feel should be used as any form of material.
All those old vids are bad son.

Wario is def. only -1.

 

[fUddO]

I don't think Falco is even. More like a -1. They camp about evenly, but Falco can land his chaingrab better because of his grab range and lazer combos, has more kill power, and is better at CQC. Pit does have gimping and stage counterpicking on his side, but it doesn't really feel like enough to offset the on stage advantage.

 

[Loz8ichimaru]

i play it pretty often and kuro plays it all the time and we think it's only +1 wario. just wall him with nairs fairs and jabs and stay under platforms. just run and wall him the whole time. pretty simple.

this match of kuro's was what brought awakening to style pit needs to play wario.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKRuxdUXz44

Good display, I'll try a be a little more disciplined in my play and see how it goes.

 

[Blubolouis]

I don't feel like Pika is a -1 at all.
I could see sonic as a +1 also.

I looks great anyway.

 

[HariKyuubi]

Me gusta. 'Course, this list does not change the fact that I am still personally horrible against ZSS. orz

So, Pit is even with a LOT of the cast. Can't wait to see how the tier list goes with the MK ban in place... Things are looking good for us. :fluttershy:

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

i can see the pit pika mu being -1

@fuddo

you under estimate pit's priority and options in this MU. it's even. have faith young pit.

as long as we even with snake im not salty.

 

[theONEjanitor]

We're basically finally seeing what Japan already knows about Pit.
We have a better matchup spread than Snake, who's third on the tier list lol

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

having less bad MUs both does and doesnt make a character better. also we don't have a better spread than snake lol. he's got one less bad mu than us with MK banned and has way more positives than negatives. however we are definately a high tier character thats for sure

 

[Krystedez]

Grabbing snake by the nades was the first priority a la v.2.0.

Pikachu randomly wanted a +1 and we were all randomly like "eeehhhh (shrug) maybe?" but I know better... It's an even matchup...

(shrugs) but I'm fine with it, Pikachu is harder than Snake.

Also I main Wario and Pit so I know both sides of the mu, I also recently got to play Hunger, but he doesn't know the matchup for jack-****. I ain't tellin him either. He can figure it out when I beat him enough, serves him right for being a better Wario than me in the ditto all these eons.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Dont think gaw is bad for us anymore.

 

[Kuro~]

^^^^^^ I've been sharing that opinion the more i play it tbh...

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

yall are crazy. pit is not an amazing character. he is great but not amazing. and quite frankly we are getting way to optimistic with his bad MUs. so here are my new opinions using the old number system for the mu ratios on what i think our bad mus are with some reasoning behind them. between pools and the few friendlies i played this weekend, as well as past experiance, here it is

wario 60:40 warios advantage (i think that is the border of -1 and -2). ya, as long as we have the percent lead, it's even. soon as we have to approach wario because we are a stock down though, you may as well call it game over. however wario can approach us and get the lead back. try and use theory craft to prove me wrong if you want, but until you play a top wario, you just won't understand.

g&w 55:45 g&w advantage (-1). we would go even if he didn't kill us so early and if he didn't have the easier time damage racking. plus in actual gameplay perfect spacing is not an option, however human error will always factor into this

marth 60:40 marth's advantage out speeds, out spaces, easier time killing, easier time edge guarding. all we have on him is offstage game and arrows.

ICs 55:45. the cg combined with an lgl in place puts it in their favor. with no lgl it would be like 65:35 pit's favor or more

diddy kong 55:45 or 60:40
as long as diddy kong is holding one banana glide attack is invalidated. we can slip out of WOI if we touch a grounded banana. his side-b goes through both our reflectors (grab beats mirror, kick beats AR). his fair is a pain and bananas allow him to punish a lot of our moves.

metaknight..... doesn't matter actually

 

[Kuro~]

You crazy son. And i'll explain why once i get my laptop fixed ...

 

[Krystedez]

wario 60:40 warios advantage (i think that is the border of -1 and -2). ya, as long as we have the percent lead, it's even. soon as we have to approach wario because we are a stock down though, you may as well call it game over. however wario can approach us and get the lead back. try and use theory craft to prove me wrong if you want, but until you play a top wario, you just won't understand.

Who have you played that you consider top, Maharba?

When Wario gets the lead, he CAN camp you, but it isn't effective as us camping him right back. A stock lead means nothing except when you are already in kill percent yourself, that is when I'd agree almost. Pit is viable against Wario given most situations, you just have to know when and what move to use against him, because of his mobility. Our only deficiency is KO potential, but with more options agaisnt him to force him to approach than he has, I think it's fairly safe to safe that Warios still have to be soley outplaying/better than a good Pit to win by a decent margin. If you're getting 2-stocked by Warios there's something wrong with how you're approaching the matchup and I can definitely help if needed.

g&w 55:45 g&w advantage (-1). we would go even if he didn't kill us so early and if he didn't have the easier time damage racking. plus in actual gameplay perfect spacing is not an option, however human error will always factor into this

I agree.

marth 60:40 marth's advantage out speeds, out spaces, easier time killing, easier time edge guarding. all we have on him is offstage game and arrows.

So you think Marth is a solid +2 against us? I'd be inclined to agree and factor that in into the next chart if I had enough marth experience to slide that way. ATM I do not. Make a case with some video material and experiences of your own, this would be an interesting discussion.

ICs 55:45. the cg combined with an lgl in place puts it in their favor. with no lgl it would be like 65:35 pit's favor or more

I keep telling people LGL isn't that significant because it's still like 50 for all characters is it not (besides MK who doesnt matter). We can use that combined with off stage arrow shots and careful jabs and pokes to keep it close to even. A...Anyways, I don't think a +1/-1 isn't that big of a deal, I believe Wario and ICs to be about the same difficulty so...

diddy kong 55:45 or 60:40
as long as diddy kong is holding one banana glide attack is invalidated. we can slip out of WOI if we touch a grounded banana. his side-b goes through both our reflectors (grab beats mirror, kick beats AR). his fair is a pain and bananas allow him to punish a lot of our moves.

I MM'd count a while ago back and it was fairly even, and I wasn't even that good back then (this was about...almost a year ago?) He timed me out lmao, and it was a 3-2 game. Very close. Diddy is no doubt an even matchup. He really can't kill us if we watch what the hell we're doing and DI every attempt of a kill move. His KO power is really lackluster, even given all the setups he has for his kill moves.

 

[Kuro~]

I share all of krystedez's sentiments particularly IC and wario. Marth i could seeing being worse or better in the future as i've said a million times. I also could see gaw getting better...but we'll see.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

i played bassem at apex and at hobo 33 i got in a couple friendlies with jnig. i've also played you on wifi but i won't actually count that because it was so laggy. i mean this MU is almost like playing the peach MU except he kills much much earlier and lives longer, plus his u-air really ****s us up in the air because it outranges our dair because it's so disjointed.

count has nothing on gnes. while keith has never told me his opinion of this MU (and he has esca, kown, and others including myself for experiance) i think he would agree with me. he says he has never had problems with this MU even back in the day when he played r@vyn. hell here is the video of keith beating him back when he wasn't anywhere near as good as he is now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEPc8AAxkxE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdNpqtiwFwQ

for ICs, the fact is on neutral stages, it's hard not to go over the LGL. just ask fyre. i mean sure we can air camp the way im gonna start discussing in the IDEA thread later (fyre saw me do it to bassem) but i still feel the fact that we have to be off the ledge against ICs puts it just in their favor. i mean game one is the most important game and unfortunately stages that can be sharked are not in the starter list, other wise it would be our advantage.

 

[Krystedez]

Ill watch the Ravyn videos just to tear him apart since he doesnt play much pit or at all anymore from what I can see.

Current metagame though if a Pit ever runs across a Diddy in bracket and that Pit is actually good we'll see what happens. I've run into Diddys in both bracket and pools and never had an issue fighting them. count was my first time playing a diddy seriously and then after that I ran through diddy's like a lawn mower. But most of them are just mw diddys and randoms, not like GNES or ADHD whom of which I havent been close to in order TO play.

Diddy is a ***** online though. No diddy online is worth mentioning.

EDIT:

I cant even watch these... Ravyn's gameplay is so freakin' stiff, my gosh, and he doesn't use the bananas against him at all hardly. I always keep one banana and do wave bounced arrows or whatever (RAR arrows? whatever it is where you retreat and bounce back with a jump). Still you already acknowledge it's age by saying Keith's skill (Im assuming that GNES) isn't the same there.

Anyways. I get your points Maharb, I just think at the modern metagame it isn't fair to justify Diddy v Pit as either character's advantage. If it makes you feel better, Diddy's did at one point petition for a change from 0 to +1 their favor, but did not follow through, as they had no one to provide such evidence. I would have fought hard though, because as it is, ANY experience is either too low level or too old to make it meaningful. Not doggin' on possible mu exp. that gnes has with esca and kown, but I'd like to see it to believe it, plus somewhat recent (at least early 2011)
EDIT2:

I've also played jeepie at Genesis, but I can't recall if we did wario dittos only or not. . . Actually, nope, we didn't, I still beat him with Pit once.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

you beat jeepie the norcal wario with pit? very based. and yes keith=gnes

and i do acknowledge that keith hasn't played kiraflax or koolaid or YOU recently or any pit but me and esca within the past several months. i mean i could be mistaken as im proven to be one the lowest level pit's here, but still i feel like it's diddy's advantage from my own experiance. but when i play trela or razer, while they still body me don't get me wrong, i can see my mistakes against them and i don't feel 100% helpless against them. but against keith, i literally feel hopeless when i go into a set with him. i only last long because im one of the only pit's gay enough to actually plank (which takes no skill).

 

[Krystedez]

keep in mind that GNES won MLG and several large events, he's argueably the best Diddy main.

and yes I beat jeepie with pit and wario, people were hella cheerin against me even though I was outplaying him pretty bad. sorry, what do you mean by "based"?

 

[Damix91]

Means Biased, I'd Imagine

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

no it does not mean biased. haven't you ever heard brawlers say "thank you based god"? or "that was very based"? i think trevonte started it actually. it's making fun of lil b aka "based god". so smashers everywhere (especially norcal and texas) make fun of him by "praying to based god" and using his name as an expression of all things good

you guys are behind on the memes

edit:

i know that he's the best diddy lol. which is why he is the best experiance. mlg, many many hobos, and other big stuff like you said, trust me i know my boy da bess.

 

[Kuro~]

B4 i even read all this i would like to make a note that gnes...was in fact...THE ONLY DIDDY THAT SAID EVEN FOR PIT WHEN THEY WERE TRYING TO +1

Just sayin~

 

[Krystedez]

Half of the Diddy panel wanted even and the other half wanted +1 their favor, now that you mention it. The half that wanted +1 were players that are not on the top 5 thread under Diddy, if that is any indication.

 

[DUB]

Pits MU spread according to this is pretty good. Maybe wrong thread or place for this but I've always been curois about playing him but I rarely ever see Pit players let alone Pit players that do well. Is it just he lacks represenation? A spread like that has to warrant some kind of results in the right hands. Not hating on any Pit players, just wanting to clear something up.

 

[Krystedez]

You are absolutely right Dub about there being no Pit players. At least in the US.

Europe and Japan have a thorough bred line of perhaps some of the greatest players, and they just so happen to include Pit. Maybe with MK banned people will start using this amazing character for what he is and show off their skill.

I'm like the only one who uses Arrow looping effectively in America. Hence why I do well at events and have a top position.

Kira is the only American pit capable of a super aggro style and knows his ins and outs when it comes to frame advantage and disjointed attacks.

The rest of the Pits are just mid-high level players that haven't excelled in Out of region events quite yet, but still do quite well at home and in state.

I hope that someday changes

EDIT: This obv discludes retired or inactive players like Kool, Esca, and Prince Ramen

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

lack of american rep. meanwhile in japan (the country with most developed metagame hands down) pit has an even better MU spread and also is top 5 on their tier list. in japan pit mains are always top 10 or top 5. in america, all of the tourney attending pits currently are kiraflax, krystedez, ptzr, fyre, luckay, kuro, myself, loli, and the odd pit main here and there that doesn't go to tournies more than like once or twice. that's all the pit mains there are. and after dez (and ptzr but there is a noticable gap between him and the top 2) none of us are uber amazing. we're all just okay. it's really quite lame but that's the fact. there are like 10 pit's in all of america that go to tourney, and only 2 of them place noticably in tournies/nationals (kira got 25th at genesis 2, krys does stuff). ptzr made round 2 pools at apex, luckay took 5th at a tourney once with noticable players, and fyre does really well but gets gayed by stupid stuff. im not good in tourney (despite being one of the most knowledgeable pit mains when it comes to this character and others) and have yet to do anything noteworthy with pit besides make discoveries about him. the other pits who used to matter and place well retired. however due note that when they played they did very well (koolaid has won multiple tournies with pit, esca used to consistently place well in texas, and prince ramen...... well he won a tourney and then disapeared). and back in the day when players like sagemoon and kown were around, he was higher on the tier list but they are all gone.

 

[Kuro~]

Guys guys it's okay. I'm gonna be the hero you need.

Speaking of...

Maha when i travel to texas you should house me

 

[theONEjanitor]

i dunno maybe i'm biased but I look at the mid tier and I'm like why is Pit in the company of these loser characters??

you guys will hear about my pit soon enough tho
this character is mad underrated.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

that's fine kuro

 

[Krystedez]

Speakin of Kira placing 25th at Genesis, he does go ROB some too, so, I think my Pit ****** a well known Yoshi and doing well in pools by himself mostly (including taking jeepie) is notable enough. (that 13th place )

Top 2 Pits currently don't even fully main their character is what I'm gettin at.

Go down the list, and it's even worse besides our number three PTZR who solos Pit I believe. Luckay goes Pika and Fyre I don't know if she does more than just Pit. Kuro has a Snake that needs to effin' drop, along with that Wario, because his Pit is just too good to leave to the wayside when we're in desperate need of awesome Pits for 2012.

All the Pits that Maharba listed need to go solo Pit this year or we're not living. I might retire soon due to school, I don't know yet. Wario has been in the cabinet for a while, so next tourney Im going all Pit, due to it being mk banned especially. (THIS WEEKEND IN ILLINOIS, DON'T BLINK 4 btw KEEP YO EYES PEELED Im so excited havent been to a smash event all winteR!!)

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

kira pit/rob. but at genesis went damn near all pit

krys pit/wario. putting in mad work and if he places well at the next tourney with solo pit will be #1

ptzr pit/mk. mk is banned now so solo pit

fyre pit and only pit

luckay pit/pika. don't know how much pika he uses

maharba might start doing ICs in singles and pit in doubles and to cover ICs bad MUs. not positive but since im to broke to go practice pit against people getting down IC grabs is the most useful thing i can do by myself so why not do it. is not sure if kuro is better than me or not but ima be vain and put myself here

kuro pit. needs to drop wario and snake. his pit is better than both of those

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

to be honest that was the exact reasons i thought it would be. im satisfied atm. now i will happily be patient for another couple weeks.

and then i will ask about the dk pit write up as i really want to know how a character we can 0-62+% true cg>attacks, has the easiest recovery to mirror shield, is 100% outprioritized by our whole movest (and our moves are faster), is easily hit with our op bair, and has no real solution to perfect spaced planking especially when combined with scrooging and circle camping with the tactic in this video (i know i lose at the end but im making a point). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P836RYUudzM&list=UUsOy2X6gEclSCyFlDOUKBCQ&index=3&feature=plpp_video

not to mention arrows really rack up the damage both on and offstage and set up gimps and the fact that our jab, side-b, and nair damn near invalidate his shield is now only a -1 for donkey. what possible factor appeared out of no-where to make this better for donkey kong?

oh ya and our cps on him should we lose make it horrid for him. i swear if the only thing they mention is killpower, im gonna laugh because hitting pit with dk is nothing short of incredibly hard

cassio said to ask the individual character boards about this so i am

krystedez and kuro

 

[Krystedez]

You're confusing Maharba lmao, it isn't "now only a -1 for donkey" lolwut?



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[Maharba the Mystic]

on the actual chart it says -1 my bad

 

[Kuro~]

Don't worry guys. As long as mk stays banned i'll be going 100% pit for at least the first 6 months. I'm putting in tons of effort to reach new levels with this guy.

 

[DUB]

A lot of TO's are still choosing to hold MK legal tournies though. Atleast here there will be both MK ban/legal tournies.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

texas isn't gonna have any mk tournies unless Dojo starts holding tournies lolololol