The Past and Present of LIttle Mac

[Rekzius]

With 2015 coming to a close i thought we should have a look at the all we have gone through, and see how far LIttle Mac has come. (I am also making this a semi history thread, just to keep track)

We can start by having a look at all the patches that impacted Mac.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Version 1.0.3 (No charaters were changed)
- Nothing

Version 1.0.4

• Hit 2 of neutral attack damage: 3% → 2%
• Hit 3 of neutral attack damage: 8% → 7%
• Aerial Jolt haymaker has less horizontal reach.
• Forward tilt's hitbox is slightly closer to Little Mac.

This was the biggest nerf that mac ever got. The reason being that he apparently had to good of a recovery. How did this happen? Well it a bit complicated. Back when all tournaments were played on 3ds, people`s playstyles were very restrcted and unoptimized. This is how Bowser became top tier early on, but fell off when the Wii u version came out. This resulted in wildfire of nerfs with some of them hitting Mac. This nerf was really undeserved in my opinion, as we clearly can see now Mac was in no way overpvered back then. I don`t think there were any macs in top eight back then either. Regardless there is nothing we can do about that now, we just have to live with it.
____________________________________________________________________________________

Version 1.0.6

• Star Uppercut will always make Little Mac take a step forward. No more wind whiffs.
• Jolt Haymaker has increased knockback.

OK, look at first glance this might look like a buff, and in some ways it is. Back before 1.0.6 this move never killed by the way, even when it was suposed to. This is how the move should have been all along. Its kind of like when someone promises you a gift or something and then its not as great as you thought, and then they fix it later. You`re still happy, but you just feel like this all could have been avoided.
____________________________________________________________________________________

Version 1.0.7
-Nothing (No charaters were changed)
____________________________________________________________________________________

Version 1.0.8
-Nothing (Other characters were changed)
____________________________________________________________________________________

Version 1.1.0

• 
  
  • Fully charged Straight lunge start up reduced (7 → 6 frames).
  • Straight Lunge's early sweetspot extended for 2 extra frames, later hitbox extended 4 extra frames.
  • Jolt haymaker hitbox duration has been increased: (5 → 7 frames)

FInally! The first "real" buff. It may not be that huge, but hey we`ll take it. (You know the third one, cause who uses straight lunge anyway.)
____________________________________________________________________________________

Version 1.1.1

• 
  
  • Stunning straight lunge (Neutral-3) uncharged deals more damage: 10% → 11%
  • Fully charged Stunning Straight Lunge's (Neutral-3) knockback scaling has been increased: 60 → 70

Yay! Costoms!

(Also this was the shieldstun patch, which indirectly was probably the biggest buff for mac ever.)
____________________________________________________________________________________

Version 1.1.2 (No charaters were changed)
-Nothing
____________________________________________________________________________________

Version 1.1.3 (Other characters were changed)
-Nothing "sigh"

I was really getting my hopes up for this one, but alas nothing.
____________________________________________________________________________________

After all of this is said and done, i feel like mac has not been changed that much. For better or for worse. But to be honest, as Mac stands now he is just not strong enough to compete with the higher tiers. His glaring weekness is just to huge for him to make an impact at the moment. He needs to be buffed, it does not have to be a huge buff, but he still needs quite a few. Hell, if Bowser can get a hoo haa, that kills at like 80% with rage. Then mac must be able to get a few buffs, right?

I think Sakurai intended for Mac to be a good character. And if he did, then it should not be unreaonable to exspect a buff in the future. There is still a few patches to go, so guess we just have to wait and see.

 

[Zoramine Fae]

Mac hasn't changed that much, which saddens me greatly especially with the most recent patch. I was expecting some type of buff to my main man, but I guess that'll have to wait for another day.

 

[jet56]

i really don't think little mac needs help in buffs. do other characters need to be nerfed? yes. and i won't mind buffs, and can think of one or two that would greatly help little mac (improved grab range, pre side b nerf removed), but he works fine the way he is. he just hasn't been explored or used well enough by enough players yet. give it time. the game really is only a little over a year old.

 

[Rekzius]

i really don't think little mac needs help in buffs. do other characters need to be nerfed? yes. and i won't mind buffs, and can think of one or two that would greatly help little mac (improved grab range, pre side b nerf removed), but he works fine the way he is. he just hasn't been explored or used well enough by enough players yet. give it time. the game really is only a little over a year old.

With the new patch not nerfing any of the obvious targets, i feel like it is safe to asume that sakurai rather wants to buff bad characters than nerf good ones. if that is the case then mac desperately needs a buff. Of course there is much we have yet to discover, but i still fell like mac will get left behind if other characters get buffed and not him. I would almost argue to say that bowser - little mac is now a bowser favorable due to the huge grab range of his grab and followups after the patch, who knows if other charcters will get the same treatment.

 

[Zoramine Fae]

i really don't think little mac needs help in buffs. do other characters need to be nerfed? yes. and i won't mind buffs, and can think of one or two that would greatly help little mac (improved grab range, pre side b nerf removed), but he works fine the way he is. he just hasn't been explored or used well enough by enough players yet. give it time. the game really is only a little over a year old.

I don't want any truly heavy nerfs anymore. Like, the Luigi down throw nerf was necessary. Nerfing Sheik might be necessary, but I honestly feel like nerfing her anymore is the equivilant of just taking away her FAir and needles and replacing them with Little Mac's FAir and Toad, respectively.

Honestly, just buffing all of the worse characters to make them better is all that needs to be done, and then some light nerfing/buffing here and there would do well for the cast.

I'm just sad Mac didn't get any ultra-minor buffs (Like a slightly faster FAF frame on UTilt and FTilt, make it harder to SDI out of the Rapid Jab.) That's all.

 

[SuFiRo]

I don't want any truly heavy nerfs anymore. Like, the Luigi down throw nerf was necessary. Nerfing Sheik might be necessary, but I honestly feel like nerfing her anymore is the equivilant of just taking away her FAir and needles and replacing them with Little Mac's FAir and Toad, respectively.

Honestly, just buffing all of the worse characters to make them better is all that needs to be done, and then some light nerfing/buffing here and there would do well for the cast.

I'm just sad Mac didn't get any ultra-minor buffs (Like a slightly faster FAF frame on UTilt and FTilt, make it harder to SDI out of the Rapid Jab.) That's all.

I agree with this fully. Maybe Sheik needs a little touch ups here and there, but I think any more huge nerfs on any characters is really unnecessary. Focus on building up the not-so-great characters rather than striking down the already good ones.

Also, making it harder to SDI out of Mac's rapid jab is something I really want, as minor as it is.

 

[earla]

ha.. would love it if mac got a buff for once rite.

i mean dealing with people platform camping is a tournament deal breaker for mac sadly.

some buff ideas i have are... maybe

- less landing lag on aerials so we can risk jumping in the air to bring them to the ground.
- DA fsmash increased shield damage so we can actually break shields.
- b reverse on neutral b could be neat to give us another option to land.
- NAIR being +2 on hit instead of -1 which is ridiculous.
- ooo if KO punch meter built up faster when we hit the opponent instead of building up fast mainly when we take hits which positions us poorly.

ideas... can only dream hey

 

[jet56]

just give me less lag on my aerials and i would be set. only thing missing personally for me.

 

[Rekzius]

just give me less lag on my aerials and i would be set. only thing missing personally for me.

I don`t quite see how that would help him that much, i mean his aerial do auto cancel on short hop. Would be cool to see mac to falling up air combos tho.

If anthing i would like to see:
- The jab beeing fixed.
- Second hit of f tilt getting a bigger hit box (Hate it when the first one conects and then they bounce away before the second one)
- A reliable throw combo
- Down tilt to up b being a true combo and not DI based.
- up tilt getting less knockback, so you can actualy combo with it
- Getting back the nerf in 1.0.4

 

[Rekzius]

For some reason that post got postet twice, so i am replacing it with this :v

 

[Zoramine Fae]

Thought I'd give my take on some of your ideas

ha.. would love it if mac got a buff for once rite.

i mean dealing with people platform camping is a tournament deal breaker for mac sadly.

some buff ideas i have are... maybe

- less landing lag on aerials so we can risk jumping in the air to bring them to the ground.
- DA fsmash increased shield damage so we can actually break shields.
- b reverse on neutral b could be neat to give us another option to land.
- NAIR being +2 on hit instead of -1 which is ridiculous.
- ooo if KO punch meter built up faster when we hit the opponent instead of building up fast mainly when we take hits which positions us poorly.

ideas... can only dream hey

- I think the landing lag is manegable to all of them barring Up Air, which looks like it shouldn't have that much anyways. If you are using Mac properly, you won't have to worry about its endlag. Mainly because all of them AC after a short hop.
- It's already safe as hell and nearly breaks full shields at maximum charge. If your opponent shields for even half a second before hitting, due to the hitstun they are indefinitely dead. Mainly because Neutral B is so f*cking strong.
- Could have sworn you could B-Reverse it before. Could be a good option against Sheik against needle spam and Fireball spam vs the Plumbers, but otherwise a really minor buff.
- Added hitstun over the +2 and it'd be golden. And giving it a bit more KB Growth, i.e. not a ****ty move, would be nice.
- Not that this means anything, but I regularly get KO Punch ready before 80% because of how even the match becomes once my opponent gets one combo. While I would LOVE this buff, its uneccessary to an already rather great move in its own right.
EDIT: K, like a minute later. KO Punch doesn't need to be earned earlier, having an almost gaurenteed instant kill attack against any opponent below 30% within 30 seconds? No thank you.

I don`t quite see how that would help him that much, i mean his aerial do auto cancel on short hop. Would be cool to see mac to falling up air combos tho.

If anthing i would like to see:
- The jab beeing fixed.
- Second hit of f tilt getting a bigger hit box (Hate it when the first one conects and then they bounce away before the second one)
- A reliable throw combo
- Down tilt to up b being a true combo and not DI based.
- up tilt getting less knockback, so you can actualy combo with it
- Getting back the nerf in 1.0.4

- The Rapid Jab? If so, Yes please.
- So, like how lots of attacks have that sort of radius surrounding the actual attack to give it bigger hitboxes? that'd be fine. Although just reducing the SDI multipliers would make the issue resolved as well, since that probably is part of the problem. That or you are spacing it poorly.
- DThrow into some attacks would be nice. Give it knockback like Robin's Down Throw and buff its FAF frame... Ah, the dream.
- Not sure if I agree with this one, just because with the buff above it might make Mac a bit...Uh, too frustrating to fight against.
- YES PLEASE THANK YOU GOD
- I don't think anyone doesn't want this these days, except for the Little Mac raging FG scrubs who believe him to be the absolute best character ever.
- I'd love to see it too. Mac has gimpable enough recovery as is.

 

[TheLegendaryFoxFire]

Thought I'd give my take on some of your ideas




- I think the landing lag is manegable to all of them barring Up Air, which looks like it shouldn't have that much anyways. If you are using Mac properly, you won't have to worry about its endlag. Mainly because all of them AC after a short hop.
- It's already safe as hell and nearly breaks full shields at maximum charge. If your opponent shields for even half a second before hitting, due to the hitstun they are indefinitely dead. Mainly because Neutral B is so f*cking strong.
- Could have sworn you could B-Reverse it before. Could be a good option against Sheik against needle spam and Fireball spam vs the Plumbers, but otherwise a really minor buff.
- Added hitstun over the +2 and it'd be golden. And giving it a bit more KB Growth, i.e. not a ****ty move, would be nice.
- Not that this means anything, but I regularly get KO Punch ready before 80% because of how even the match becomes once my opponent gets one combo. While I would LOVE this buff, its uneccessary to an already rather great move in its own right.
EDIT: K, like a minute later. KO Punch doesn't need to be earned earlier, having an almost gaurenteed instant kill attack against any opponent below 30% within 30 seconds? No thank you.




- The Rapid Jab? If so, Yes please.
- So, like how lots of attacks have that sort of radius surrounding the actual attack to give it bigger hitboxes? that'd be fine. Although just reducing the SDI multipliers would make the issue resolved as well, since that probably is part of the problem. That or you are spacing it poorly.
- DThrow into some attacks would be nice. Give it knockback like Robin's Down Throw and buff its FAF frame... Ah, the dream.
- Not sure if I agree with this one, just because with the buff above it might make Mac a bit...Uh, too frustrating to fight against.
- YES PLEASE THANK YOU GOD
- I don't think anyone doesn't want this these days, except for the Little Mac raging FG scrubs who believe him to be the absolute best character ever.
- I'd love to see it too. Mac has gimpable enough recovery as is.

I would love it so much if Little Mac got a KO Confirm off of his Down Throw to Up B. He has Down-Tilt to Up B but that is not always safe to do.