The PSI Powered Youth: Game Play General

[Luco]

I've reflected most of mega-man's specials before. I'm not sure if his smashes can be reflected (I think Villager's bowling ball can though, not sure) but I know most of them can be absorbed. :o

 

[Tikao]

things ness can reflect (regarding megaman)

fsmash, leafshield (down-b?) when thrown, that sticky bomb (side-b?), metal blades (neutral-b?), jab projectiles (it is like jab, dashattack and nair right?)

I'm not sure about uair and dair, if you're able to reflect it, then it should still fly in its normal pattern (up uair, down dair obviously)
but megaman could get hit by that in theory (but it won't hit him unless someone else kicks him into it fast enough)
you could test that with friendly fire off and a teammate

if it can hit the teammate, then the move is reflected, but since it can't hit megaman, and it can hit teammates regardless of that with friendly fire on, this shouldn't help you anyway

 

[Eagleye893]

One time I reflected an Aerial PK-Fire and it went back along the angle that it traveled (down-left > reflect > up-right). Does that mean the bat reflects the motion of projectiles entirely? in previous games, the PK Fire would go from down-left to down-right.

 

[Tikao]

hmm then it seems to count vertikal movement of projectiles into the movement after getting reflected, so a megaman dair should travel upwards, if it is reflectable ... if it does that for every projectile, but it should

 

[Luco]

One time I reflected an Aerial PK-Fire and it went back along the angle that it traveled (down-left > reflect > up-right). Does that mean the bat reflects the motion of projectiles entirely? in previous games, the PK Fire would go from down-left to down-right.

Yep, this is confirmed. Ness' bat hits projectiles back at the exact trajectory they were hit to him. You'll notice a tendency for Gordos to get hit at awkward angles using this knowledge.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Yes, megaman uair and dair are reflectable by any sort of reflector.

 

[kennypu]

things ness can reflect (regarding megaman)

fsmash, leafshield (down-b?) when thrown, that sticky bomb (side-b?), metal blades (neutral-b?), jab projectiles (it is like jab, dashattack and nair right?)

I'm not sure about uair and dair, if you're able to reflect it, then it should still fly in its normal pattern (up uair, down dair obviously)
but megaman could get hit by that in theory (but it won't hit him unless someone else kicks him into it fast enough)
you could test that with friendly fire off and a teammate

if it can hit the teammate, then the move is reflected, but since it can't hit megaman, and it can hit teammates regardless of that with friendly fire on, this shouldn't help you anyway

I don't know about uair (I would imagine it can), but i did see a vid of mario caping megaman's dair

 

[Meccs]

Fun with Fair
PS youre gonna have to zoom out in the tab. to see the whole .gif it's really zoomed in for some reason. dont watch on your phone. i guess this is what happens when you upload to gfycat straight from your iphone.

 

[JML]

Fun with Fair
PS youre gonna have to zoom out in the tab. to see the whole .gif it's really zoomed in for some reason. dont watch on your phone. i guess this is what happens when you upload to gfycat straight from your iphone.

Wish I saved my replays. Had a ness mirror fight and this seemed to be half of our matches. So much Fair edgeguard.

 

[kennypu]

Fun with Fair
PS youre gonna have to zoom out in the tab. to see the whole .gif it's really zoomed in for some reason. dont watch on your phone. i guess this is what happens when you upload to gfycat straight from your iphone.

you can do that on many characters with mostly vertical upbs (marth, lucina, captain, etc.), I've been doing it a lot

 

[Meccs]

Fair really is the greatest

 

[Eagleye893]

How do people feel about PKT offstage as an edgeguard? The property it has to pass through characters for half a second makes it decently reliable for us to recover (if we don't hit the opponent), and can help to mix up options between rising BAir/FAir/NAir/UAir, especially against characters who have tough horizontal recovery options.

 

[Luco]

I feel like i'm spreading mis-information by saying 'half a second', cause I mean in literal terms it's much less, it was just easier to say it that way. I wonder how long exactly it is. If they intercept it half-way through its arc it dies, I know that from experience. :'(

 

[thesage]

Ness has incredible edeguarding moves in this game. Mecks that really is a good demo of fair.

 

[Eagleye893]

It's not so much mis-information about the PKT. I feel like that time where it passes through enemies can be used effectively in a lot of places, especially because once it passes through an enemy it takes a bit of extra time before they can eat the thunder. I found that it's bad offstage, because other moves do the job better and put yourself at less risk of death.

It could be useful onstage to try and get a double-hit by circling the PKT around them or around yourself to fish for PKT2's, but right now It's best when it doesn't pass through because it's difficult to tell the range where it stops going through enemies.

 

[Speculator]

Does anyone else find Ness as a particular disadvantage when fighting online? The lag screws up my recovery more often than not, I can't get the hang of controlling PK thunder in advance. Also, Sonic stomps all over me.

 

[Luco]

Nono what I mean is, saying that property lasts for half a second when in reality it's only like 1/3 of a second or less. I just don't want people to think that's the norm and then blame people because their PKT died halfway through a recovery. =P

I'm not denying that it can be used effectively, just that I feel using 'half a second' to represent its 'invincibility' time is a bit... well something we shouldn't really do too much unless everyone knows that it isn't actually half a second, which there may be situations where peeps won't. :3

 

[Tikao]

i just remembered something i found a while ago, most people probadly know that already, but i haven't red anything aboiut that here so I'll just post it

Ness' down-throw deals only 4% damage to GaW, he seems to be too flat when you dthrow him, so the actual throw (the 4%) deals the damage, but the hitboxes in the throw don't hit GaW
you can give GaW a super mushroom and he'll get hit by the entire throw
even a jigglypuff with a poison mushroom gets hit by the entire throw, so this bug only works on GaW

this could actually be realy bad for the MU with our most important throw dealing nearly no damage

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

GW has always been weird with down throws. Perhaps this is intended.

 

[Luco]

i just remembered something i found a while ago, most people probadly know that already, but i haven't red anything aboiut that here so I'll just post it

Ness' down-throw deals only 4% damage to GaW, he seems to be too flat when you dthrow him, so the actual throw (the 4%) deals the damage, but the hitboxes in the throw don't hit GaW
you can give GaW a super mushroom and he'll get hit by the entire throw
even a jigglypuff with a poison mushroom gets hit by the entire throw, so this bug only works on GaW

this could actually be realy bad for the MU with our most important throw dealing nearly no damage

I've noticed this in my matches against G&W too. It means we have to use Fthrow most of the time.

But G&W is a fine MU for us now. He's one of the lightest characters in the game (like, 3rd lightest or something), so our Bthrow kills like, below 100% hahaha. XD

Not the -2 bordering on -3 it was in Brawl thank GAWSH.

 

[yoshi8984]

Just a warning against Greninja...

When recovering, be careful, because you know his Up-B (Aqua Jet or something)? The water from that can push you away... And I feel like it's gonna be more annoying than FLUDD. Plus we don't have Magnet Stalling anymore. X__x

 

[Luco]

Ahh guys, quite a few people have commented on the PSI Magnet and it's 'nerf' that it delays the healing. Most people would also mention they didn't know why this was the case, that the projectile swirled around Ness for a bit before healing, but i'm beginning to think I know why.

I was at the stage discussion thread and noticed someone posted a gif with Rosalina and Luma on Corneria using GP as the lasers were shot from the Great Fox cannon, and the same thing happened as what happens when Ness does it. I don't actually think the glitch works because of the swirly effect in itself so much as the fact that things like GP and PSI magnet are changing the direction of the lasers in weird ways and so it glitches out. But it was a suspcion i'd had for a while that Ness' PSI and Rosalina's GP were modeled the same way/used some of the same numbers and the video reminded me of it because of how similarly the lasers looked as they were getting sucked in by GP.

Long story short, I think the reason Ness' PSI Magnet swirls the object around him is because his Magnet and Rosaluma's GP were based around each other this time.

 

[PSIBoy]

Umm, hello? Anyone here? I guess I'll find out...

So anyway, umm, how about we discuss Vs ? I haven't played this matchup yet, nor seen it in video, so I can't really say right now.

 

[Luco]

I think the MU would be pretty close, possibly even. I find Nair seems to be really good in this MU but I haven't played it at a high enough level to know just yet. :/

 

[PSIBoy]

Yeah, pretty inexperienced with vs Sonic in general, even if I main him along with Ness and a few others... But Sonic players in general are few and far in between and good ones are even rarer.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

I fought a solid Sonic a few days ago. Nair beats out spin dash if I recall correctly, which is super nice cause he loved to approach me with it. I think I'd agree that's it's fairly even.

 

[neomadgic]

Sonic isn't too bad to fight. I hate that it is really hard to land a hit on him since he's always running. If you've never fought a sonic before, his shenanigans might be a problem. But once you get it down, the fight becomes a lot easier. Sonic kinda lacks kill moves so that's a plus

 

[Luco]

Oh, oh oh oh guys, Rosalina in wii U can't control Luma when she's been grabbed. OUR WORST MATCH-UP IS ACTUALLY OKAY NOW. <3

 

[Elegant]

Does anyone else find Ness as a particular disadvantage when fighting online? The lag screws up my recovery more often than not, I can't get the hang of controlling PK thunder in advance. Also, Sonic stomps all over me.

I'm pretty sure its been like this in all online game interations of Smash. =(

 

[PSIBoy]

Oh, oh oh oh guys, Rosalina in wii U can't control Luma when she's been grabbed. OUR WORST MATCH-UP IS ACTUALLY OKAY NOW. <3

Other than her down-b gimp, we now stand a fighting chance it seems like.

 

[Tikao]

if those 2 luma nerfs (can't attack while grabbed, luma's respawn time is 13s) happen, then ness is a potential top5 charakter without this MU being super bad

 

[Blubolouis]

Hey, I'm a ness secondary. I found something pretty neat with ness, it might already be known though. You can cancel PKfire while running off a ledge. By itself, it's useless, since you just end up going down from the edge like you normally would. However it also works with a reverse PKfire (basically, just like a grounded reverse PKfire, but so close to the ledge that you end up falling off). This basically allows you to run off the ledge while facing backwards. If you don't input an action very quickly, Ness will grab the edge if there's one; if you buffer a bair you'll run off bair, while facing the outside.

Another thing I found, barely useful: if you full hop PKfire and Uair before touching the ground, you won't suffer any lag from the PKfire (the Uair hitbox doesn't come out, and you don't suffer its landing lag). Still punishable, but it's another option apart from the slow double-jump or equally punishable Nair.

 

[PSIBoy]

Hey, I'm a ness secondary. I found something pretty neat with ness, it might already be known though. You can cancel PKfire while running off a ledge. By itself, it's useless, since you just end up going down from the edge like you normally would. However it also works with a reverse PKfire (basically, just like a grounded reverse PKfire, but so close to the ledge that you end up falling off). This basically allows you to run off the ledge while facing backwards. If you don't input an action very quickly, Ness will grab the edge if there's one; if you buffer a bair you'll run off bair, while facing the outside.

Another thing I found, barely useful: if you full hop PKfire and Uair before touching the ground, you won't suffer any lag from the PKfire (the Uair hitbox doesn't come out, and you don't suffer its landing lag). Still punishable, but it's another option apart from the slow double-jump or equally punishable Nair.

Interesting... I'll have to try this some time, and thank you for sharing. But how much will this impact Ness's metagame?

 

[ilysm]

With regards to the RosaLuma info, I am ecstatic. The gravity gimp is still so filthy I feel the need to vomit whenever I see it, but as long as that's pretty much the only extraordinarily awful thing in the matchup, works for me.

With regards to the PK Fire cancel tech, did anyone see the video a few pages back with the auto-canceling PK Fire? Has anyone had an opportunity to play around with that yet? The angle at which aerial PK Fire is a great spacing tool, provided you don't get punished for using it. I hope there are ways around the ridiculous endlag.

 

[Luco]

With regards to the RosaLuma info, I am ecstatic. The gravity gimp is still so filthy I feel the need to vomit whenever I see it, but as long as that's pretty much the only extraordinarily awful thing in the matchup, works for me.

With regards to the PK Fire cancel tech, did anyone see the video a few pages back with the auto-canceling PK Fire? Has anyone had an opportunity to play around with that yet? The angle at which aerial PK Fire is a great spacing tool, provided you don't get punished for using it. I hope there are ways around the ridiculous endlag.

Well it might not be the case now, we're not sure.

We'll have to wait for the wii U version before we can really tell.

 

[Tikao]

with rage mode, vectoring being gone and side blastzones being closer to the stage in the wiiu version (i actually don't know if this is confirmed, but heared it often and it looks like it to me), Ness' bthrow might actually be buffed

 

[Luco]

with rage mode, vectoring being gone and side blastzones being closer to the stage in the wiiu version (i actually don't know if this is confirmed, but heared it often and it looks like it to me), Ness' bthrow might actually be buffed

I was versing Shaya's Falco, I was Ness at 140%, he was at 80%, we were both on last stock, I grabbed him near the middle of Ferox and Bthrew him and it almost killed him right there and then.

Now imagine this on wii U <3

 

[Tikao]

i just saw ness consistently killing people with bthrow at around 80-90%% with ragemode around 150%, makes him a bit like a lucario on last stock, he can have 170% and the opponent 50% and you just need to deal a little bit damage and hit that grab to turn around a match

ragemode makes ness a beast

 

[Earthbound360]

With regards to the RosaLuma info, I am ecstatic. The gravity gimp is still so filthy I feel the need to vomit whenever I see it, but as long as that's pretty much the only extraordinarily awful thing in the matchup, works for me.

With regards to the PK Fire cancel tech, did anyone see the video a few pages back with the auto-canceling PK Fire? Has anyone had an opportunity to play around with that yet? The angle at which aerial PK Fire is a great spacing tool, provided you don't get punished for using it. I hope there are ways around the ridiculous endlag.

PKF lag cancelling works in this game exactly the way it works in Brawl. The only difference now is that you odon't want to lag cancel it with an air dodge since air dodges have landing lag now. Use dair instead.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with PKF lag cancelling from Brawl, it's a matter of jumping, using PKF, and using dair before hitting the ground. This changes Ness' land animation to a much less laggy one.

 

[The 0ne]

I've tested it, and yes, his grab range is longer.

Also, his PSI Vacuum custom, the one that doesn't absorb projectiles but has a vortex for fighters and deals 5 or 10 damage? It's ****ing amazing on characters that don't have a thing Ness can absorb with regular Magnet. The vortex is very big, very fast, and the 10% hitbox can kill around 190%, and it's great for ledgeguarding.