The Roy of Brawl?

[Nanaki]

Hello Ike forum,

This may seem like a no-brainer question at first glance - who do you think plays/is the most like Melee's Roy in SSBB?

I figured that most people would respond with "Ike, duh!" since they may seem like the "stronger, slower Marth" in their respective games (my friends mostly responded this way). Now, we all know that Ike is most certainly NOT a slower, stronger Marth, as they have vastly different movesets and play completely differently. I also feel that Roy played very differently from Marth as well, and was definitely NOT a "slower, stronger Marth", as he was actually faster, lighter, and had less KO potential excluding 2 moves (fsmash and flare blade).

So, given all that, I thought I'd ask you guys first, as most people would probably say Ike anyway. Who plays/feels the most like Roy in Brawl? As a former Roy main, just thought I'd get some outside input.

Thanks!

 

[__V]

Marth. Ike isn't even close to the way Marth plays.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Hello Ike forum,

This may seem like a no-brainer question at first glance - who do you think plays/is the most like Melee's Roy in SSBB?

I figured that most people would respond with "Ike, duh!" since they may seem like the "stronger, slower Marth" in their respective games (my friends mostly responded this way). Now, we all know that Ike is most certainly NOT a slower, stronger Marth, as they have vastly different movesets and play completely differently. I also feel that Roy played very differently from Marth as well, and was definitely NOT a "slower, stronger Marth", as he was actually faster, lighter, and had less KO potential excluding 2 moves (fsmash and flare blade).

So, given all that, I thought I'd ask you guys first, as most people would probably say Ike anyway. Who plays/feels the most like Roy in Brawl? As a former Roy main, just thought I'd get some outside input.

Thanks!

Techincally...Marth has a move set close to Roy's...not Ike.


I swear this question makes me want to kick babies.

 

[Rykoshet]

Not at all, roy's fsmash was his main KO move, if you fsmashed even close to the amount of times a roy did in melee as ike you'd find yourself getting 3 stocked fast.

 

[gritsniper]

lol ike is nothing like roy. if anything its marth since he kept his old moveset

 

[Duker]

I think all of you are missing the point. Obviously based on moveset Marth is the most alike, but if you look at his userbase, Ike is almost exactly the same. They're both in the middle of middle tier, they have alot of n00b-users (sorry if I offend anyone, but it's true X/) and in general is "Not bad" characters.

 

[Rykoshet]

You could say that about most mid-tier characters. Just admit that people see it that way because theyre both secondary FE characters in brawl.

 

[Duker]

There's nothing to admit, since the thread is about comparing the two "secondary FE characters". My point stays true, now move on.

 

[4Serial]

Ike is nothing like Roy.
He's not man enough.
He fights for his friends.
And his "fire" is not real ph!r3.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I think all of you are missing the point. Obviously based on moveset Marth is the most alike, but if you look at his userbase, Ike is almost exactly the same. They're both in the middle of middle tier, they have alot of n00b-users (sorry if I offend anyone, but it's true X/) and in general is "Not bad" characters.

...Roy was low tier.

 

[Nanaki]

Ike is nothing like Roy.
He's not man enough.
He fights for his friends.
And his "fire" is not real ph!r3.

ph!r3 ftw!

I think all of you are missing the point. Obviously based on moveset Marth is the most alike, but if you look at his userbase, Ike is almost exactly the same. They're both in the middle of middle tier, they have alot of n00b-users (sorry if I offend anyone, but it's true X/) and in general is "Not bad" characters.

I agree with most of this. Seeing a GOOD Roy was a rare thing; I only remember Ken and Azen being any good. Many new players were drawn to Roy because of his leet ph!r3, while many new users are drawn to Ike because of Aether, Eruption and his huge fsmash. Both are adequate in the hands of good players, and have some good techs, but aren't going to touch top tier anytime soon.

You could say that about most mid-tier characters. Just admit that people see it that way because theyre both secondary FE characters in brawl.

I think that probably has something to do with it, too.

I'm glad this at least stirred up some debate.

 

[Duker]

...Roy was low tier.

Really? Oh well, I was fairly sure they were the same on the tiers, guess I was wrong then . I never cared for the Melee tiers.

 

[e105beta]

Move wise, total difference.
Play wise, toal difference.
Tierwise, I'd assume they are about the same, but screw tiers anyways.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Move wise, total difference.
Play wise, toal difference.
Tierwise, I'd assume they are about the same, but screw tiers anyways.

O_O I thought you left for good. XD

 

[Fatmanonice]

Move wise, total difference.
Play wise, toal difference.
Tierwise, I'd assume they are about the same, but screw tiers anyways.

I find it funny how generally people who main low tier characters say tiers don't matter while people who main high tier characters never shut up about how they believe tiers mean everything. I still think Ike is top of low at best.

 

[Newuser12345215]

Actually, Ike and Roy do have some things very similar:

1. Eruption and Flare Blade - Kind of similar in the sense that fully charged, it's like a 1 hit KO.

2. Counter - Both counters are slow but more powerful than Marth's.

 

[__V]

Roy doesn't fight for his friends. That's all the difference we need.

 

[Collective of Bears]

Roy doesn't fight for his friends. That's all the difference we need.

Not to mention you'll get sympathy from him, unlike Ike.

 

[Nanaki]

Actually, Ike and Roy do have some things very similar:

1. Eruption and Flare Blade - Kind of similar in the sense that fully charged, it's like a 1 hit KO.

2. Counter - Both counters are slow but more powerful than Marth's.

True enough. Both eruption and Flare Blade are pretty good edgeguard moves as well, and are some of the better aerial approaches for their respective characters from a distance.

 

[Roager]

Roy =/= Ike. Roy used a single-handed longsword. Ike uses a two-handed sword, even though he uses it like a b*stard sword. The similarities between the two are limited to: from FE, slower than Marth, explosive B moves, tier placement.

 

[Cloud Cleaver]

Ike's eruption is NOT a OHKO. It can't kill from 0% like Flare Blade could.

Having only played a little with Marth/Roy in Melee and with Brawl Marth only sparingly, I think the new Marth incarnation feels a lot like the old Roy. The swings of his sword lack the flowing grace and speed they had in Melee and feel more laggy at the end...just like Roy's did.

Ike plays nothing like Marth at all.

 

[BurtonEarny]

I find it funny how generally people who main low tier characters say tiers don't matter while people who main high tier characters never shut up about how they believe tiers mean everything. I still think Ike is top of low at best.

Actually, my friend mains a low tier character and uses it as an out when he loses. I main Peach and dont really talk about tiers. I dont use Peach much against my friends anymore because they complain when I beat them.(they complain alot lol) I use yoshi and DDD alot now which are polar opposite on a "tier" list. Its what you make of it I guess.

Oh my input to be on topic. I think the only reason people compair them is because of their b moves and that they are from the same franchise... Really they aren't similar at all.

 

[payasofobia]

They arent similar, at all.
roy's B was actually usefull, roy's forward smash was more usefull, roy is a lot faster than roy, and he lacks ike's killing power.

but if we compare them in their overall rankings ( not tiers, since the SBR still havent done it) they are similar, on the six part tier lists, roy was always on the lower half of the middle tier, its when they made the tier lists have 5 parts when roy became low tier

 

[Buddahmonk]

Tiers are based on opinions, because basically if you got a bunch of noobs together and gave them all different characters then tiers seem like they exsist because alot of characters are easier to spam or to get around and figure out. Tiers do not exsist in the world of good gaming, any charater is good if you know how to use em. Tiers r 4 Queers.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Tiers do not exsist in the world of good gaming, any charater is good if you know how to use em.

But the official tier lists are created by the best ****ing players. And that argument is so easy to destroy because it's been killed so many times. That is a statement made from a lack of information and understanding of the game.


Tiers are based on the idea that the character is played at the highest tech level, and hat the players are of equal skill. Go to a tourney and ask around as to why your precious ****ty characters aren't winning.

 

[Nanaki]

Ike's eruption is NOT a OHKO. It can't kill from 0% like Flare Blade could.

Having only played a little with Marth/Roy in Melee and with Brawl Marth only sparingly, I think the new Marth incarnation feels a lot like the old Roy. The swings of his sword lack the flowing grace and speed they had in Melee and feel more laggy at the end...just like Roy's did.

Ike plays nothing like Marth at all.

I can very much see truth in this, as well. He does seem a bit more laggy, but all I usually see when I play against him are a ton of SH fairs.

But the official tier lists are created by the best ****ing players. And that argument is so easy to destroy because it's been killed so many times. That is a statement made from a lack of information and understanding of the game.


Tiers are based on the idea that the character is played at the highest tech level, and hat the players are of equal skill. Go to a tourney and ask around as to why your precious ****ty characters aren't winning.

Don't you just love how every discussion turns into a tier argument at one point or another on these forums?

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

-facepalm-
(Marth iz A KLONE!! YU CANT GET ENY SIMILAR THAN THAT!)

 

[Rutger]

Don't you just love how every discussion turns into a tier argument at one point or another on these forums?

Blame the people that think tiers don't matter, they keep using the same argument which does not prove their point because it is a fact everyone knows and it has nothing to do with tiers. Tiers are something they will need to accept if they want to continue to take part in competitive smash.

As for the topic, Ike is nothing like Roy. Ike is a powerhouse whereas Roy is relatively week. Ike can kill with most moves reliably and Roy could only kill reliably with Fsmash. Roy's Fsmash is useful, Ike's, not so much. Roy's air game is not good, Ike's is. Roy's B attacks are more useful to him. I believe Roy's air game was faster then Marth's with L-canceling, Ike is not faster then Marth in any way.

And as a side note, Ike can't kill Jigglypuff at 0% on certain stages with upB like Roy can. I miss that.

 

[Nanaki]

Blame the people that think tiers don't matter, they keep using the same argument which does not prove their point because it is a fact everyone knows and it has nothing to do with tiers. Tiers are something they will need to accept if they want to continue to take part in competitive smash.

I prefer not to take sides on the topic. I think tiers certainly exist and matter, but I don't think they're as impossible to overcome as some elitists tend to think, so I'm somewhere in the middle.

As for the topic, Ike is nothing like Roy. Ike is a powerhouse whereas Roy is relatively week. Ike can kill with most moves reliably and Roy could only kill reliably with Fsmash. Roy's Fsmash is useful, Ike's, not so much. Roy's air game is not good, Ike's is. Roy's B attacks are more useful to him. I believe Roy's air game was faster then Marth's with L-canceling, Ike is not faster then Marth in any way.

All very good points, and I agree with pretty much all of them. Man, if only brawl Marth had ph!r3...and didn't look and talk like such a girl...

Ah hell, I just want Roy back.

And as a side note, Ike can't kill Jigglypuff at 0% on certain stages with upB like Roy can. I miss that.

I think we all miss that. Poor Jiggs, he just didn't stand a chance at Termina against Roy...

Ahhhh, the power of ph!r3....

 

[Rykoshet]

I want roy back too, so every moron who uses ike's fsmash like it isnt a bad idea can get the **** off the character.

 

[Rutger]

I prefer not to take sides on the topic. I think tiers certainly exist and matter, but I don't think they're as impossible to overcome as some elitists tend to think, so I'm somewhere in the middle.

I know I should not say this and should let the subject die, but I really want to say this.
None of the so called "elitist" ever say that no amount of skill can overcome tiers, tiers are simply trying to answer "what if two people of equal skill fight with different characters, which character is most likely to win?" The argument of better skill is pointless because tiers are working with equally skilled people.

Edit: I feel I did not word it right, let me fix that. "In a tournament filled with every character, everyone is of equal skill, what character is most likely to win the tournament?"
That sounds better.

 

[Nanaki]

I know I should not say this and should let the subject die, but I really want to say this.
None of the so called "elitist" ever say that no amount of skill can overcome tiers, tiers are simply trying to answer "what if two people of equal skill fight with different characters, which character is most likely to win?" The argument of better skill is pointless because tiers are working with equally skilled people.

Edit: I feel I did not word it right, let me fix that. "In a tournament filled with every character, everyone is of equal skill, what character is most likely to win the tournament?"
That sounds better.

Good enough for me. I agree that arguments about skill have no place in tier arguments, and I agree with you on the purpose of tiers.

Yay! Problem solved!

 

[DarkRunner00]

I'm just gonna join in.

Ike is the Roy I didn't want... and so I don't like Ike... but I do play as him because he's fun. Just like Roy was.

The thing is... Roy's metagame was still very much based on Marth's melee metagame therefore... though he was slow ***, couldn't jump (but SH was easier), couldn't Dolphin Slash, overall a bad character... when Marth's metagame changed to Ken's (and the fact Ken held Roy title, until someone say who took that title... Roy_R?) Besides the point...

Ike plays so differently... I can't even SHFF with Fair or Uair since the autocancel before the hitboxes come out (Uair does come out but it's... just not useful (like Marth's Uair -> Utilt setup)...

Correction: before anyone flames my insufficient knowledge... SHFF Fair is possibly but laggy and unsafe... It's great for distance... but if misses... its just like Aether... punishable (like all/most of his attacks)
QD?

Yeh, Eruption for Flare Blade... Awesome attacks... and they both suck (causing downward momentum)

Anyway... Ike fights for his friends... and he has an American voice actor... and he bugs the **** out of me... yet He's fun to play

 

[Newuser12345215]

I had an idea for "luigified" Roy in Brawl that I posted a long time ago, anyway I would have liked if Roy stayed too.

Also, his abilities are changed to make it more "fun". No balance was put into consideration for this idea.

My idea for the new luigified Roy(Note - I only thought of changing his B moves, nothing else) :

1. B - Flare Blade: Flare Blade will be the same as in SSBM, where Roy slashes his sword instead of stabs it like Marth does in SSBB.

New additions to Flare Blade:

a. Flare Blade now releases a "shockwave"(similar to kirby's cutter Up B move), the shockwave travels as far as the platform on FH but the damage(NOT knockback) gets weaker as it travels.

Shockwave basically means Flare Blade is now ranged. The "Shockwave" version of Flare Blade's Knockback is about only 50% as strong as if it was just a straight up hit.

Shockwaves move at about the speed of Falco's laser projectile, fast but not that fast.

b. Flare Blade can instantly release 3 "shockwaves" by tapping "B" 3 times quickly. The shockwaves are released at different angles. First shockwave is released horizontally, next one is released slightly upward, last one is released more upward.

Here's a picture:

.

Again it can INSTANTLY do it by tapping B 3 times fast, but the disadvantage is that it damages Roy by about(3/4th) the same amount the shockwave damages for, it also stuns him for 2-3 seconds after use.

So if each Shockwave does 20% damage(for example), it'll damage Roy by 15% damage.

Shockwaves can be shielded and dodged btw.

2. Up B - Blazer Similar to the old Blazer, except it can now:

a. Blazer can now be charged, the longer you charge, the better range, damage, speed(of the attack), and knockback.

Uncharged, Blazer has about 75% of the range of a regular Dolphin Slash and 50% the speed. It has the same damage and knockback though.

Fully charged (takes 4 seconds to fully charge), it has 170% the range of Dolphin Slash, about 80% the speed of Dolphin Slash, and does 200% damage and knockback of a regular Dolphin Slash.

Blazer can be held charged for as long as you want(like Quick Draw), but it will be fully charged at 4 seconds, it doesn't get stronger after that.

b. Roy can now move/run/jump while charging Blazer. Roy can also dash while charging Blazer, he can also turn.

Basically, Roy can move as freely as he want while charging Blazer.

3. Side B - Double-Edge Dance - Actually not sure what to change. Possible change:

It has a different combo/slashes than Marth's, simple change and maybe his sword is on fire when doing DED.


4. Down B - Counter: Too lazy to think of an idea so no change.

So, the only real change in this idea is just Blazer and Flare Blade.

 

[Sup Dawg]

I wish Roy was in Brawl. Because while Marth has speed and Ike has power, Marth is fairly weak and Ike is fairly slow. If Roy was in Brawl, he would be well balanced, and therefore take the edge off choosing Marth over Ike and vice versa. And the above post has me curious as to what his moveset changes would be...

 

[Nanaki]

I wish Roy was in Brawl. Because while Marth has speed and Ike has power, Marth is fairly weak and Ike is fairly slow. If Roy was in Brawl, he would be well balanced, and therefore take the edge off choosing Marth over Ike and vice versa. And the above post has me curious as to what his moveset changes would be...

I'm with you, man.

It's weird to me that they took out some clones and left others in, modifying them slightly (e.g. Ganon, Falco, Luigi - but they couldn't take Wigi out). Weirder still is that they took out Mewtwo, who wasn't a clone in the first place and had a cool moveset, despite being really, really crappy. Even weirder YET to me is that they added yet another space animal clone (I know, I know, he plays differently than the others - he's still a clone) when that series isn't nearly as popular as some others.

I'm probably just uneducated on the matter, and there have probably been posts with reasons why they did these things. It just still seems weird to me.

 

[Sup Dawg]

I'm with you, man.

It's weird to me that they took out some clones and left others in, modifying them slightly (e.g. Ganon, Falco, Luigi - but they couldn't take Wigi out). Weirder still is that they took out Mewtwo, who wasn't a clone in the first place and had a cool moveset, despite being really, really crappy. Even weirder YET to me is that they added yet another space animal clone (I know, I know, he plays differently than the others - he's still a clone) when that series isn't nearly as popular as some others.

I'm probably just uneducated on the matter, and there have probably been posts with reasons why they did these things. It just still seems weird to me.

I know what you mean. MewTwo did have a unique moveset, and although he was a crappy character to use, I'm sure that Brawl MewTwo would have had some major upgrades done.

I mean, I know Lucario is supposedly MewTwo's replacment, but their movesets are entirely different (besides the energy ball attacks), which means choosing one over the other would be a matter of style, and in turn, would allow for more variety to people with a preference for psychic-type characters.

 

[MarthFanatique]

I find it funny how generally people who main low tier characters say tiers don't matter while people who main high tier characters never shut up about how they believe tiers mean everything. I still think Ike is top of low at best.

It's cuz they're cheap-*ss douche bags who only want to win. i.e. People complain about Pit and his godly recovery, etc. and people play him just cuz of that. When I saw him on the Dojo, I wanted to play him simply because he was retro and he looked cool. Tiers my *ss, they mean nothing. Any character can be good; you just need to persevere through.

 

[yellowroy]

roy was way better then ike.he's faster and has more combo's

 

[Nanaki]

I know what you mean. MewTwo did have a unique moveset, and although he was a crappy character to use, I'm sure that Brawl MewTwo would have had some major upgrades done.

I mean, I know Lucario is supposedly MewTwo's replacment, but their movesets are entirely different (besides the energy ball attacks), which means choosing one over the other would be a matter of style, and in turn, would allow for more variety to people with a preference for psychic-type characters.

I completely agree, having them both would have been cool, and not totally unlike having the space animals / lucas + ness, etc. It seems like it would have been easy to buff Mewtwo a bit, I'm not sure why they didn't bother.

Coincidentally, many of your mains + secondaries are similar to mine. We may have to wifi sometime!