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The Royal Archives: Dedede Video and Critique Thread

Xubble

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 14, 2011
Messages
991
Location
Southern IL
I like your Dedede. A couple of things:

Pummel breaking Snake at the edge or dthrowing him is generally better than fthrow. It forces him to double jump / cypher to get back on, and he is most vulnerable when recovering low.

You always used bair when you landed next to him. It's a good move to land with, but try mixing up your landings. B reversed swallow, air dodge, they're all good to land with. It's just he always punished you for bair when you landed cause it became obvious you were gonna do so.

If you hold the control stick down about half way, you can dtilt without having to crouch first. I don't know if you knew that or not, but you almost hit him with it after getting him offstage.

If he's landing close to you, don't run away! He wants you as far away as possible to camp you out. Keep close and space yourself so he never gets a chance to breathe.

Overall, your Dedede isn't bad at all, but you can polish a couple of things.
 

VP_

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
5
Location
Taunton Ma
I like your Dedede. A couple of things:

Pummel breaking Snake at the edge or dthrowing him is generally better than fthrow. It forces him to double jump / cypher to get back on, and he is most vulnerable when recovering low.

You always used bair when you landed next to him. It's a good move to land with, but try mixing up your landings. B reversed swallow, air dodge, they're all good to land with. It's just he always punished you for bair when you landed cause it became obvious you were gonna do so.

If you hold the control stick down about half way, you can dtilt without having to crouch first. I don't know if you knew that or not, but you almost hit him with it after getting him offstage.

If he's landing close to you, don't run away! He wants you as far away as possible to camp you out. Keep close and space yourself so he never gets a chance to breathe.

Overall, your Dedede isn't bad at all, but you can polish a couple of things.
Swallow and airdodge can just get utilted no? I lsuck at trying to land, I usually get grabbed or utilted.

I find I have trouple being close in on snake too. I typical try to just stay outside of grab and in ftilt range and then look for an opening for the grab, be it going in or piviot grabbing a motar slide or a roll.
 

Xubble

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 14, 2011
Messages
991
Location
Southern IL
Swallow counts as a grab, so it gets grab armor if you get the spacing right. Air dodge is just a mixup, but it leads into any other move when landing. Just because utilt is godly doesn't mean you have no options.

The best place for Dedede to be is max ftilt range with the opponent near the ledge. You can just wait and punish any reaction. Snake's DACUS is his panic button, and you can almost always count on it coming when they're pinned down. I like to dash dance as a fake out so they think I'm charging in and get a reaction. If they DACUS, pivot grab. If they use a tilt or anything else, punish with ftilt or whatever's appropriate.
 

DewDaDash

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
1,742
Location
エレクトリッ
Soz I needs me some good critiquing. So Shall we presume? ;)

This MU right here is probably the one I want the most feedback on. Long story short, this was the last time I played MK in friendlies/tourny, before playing Pwii last week https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XklJJ5PhBIc

So as you can imagine, relying on how to play this MU solely off of memory from what happened more than a year ago is bleh..

So heres my set with Pwii https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwAGxwLnFME&feature=relmfu

When I lost I was rather frustrated, rewatching it though im surprised i played better than I pictured after I lost. I need to work on execution for sure though. I seem to rely on fastfall uptilt/d-smash which didnt help me much this set. What are good reliable set ups to kill u guys have?

Oh and heres another vid of me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdv6uks9YFo&feature=relmfu

I was mad tired the entire tourney, less than 2 hrs of sleep, so when you watch these and see the mistakes ^^^^, I know... believe me

Still waiting for more of my sets to be uploaded, but yea watch and enjoy guys :)
 

Exdeath

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Messages
3,006
Location
Florida
You didn't respect Pwii at all (e.g. you tried to quickly get the kill and avoid having him rack up damage on your second stock game 1 and it completely backfired).
 

bubbaking

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
6,895
Location
Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
Alright, I'll tell you what I could see, take from it what you will. If someone notices something wrong or incorrect about this analysis, please let me know. I don't want to impart any wrong information.

0:00 - Good start. Utilt OoS, CG > fthrow, good stuff. However...

0:10 - You dash away from the edge giving up ledge space to Peach. This isn't so bad because you retaliated to her actions at the ledge with a bair that sent her back offstage, but then...

0:15 - Peach fairs underneath the ledge, dropping even further underneath it. I would have taken this chance to quickly grab the ledge. In fact, I would have gone for it the moment I saw Peach falling with a fair underneath the ledge. She still had her float, I believe, so it wasn't a guaranteed kill, but if she was as upB trigger happy as I just saw, you probably would have ledgehogged her earning yourself an extremely early first stock lead. As it went down however, you kind of gave Peach the ledge, even though she put herself into a really bad position and seemed to have all the wrong reflexive reactions for that very situation.

0:18 - OK, interesting call. No one can argue with what you did because you tried to read Peach's action off the ledge and those things are hardly debatable. Reads are intrinsic like that. However, your spacing was all wrong. You were way too close to the ledge to reasonably Inhale anything. A couple steps back would have been fine.

0:21 - Uh oh, you're starting to look like a spot-dodge happy DDD. I used to be like this and it wasn't until someone else criticized me on the habit that I broke out of it. DDD's spot-dodge is broken, but that doesn't mean you should use it all the time. In this particular case, you spot dodged after Peach hit your shield with an fsmash, giving up a perfectly good opportunity to grab her. Peach is one of the more difficult chars to grab reliably. You want to take advantage of every chance you've got.

0:22 - Yeah, you're really spot-dodge/air dodge (AD) happy. Right after the spot dodge, you jump away and AD when a bair would have covered you just fine. Peach can't really challenge our bair (not many chars can) and definitely not when we're retreating with it. I'm telling you right now that if you had baired, you probably would have hit her cleanly because she was chasing after you with a dair while right next to you. Instead, you had to go for a trade, which isn't bad, per se, but you could have received much better rewards.

0:24 - I'm not sure what the Peach did, but it made her land with some lag that you could have punished with a grab. Learn to realize your grab opportunities and nab 'em! Now, you shielded in anticipation of something, which is fine, but your following actions weren't so fine. Peach spot-dodged in front of you and you ran away instead of punishing it. You must realize that everyone is aware of DDD's CG capability and no one wants to be grabbed for big damage. This is one of these subtle things you have to understand and use to your advantage as a DDD main. Read the spot dodge and react. When she landed in front of you with lag, you missed the opportunity to grab. That's fine. Read the subsequent spot-dodge and punish THAT. You can even use your 'fear factor control' to afford yourself chances to utilt the opponent for the kill instead of grabbing them. Unfortunately in this situation, you ran away, jumped, and DJ'd towards her, another puzzling action because it took away your ability to bair and protect yourself, which allowed her to pressure you afterwards.

0:30 - Stop that.....shield...stuff. Bair away and reset the situation. Even if you PS'd the turnip, you wouldn't get much advantage. I usually either want to be facing Peach so that if I have to shield, I might be able to land a shieldgrab off of it, or if I have to face away, be bairing so that I can reset the situation and possibly nab some damage while at it.

0:32 - Good jab > grab! I personally would have gone for the grab attempt after jab 1, but what you did worked too. Good stuff! However, you didn't maximize the punish. You went for bthrow instead of a dthrow > bthrow. As I said, grabbing Peach can be hard so we want to maximize our punishes here.

0:35 - Good grab, good dthrow. Just wanted to note that dthrow > ftilt is a true combo on every single character that we CG. It seemed like you were looking for something to follow the dthrow up with, so try that sometime. Tbh though, it seemed like you had enough room for just one more re-grab, but if you don't wanna risk it, ftilt away!

0:38 - You definitely had enough room to CG here! You could have dthrown once before that fthrow. Maximize your punishes.

0:41 - Again, you let Peach drop with a fair way below the ledge, using up her float in the process, and you didn't grab the ledge so she got it. She seems pretty upB trigger happy when she's put in that situation so jump on that ledge the moment you see her fall with fair like that, especially when you see that she used her float beforehand. Without her float, she can't try to stall out your invincibility and she was really low.

0:43 - I don't know how familiar you are with fighting Peaches, but her float cancelled (FC) aerials have only 2 frames of landing lag, which is exactly the same as just landing on the ground with nothing, so don't try to punish that. That FC fair actually had positive frame advantage on your block. I know, it's messed up, but that's how Peach is. :ohwell:

0:45 - Oh noooooo! She fsmashed your shield again and you didn't grab her but jumped instead! :facepalm: OK, that's ok, just capitalize on the next time. However, when you land in front of her shield, you utilt her shield instead of grabbing it. You need to learn about DDD's landing grab mix-ups. DDD's aerials, especially his bair, are threatening enough that they often scare his opponent into shielding when he's in the air close to him. You can use this to your advantage by landing quickly and grabbing him. DDD is imposing like this. After all, he is the KING! :smirk: Manipulate your opponent's fear of being kicked and grabbed. This is our form of pressure.

0:47 - Ok, stop that! :glare: You could have shielded any of those three fsmashes and landed yourself a free shieldgrab for Peach's carelessness. Even if one of them had hit you, it would have done almost nothing at your current %. You are heavy and Peach is fairly weak (fairly).

0:55 - Ooooh, good read! :)

1:10 - Well, you got a CG, which is great, but you didn't follow up with something suitable. I think you had enough space for one more re-grab, but even if not, don't forget about dthrow > ftilt.

1:19 - I would suggest not to pummel your opponent if he is below 50%. It is way too easy to mash out before the throw at those %'s and it's not worth it. Stick with the CG.

1:24 - Stick with the CG.

1:32 - Tough situation you were in, airborne at 152% and running out of jumps, but I would have turned around during one of those jumps to allow myself to at least attempt to protect myself with a bair. Alternatively, if you have to land and you want/have to face front, you can protect your landing with Inhale. It's pretty nifty like that.

1:43 - Really good pivot grab right there.

1:50 - Dude, I'm not gonna say that your foxtrotting back and forth is bad or anything, but I really think it's causing you to miss some prime opportunities. You seem more focused on foxtrotting then actually winning your match.......which is fine if that's what you want. :p

1:54 - Darn tripping! :mad:

1:59 - If you're gonna land right on top of your opponent, I think you should land with Inhale. I know I said regular landing lag is only 2 frames, but that still makes it punishable if the opponent knows you're going/have to land.

2:03 - The CG, man... Honor does not control King DDD. King DDD controls honor!

2:08 - Think of all the damage you could have inflicted through CG's by now. :cry:

2:12 - Good plat drop fake-out! :D

2:14 - That was a weird and awkward position for you to try to utilt Peach from. The situation called for grab.

2:16 - Why were you jumping right in front of Peach like that right before she grabbed you? The situation called for grab, utilt, or dtilt, maybe an Inhale, but not a jump.

2:20 - You ledgejump AD'd to try to get back onstage while avoiding that turnip 'wall'. I have no gripes with that. However, I think you went to too much trouble to scurry through Peach's ledge pressure when you could have just eliminated that pressure altogether. Peach was still picking turnips when you grabbed the ledge. I would have ledgehop faired her to clear her away from that space. It probably would have hit her for some big meaty damage, and even if it didn't (she shielded or spot-dodged it), it would have given her the message, "HEY! I've got a really big hammer here and you're standing right within range of it, so CLEAR OFF!!!" No one wants to stay close to the ledge when they see that DDD's not afraid to swing that hammer around.

2:27 - See? I find it's usually best to attempt to grab after jab 1 if you're going for a jab > grab at all. In this case, she did indeed shield the second hit, just like the last time you tried this. However, remembering what happened last time this same exact situation occurred, Peach spot-dodged the grab and ftilted you. Now, if you had grabbed after the jab 1 instead, it definitely would have gotten her because she shielded the jab 2. Remember that you can grab after either jab 1 or 2, so mix it up.

2:50 - From this point on, you seem to start playing really impatiently because Peach has gotten the lead. Relax and play like you normally would, especially since it was winning you the match up until that point. Don't worry about catching that lead right away because you still have plenty of time (5 minutes and 10 seconds to be exact). It wasn't even that big of a lead because Peach was at kill %'s anyway. One utilt and that stock is over. Just be patient and wait for your chance. Don't force things. Funnily enough, the change in music matched this change in mood perfectly! :rotfl:

3:04 - Peach floated over you with a fair. Kick her in the butt for that! Don't wait to grab her when she lands because remember, FC aerials have practically no landing lag.

3:15 - Ok, NOW you're getting aggressive with your edgeguarding, but it seems to be an act of desperation rather than what you normally do. If you're going to edgeguard, do it throughout the entire match, not just when you're losing. It helps to prevent the last part of that previous sentence.

3:24 - Good dsmash read again. ;)

3:29 - You're being spot-dodge happy. She ftilts your shield and you spot-dodge after the fact (again). This time she punishes that totally unnecessary dodge with a jab.

3:40 - You pummel her just once below 50%, and what happens? She breaks out! Seriously, do not pummel your opponents when you grab them until they're decently high in %'s. You're missing out on your punishes. I haven't seen you perform a single CG for over a minute and a half (since 1:50)!

3:41 - Oh man, the music REALLY matches the mood now! DESPERATION IN FULL EFFECT! :joyful: Sorry, I really like this music, even though the YT vid is taking away from the quality.

3:49 - After you saw Peach going for the usmash, you could have cancelled the upB and gone for the ledge.

4:00 - Y U no want to chaingrab?!? You're losing badly now! :scared:

4:02 - Wow, that abrupt music change was.......distracting... :smash:

4:05 - Dthrow > ftilt. Don't you forget about it!

4:06 - Great spot-dodge catch with that dash attack (DA)! :)

4:10 - Why didn't you edgeguard her this aggressively for the entire match instead of running back and forth? 'Clutch plays' are cool, but it's so much better when you play at your best throughout the entire match.

4:13 - You knocked her out of her float with those bairs. It was risky but I would have let go of the ledge and kicked her again. It most probably would have stuffed that fair she tried to knock you off the ledge with and it would have been extremely beneficial to you because it would have knocked her out of her DJ (which she used to try to fair you). Then you could have just punished her solo umbrella recovery (child's play).

4:25 - You got scared, which caused you to roll into that fsmash. Stay calm and play normally.

Well, better luck next time! That was a really close match and I could have seen it going either way at the end, tbh. I think the one thing that hurt you the most was the lack of capitalization on your grabs. Of course, I'm referring to the extreme lack of CGs and CG follow-ups. Other than that, I just think you need to get used to the concept of DDD instilling fear in his opponents and taking advantage of the preemptive actions that many people will take to avoid his grab and bair. Also, don't forget that you can use Inhale to cover your landing if you need it. Other than those things, that was a pretty good match for a new DDD. Good stuff! I know you'll do a lot better next time! ;)

Edit: Come to think of it, I NEVER saw you use dtilt, not even once. I highly recommend D3's dtilt, especially at neutral when you're afraid that ftilt just isn't safe enough. It's strong (can kill at high %'s when fresh), and it has fairly low startup and lag. It's faster than ftilt and around the same speed as utilt with considerably more horizontal range. I believe the move can randomly trip the opponent too, so make sure to use it. It's also pretty decent as an edgeguarding tool, especially if your opponent likes to come in slightly above the ledge.
 

Hoejja

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 9, 2012
Messages
122
Location
France
and try to not buffer the pummel sometimes they instantly break out not matter what % they had
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
Thanks alot for the highly detailed critique.
I summed up a few things from there and wrote them down so I keep them in mind. Those were definitely useful tips.

Some silly mistakes you saw from there though, like jumping and airdodging or double-jumping when I could have gone for the B-Air where actually B-Air attempts...but the controller sometimes jumps when I want to do an aerial (I use the c-stick), so I have to press it more softly. Same goes for the U-Tilt. It sometimes jumps (I have the tilts set to the c-stick as well). The rest was pretty just me doing-it-wrong. 8P
As for the lack of chaingrab...well, according to that Peach player, he told me that DDD can only CG Peach until 30%, so yeah...there's some "honor" in this soldier, but do note that wasn't the reason I wasn't CG'ing. That's the reason I also relied more on reads and tech-chases with the D-Smash. Don't know if that'll work again, now that I know Peach is chaingrabbable all the time.

Oh yeah, is there a reliable way to land U-Tilt if the opponent is "shield-happy" starting from around 100%? I could think of some D-Smash/Dash attack tech-chases, but I don't know if they're any more reliable. So far, I have an easy time landing the U-Tilt by punishing her U-Smash attempts when I'm right above her, so I just FF U-Tilt that.
 

bubbaking

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
6,895
Location
Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
As for the lack of chaingrab...well, according to that Peach player, he told me that DDD can only CG Peach until 30%, so yeah...
Sorry man, but you got duped. :ohwell:

Oh yeah, is there a reliable way to land U-Tilt if the opponent is "shield-happy" starting from around 100%? I could think of some D-Smash/Dash attack tech-chases, but I don't know if they're any more reliable. So far, I have an easy time landing the U-Tilt by punishing her U-Smash attempts when I'm right above her, so I just FF U-Tilt that.
Well, I actually find DDD to be quite awkward when it comes to landing kills at decent %'s with him. Two things you must take advantage of are that DDD's utilt comes out fast, which you probably already know, and his head has invincibility for the first two frames of startup. Use these facts and try to take advantage of openings your opponent creates, including predicted ones. If you see Peach trying to land on you with a dair, you can retaliate with utilt. Other legitimate set-ups you have are spot-dodge/roll > utilt. Nair > utilt is also a pretty decent shield string, if you suspect that you can possibly catch some OoS action with that.
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
I see some DDD players just run up and B-Air without going through the full pivot animation. That is a little hard for me to do if the running distance is small. Is it important to learn that?
 

bubbaking

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
6,895
Location
Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
That is a RAR (Reverse Aerial Rush). It's actually really easy to do. At any point during your run, just press in the opposite direction and jump immediately after pressing that direction. You will instantly be facing backwards. You can even jump just a few frames after starting the skid and you will still end up turned around in the air. The RAR is probably one of DDD's most useful and necessary techniques because of the all-purpose nature of our bairs.
 

allshort17

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Messages
574
Location
Gwinnett county, GA
That is a RAR (Reverse Aerial Rush). It's actually really easy to do. At any point during your run, just press in the opposite direction and jump immediately after pressing that direction. You will instantly be facing backwards. You can even jump just a few frames after starting the skid and you will still end up turned around in the air. The RAR is probably one of DDD's most useful and necessary techniques because of the all-purpose nature of our bairs.
Nope. B-reverse inhale is waaaay better.
 

allshort17

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Messages
574
Location
Gwinnett county, GA
I actually have videos now! They uploaded the ones I had at the tournament I went to Saturday. Rip at it as much as you want since I know it's pretty bad. There should be another one on the way soon.

vs LionArmor (Fox) The first two are the tournament and the last one is a friendly. They didn't know which was which so they put all three on there.

I searched my name more and found some older videos I didn't know about. You don't have to critique them. I just thought it would be nice to watch and know I'm not just a board lurker.

vs TheReflexWonder (PT)
vs Ryker (Falco)

edit: They put it up. vs Cam (Falco)
 

Bobwithlobsters

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
421
Location
Oakdale MN
Yeah I'm thinking I'm going to try and start being more active on critique videos on here. Trying to really evaluate the why of other players and to evaluate their habits is a good learning experience for both me and the one I'm evaluating. was planning on doing swei's video tonight but then it was a no show...

:phone:
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
Yeah, sorry about that.
I changed it, so it's public now.
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
I like the DDD-MK MU...or pretty much just, DDD against any lightweight character that isn't Jiggaly.
 

DewDaDash

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
1,742
Location
エレクトリッ
All short, against cam I don't know why ur playing him straight up. That's like an 08 mu style that has gotta go. From the beginning when ur at 0% camp on that moving platform and exchange hits. Once uve exchanged hits and are at 50% then come down and play straight up. ALso, u need to be able to power shield every laser. And three umm make good use of tech chase. The 1st two points are most important though if u plan on playing this mu more.

:phone:
 

bubbaking

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
6,895
Location
Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
I like the DDD-MK MU...or pretty much just, DDD against any lightweight character that isn't Jiggaly.
That's weird. I would think that DDD likes playing against Jiggs more than most other lightweights. I absolutely hate fighting against Kirby. It's an even MU, but Kirby gets such BS on DDD off a grab and I'm bad at avoiding grabs. (>.<) MK's definitely our worst MU.

Edit: Or maybe slightly easier than ICs and/or Oli, but definitely up there in top 3.
 

DewDaDash

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
1,742
Location
エレクトリッ
Smash DI his dair, do not go in randomly throwing in a waddle dee as an offensive tactic that serves no purpose, cg him, abuse his off stage disadvantages, space with bair, profit.

Oh yea learn how to DI.
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
Can we really SDI his N/D-Air? DDD's such a huge target. =/
Also, I never use Side-B, those were just failed B-Reversal attempts. xP

At last, how can I get better at DI? I don't think my reactions are above-average...
 

bubbaking

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
6,895
Location
Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
I'm fairly certain Snake's multi-hit moves can be SDI'd, although yes, it would be harder to fully escape the move with a character as large as DDD. Still very possible, though. I actually kinda guessed that your random close-up Waddles were actually supposed to be Inahles, but that just means you really have to work on your execution. As for improving your DI, do you need help with how to DI at the right time or what direction to DI in?
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
I don't really have trouble B-Reversing Inhales and stuff, it's just something I did at that particular match.
As for DI, I just don't react fast enough.
 
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