the secret zelda strats discussionzone

[aka.carpet003]

when's the best time to grab? I'm not exactly sure how much range zelda's grab has so yeah, its apparently very slow too like 16 frames or something, so how and when do you get to land a grab?

 

[Mew2King]

play zelda like hungrybox you'll win

 

[Pink Reaper]

Space bairs then when **** gets real use Down B?

Sounds about right.

 

[VA]

Hooray just got 2nd at a tournament. Lots of tough opponents

Magus will be delighted to know I won a last-stock, last-hit, last-game match against a Peach by using dtilt shieldpoke -> utilt LOL.

I'm literally 100% convinced Zelda is mid tier now. Slightly worse than samus, better than DK, Luigi, Link, etc. We'll see.

I took a set off Kels in the grand finals and made it to match 4 of 2nd set in grand finals and lost there. I had a chance of taking the entire tournament with Zelda

I didn't use any other characters except 1 sheik ditto that I lost lol against Kels

Zelda feels extremely underrated and underutilized. I feel there's a lot more I can still learn and do, and I'm optimistic to keep playing as Zelda. I would not have gotten 2nd with marth/falco, I would have probably gotten 3rd or 4th

That's awesome. I've always felt Zelda is good, characters are unfairly marked as low tier because of glaring weaknesses which means that the time needed to develop a meta game is not invested. What we need is more people like you that take the time to get **** with these characters and show everyone what they're really made of. Melee is not balanced, but if you learn any of the characters you can do well. I almost mained Y.Link, I wish I had. ****ing peach

 

[TheManaLord]

What do you guys think about dthrow dropzoning? If they DI away the throw they're far out and you might be able to get their recovery. If they don't DI you can dropzone kick!!!!!

 

[Zone]

What do you guys think about dthrow dropzoning? If they DI away the throw they're far out and you might be able to get their recovery. If they don't DI you can dropzone kick!!!!!

Dunno I usually just back throw cuz it's pretty strong and it gets them pretty far away. If it's low% though Down throw may lead to an easier gimp. I don't know really, I've always just did back throw if my back was to the edge, Because I got to the point I felt like Down throw was useless cuz alot of pple I play just DI it.

 

[Impp]

I get drop zones on Sheiks, when they're recovering and I'm edge hogging. They expect me to back throw, so a lot of times they DI wrong and I can get it off.

 

[KirbyKaze]

D-throw is better than B-throw for edgeguarding Sheik at low percent, in my experiences vs Zelda. DI in, get kicked, DI away get put offstage vs character with invincible ledgestall w/ hitbox and you're sent really low too so it can be hard to make it onstage with that angle and an invincible Zelda in the way.

B-throw can send really high, which isn't really useful at low percent. I think at mid/high it becomes better though because of the knockback disparity.

 

[Cosmo!]

what does it mean when you do NL but no magic appears

 

[Zone]

D-throw is better than B-throw for edgeguarding Sheik at low percent, in my experiences vs Zelda. DI in, get kicked, DI away get put offstage vs character with invincible ledgestall w/ hitbox and you're sent really low too so it can be hard to make it onstage with that angle and an invincible Zelda in the way.

B-throw can send really high, which isn't really useful at low percent. I think at mid/high it becomes better though because of the knockback disparity.

Ok, I don't Zelda vs Sheik much. I find that matchup more annoying than it's worth.

I get drop zones on Sheiks, when they're recovering and I'm edge hogging. They expect me to back throw, so a lot of times they DI wrong and I can get it off.

Well I need to stop thinking everyone is a Zelda Matchup pro, because you can't really surprise attack them with a down throw and mess up their DI if they know what they're doing.

Because you can totally have the wrong DI, and fix the problem before Zelda even gets near finishing her down throw.

But you're right, could probably work on the majority of players, because there are so few zelda's let alone pple who probably literally never have touched her.

 

[AXE 09]

Nvm, I'll post a new thread about it, cuz I'm not sure how many people go into this thread lol. So check the new thread please ^^

 

[Cosmo!]

is it wrong for me to be disappointed by a 3rd place
cause I just got 3rd (behind tink and kels)
lots of videos though.

coming soon

also I won low tier.

 

[Zone]

is it wrong for me to be disappointed by a 3rd place
cause I just got 3rd (behind tink and kels)
lots of videos though.

coming soon

also I won low tier.

It's not wrong Cosmo man, You're setting your goals high. It's only wrong imo if you wish for their failure. We should all support eachother in our victories.

Gotta think about the other guy. Sure, you may have placed 3rd and been dissappointed, but imagine how he'd feel? Especially if he lost 1st or 2nd cuz he lost to Zelda lol. When I play Zelda I always feel like I got that "I don't care I used Zelda" Feeling. So I never get nervous when I play her. However IF I play on Falcon and get wrecked by a Game&Watch I feel like an idiot lol.

 

[TheManaLord]

gotta see some cosmo in action ill be at a tourny this coming weekend

 

[Cosmo!]

let me preface this by saying my DI sucks against c.falcon but is usually spot on against other chars. after the tournament was over I played a lot of friendlies VS falcon mains and I was starting to be able to escape the d-throw knee somewhat consistently using the technique magus described.


cosmo vs bzoo (cfalcon) — winners quarters
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZXMy6H4CZk
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVuFdUBCRK0

my only 2 deaths in game 1 were a flubbed recovery and a failed DI escape of the d-throw knee. imagine how long zelda could live if you play perfectly.
my favorite thing against falcon is get inside their shield then upsmash when you know they're going to jump. its so good. also, massive comeback in the 2nd match.


cosmo vs tink (marth) — winners semis
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_n-XFoQzbU
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_F_Gh-hakM

disappointed is my word for this set. tink was playing hot though (he won the tournament too). not sure what happened when I tried to do the marthkiller but i got under the stage and i panicked. it cost me big . My counterpick was ****ty, i should have stayed w/ a neutral. the stage worked against me here.


cosmo vs mendoza (samus) — losers quarters
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeK9MCjcURI
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6OptkdGXqI
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_nOc2Oz8Jk

I play mendoza all the time and he's caught on to a lot of my tricks. we know eachother's style very well. this is the first time he's taken a match off of me and thats good **** cause he's stepping up his game. i played very well on the last match except when i flubbed a recovery.


cosmo vs vro (cfalcon) — losers semis
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ngSfP8skpE
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5T76QkO0Jo
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WzpVrGM138

my DI is terrible in this set but I somehow still win. I also got hit by some johnly dthrow -> dair and I try to meteor cancel it too early and I get gimped lol


cosmo vs kels (fox) — losers finals
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV2E8haD9XY&feature=channel
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPExcTaWwMk&feature=channel
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOlAH_5c3Ok&feature=channel
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iwYsrxcwiE&feature=channel

imo the only way zelda beats fox is when you have perfect movement and can challenge all his approaches. I had near optimal movement in the 1st match. you need to match fox's speed with your own. it sounds like a joke but you can do it. my final counterpick was a ******** scrub mistake. I know fox ***** zelda on dreamland and dk64 but I tried it anyway. stupid. what I learned from this set: don't dash attack fox at low%


cosmo vs vro (cfalcon) — $5 money match
1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_F5EaPaZrQ
2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqmYpMb23dQ
3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR6VZjkJ9lA

vro felt he deserved to beat me in the tournament so we played again for 5 dollars.


all vids up now.

 

[TheLake]

Daaaaaaaamn

You roll alot...but its effective...very cool

You took tink to cruise!

GOOD **** (even if it didnt work out so well)

Im still watching so ill comment more later

Way to rep da wisdom bro

 

[Cosmo!]

yea i notice i roll all over the place but I haven't been effectively punished for it yet LOL so I'll keep doin it

 

[GKInfinity]

It's so entertaining and inspiring to watch your videos. Keep it up!

Btw, were there any vids from the tournament that happened directly before this most recent tourney? I recall you saying that you got 2nd at it or something so I'm intrigued...

 

[Cosmo!]

no vids from that, im very disappointed cause I beat tink 3-1 and I beat kels 3-2 then lost 1-3

at this one I lost 0-2 and 1-3


all vids are up now btw

 

[nekokatsu]

Hi Cosmo, i main Zelda too and in the last torney i got beat up very badly xD, so i have to use falco to win at least one Round.

I have questions!
1. its seems u use shield and wave dash from the shield no? like shielding with R and wavedashing with L?
2. when u use the shield, u move it to the ground or foward? (not rolling or dodging)
3. the secret of zelda is attacking out of the shield and kick, i come to this conclusion too, but when im defending and i recive an attack the JC took too much time and the kick is no longer in the range, but ur JC its almost instant, how do u do that? do u tap jump out of the shield? or its a tricky timming?, and in one round u used up smash out of the shield, to do that u are with the shield then tap jump and C stick up?

Keep going Zelda! Cuz every time we are getting higher and higher...

 

[Zone]

Hi Cosmo, i main Zelda too and in the last torney i got beat up very badly xD, so i have to use falco to win at least one Round.

I have questions!
1. its seems u use shield and wave dash from the shield no? like shielding with R and wavedashing with L?
2. when u use the shield, u move it to the ground or foward? (not rolling or dodging)
3. the secret of zelda is attacking out of the shield and kick, i come to this conclusion too, but when im defending and i recive an attack the JC took too much time and the kick is no longer in the range, but ur JC its almost instant, how do u do that? do u tap jump out of the shield? or its a tricky timming?, and in one round u used up smash out of the shield, to do that u are with the shield then tap jump and C stick up?

Keep going Zelda! Cuz every time we are getting higher and higher...

I know you asked Cosmo, But imma give my 2cents too.

1.) That's the standard way to Wavedash out of shield, But not 100% the only way. I shield and wavedash with the same button when I wavedash out of shield lol. Most pple find that hard to grasp in their head when I tell them how I do it. My way is harder, but it's the way I learned it and I do it consistently that way now.

Also if you're wavedashing out of shield from a light shield. You can hit jump out of shield, and just push in the button further, like you're making a transistion from light to heavy shield to do the wavedash.

2.) aiming your shield depends on the scenario, If Fox and Falco withered down your shield a bit, They may go for a down-tilt shield poke. Especially for falco when you're at high %. You'll want to aim your shield down. If they are flying at you with a d-air, or a n-air, You'll want to aim your shield AT THEM, so they hit your shield earlier, that way you have more reaction time from shield stun to the time they touch the ground. If they delay their aerial, Your options to stop that would have been better with an attack, but if they already caught your shield with a delay'd aerial depending on the character you may want to wait a bit longer in shield for your opening. Or roll out or w/e if the try to shine grab, ect.

3.) I'm kind of confused but are you saying your jump out of shield takes too long? It depends on the move they used on you, and whether or not you did a heavey shield or a light shield. Ganon's stomp on your shield, you'll get stuck in shield longer than say if falcon n-air's your shield. Just keep practicing kick's out of shield, and upsmashes out of shield, and JC nayru's love out of shield to learn timings for Jumping out of shield stun.

And remember lightshield will let you slide farther than normal shield when being barraged, so it's good to mix these up for Spacing since quite a bit of Zelda's strength lies with her shield and running away, With a bit of priority knowledge.

Also I've decided to Go 100% Zelda with a tape recorder@ WATO in late May. One last time For my old long time main.

 

[Cosmo!]

zone covered it pretty well

it should be noted tho that if you lightshield you have more shieldstun, so you cannot do OoS punishes with it in most cases. lightshield is great for escaping rather than counterattacking

 

[TheLake]

It also snags the *****es

Ladies love a big round thick light shield

and yaaay zoone

 

[Cosmo!]

gonna write some personal notes here

dont die by doin instant fair/bair oos and its a whiff / weak hit on their shield. upsmashed. make sure its a good hit

usmash properties: need to hit fox as he is rising else he will dair thru it

fulljump double kick is bad pattern

 

[aka.carpet003]

is there a way to stop players from di-ing out of upsmash?

 

[EPsilon933]

is there a way to stop players from di-ing out of upsmash?

Secretly switch the Melee disk to 1.0

In 1.0, there's no hitlag on attacks that deal <1% damage, so they can't be Smash DI'ed.

 

[Cosmo!]

it also seems to help to start the upsmash when they're in the middle of it. bigger characters get stuck in it more, like cfalcon will get stuck more often than fox

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think I'm going to play Zelda more because Kirby is worthless but I like doing Bair.

Mow said she's good against IC at some point too so I figure it might be worth trying if I get stuck first round against an IC as Sheik on some weird neutral like FoD. Kick ***** Nana.

edit: So against characters that aerial a lot in general, I think SHing back and then using Zelda's tiny DJ the DJ (a la SilentSpectre) to adjust the spacing for the kick is really good. It's probably common strat but I was using it the one time I bothered to play this character and oh my goodness it makes fine spacing vs awkward hitboxes (kicking through DK Up+B and stuff) so much easier it's insane. And against people that like to overshoot you can move forward and kick them before they throw an active hitbox in your general area. It's awesome.

D-tilt is really good when it knocks over or combos.

 

[Cosmo!]

tourney this weekend. gotta whoop some ***

 

[EPsilon933]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=10294013#post10294013

Tournament I went to. Post advice. I'll take any plz.

 

[Zone]

Just recently I tried to make some new combos/Try out other ones I've heard.

That run off Nayru's Love into jump kick is pretty pimp on fast faller at the right percents. Haven't tried it on floaties.

This next one was inspired by Silent Spectre Pillaring Germ's Link with Falcon. He would full jump Down-air, and before he hit the ground just barely get out the first hit of his n-air into a regrab.

This also works for Zelda, Best to only use while they are in hitsun obviously because Down-air has no priority when your opponent is above you. Lets say you waveland backwards and up-air someone, Sets them up at just the right height. You l-cancel immediately and jump into a immediate down-air(Must be a full hop), that way by the time you reach them it just comes out and your kinda meteoring them with ur upper body. Before you hit the ground hit A to just barely pop out the first few hits of N-air. And l-cancel immediately into grab. Although trajectory is weird and sometimes they'll be behind you or infront. So if you want to play it safe instead of grab, Go for a nayru's love, which will cover behind you and infront of you after N-air.
(Please note: Kicking is still probably the best option, But they usually expect this. Maybe you can mess them up with their incorrect DI input and set them up on a worse case scenario more below the stage off stage. As where the kick would give them a better chance to DI correctly)

You guys should learn Pivoted F-tilt. pretty good priority and sometimes trades. At low percents is a great trade with aerials, because you are usually out of hitstun first, and can chase them. Aim it upward straight and downward accordingly.

I've caught fox out of N-air with a Pivoted F-tilt, and dash attacked behind me and got him before he hit the ground into a kick or grab or w/e you fancy.

at lower percents you can catch them when they are on the ground. It will pop them up, they can tech. If they roll tech, very hard to catch them. If they tech in place you can wait a second. If they tech toward you, You can chase their tech. If they don't tech at all(this seems to happen the most). You can jab reset--> Grab. or if your feeling cheeky go for a downward aimed F-tilt and if ur F-tilting them with ur back to the edge, and they are low percent. At the right Percent you can get out a nayru's love fast enough to Knock them off stage.

All of these were being tested on the fast fallers. I haven't played around with floaties enough yet.

Also I see most people just kick when they up-throw a fast faller onto a platform. They'll just tech chase them with a kick. Why not try wave landing, into a dash attack if they roll. Or even a grab. This will give you more damage, which will usually ultimately end in a kick anyways. thus more guaranteeing at the end of the kick they probably won't make it back/limit their recovery options because they have to use their second jump.

I dunno this is my trying to be creative.

I also upthrow Marth onto a platform, And tech chased his roll with a down-air, Edge-cancel, into another Down-air. He's on the ground at this point. probably not teched, cuz this is a very odd combo. and from this point use your imagination.

This is just me effing around trying to make Zelda look cool.

Some of these probably aren't worth doing, but they add more hits together in a string. And make Zelda look scary.

 

[EPsilon933]

How does Zelda's edgeguarding work? I only have a few strategies currently, which are:


Edgeguarding Fox/Falco


This works mainly against Fox's/Falco's up/forward-B's since Her jab has a far disjointed hitbox (and their forward-B hitboxes are behind them). You'll need really good reflexes to be able to edgeguard their forward-B's out of reaction (10 frames or less for Fox, 7 or less for Falco. I think my math is right?). If you're going to try it with reflexes, just listen for the sound of their forward-B's. Humans can react to sound faster than sight.

If you miss the jab against Falco, you'll go straight up and might be in a position for a perfectly spaced toe. For Fox, you'll be less lucky because it doesn't send you send you straight up from the ground. And of course, if they try up-B straight at you, you'll just need to time it, which is easy.

If the jab hits and they're off the stage (which is where they should be, at least from what I know), Fox/Falco will always go for an up-B to try to get back (unless they magically tech or wall jump, I've never seen it so I don't know). What I try to do is dsmash them as they're up-B'ing to you. Fox/Falco can change the timing of their up-B's by changing the angle they go at. If you guess the timing well, they're guaranteed to die. Zelda's dsmash is a semi-spike so their own fast falling speed will be their demise.


Edgeguarding Captain Falcon


I find edgeguarding a Falcon a bit difficult, mainly when they try and revocer from high above. But if they try to play a guessing game of are they going to grab the edge or not, The best move might be dtilting right over the ledge. If they go for the edge, dtilt will prevent them from grabbing it because it pops them slightly up and makes him seemlingly stop. This is the perfect stop to dsmash him which kills fast fallers.

If Falcon goes for the ground behind you, simply turn around and bthrow him to repeat the process. Try to get at least 1 pummel for every 35% damage they have. And if you don't hear their controller click in attempt to escape, take a liberty to add in an extra 2 or 3 pummels.

If Falcon goes for a platform and lands on it, the best move is to go for a toe.

You could also try rolling to the edge and keep facing the the center of the stage then Nayru's Love when they go for the edge, aka hexing. By doing this, they'll get pushed off and you'll fall off the stage and grab the edge (allowing you to edgehog?). It's very situational and not recommended, but in friendlies, it can surprise a few players.


Edgeguarding Marth


Face it, she's terrible at it. But not all hope is lost. I'd say her best, and only, hope is to up-B stall to keep invincibility, stop when he's able to up-B and reach the stage, then roll onto the stage by either reacting to Marth's "TWAHH!" or by predicting if you're not fast enough. Use this strategy in general for any other characters you don't know how to edgeguard if the seem like they'll only be able to reach the edge.

If a Marth still lands on the stage, I think they'll have enough time to escape anything you'll do when you've rolled onto the stage.

Marth killer does not work if Marth times his up-B to grab the ledge perfectly.


Edgeguarding Ice Climbers


TheLake says to use Din's Fire to separate Nana from Popo during their recovery. I haven't tested this yet on an Ice Climber player, so I don't know how well it works.


I only recently learned her edgeguard game, but at least this is what I've learned so far.

 

[Magus420]

Marth killer does not work if Marth times his up-B to grab the ledge perfectly.

What makes you say that? I'm pretty sure it works just fine. I don't think you even need to FF with Zelda.

 

[EPsilon933]

What makes you say that? I'm pretty sure it works just fine. I don't think you even need to FF with Zelda.

I don't know. I guess I should recheck it whenever I get the chance.

 

[Cosmo!]

honestly you should kill falcon like every time he is below the stage and has to upB

 

[GKInfinity]

honestly you should kill falcon like every time he is below the stage and has to upB

That's exactly what I was thinking. If he recovers high, kick that biatch. If he recovers just above the ledge, dsmash. If he tries to sweetspot the edge, dtilt or edgehog. Falcon's pretty easy to keep off the stage with zelda. If he's still got a jump left it can be much more difficult, but once he's got only his upB to recover he's an easy target.

 

[Zone]

That's exactly what I was thinking. If he recovers high, kick that biatch. If he recovers just above the ledge, dsmash. If he tries to sweetspot the edge, dtilt or edgehog. Falcon's pretty easy to keep off the stage with zelda. If he's still got a jump left it can be much more difficult, but once he's got only his upB to recover he's an easy target.

Yeah, Just be careful when they are close to the edge wall, And also be weary that they can mind **** you with their falling DI from a really high Up+B. They have been getting smarter too with edgecancelling their up+B's So if it looks like they are going for that you need to get them before they touch the ground and not wait for their landing lag. But yes, for the most part if they are coming from below. Your best bet is to kick them before they can touch the wall, so they have no prayer of teching. Downsmash is nice, but if they tech it once, You might want to consider he's good at teching and go for some more off stage kills where he has no option to save himself from an offense.

 

[Pi]

I played zelda today
she was fun
(vs. falco)
her grab range is pretty long

that is all.

 

[EPsilon933]

her grab range is pretty long

that is all.

Too bad it can't grab a lot of crouching characters. Her shield grab is terrible.

That is all.

 

[TheManaLord]

Kick that is all