Social The Suburbs of Onett - Ness Social Thread

[PMMikey]

So if you ha to nerf ness harshly, what would you do?

 

[Sir_Zedd]

Drastically lower back throws launching power, that would be enough to drop Ness down quite a bit.

 

[Shaymikyu]

So, after playing SSB Wii U for a couple of months, I have decided the leader of the Chosen Four himself is my main. I avoided him for a while because I much preferred Lucas in Brawl and Ness felt kind of clunky to me there, but I tried him on whim and wow, has he become more awesome.

Also, appropriately, I've been playing EB/Mother 2 for the first time, and I'm a good ways into it. It's an awesome game, and I definitely can't choose between it and Mother 3.

 

[TechPowah]

So if you ha to nerf ness harshly, what would you do?

Remove the "okay" taunt

.......What? EVERY Ness player would consider it a nerf

 

[Shaymikyu]

Remove the "okay" taunt

DON'T EVEN JOKE ABOUT THAT. Seriously, though, Ness losing "okay" would be worse than when Sonic lost "You're too slow!"

 

[_clinton]

So, if you could change Ness' specials what would you do? Here is my wish list.

B

-PK Flash, as it is now only I'd buff this sucker to have more control (aim it up or down better, or keep it from rising in general)
-PK Rockin, taking Lucas' usmash as the animation. It’s a charge attack in the same style as DK and such.
-PK Freeze, turned into a Zelda' din's fire type of move. And works like it does now (no knock back/somewhat long stun time)


B>
-PK Fire, as it is now. Only with the ability to angle the bolt up or down some like Link’s Boomerang.
-Paralysis, Lucas' PK Fire, only given a new look and giving a Zero Suit Samus stun affect when you hit with it.
-PK Ground, Again taking Lucas' down smash animation. Move spikes/buries foes if hit with it rather than kills (but off stage a spike would be bad)

B^
-PK Thunder, as it is now.
-Tornado Teleport, a combo of Metaknight's tornado and Warp.
-4th-D slip, works like Lucas’ thunder, it lasts as long as you hold the special button, when you let go Ness will teleport to the location the bolt of energy was at (and it is a KO strength teleport). You can cancel the move with shield/dodge.

Bv
-Magnet, restore the slow fall ability. Give a min heal range of 10% to go with max of 30%. Give it the ability to restore health from food and ice again (hello adding yoshi/diddy, return of Dr. Mario/G&W)+ restore health from some things I think were missed (such as Bowser Jr’s bombs, and Lyoid Rocket’s normal blow up)
-Telepathy: Think of Shulk’s vision (in that if it works the foe is slowed down), only Ness doesn’t attack automatically when the move is in effect (you pick your counter).
-Power Shield, The move works like Wii Fit Trainer’s deep breathing, in that it is not long lasting and has a recharge time.Ness powers up and no longer flinches from attacks when he is attacking. Certain moves are also buffed when using this.
Fsmash, comes out on frame 10.
Dash attack, range buffed.
Yo-yos, has an energy animation following the toy adding extra hits.
Dtilt, 100% trip rate.
Dair, comes out on frame 10.
Nair, has a wind affect around it

 

[Shaymikyu]

That's tough, because a part of me wants to make Ness more accurate to his EB self, but a part of me loves his current moves. Oddly enough, the one that I'd want to replace/rework the most is PK Flash, a move he can actually canonically use. I have more ideas on how to rework Lucas than Ness, but that's because I've replayed Mother 3 a ton of times and have ideas on how to tie in all of his party members.

I think replacing PK Fire with PK Paralysis (albeit acting similarly to Fire, just with a different animation) is something I'd consider, however.

 

[spiderfreak1011]

So, after playing SSB Wii U for a couple of months, I have decided the leader of the Chosen Four himself is my main. I avoided him for a while because I much preferred Lucas in Brawl and Ness felt kind of clunky to me there, but I tried him on whim and wow, has he become more awesome.

Also, appropriately, I've been playing EB/Mother 2 for the first time, and I'm a good ways into it. It's an awesome game, and I definitely can't choose between it and Mother 3.

Same here, finally replaying EB officially (and not through piracy, thank you Nintendo), and i'd forgotten how fun and great the game is, and why it's the praised cult classic it's known for. I still prefer Mother 3 due to the story and the characters and the themes and symbollism and all, but Earthbound is still incredible and one of the best RPG's ive played in my eyes. I use Ness (although not as often as i'd use Lucas if he was in Smash 4) from time to time, and i plan on getting a Ness Amiibo if only because im an EB fan (and so my Bowser amiibo doesnt get lonely and i have a new training partner).

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

Are they taking pre-orders for Ness amiibo yet?

 

[spiderfreak1011]

Are they taking pre-orders for Ness amiibo yet?

Not at gamestop yet from what i know. Gonna check later today in person and ask. Also gonna try asking anything about the Shulk Amiibos (Obscure RPG's ftw).

 

[Shaymikyu]

Once preorders open for Ness, I am jumping on it ASAP. It's the closest we will probably get to official EB merchandise anytime soon.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

Do you plan on opening the case or not? First I'm debating whether I should get the Amiibo or not. If I do, I'm not sure if I should keep it in the box or open it and not have the pretty case anymore...

 

[Noa.]

I actually just started earthbound two days ago. I'm really enjoying it so far

I actually played through like the first half a while ago. But them my rom got corrupted so I haven't returned to it until now.

Ways to nerf Ness?

Apart from obvious things like destroying bthrow or pk Thunder, I think a very effective way to nerf Ness would be to mess around with his landing lag. Making the auto cancel windows tighter a, and adding more landing lag on Bair, nair, and uair would hurt ness a lot.

In terms of buffs, I think making fsmash come out 2 frames faster would be nice. I wish his dtilt was a little bit slower, like fram 5 or 6, but that it had 100% tripping rate when you first used it on an opponent. And that dair's sweet spot Hitbox was out for a couple more frames, along with its knockback being drastically increases. I would make utilt have very little startup and end lag. I would make Usmash have a bit more range. Same hitbox size, just the yoyo goes out a bit farther. Those are the changes I would do to Ness's worst moves to make them better

 

[Shaymikyu]

Do you plan on opening the case or not? First I'm debating whether I should get the Amiibo or not. If I do, I'm not sure if I should keep it in the box or open it and not have the pretty case anymore...

Open, of course. I want the little guy on my desk, and I doubt I'll resell him.

 

[Earthbound360]

I just want dair to either be a lot less laggy OR a lot easier to sweetspot. One or the other would be great. The former would make it a good on stage tool, while the second one would make it an actually viable edgeguard too. It just doesn't make sense to me that such an aerially adept character has an aerial that's so friggin bad.

I'd never nerf Ness, but the funniest nerf I COULD think of would be to make PKT go through himself.
Most realistic nerf I can expect is Ness' uair losing some knockback.

 

[PKBeam]

They advanced the autocancel window (at the end) 21 frames from Brawl, so change it back.
Sweetspot duration was 3-4 frames instead of 1, so change it back.
Sourspot knockback was a *LOT* stronger, so change it back.
Change it back, Sakurai.
Change it back.

 

[P.I.E.]

Pie why do you never go to tournaments?

I've been a little busy, but I'm confirmed for TNS!

I really felt like I plateaud for a while, and it's taking more time than it should for me to stop playing like its brawl ness, so it really got to me when characters like sheik and rosa were able to make cheap work of me.

I would have trounced xaltis for example, but I didn't know how to deal with rosalina, or her gimp, so the gimp really bothered me.

Or players I knew I could beat but didn't becausei didnt understand the character and became stuck on the fact that I didn't need to go to the lab.

But I'm back on the boards, and my confidence is back, and I'm learning matchups more than ever so I can go back and Come to more tounies!

 

[Earthbound360]

They advanced the autocancel window (at the end) 21 frames from Brawl, so change it back.
Sweetspot duration was 3-4 frames instead of 1, so change it back.
Sourspot knockback was a *LOT* stronger, so change it back.
Change it back, Sakurai.
Change it back.

Heck even the sweespot range was stronger.

I understand they wanted spikes to be less prominent in this game (for some reason, I don't think they were even that OP in Brawl), but power, end lag, and hitbox? Taking it a little far, aren't we?

 

[Noa.]

I've been a little busy, but I'm confirmed for TNS!

I really felt like I plateaud for a while, and it's taking more time than it should for me to stop playing like its brawl ness, so it really got to me when characters like sheik and rosa were able to make cheap work of me.

I would have trounced xaltis for example, but I didn't know how to deal with rosalina, or her gimp, so the gimp really bothered me.

Or players I knew I could beat but didn't becausei didnt understand the character and became stuck on the fact that I didn't need to go to the lab.

But I'm back on the boards, and my confidence is back, and I'm learning matchups more than ever so I can go back and Come to more tounies!

I mean I'm all for that. But Xaltis? Meh he's pretty good. He's one of the best players in our state lol.

 

[_clinton]

Ness buffs and nerfs huh.

Well, for nerfs that wouldn't wreck Ness:
-nothing, leave him alone, nerfs in general are stuff I feel should be rarely given out.

Now for "buffs that I feel" wouldn't break Ness =)
-ftilt, given more range with a spark
-utilt, just in general faster
-dtilt, give the move 100% trip rate in general, made to come out on frame 4 to make up for that
-dash attack given more range, faster cool down
-fsmash comes out on frame 15, melee speed IIRC, reflect hit box lasts longer
-usmash and dsmash have more range in general but same speeds to make up for it
-nair made into N64 version. I always liked the "going down a slide WEEE!" kick, + I feel a Mario length sex kick is better than spin anyway, it can keep the strength it has now of course.
-dair, made to autocancel, come out on frame 15. I swear this move was needlessly nerfed almost as much as Falco's
-uair, bair, and fair come out just a bit faster (if you've tried Lucas' fire fully, you'll agree with me for uair and fair, oh and 2 aerials in one short hop as well for bair + bair to uair restored)
-PK Flash given ability to rise more or lower more
-PK Fire can be aimed like Link's boomerang
-PSI Magnet given a 10% min absorb rate, given the ability to absorb ice and food projectiles, certain bombs that were missed fixed (Bowser Jr, Lyoid crash). Given N64 sound affect when started.
-Ok taunt given super armor, given Project M Fuzzy Pickles taunt

 

[PKBeam]

That's an interesting list.

 

[Screk]

I've been a little busy, but I'm confirmed for TNS!

I really felt like I plateaud for a while, and it's taking more time than it should for me to stop playing like its brawl ness, so it really got to me when characters like sheik and rosa were able to make cheap work of me.

I would have trounced xaltis for example, but I didn't know how to deal with rosalina, or her gimp, so the gimp really bothered me.

Or players I knew I could beat but didn't becausei didnt understand the character and became stuck on the fact that I didn't need to go to the lab.

But I'm back on the boards, and my confidence is back, and I'm learning matchups more than ever so I can go back and Come to more tounies!

no excuses pie

 

[Noa.]

Ness buffs and nerfs huh.

Well, for nerfs that wouldn't wreck Ness:
-nothing, leave him alone, nerfs in general are stuff I feel should be rarely given out.

Now for "buffs that I feel" wouldn't break Ness =)
-ftilt, given more range with a spark
-utilt, just in general faster
-dtilt, give the move 100% trip rate in general, made to come out on frame 4 to make up for that
-dash attack given more range, faster cool down
-fsmash comes out on frame 15, melee speed IIRC, reflect hit box lasts longer
-usmash and dsmash have more range in general but same speeds to make up for it
-nair made into N64 version. I always liked the "going down a slide WEEE!" kick, + I feel a Mario length sex kick is better than spin anyway, it can keep the strength it has now of course.
-dair, made to autocancel, come out on frame 15. I swear this move was needlessly nerfed almost as much as Falco's
-uair, bair, and fair come out just a bit faster (if you've tried Lucas' fire fully, you'll agree with me for uair and fair, oh and 2 aerials in one short hop as well for bair + bair to uair restored)
-PK Flash given ability to rise more or lower more
-PK Fire can be aimed like Link's boomerang
-PSI Magnet given a 10% min absorb rate, given the ability to absorb ice and food projectiles, certain bombs that were missed fixed (Bowser Jr, Lyoid crash). Given N64 sound affect when started.
-Ok taunt given super armor, given Project M Fuzzy Pickles taunt

I feel like Ness would become a ridiculous character with these buffs haha.

 

[mobilisq]

This is smash in a nutshell

 

[Tikao]

Imo Ness is actually in a state where he needs no buffs or nerfs.

He is a good character without being op, he is better than most characters (since there are so many) but i wouldn't consider him too strong. He is good enough to not need buffs while not being too strong to deserve nerfs.

 

[Screk]

Another tournament tonight wish me luck ( before Noa ask yes AO again )

 

[_clinton]

I feel like Ness would become a ridiculous character with these buffs haha.

Nah, fsmash coming out on frame 15 still wouldn't make it better than someone like Marth's, who comes out on frame 10 and kills 20% sooner than Ness' and has more range as well. I'd explain how the others are fair IMO but I've got work to worry about.

 

[P.I.E.]

I mean I'm all for that. But Xaltis? Meh he's pretty good. He's one of the best players in our state lol.

I'm not talking **** it was just a close few sets where my stocks were decided by the same gimp it had me pretty salty, but maybe I'm bad for falling for it.

 

[Screk]

So I've been thinking of having a ness group call and streaming it on my stream. I'm well aware we have one already but it has to many people and I rather keep it contained ( Not having 15 people talk over one another ). We can do things such as live match up discussions, player matches ( if you wanna ditto go ahead ), Frame data, and so on. I will only do this if people have an intrest in such a thing. I will also upload them for people who couldn't be in/make it to it.

 

[yoshi8984]

So I went to a tourney today and did pretty damn well! Results should be up soon! Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to be on stream lol.

And it's also been my best tourney placing to this day. :D
#SoDamnProud

 

[Earthbound360]

Congrats Yoshi! Rep the Ness crew!

Anyhoo, feel like asking some casual questions to the Ness boards.

What do you guys think of dash attack?
Has anyone here played Citizens of Earth, AKA Earthbound spiritual successor? What do you think of it?

 

[neomadgic]

Congrats yoshi8984! It's always an accomplishment to place high. I'm going to be entering a midwest regional tournament this saturday. Wish me luck taking out Mew2King

And dash attack is pretty amazing. I love our dash attack so much, it's a great move to punish landing.

 

[_clinton]

I played Citizens of Earth on the Wii U, until the many bugs are fixed (which I hear are on every version) I would recommend staying away from it.

The thing just has so many tech issues right now, I've had it freeze when going to a new screen, when entering battles, in the middle of a battle, when winning battles (including bosses), just randomly. Yeah it is horrible and it really killed my attempt to beat it.

Which is a shame because I like it a lot overall, granted the sound track isn't anything special. Kind of an ear sore really, think around the quality of Sonic Chronicles for the DS. In that there was potential, but they blew it, hard. But there are a lot of neat things about it at least.

I think the easiest way to describe the game when compared to EB is that EB has you using the "all American boy who is psychic and other kids to beat up hippies and exploding trees" while CoE has you using "a hippie to beat up a hippie." Which is pretty cool overall IMO.

Granted, something like this is a two sided sword. It IMO suffers from having too many characters in a way as well is what I mean. If I may now compare it to Chrono Cross now that also has this problem. In that only a small % have any back story that is worth while in CC and the other characters are just there for the ride. Granted those that are needed for the story in that game had a pretty good role to play and I always found the few with a story well done. Yet, CoE I feel there are none that get your attention here unlike the mild sized group of CC. Granted, I only just got done with the capital city part of the game before I gave up.

Still, while EB's enemies were pretty strange, you fighting cranky ladies, exploding trees, and so on, I feel that CoE doesn't let up in that, I mean EB's foes were strange but it felt serious when you were fighting aliens and such, I haven't really got that in CoE yet.

Still, if it gets fixed chances are I'll pick it up again and maybe change my view. But for now the fact that it clearly was a beta IMO instead of a tested final product was a bit of a downer.

Oh and Ness' Dash attack is great, got to love that proper use of it makes it super safe to throw out because of it being a mini projectile like move.

 

[Luco]

I've actually been doing a playthrough of EB to finally finish the game I love so much haha (I got up to the cave of the past last time but couldn't get up to Giygas then lost that save file so had to start again) - I've finally gotten up to Giygas but I can't quite beat him, I keep using pray at the wrong time (next time I try I'll know when to pray) and last time I tried, Poo had enough PP for a PSI Starstorm Omega but felt strange so I couldn't use it and he died.

Jeff seems to die early and his bottle rockets didn't seem to do anything to Giygas so I've been wary about reviving him. Paula is fantastic but she also dies reasonably early and once she runs out of mana, pray is just too risky to be a real option. Poo is in a similar position in that once he's out of mana, it's hard for him not to run out of steam. I'm tossing up whether to go on an all out offensive with Ness' massive PP pool (PSI Rockin Omega which is 98 PP cost @.@) or keep as much of it as possible and continue healing the group... I'm really not sure. I'll figure it out though.

Spoilers in this next paragraph btw:

Spoiler

The story at the end is really interesting to me though. Pokey taunting you and telling you he must be experiencing "absolute terror" from the beating of his own heart is really interesting, as well as his telling Ness that he should contact his mum just to cry to her that he's scared (relates much to the idea that EB is a game about growing up). I LOVE how the very final prayer uses the eight melodies music too, it's really beautiful.

Well, third time's the charm I suppose. I've been training and got another bottle rocket (need another secret herb though ;_; ) and PSI caramel and when I get a good chance I'll try and get to Giygas without fighting any battles (you have to keep resetting the enemy positions by going back and forth until they disappear). I don't want the praying part to become a 'chore' in that battle for me, it's so pretty that I don't wanna do it more than a few tries, so I guess next time I do it I'll put everything I have into it :D

 

[spiderfreak1011]

I've actually been doing a playthrough of EB to finally finish the game I love so much haha (I got up to the cave of the past last time but couldn't get up to Giygas then lost that save file so had to start again) - I've finally gotten up to Giygas but I can't quite beat him, I keep using pray at the wrong time (next time I try I'll know when to pray) and last time I tried, Poo had enough PP for a PSI Starstorm Omega but felt strange so I couldn't use it and he died.

Jeff seems to die early and his bottle rockets didn't seem to do anything to Giygas so I've been wary about reviving him. Paula is fantastic but she also dies reasonably early and once she runs out of mana, pray is just too risky to be a real option. Poo is in a similar position in that once he's out of mana, it's hard for him not to run out of steam. I'm tossing up whether to go on an all out offensive with Ness' massive PP pool (PSI Rockin Omega which is 98 PP cost @.@) or keep as much of it as possible and continue healing the group... I'm really not sure. I'll figure it out though.

Spoilers in this next paragraph btw:

Spoiler

The story at the end is really interesting to me though. Pokey taunting you and telling you he must be experiencing "absolute terror" from the beating of his own heart is really interesting, as well as his telling Ness that he should contact his mum just to cry to her that he's scared (relates much to the idea that EB is a game about growing up). I LOVE how the very final prayer uses the eight melodies music too, it's really beautiful.

Well, third time's the charm I suppose. I've been training and got another bottle rocket (need another secret herb though ;_; ) and PSI caramel and when I get a good chance I'll try and get to Giygas without fighting any battles (you have to keep resetting the enemy positions by going back and forth until they disappear). I don't want the praying part to become a 'chore' in that battle for me, it's so pretty that I don't wanna do it more than a few tries, so I guess next time I do it I'll put everything I have into it :D

Jeff dies early, yeah...That's why you use Hungry HP Sucker every turn, duh.

 

[spiderfreak1011]

Did not mean to double post, sorry. Could someone remove this? : P

 

[Screk]

I've actually been doing a playthrough of EB to finally finish the game I love so much haha (I got up to the cave of the past last time but couldn't get up to Giygas then lost that save file so had to start again) - I've finally gotten up to Giygas but I can't quite beat him, I keep using pray at the wrong time (next time I try I'll know when to pray) and last time I tried, Poo had enough PP for a PSI Starstorm Omega but felt strange so I couldn't use it and he died.

Jeff seems to die early and his bottle rockets didn't seem to do anything to Giygas so I've been wary about reviving him. Paula is fantastic but she also dies reasonably early and once she runs out of mana, pray is just too risky to be a real option. Poo is in a similar position in that once he's out of mana, it's hard for him not to run out of steam. I'm tossing up whether to go on an all out offensive with Ness' massive PP pool (PSI Rockin Omega which is 98 PP cost @.@) or keep as much of it as possible and continue healing the group... I'm really not sure. I'll figure it out though.

Spoilers in this next paragraph btw:

Spoiler

The story at the end is really interesting to me though. Pokey taunting you and telling you he must be experiencing "absolute terror" from the beating of his own heart is really interesting, as well as his telling Ness that he should contact his mum just to cry to her that he's scared (relates much to the idea that EB is a game about growing up). I LOVE how the very final prayer uses the eight melodies music too, it's really beautiful.

Well, third time's the charm I suppose. I've been training and got another bottle rocket (need another secret herb though ;_; ) and PSI caramel and when I get a good chance I'll try and get to Giygas without fighting any battles (you have to keep resetting the enemy positions by going back and forth until they disappear). I don't want the praying part to become a 'chore' in that battle for me, it's so pretty that I don't wanna do it more than a few tries, so I guess next time I do it I'll put everything I have into it :D

I would tell you how to beat him but I think you should experience the ''Absolute Terror'' alone my pray's are with you

 

[Shaymikyu]

I beat the game, and it is glorious. I think I love it as much as Mother 3. I can't choose a favorite...

But it's so fun. I love the globe-trotting aspect, the characters, all the little subtleties, the shocking but not forced darker turn at the end... Now I have a whole new respect for Ness.

 

[Earthbound360]

I played Citizens of Earth on the Wii U, until the many bugs are fixed (which I hear are on every version) I would recommend staying away from it.

The thing just has so many tech issues right now, I've had it freeze when going to a new screen, when entering battles, in the middle of a battle, when winning battles (including bosses), just randomly. Yeah it is horrible and it really killed my attempt to beat it.

Which is a shame because I like it a lot overall, granted the sound track isn't anything special. Kind of an ear sore really, think around the quality of Sonic Chronicles for the DS. In that there was potential, but they blew it, hard. But there are a lot of neat things about it at least.

I think the easiest way to describe the game when compared to EB is that EB has you using the "all American boy who is psychic and other kids to beat up hippies and exploding trees" while CoE has you using "a hippie to beat up a hippie." Which is pretty cool overall IMO.

Granted, something like this is a two sided sword. It IMO suffers from having too many characters in a way as well is what I mean. If I may now compare it to Chrono Cross now that also has this problem. In that only a small % have any back story that is worth while in CC and the other characters are just there for the ride. Granted those that are needed for the story in that game had a pretty good role to play and I always found the few with a story well done. Yet, CoE I feel there are none that get your attention here unlike the mild sized group of CC. Granted, I only just got done with the capital city part of the game before I gave up.

Still, while EB's enemies were pretty strange, you fighting cranky ladies, exploding trees, and so on, I feel that CoE doesn't let up in that, I mean EB's foes were strange but it felt serious when you were fighting aliens and such, I haven't really got that in CoE yet.

Still, if it gets fixed chances are I'll pick it up again and maybe change my view. But for now the fact that it clearly was a beta IMO instead of a tested final product was a bit of a downer.

Oh and Ness' Dash attack is great, got to love that proper use of it makes it super safe to throw out because of it being a mini projectile like move.

Really huh? You don't like it?

I for one am having a LOT of fun with it. I love the quirky atmosphere, silly enemies and attack dialogue, and the characters are full of personality (at least, before you recruit them, then they just have filler dialogue). It really gets that Earthboundy feel for me going. I guess the individual characters have less backstory than in EB, but not by much. Paula was the only one with a healthy amount of dialogue for her. I don't feel like the vast character choice is hurting the game any. If anything, I find it delightful since EB's combat was ironically one of the more average parts of the game. This fleshes out that one aspect I wish was on par with its story and atmosphere.

I can't stop playing it actually. Every time I finish a quest, 3 more pop up that I end up doing part of the way, then I get compelled to finish those. They give you basically the whole world to explore, and you're really only limited by your ability to tread that areas enemies and not die. I think it's great, really encourages exploration, and puts you in your place if the game knows you're not good enough.

I personally like the music. I find some of it catchy, even if there are a couple of forgettable ones. But that's not to say it's perfect. The map system could use some tune ups, and the load screens are really annoying (too many, too frequent). And yes, the tech mishaps omg. The game freezes on me frequently. I've saved myself from huge grief by saving often, but this shouldn't be an issue. This certainly needs to be fixed, but it's not preventing me from playing the game at least (personally).

Overall, I really like it, despite its few shortcomings (mostly technical).

And @ Luco , have you not beaten Giygas yet? You might need to pick up a few levels if he's giving you that much trouble. Ness and Poo should be on regular healing duty. I wouldn't waste too much of Poo's PP on Starstorms if you can't keep your party alive without the heals. And yeah, Jeff's bottle rockets aren't too effective on Giygas because of his speed. Knowing when to pray is key in victory.

As for dash attack, I feel sorta mixed on this guy sometimes. It's the only ground move Ness has a lot of range on, and it can be used to hit through other attacks since I'm fairly sure it doesn't clank. I also use it to punish rolls away from me. But it's also a bit short on hitstun, making it only possible to combo out of at single digit percentages, and it sometimes doesn't get its last hit in (still...). In comparison to other dash attacks, it's not quite as fast and doesn't make Ness lunge as far, but it's got its redeeming qualities.

 

[Shaymikyu]

I had no issue with Giygas, but I was overleveled thanks to my failed attempts at getting the Sword of Kings.

In fact, I felt like I had an easier time with EB's bosses than M3's even before then. The only ones that were a bit rough for me were Frank (who for some reason was the hardest boss overall for me), the Kracken, and the second Mani Mani Statue fight (which I beat on my first try by sheer luck).