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Smash Hero
I say 80-20 or 75-25. A good MK that knows the match-up can really shut down a lot of things that Ganondorf can do. Perhaps not the worst match-up, but it's very difficult nonetheless.
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I'd have to agree with that. At high metagame and enough experience it doesn't look nearly as bad. I'd maybe go as low as 30-70, but that might be pushing it.Ganon Vs MK
I'd say 25:75
Marth'sMK's spacing game is incredibly deadly against Ganondorf. Realistically his43 safe pokes (fair, dtilt, ftilt,nair) in addition to hisinsanereally good punishment game **** Ganondorf.
High level match-up develops like this:
MarthMK gets Ganondorf into poke spacing, Ganondorf has no tool to force a close approach. This means thatMarthMK can freely apply all the sheild pressure he wants and Ganondorf is forced to approach from that spacing since there's no way to force a more advantagious spacing without approaching, this isn't nessecarily a disadvantage, but againstMarthMK it always is effectively.
Unfortunately,Marth'sMK's OOS game isINCREDIBLEvery good but not quite as good as Marth's,tap his shield with anything and you're either getting a dancing blade or a Dolphin slash to the face. 4 frame start up and 0 frame start-up (invincable till the frame 5 hitbox) btwframe 5 up-b with an invincability frame on 4, so it's effectively frame 4, frame 3 dtilt. This means that even the normally safe reverse uair doesn't work,MarthMK just punishes too well and the shield-stun isn't enough.
Don't even try d-tilt, he can punish that too.
So, like Ganondorf against Captain Falcon, forced to approach via a safe poke move (or projectiles for that matter) and every approach is punishable. That means a disadvantage right there.
They both have nice edge-guarding options, butMarthMK is gonna be so much better at getting Ganondorf off-stage,especially since the optimal spacing for Marth happens to be his sweet-spotand Ganondorf is reletively easy to edgeguard especially for MK who happens to have probably the best gimp game in the game
Also,MarthMK has a safe on block kill move here, which ishis last pokeone of his approaches, nair. That isMarth'sMK's primary weakness in most match-ups. Gone. That and the pokes are unpredictable.
To add insult to injury, fair KILLS murder choke, it's too fast and has too large a hitbox, and is too disjointed. That's both ground and aerial murder choke btw.
As another little insult, no guarenteed murder choke follow-ups on Marth.
And then there's just his zoning game, he can wall you the entire match by throwing out hitboxes to prevent you from even being close to him.
And of course, don't forget, MK has an amazing offensive game, he's got multiple safe (nair, tornado, dair) approaches and can shieldstab with tornado, and at least one of the approaches is a kill move in and of itself.
80-20,MarthMK is a HORRIBLE match-up for Ganondorf. I'd venture to say he might be worse thenMKMarth and DDD. Ganondorf's only advantage here isearly kills via tipmanandMarth'sMK's lightness. Definately a lot worse then Samus,MarthMK just shuts Ganondorf down when played properly.
No, tipman gives us a 80-20 advantage.I've hear Ice Climbers **** Ganon pretty hard...
I play IC a lot. We could do a few Ganon Vs IC sometime.I honestly wonder about this match-up. It's probably still one of the worst, but I'm very interested in trying it out. Too bad almost nobody plays them...
Interested! But would it work online?I play IC a lot. We could do a few Ganon Vs IC sometime.
I've actually heard it's 5-95.I used to enjoy fighting IC's. Then I fought one who knew how to cg. Now it's easily my least fun match-up. It's not fun. It sucks. Ganon can't get around a desynched short hopped blizzard approach. Then he gets grabbed. Then he dies. And it repeats and it just makes me feel like putting down my controller and walking away.
If the IC's can't chain grab for whatever reason, the fight becomes a bit more even. Otherwise it's Ganon getting ***** in the cornhole for a minute.
The only thing Ganon has going for him in this fight at all is he ***** their recovery. If they up-b the edge, there's a long enough pause where your stomp will get delayed on the invincible ice climber and kill the second one, then the first one. It's pretty darn satisfying. And their side-b recovery can be disrupted by most of our aerials, probably not bair, but u-air works quite well.
Hammers beat Ganon if he's above them and if he's below them @_@
This match-up blows.
10-90 IC's
It is about 0-100 on neutral stages, but thanks to counterpicking we can bring this to a solid 5-95.It's probably 0-100 IC's -_-
It just hurts me to think about it.
I'm pretty sure this is the IC's easiest match-up by a longshot.
Yeah, I'm thinking like... Rainbow Cruise, or... Jungle ****, maybe?It is about 0-100 on neutral stages, but thanks to counterpicking we can bring this to a solid 5-95.
You mean the cheap stuff from IC?Interested! But would it work online?
Yeah, the chaingrabs and the like.You mean the cheap stuff from IC?
Against heavys, I use buffered Nana-footstool'ing, which doesn't get as messed up as CG'ing does, online.Yeah, the chaingrabs and the like.
No. Just... no.I can bearly look at this, it is so sad... Gannondwarf can only compete with falcon? Sorry if I was off topic, I was just interested in changing characters, Gannon was great in the last game.