The Unclouded Mind(games)

[BebopBrawler]

Introduction

This thread is meant to be a place to try and nail down mindgames. Now wait a minute. Before you go flaming me just hear me out. I know nobody knows me yet and I have little to no posts but just hear me out okay? I have been lurking around the threads and tried to find out what people mean by mindgames. I see the term thrown around a lot and am always curious what exactly is meant and why they don't just say what they mean instead of using a blanket term like mindgames. I usually know what the poster is talking about just by the context of the post but I feel things have room to be cleaned up and defined more clearly. If a language is created around mindgames I feel like it would be less frustrating to read about them. So simply stated, I know it is ambitious of me to try and tackle this topic but I wanted to give it a try and see what people thought.

Disclaimer

That all being said I would like to say I know this is probably a touchy topic but it is one I believe can spawn an intelligent conversation (or many hopefully) if it is explored further. I know that the mental side to any game is hard to discuss or nail down so I am always looking for ways to improve the way I see it but I can only get that through constructive comments and input from people. I openly invite criticism but ask it is done in a way that will help not just make me feel like a noob (though I am one). I do NOT claim to know everything about the mental side of the game or games in general but I think I can get the conversation started through this topic. I do NOT mean this thread to be specifically about SSB but it does draw a lot of inspiration from it and I hope to give examples from it. If this belongs in another place on this forum I will be happy to move it and apologize in advance for the clutter. Finally, I apologize if this repeats another thread. If it does please let me know and I will apologize again then actively participate in the other thread (trust me). That all finally being said (sorry for the long intro) please enjoy and let me know what you think.

What are Mindgames?

Many of us know but few of us state it. Mindgames are the way we affect the mental side of the game. This mean the way we damage our opponent OUTSIDE of SSB not actually damaging the character we are playing against (though often times it can lead to that). These strategies include but are not limited to... breaking your opponent's confidence, predicting your opponent, cracking the secret to the way your opponent plays, throwing your opponent off balance by switching your game, hiding your play secrets and weaknesses (yes we all have them), provoking your opponent into emotional play style (fear, overconfidence, confusion, anger, frustration, etc.), the list goes on but I think you get the idea. It is the way you play in the game to wear down the player not the character.

Types of Mindgames

This is where some of the definitions come into play. We know that they exist but we need a better way to communicate them. Thus I have attempted to create some basic genres of mind games to break them down and have an easier time defining them. This again is not complete but it is a start.


Emotion

The emotion mind games are the ways players affect their opponent's emotions. How we frustrate them, anger them, make them fear us, make them overconfident by bluffing (these tend to overlap a bit but as I said it is something that is hard to define). By affecting the opponents emotions and our own the a match can be swayed. I cannot tell you how many time I have been beaten by people in any sort of game by getting too emotional. I am sure you have experienced something similar if you have played any sort of game competitively. This gives you an idea at the strength of emotional play. However, it is also the most difficult type of mental play to master. Controlling emotions is impossible, affecting them is not. Keep this in mind and always remember emotions of all players are affected by every action in a game.

Emotion Tactics
In Game
- Chain Grabbing
- Combo-ing (yes playing well affects emotion and seems obvious but its here)
- Spiking
- Projectile Spamming
- Camping
- Anything that can frustrate your opponent or improve your mood
- NEEDS INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY PLEASE HELP

Out of Game (as a note there are many things considered bad sportsmanship that could fall into this category but I am not going to put them in as I don't want to promote them)
- Being mentally prepared for any outcome, win or lose.
- Getting emotionally ready for matches (however you do that, calm yourself, listen to music, pump yourself up, etc)
- Go watch the videos posted recently about humbly losing, winning, playing, and how to make the most out of tournaments
- NEEDS INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY PLEASE HELP

Control

Control mind games are actually the most well defined so far. Many people actually refer to these as spacing or zoning. I really like these terms and am not trying to change them but want to share a bit more about them. As they are defined by most people they refer to physical spacing on a map, the range of their attacks, etc. This is only half the battle to understanding spacing. It is important to have control over your spacing and zoning but the reason is half mental. It is about confidence and control of the field. For those of you who don't believe me try playing a game of chess with a master, or better yet a game of 'Go'. The idea of field control and spacing has been around forever. Good players control the center of the board not just for strategy but because it tells their opponent "I own this board, it is mine, and I have total control of this game". It affects the aspects of the mental game if you have control of the field you play on because your movements are amplified. When you retreat your opponent gains confidence, when you push they can get frustrated and so on but these are amplified when you have control.

Control Tactics
In Game
- Utilizing your spacing moves
- Pretty much all edge play falls into this category
- NEEDS INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY PLEASE HELP

Out of Game
- Selecting a space to control mentally
- Knowing the limits of how much space you can control well
- Adapting/shifting the space you selected while playing
- Knowing when you are being controlled and countering it
- NEEDS INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY PLEASE HELP

Pace

Pace is something that we all understand and are probably aware of but I felt it also deserved its own section. It is partly control and partly emotion but still stands out from both. Pace as I see it is the physical and mental speed of the game being played. Are attacks happening quickly with a lot of faking, jabbing, etc? The pace is fast. Are players taking there time, striking methodically and precisely, punishing everything? The pace is probably slow. If a player can be aware of the pace of the game and their own pace they can then control it, thus giving them an edge in the match. This goes along with adaptability (later on) but being able to change the pace rapidly or keep it stagnant can be important too. It is frustrating to be unable to control the pace and it can be unsettling if your opponent keeps switching it on you so be aware of it while you play.

Pace Tactics
In Game
- Playing an avoidance game
- Playing an aggressive game
- Feign advances on opponents often
- Camping
- Pushing your opponent
- Using moves that trip/stun (bananas, Zamus, lasers, blizzard, etc.)
- NEEDS INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY PLEASE HELP

Out of Game
- Knowing your opponents comfortable paces
- Knowing your comfortable paces
- Adapting/shifting the pace while playing
- Be able to remove yourself from a set pace and set your own
- NEEDS INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY PLEASE HELP

Bluffing

Bluffing is fairly self explanatory but I will try my best to say something new. Bluffing is simply giving your opponent false impressions about the game that is being played. Some explain it as lying but it is not. It is usually just allowing your opponent to believe something that is not true or helping your opponent develop an idea that is not true. This obviously has many applications from faking an attack then punishing a dodge to faking a recovery from the edge only to take a different approach and capitalize on your opponent's misjudgment. However, when truly thought about bluffing can be translated further into the mental game. The best players do this consciously while most player do this by instince, accident or gut reaction. A player who can bluff about spacing or emotion in addition to attacking and recovering for example has a lot more power than the standard player. If you can take the knowledge of your spacing and bluff a retreat to allow your opponent to approach then you have an advantage, as you know what your opponent is doing. Bluffing can be applied on many levels and when best used is an advanced application of another mind game.

Bluffing Tactics
In Game
- Baiting
- Pivoting
- Player movements that gesture something (sorry that is vague but I mean like fast falling and then using a double jump. Fast falling usually mean 'I want to hit the ground' then double jumping makes that gesture a bluff... not a great example but that is all I could think of for now cuz I am tired)
- Approaching as normal but using a different attack (SH aerial VS. jump aerial VS. ground dash attack etc.)
- NEEDS INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY PLEASE HELP

Out of Game
- These mostly apply to the other mental tactics. Faking a certain confidence, faking a pace then switching, faking a certain emotion (poker face), etc.
- NEEDS INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY PLEASE HELP

Confidence

In all honesty this really belongs under emotion but it is one of the most important emotions to be aware of. Knowing both your own confidence level and your opponents is the first step. Many players can get a sense of this immediately. However, being able to affect both confidence level or at the very least ignore your own when you feel it is misleading you can be an important aspect of play. Some people explain this as a poker face. If you can hide your confidence then it is one thing your opponent cannot take advantage of in a match. Be careful when dealing with confidence as again, everything you do (including how you shake the other players hand before the match) can show your confidence. Be careful of overconfidence and under confidence as both can mislead you and make you perform worse. However, do not be afraid to take advantage of confidence you can't always ignore it. Some examples of controlling confidence in a match is aggression. If you play aggressively it tends to show you are confident, playing defensively can do the opposite. There are exceptions to this though, for example a defensive player could be cocky and control the center doing nothing but counter attack and punish thus coming across as confident. The best players can bluff about confidence and affect it through emotion and control of the field. (see they are all tied together no wonder it was all one term before...)

Confidence Tactics
In Game
- Using moves that leave you open
- Using controlling moves to force your opponent into something
- Using moves that make you feel better (sounds stupid but everyone has a 'go-to' move or combo they feel good doing, sorry to pick on MK but the tornado is an example of this... you know it feels good doing it because it is just such a good move)
- Control and Emotion in general are important to this, read those sections
- NEEDS INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY PLEASE HELP

Out of Game
- These are mostly connected to other mental tactics, specifically emotion and control, read those for help
- NEEDS INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY PLEASE HELP

Exploration

Learning is one of the most fundamental forms of mental play. Every player does this, some better than others, and the best utilize it to the best of their potential. Exploration is poking, prodding, and provoking your opponent to get a feel of how they play both mentally and physically. This is when a player approaches and jumps short to see what the foe does, or feigns an attack to get a reaction. Sometimes it can even go as far as losing a stock or a match to attempting to figure out a weakness (yes sacrifices sometimes need to be made to learn). To master exploration do not be afraid to lose something, put yourself in a tough situation and see what happens. This is not to say sit there and see who an opponent combos you... just be aware and try to learn during the match while taking opportunities to see a new side of your opponent. If you have control of these situations when you are learning you will not be as surprised and can end up with an advantage later in a match. This crosses over to you too. Be aware of what you are teaching your opponent about your play style. Don't give too much away and take any opportunity you can to give false information while minimizing sacrifices (sure throw out a few harmless smashes at the beginning of a match or spam a move just be aware of it an know you need to change it).

Exploration Tactics
In Game
- Using moves that leave you open
- Spamming Projectiles
- Attempting a combo knowing you might get punished for it to see how your opponent handles it
- Bluffing is huge for this
- Try not to give too much of your play style away be reserved or bluff a different play style
- NEEDS INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY PLEASE HELP

Out of Game
- Be willing to make sacrifices
- Try to learn when your opponent is exploring and learning about you
- Be aware that your opponent is trying to give false information too (keep learning during a match)
- Know when you have been learned, be willing to try something new (read adaptability)
- NEEDS INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY PLEASE HELP

Adaptability/Variety

Finally, be adaptable and change your style. Be aware of what kind of mental game you are playing and know your opponent will be reacting to it/affected by it. Your opponent is always going to try to affect you mentally too if it happens then change the situation. Surprise them. Anything to wipe the slate clean if they have you read or know your emotions. Getting frustrated? Know it is happening and change it. Calm yourself by doing something silly in your brain, taunt if you really want to. I don't care, just change your situation. (one time while playing as Kirby is a friendly match I was losing and getting frustrated on the Pirate Ship and remembered that when Kirby pops out of the water he makes an adorable noise so I jumped in, popped out and laughed a bit them came back to win the match).

Adaptability Tactics
In Game
- These are primarily outside of the game in my mind but the best examples I can think of are switching characters both in matches and between them
- Transformations (Zelda -> Sheik, Charizard -> Squirtle, Samus -> Zamus etc.)
- NEEDS INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY PLEASE HELP

Out of Game
- Be good at more than one style of play with a character
- Be good with more than one character
- Know when to switch things by paying attention to how often you repeat mistakes or succeed in an attack
- NEEDS INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY PLEASE HELP

Closing Thoughts

So in closing I hope this thread gets some people thinking, starts some controversy, and improves people's mindgamez. I hope it helps construct a language for discussing mindgames and gets people not to shy away from/belittle an important part of SSB and compitition. I do not claim to be a master of these or even be aware of most while actually playing a match I just wanted to share my thoughts and learn from others. In closing just know that as your are using these to your advantage so is your opponent. You can be affected just as easily as them so ALWAYS be aware of your mental state but be careful not to over think it. Do NOT get lost in the metagame. Play your game first and foremost but try to incorporate these as a part of it. If you lose yourself you have lost the match. I hope this helps uncloud a few minds (but have no doubt it will cloud them first).

Thanks for reading, thanks for your comments, and that you for (hopefully) not flaming me. if you don't like my ideas just let me know and we can have an awesome discussion about it rather than just a bunch of bad mouthing.

EDIT: After thinking more about it I didn't explain match speed and pace enough so I added a new section for Pace.

EDIT 2: Added some tactics to try and better explain/summarize each section a bit more. These need a lot of help so please give your input, they can always be updated. Also, in the future I am going to try and add specific examples possibly videos if people are willing to help find/provide them. So be on the look out for good examples of mental play or specific moves for characters that add to any of the tactics listed.

 

[ook]

Nice first post.




And nice post altogether
I like it

 

[BebopBrawler]

Thank you, that means a lot from someone labeled a journeyman! I appreciate the support.

 

[Ochobobo]

Excellent first post. The subject of the thread makes me feel like I'm reading some ancient martial arts secrets, lolol

 

[Hentekorino]

I vote this gets stickied/gets put in that "Most important thread" thing.
Wonderful first post dude.

 

[POKE40]

Good job on First posts. I remember my first post...it sucked ):

Mindgames are hard on online tournaments though...
Mindgames can go on forever.......
good job. I wish I could post posts like this all the time

 

[BebopBrawler]

Indeed. Mind games can go on forever (thus the repetitive language in the post) but that is why i love discussing them. And the ancient writings thing really made me feel all warm and fuzzy as I am very interested in ancient strategy games and the eastern mysticisms (Taoism specifically, I love paradoxes )

 

[FrozenFire13]

Welcome to the boards Behop. <3 Mindgames. <3 the first post. Good job.

 

[Ambrose]

Excellent post. This should be stickied. Many players need to be aware of what you have explained in your first post.

 

[Zephramrill]

It sounds vaguely familiar, but its all tied together so nicely here.

 

[BebopBrawler]

Thanks everyone for the welcomes and the support. I am glad it sound familiar. I tried to take a lot of the language from the boards I had already read here while adding my own thoughts to it and trying to draw connections. Its like a hybrid between a bunch of posts about how to become a good player, how to impress people on the boards, and stuff I have learned playing watching and enjoying games and strategy. I just hope I am not stepping on anyone's toes with the post there was a lot of great information here already...

 

[Jim Morrison]

I liked this. I didn't know some of these things yet.
Good read.

 

[BebopBrawler]

I'm glad it helped! Which parts were of most interest to you? Were ther any that were confusing or need more detail? Would specific examples be more helpful? If you have specific examples please feel free to discuss them and I can try to add them in. My hope is to soon add in some details or specific implementations of these strategies. For example, baiting fit into these well but I am not quite sure where. It could be emotion, controlling, bluffing, a combination of those. So you see where I can use some help.

 

[Jim Morrison]

I haven't really had the time succesfully let it all sink in, I was doing homework at the same time. When I'm done I'll read this with full attention. I liked how you made the different heads.
I liked the part about Control the most, because that could really affect the way I play the game now, just running around.

 

[DKKountry]

This is the kind of first post that proves a person has honestly been lurking for a while and didn't just jump in haphazardly. Welcome to the boards.

 

[BebopBrawler]

Ahh, that was my favorite part to write, draws the most from old strategy stuff. If you want to learn more about it try learning more about how to play Go. The game is all mindgames. There is nothing but thought in that game, no power pieces, every piece is worth the same amount. Its very elegant.

EDIT: Thanks for the welcome. I was trying to show I have actually been following the game for a while before posting so thanks for picking up on that!

 

[MegaMan087]

I'll echo the sentiments on great first post and I also particularly enjoyed the part on Control. I'll need to bust out my old chess board now.

 

[ThatGuy]

Great post.

 

[BebopBrawler]

Thanks for your input everyone. Just an update, I added a new section on pacing I hope it is interesting but it isn't anything particularly paradigm shifting, just stuff competitive player probably know. I just feel it should be discussed.

Also, I plan on soon adding sub sections like baiting, provoking, etc. If anyone has suggestions please add them.

 

[ndayday]

I have no idea what's gotten into these new members with excellent first posts...whatever it is, I like it. Good stuff man, just remember that every post after this should be as excellent!

I liked the part about Control by the way.

 

[Samus Aran X]

If only a (SWF)man was measured by their posts and not their post numbers.

Anyway, this helped me a lot. After losing a few times, the opponent usually taunts "MINDGAMEZ!!1!" or w/e. Given the circumstances, I predicted that "mindgames" was just a detour to the term of figuring out the foe's strategy, predicting each other's moves, etc. This post not only clarified the term "mindgames" but gave it more power whilst using the word.

Thanks for clearing it up for me.
P.S: Exploration ftw!11!!

 

[BurningCrusader777]

Very well done. You may have few posts, but as it's said... quality over quantity.

I enjoyed the read; held a lot of useful information.

 

[BebopBrawler]

For anyone interested, I edited the main post to include some basic bullet point summaries labeled as tactics for each section. input would be greatly appreciated.

Also, I am trying to put together some good specific examples of these. Whether those be videos of actual matches from tournaments, videos put together to exemplify a certain tactic, or already existing videos teaching a certain technique that could be applied to a tactic. Your help would greatly improve this post I think so I am looking forward to it.

Finally, these are all up for discussion. If you think one is unimportant and should be rolled into another argue for it. Think I missed one (I garuntee I did...) discuss it or post your own summary of it and I can add it into the main post. Thanks people!

 

[Noa.]

I know that you already said this, but you're missing baiting. It's one of the most important aspects of play. Out of the sections you posted, I think that it most fits under exploration.

Actually when I think about it, baiting is an effect of exploration. We explore how our oponnent reacts in certain situations. After we know how they react, we force them into that certain situation again by baiting them. We punish them for what we have seen as predictable. Just throwing that out there.

I have an example of baiting in one of my videos. Here is the link. I apologize for quality. At 3:03, I throw out some bacon. Because I've had many previous fights with my oponnent, I knew that he would toad it. I predicted that, and punished it with my Usmash.

That's just to show that this stuff actually does happen in matches, and is more useful then one would think.

Here is a match where control is being used. Throughout the match, Hylian(G&W) throughs out a lot of aerials that seem random. These aerials aren't ment to hit Wario, but rather to produce a zone of "don't hit me" for G&W. Hylian is controlling the air around him so that Wario doesn't approach.

Notice: I may be wrong about a lot of what I said above. Mindgames are a most difficult topic, and because they overlap I may have confused and mixed up what I said.

But that's beside the point. This post shows that you've most definetly done a lot of research and lurking. You obviously comprehended most of the readings on these boards. I congratulate you for having an amazing first post, and I hope that you become a beneficial member for us.

 

[Zolga Owns]

My god this was an amazing read...
I salute(and thank) you sir for this, I never understood what "mindgames" really was.
I will be dissecting this soon and really taking this into my game.

Welcome to SWF btw

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Amazing post for a newcomer... Welcome to Smashboards.

Emotion Tactics
In game

-Infiniting
-Planking

 

[Brave Hippo]

I can safely say Im blown away by the depth of your post. Most of my own posts contain bad jokes and toilet humor, yet you just join and contribute an exceptional thread to the Smash Community. I salute you sir. Welcome to SWF and enjoy the stay.

 

[Nixernator]

Best first post ever.
But seriously I love the part about pace and control, I always knew to watch for defensive or aggressive play styles, but it never sunk in that if you look at how the match is being played (defensively overall or aggressively overall you can kinda tell whos winning mentally) specifically getting someone to play at your pace is almost like "winning" the mindgame battle.

And for Sonic that seems important, that you have to constantly be rushing your opponent.
Thanks so much man and enjoy your stay.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I've always thought of mind games as making your opponent think your going to do a certain action whether it be attack, block, grab or whatever, then they react accordingly to what they thought you where going to do, then you punnish them.

For example; You make your opponent think your going to attack, they block, you grab.
(As you said, Bluffing)

 

[DemonFart]

^ I always thought that as well.

Thank u 4 the nice read ^_^
welcome to swf.

 

[BebopBrawler]

Thanks everyone for the warm welcomes. I appreciate it. I just hope I can keep contributing like this...

I did have one question though in regards to this post.

Amazing post for a newcomer... Welcome to Smashboards.

Emotion Tactics
In game

-Infiniting
-Planking

Do you think these only apply to emotional play? I know they also can contribute to confidence because they are so closely linked but Planking specifically seems like it could be control for example. Any thoughts? (also I thought planking was considered one of the few 'bad sportsmanship' tactics that can draw a match out and allow a less skilled player to win a match they shouldn't but that is just what I have read in a few topics. I haven't really looked into it much. This of course doesn't mean it can't still be used for mind games but still.)

 

[Sukai]

You know, I know what Mindgames are, but you expanded them far beyond my realm of comprehension. This is a great read, in depth, productive, descriptive, you may be new to SWF, but you are certainly not new to smash.

I love this thread, it begs to sticky or at least link the "Most Important thing you'll ever Read" thread. You'll clear things up for alot of people here and more to come, keep it up man, SWF needs more members like you.

I'd like to request sandbagging in your section of Bluffing, for that's it's predominant purpose. Mindgames in this context lasts over more than the time span of a match.

 

[Nintendevil]

... I like the shorter version.

Doing unusual things because they are unusual.

 

[Zolga Owns]

Bebop, would it be alright if I write an article for AiB about Mindgames?
I'd like to draw some ideas from this.

 

[Falconv1.0]

After about a year all of these look the same to me. Why do we get so many of them?

 

[St. Viers]

I like your inclusion of go, but just a quick comment--go isn't so much about control of the center as chess is. It does however, have the benefit of greater complexity than chess, in a way that ties in to smash. In smash brothers and go, players can have a hugely different mindset on what they are doing, and go through a game using that mindset, and do well...

Go example: If both players come into a game with differing plans, they can go almost the entier game without actually getting into small, gritty fights, because both are sure that they will be ahead points-wise at the end. However, both can't be right, and at the end, only one wins. However, people less skilled/understanding, see this as a boring, and amaturely played game, because it doesn't like like the standard plan they see from most other games.

Smash (melee) example: marth vs falco, the falco is simply sitting back and camping, as he beleives firmly that this will allow him to win. The marth player, rather than having the same plan, thinks that it doesn't matter how much the falco camps, because one he makes his way in, he knows he can take a stock off from simply grabbing once and comboing/techchasing. While both believe that their gameplan is the correct one, at the end, one wins. Less skilled observers (on youtube, perhaps) however don't see that they both had valid plans, and will not understand the gameplan and skill behind the players, (because it didn't look interesting/normal) will call the falco a dumb camper, and the marth a bad player for getting hit by so many lazers.

 

[Jordan249]

I demand a sticky for this. **** good post, well thought out.

 

[BebopBrawler]

Bebop, would it be alright if I write an article for AiB about Mindgames?
I'd like to draw some ideas from this.

No I don't mind if you write an article, just please link it to this thread if you use it a lot and give us a link to your article, I would love to see your thoughts. As long as credit is given I am fine with it.

Also, I think I need to read up a bit more on sandbagging. I don't think I caught the term while reading around the forums.

Finally, if this feels the same as another article please feel free to send links or let me know what I can do to improve. Thanks.

 

[Eddie G]

After about a year all of these look the same to me. Why do we get so many of them?

When do you contribute anything new or useful at all? All I ever see from you are these pathetic excuses of trollish nonsense that attempt to belittle the posts of those that you direct them to. (lol irony)

Garbage SWF member is garbage.

And as for the thread: I like your presentation on "mindgames" and how you try to help people grasp the concept of what they are. I'm not one who personally dives so deep into theoretical ideas of the game because I believe that grasping the knowledge of the game itself (characters, stages, matchups, percentage details, yada yada) and applying it effectively in-game, while also gaining experience so that the best reactions come to you instinctively is what is most important. Theory in itself can only take a player so far.

However this thread is sure to help those who still have yet to grasp the concept of "mindgames", or at the very least help them to gain a new perspective on what they may be. It was a good read for me, I enjoyed it.

 

[Dekar173]

When do you contribute anything new or useful at all? All I ever see from you are these pathetic excuses of trollish nonsense that attempt to belittle the posts of those that you direct them to.

Garbage SWF member is garbage.

0/1675 of his posts are useful. He just likes posting more to up his numbers. I don't even think he's aware that there are regional zone threads, heh.