The Unity Ruleset: Discussion

[Steam]

well it's not so much that the neutral list are all his worst stages (though FD is his worst and most of the others cept BF are bad) It's that his "counters" all have neutrals as their best stages for the most part.

also if MK's matchups were really that mellow, MK would not be an issue especially when you consider the non-MK will probably know the matchup better due to the ammount of MKs.

 

[BSP]

IDK if the ruleset is specifically "anti-MK", but it limits him.

No IDC or EDC
With the lower LGL, he has greater limitations on planking.

It's kinda funny when you think about it this way: MK's zeros are most likely assumed on his opponents' best stages against him (starter list). We all know losing game 1 is basically checkmate.

Again, turbo capability. If I brought it, would I be able to use the controller at all?

 

[ぱみゅ]

IDC is just a glitch that could be used to avoid battle, is not limiting MK, is avoiding absurdness....

 

[Bizkit047]

Again, turbo capability. If I brought it, would I be able to use the controller at all?

Currently there's no rule against turbo controllers. I can't think of many situations where a turbo controller would benefit a player.

 

[DeLux]

Mashing. REAL Fast.

TLDR: Turbo is broken

 

[John12346]

Turbo Squall Hammer can make it from red to green:

You get a really lulzy amount of height from it.

 

[stingers]

the proper term is reverse hyrule jump =p

 

[Nidtendofreak]

They said they wouldn't update again until after the next big tournament...

Well, we all know which controllers ICs are using to help their recovery!

 

[DeLux]

I can make that jump without a turbo controller pretty easily. But I can't do it only using Squall, I have to jump and double jump as well :\

 

[Bizkit047]

Well okay, mashing is the only realistic scenario so far. Kprime mashing seems pretty close to that level anyway.

 

[DeLux]

The difference being Kprime mashing takes an extraordinary amount of time to set your hands into the proper place.

If you had a turbo key, it would be as simple as hitting one button.


It's a terrible comparison and a turbo controller would be much more powerful in terms of tools for mashing.

 

[WindMajor]

Hey BRC, are votes for Norfair gonna be finished anytime soon? I'm still working on compiling that research that you heard about, and I'm not sure if I'll finish compiling all of it any time soon.

Gonna go ahead and re-quote this, because I think it got buried under these new posts.

 

[Steam]

Well okay, mashing is the only realistic scenario so far. Kprime mashing seems pretty close to that level anyway.

fast button mashing is definitely a skill though :/

and turbo controllers kinda take away that aspect of skill lol.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I saw it Twinkie.

Remember, we can always bring up a topic again back there. It isn't like "ONCE IT IS VOTED, IT IS GONE FOREVER," otherwise we would still have 5 neutrals. If the vote finishes before that and then you give me the data, I'm sure I can restart discussion.

 

[WindMajor]

Gonna take my time then.

 

[Tesh]

Has the BBRRC looked into special LGLs for stages like Rainbow Cruise or Frigate where alot of stalling might easily be done without having to grab ledges?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

No, that topic hasn't been brought up. I'm personally opposed to it since the stalling potentials on every stage are fairly equal...at least when there is a ledge.

 

[Tesh]

Fairly equal? what makes you think that?

 

[MK26]

also, time outs by stage:

Smashville: 10/834 (1.2% of matches)
PokemonStadium1: 9/232 (3.9%)
Battlefield: 6/659 (.9%)
Brinstar: 3/105 (2.9%)
Final Destination: 3/373 (.8%)
Delfino Plaza: 1
Green Greens: 1
Halberd: 1
Lylat Cruise: 1
Pictochat: 1
Rainbow Cruise: 1
Yoshi's Island: 1

Im not sure if theoretical potential is fairly equal but in practice there arent any real standouts

 

[WindMajor]

Can you do time outs by character, MK26?

 

[Juushichi]

Yun isn't the best character in SSF4: AE. he is currently the most popular though. And ****, the patch hadn't even been out for all that long.

Yeah. +1

 

[MK26]

[collapse="raw data"]Diddy Kong Toon Link
Falco Game and Watch
Falco Meta Knight
Falco ROB
Game and Watch ROB
King Dedede Diddy Kong
King Dedede ROB
King Dedede Snake
King Dedede Toon Link
King Dedede Wario
Meta Knight Falco
Meta Knight Ice Climbers
Meta Knight Meta Knight
Meta Knight Meta Knight
Meta Knight ROB
Meta Knight Snake
Meta Knight Snake
Meta Knight Snake
Meta Knight Sonic
Meta Knight Sonic
Meta Knight Wario
Meta Knight Wario
Olimar Snake
Peach Ness
Peach Snake
ROB Pokemon Trainer
Sheik ROB
Snake Toon Link
Sonic Falco
Sonic Meta Knight
Sonic Meta Knight
Sonic Meta Knight
Sonic Olimar
Sonic Pit
Toon Link King Dedede
Wario ROB
Wario Zero Suit Samus
Zero Suit Samus Meta Knight[/collapse]mk: 19 (2 dittos, so 17 matches total)
sonic: 8
snake: 7
rob: 7
d3: 6
falco: 5
wario: 5
toon link: 4
diddy: 2
game and watch: 2
olimar: 2
peach: 2
zss: 2
ice climbers: 1
sheik: 1
ness: 1
pit: 1
pt: 1

===

chibosempai: 5

===

also, i just noticed the match that cheese won against broccoli_king due to a mid-match pause

 

[Juushichi]

Chibo's also includes him getting timed out by Fizzle twice. Aw yeeeeeeah.

 

[Tesh]

is that who won by time out or who was involved in a time out?

 

[Reizilla]

Are you listing just the winning character?

 

[MK26]

sorry, i accidentally listed the collapse box in order of p1 first, not winner first

that error has been corrected

17 mlg matches involving an mk went to time
2 were mk dittos
10 were mk beating a different character
5 were mk losing to a different character

19 mk appearances in timeout matches in total

===

of five mk-sonic matches that went to time, sonic had a record of 3-2
zss is 1-0 vs mk
falco is 1-1
rob & ics both 0-1
wario 0-2
snake 0-3

 

[-DR3W-]

Congratulations, one of your new fancy neutrals is now one of my all-time bans because it is so un-neutral.

**** Castle Seige.

 

[WindMajor]

Care to elaborate?

 

[Player-1]

What are you talking about Twinkie? That post was one of the best and most well thought out post I've read, I don't even see how you can argue with that.

 

[Bizkit047]

Congratulations, one of your new fancy neutrals is now one of my all-time bans because it is so un-neutral.

**** Castle Seige.

Yes, I agree, that stage is generally non-neutral. Fortunately it's fine on the Starter Stage list though, huh.

 

[Tesh]

and so it begins

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Congratulations, one of your new fancy neutrals is now one of my all-time bans because it is so un-neutral.

**** Castle Seige.

Depending on your definition of neutral, you may be dead wrong or using the wrong word.

So... Uh... Got some data on how much Castle Siege ****s with matchups?

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

well i for one can say it takes all my good MUs and makes every single one of them much much harder to deal with. hell even timing some1 out isn't happening on this stage.

of course i could say the same things about YI and PKS1, but at least those stages are managable, castle siege though is imo pit's worst stage, followed by the above 2.

although tbh, that's just a natural disadvantage of my character you could say, but it's kind of gay that i have to waste all of my strikes on my literally TOP 3 WORST STAGES EVER for my character in what is supposed to be a starter list of neutrality. (side note, the reason they are bad stages for pit is he can't fly under them, which takes away his greatest tool of recovering against MK. other character's are somewhat managable, but MK dominance kinda makes having castle siege too gay for me)

in the end, ill still play on this list and just do what i always do, let them strike castle siege and yoshi's and pks1 for me since at least 2 of those are always stricken by my opponent.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Then you should support flossing, which doesn't favour any characters... >_>

 

[NickRiddle]

Then you should support flossing, which doesn't favour any characters... >_>

BUT SINCE METAKNIGHT HAS MORE GOOD STAGES THAN EVERYBODY ELSE IT OBVIOUSLY SUPPORTS HIM AS HE DOESN'T MIND STARTER OR CP STAGES!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!


And that was my imitation of stupid people who would oppose the idea for stupid reasons.

Thank you.


Make sure you FLoSS every night~

 

[TRA]

Just realized, item number 8 under Set Procedure should be edited.

8. The Team that lost the previous match announces the stage for the next match from either the Starter or the Counterpick Stage List. Any Stage named as a "Stage Ban" by the either Team may not be selected. No Stage may be used by a Team that has already won

If it were to read "the other" it would imply that a person/team can ban a stage, and then take their opponent to the stage they themselves banned, later in the set.

If it were to read "either" it makes it clear that a player/team may not take an opponent to any banned stage, throughout the set.

I'm normally not a grammar Nazi, but I think it's unclear and needs to be clarified.

Time
Runs
Away

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

TRA, can you PM AlphaZealot with that problem? It would be easier to get it fixed that way than me making a thread back there to remove a single word.

 

[TRA]

Sounds good. Which was it supposed to be, btw?

Time
Runs
Away

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Its just supposed to say "By either team"

"The" just needs to be removed. That's it.

 

[MK26]

So I can't pick a stage that I banned?

Say the stage I ban is the worst for my main but not so bad for my secondary. My main is getting shut down by my opponent, so I cp the stage I banned, and switch to my secondary, because I feel that has become my best option.

I can't do that now?